457 Visa, WA, school fees

[Toitjie]

True, but there are 4 years that they might feel they can take some more in fees as PR people get lots of benefits

as soon as you are a citizen...school fees become "normal" again

just playing devils advocate....

[Enrica]

At the end of the day, when you come on PR , you sit and wait and wait for that visa. No guarantee of a job, and you have paid a fortune for your visa, you have already contributed before you even landed

The 457 route is a quick way of getting into Australia, and hopefully after 2 years you can get your PR . When the 457 visa holder has landed , he has not paid 1 cent in Tax so , honestly don't understand why the big gripe . In South Africa you paid for your kids school fees, its the same here. As has been said , you need to negotiate your package so that it will cover those costs .First world education costs money . I am sorry for those that are here already , as this is an additional, un budgeted expense. For those still to come , you have been warned.

[Mikeleigh]

.....so what are the benefits of a PR holder and which of these benefits could be at risk for a quirky political interception ?Anyone ?

[Toitjie]

.....so what are the benefits of a PR holder and which of these benefits could be at risk for a quirky political interception ?Anyone ?

Exactly what I was wondering Mike...at the moment medicare and schools are free because we have PR. But that can change....you never know

PR also get rent-assist (I dont know if thats immediately or after some time); centrelink, and childcare rebates. There might be more...cant remember them all....

And I still feel having PR is a huge blessing and privilege because when I land, my children can go to school for free and get medical free, while I have not contributed one cent in taxes, so I dont buy that argument that 457 should pay because they have not paid taxes. They will be required to pay for schooling while paying their taxes where I will not be. I can be unemployed for 6 months and still the kids have free school.

[Mikej]

.....so what are the benefits of a PR holder and which of these benefits could be at risk for a quirky political interception ?Anyone ?

As far as I know you get all the benefits any Aussie gets with 2 exceptions, you can't vote and you don't do jury duty. I might be wrong and there could be other limitations such as working in the defence force or the AFP.

Sadly you probably can't be prime minister either.

[AndreaL]

Actually Toitjie, I doubt that there would ever be attempts to recover schooling costs or the like from people with p.r. but not citizenship. Think of all the New Zealanders over here (although they have limited access to benefits too) and also think about the hundreds of thousands of British people in Australia who have p.r. but not citizenship.

I have many British friends and not a whole heap bother with citizenship unless there is a reason such as a job etc.(Remember the whole $10 pom thing, my own uncle came over in the 50's this way, I don't think he ever went for citizenship but his kids would have probably )

You'll find that it is mostly migrants from India, Africa, Asia etc that are keen to get citizenship as soon as they can. That said, I did read rumblings a few months ago about greater powers for the immigration minister to deport non- citizens convicted of serious crimes, so perhaps there will come a time when more people do.

[AndreaL]

Actually Toitjie, I doubt that there would ever be attempts to recover schooling costs or the like from people with p.r. but not citizenship. Think of all the New Zealanders over here (although they have limited access to benefits too) and also think about the hundreds of thousands of British people in Australia who have p.r. but not citizenship.

I have many British friends and not a whole heap bother with citizenship unless there is a reason such as a job etc.(Remember the whole $10 pom thing, my own uncle came over in the 50's this way, I don't think he ever went for citizenship but his kids would have probably )

You'll find that it is mostly migrants from India, Africa, Asia etc that are keen to get citizenship as soon as they can. That said, I did read rumblings a few months ago about greater powers for the immigration minister to deport non- citizens convicted of serious crimes, so perhaps there will come a time when more people do.

I just checked and around 15% of the population are not citizens, so tha is about 3 and a half million people.

[Ajay]

Hot topic! I think I'm able to look at this from a view different angles, so let me weigh in too.

I came over on a 457 in 2005 with full understanding that it wasn't a permanent visa, but also knew that there were pathways to PR via my employer after a specific period. We treated it as a migration - sold everything with no intention of returning. I got LAFHA for 2 years until I applied for PR (my personal mantra is that if they write loose law that's open to interpretation, then they need to learn to write better law.....something that I still follow in my own migration practice). Although I lost LAFHA, I was able to access free schooling for the kids (NSW and ACT have charged school fees to temp visa holders for quite some time now). 2 years after that, we got citizenship and started voting. From a personal journey point of view, I wouldn't (and couldn't) have done it any way.

The 457 is a temp visa, of course, and is intended to help employers fill positions where local resources are scarce while they have time to train up their citizen/resident staff. It is a highly concessional visa for the holder - there is very little required in the way of evidence compared to the PR lot and the costs (used) to be much less than they are now, and they are approved quickly. In return for those concessions, there are some drawbacks - it isn't permanent, there's no access to benefits and there are some employment restrictions (the latter makes sense given the purpose of the visa). I had no problem paying the same taxes and not receiving benefits because I was aware that I wasn't able to apply for anything else and wouldn't be able to live here otherwise. I was happy to bide my time until I could apply for PR via the employer program (less concessional, but still processed much faster than GSM). It's just the way things work - you can concessions on one thing, but you pay on another.

Most companies here are happy to use 457 workers when they are the best person for the job, despite the call from Labour about local jobs for local people. I don't know about you, but if I need brain surgery, I want the BEST surgeon digging around in my grey matter, not the BEST LOCALLY AVAILABLE surgeon! Companies tend to follow this view - and that's one of the reasons the upcoming labour market testing (which is 4 months not 6 as said here, and only starts in November) is so unpopular. Companies don't want to be dictated to about who they can employ when it's their bottom line at risk. We'll have to wait and see what happens post election and whether the opposition will dismantle some of the new changes.

What I don't think will change is the cost - Australia has a massive deficit that it needs to recover, and visa costs is a logical place to look to. People that are determined to get here will generally (not always) find a way to make it happen, so it's an easy, soft target to collect money from. If anyone is being affected by that change, it's my profession as fewer people and companies engage a professional to manage their application.

I learned long ago to live my life with gratitude - I'm genuinely grateful for the opportunities that have come my way, and I don't begrudge the 'costs' of those opportunities - it just takes too much energy. Whinging about school fees, or Medicare, or Rent-Assist, or whatever, is just going to make you miserable and angry, when you should be waking up every morning and grinning from ear to ear that you slept soundly with no fears for your safety and knowing that you'll be hopping on a bus or train shortly to commute to the office, where you'll be paid a fair wage for a days work. That might sound simplistic, but it works for me and I urge you to try it.

Good luck everyone

Ajay

[Mikej]

A bit off topic but not too much.

Every foreign trained individual landing in Australia is a free gift to the government and Australian tax payers. A doctor for example costs the government about $500K to educate so every doctor getting off a plane is a free $500K gift. This applies to all skills it is just the amount that varies.

How this relates to 457s and WA school fees is a bit too much for my brain at the moment I need a coffee.

[HansieSlimBergWilKlim]

I sympathise with families on 457 visas who thought they’d arrived in the land of milk and honey. WA Premier Colin Barnett said in a radio interview this morning that each school student in the public system costs the state about $15,000 per year. In the last few years thousands of new arrivals have meant that a total of 8600 places at schools had to be found for kids on 457 visas. That’s the equivalent of roughly 19 new primary schools! 457 visa holders can argue that they pay tax just like everybody else but the income tax they pay goes into Federal coffers, not state.

I suppose the new fee structure will push state students to enrol in private schools but unfortunately the vacancies in the private schools are simply not there. There are already long waiting lists. As yet the government has not decided how the fees will be introduced. They are hopeful that the companies who are arranging the 457 visas will contribute towards to the education costs.

Australians are starting to see 457 visa holders as a burden on the system. The cost of housing is being pushed up, they can’t get their kids into their choice of school, waiting times at hospitals are blowing out and traffic jams are everywhere.

It’s not the first time an economic downturn has hit the state. A boom is always followed by a downturn but things will pick up again so don’t be too disheartened.

[AndreaL]

I don't see how 457 holders can be a burden to the system, they are not able to access medicare etc so they are certainly not a burden there....perhaps toward the education system, but one could argue that humanitarian refugees re-settled in Australia carry the same or more burden?

Most 457 holders bring money into the country, they spend that money here, it stimulates the economy, there is the revenue received through their taxes and they cost little for the government. If you need hospital ypu pay.

Australia gets a fully skilled Dr etc that they have not had to train at great expense......

That said, I think Ajay has hit the nail on the head, we knew what we were in for, it was hard, but we knew we would get there in the end and we did.

The 457 is an easy political tool.....along with " boat people" but there is no way the government will stop the use of the 457, they now they need it...............isn't one of the major political party's speech writer over here on a 457?

Personally I just get sick of people who think they are somehow better because they came on a p.r. rather than a 457 visa...........if unemployment rises significantly, my personal feel is that p.r. visa's will be the ones cut back on, not 457 visa's as they are for the immediate skills shortages....what that temp visa holder does whilst here to secure permanancy is then up to them.