South African Universities loosing it

[zamunda]

Sadly Wits and some of the other well respected South African Universities are falling in standard and many countries are now finding it difficult to accept their education levels as it once was I was told.

Where will this downward spin stop?

I thank God that we got a way out. But feel very sad for those we are leaving behind.

[chzaau]

Yup, as I say you can send your children to the best private school money can buy, but what shall that help them when 1 the colour of there skin is incorrect to be accepted in the university and 2 the qualifications are being questioned as sub standard.

[21yearsoutofrsa]

I know some Australian Universities are offering degrees courses in South Africa (and presumably other offshore locations) but they are very expensive, but that's were I see RSA higher education going in the future.

At the end of the day it's an extension of the private school.

Edited August 4, 2013 by 17yearsoutofrsa

[Erik]

It's been happening since late 2000's. Many of the lecturers I know quit and/or went into other areas, because they just couldn't reconcile with the falling standards. One of my best first year lecturers, just upped and quit, she said she couldn't just put people through even though they were failing dismally. And she was one of the ones that would spend hours and hours of extra time to help people who were struggling. I mean, honestly, if she couldn't get them though, nobody was going to...

Edited August 4, 2013 by Erik

[Toitjie]

If I understood previous threads correctly, nursing diplomas from SA is not accepted in Oz and an additional course has to be done?

Then someone mentioned that whole blocks of "difficult" work are cut out of the medical degree just to get the students to pass. Sooner or later South Africa will have a huge crisis with medical professionals giving totally inadequate medical attention. And I'm assuming this is not only confined to the medical profession but across all "difficult" qualifications...

[OubaasDik]

If I understood previous threads correctly, nursing diplomas from SA is not accepted in Oz and an additional course has to be done?

Then someone mentioned that whole blocks of "difficult" work are cut out of the medical degree just to get the students to pass. Sooner or later South Africa will have a huge crisis with medical professionals giving totally inadequate medical attention. And I'm assuming this is not only confined to the medical profession but across all "difficult" qualifications...

Sad to think medical degrees from the country that did the first heart transplant may no longer be accepted.

[Mac777]

Business practices, taxes, laws, etc all differ across the world but seriously...a heart is a heart and a kidney is a kidney, no matter where you go in the world. Surely, surely the education regarding medicine should at least be on the same theoretical platforms no matter where you are? I can understand technology being better in certain areas and money buying better equipment but really.

On a more commercial side, my wife is a psychometrist and recently tested a host of UJ graduates in finance and the results were dismal. People getting degrees that are barely literate. the vast majority of them were at the cognitive processing level of a high school student at best. And yet they are getting degrees...I mean really????

Turns out that, and this is based on inside info, that universities are getting rebates and grants for passing students and pushing "qualified" people into the job market.

The sad thing is how far reaching these actions' consequences will lead. Pushing a person into the job market that can't cope with the theory is going to do even worse in the real world. General productivity will drop with every "unqualified" entrant into the job market. Pushing people through university will cost this country millions in the end.

When will they learn???

[Donovan83]

*losing

[rozellem]

My best friend is a doctor. When she specialised, some of her classmates were told which areas to study, what their questions would be and even had the professors write their long questions for them, it just had to be memorised and regurgitated.

Its like legalised spotting. Imagine being in the hands of a doc who did not cover the bit of the body you need help with!!!

[chzaau]

They call these types of doctors sangomas or traditional healers. Throw the bones, while the sangoma ask you if you feel lucky punk.

[miraclebabycaw]

I have a friend who is a lecturer at UJ. They basically are not allowed to fail the students although they are not "told" this in as many words. She teaches subjects in the biological sciences fields and says the standards are shocking. 30% to pass, and if she sets a test and more than x amount fail she has to reset an easier test, and she gets called in and admonished because the test was obviously too difficult for the students and it's her fault. UCT is I think still the only University in SA that falls within the top 100 in the world. Sadly though this is not a new trend and they have not been recognizing degrees from SA universities for a good number of years now.

[McCabes]

what's even more concerning for me is the shall-not-ever-be-officially-mentioned quota system.

A friend of mine's little sister is studying Psychology. She came second in her class for 4th year, and applied to do the masters degree at all the big universities in the country.

She did not get in.

They took the guy who came first, then moved down to the person who came 15th in the final exams, and took the next 15 from that point on.

And yes, this fits a racial profiling selection process.

She now has no option except to do a thesis.

Another friend of mine's cousin got 7 As at a really good, well-known school. She was not accepted into University.

Hearing more and more stories like this.

One of my old teachers got fired because she refused to blindly pass students (high school) who could not read, write or count even at a basic level. Her daughter was lecturing at Varsity College and had the same experience - she refused to pass the students who were failing, and was forced to resign.

Not meaning to throw a spanner in the works but even the private schools here are not producing what would have been termed university-quality students let's say 20 years ago anymore. Look at the result of the international literacy and numeracy assessments (PISA) - even the kids from private schools are not ranking in the higher levels. As far as I remember, very few are even hitting the global average.

It's just plain scary.

[Toitjie]

My mom was a lecturer for Master students in Research and was told in no uncertain terms that should she fail such a high number of students again (research is not an easy subject) they will not renew her contract.

I dont want to bring religion into this discussion, but this happened at Potch university who claims in the title that its christian education. The same university shunned her and quickly covered up when she realised that some students committed vast amounts of plagiarism from the internet. One student even used an old thesis of someone else and just changed it to his name and details. They told her nothing is going to happen to these students, so she laid a complaint.

Nothing came of it...the quota system brings in big money and they will sacrifice anyone and anything to get their greedy little paws on that money. In the end, she had to resign or go mad.

[Mac777]

It's no joke but this is roughly where we have gone...

Where is the pride?

Where is the satisfaction in achievement?

Where is the sense of responsibility?

It's been replaced by a system of zero accountability where your failures are faults to be placed on the shoulders of everyone but yourself. You can fail at anything and blame someone else and it is deemed justified.

We are no longer the masters of our own destinies, but masters of excuses and mud slinging.

I miss the days where if you didn't do your homework you were given a "snot klap". At least then people actually knew that there were consequences for not obeying the rules.

Accomplishments are no longer earned but expected. No one works for their futures anymore.

It's a very sad state of affairs

[OubaasDik]

Mnay years ago, in SA there were no (or very few ) universities that catered to the Afrikaner.

When the Afrikaner (Nats, specifically) came into power in the the late 40's there were 2 directions they could take on education and traininf - either corrupt the English universities to take Afrikaners and NEVER fail them or build their own universities of equivalent standard.

Seems they chose the second path and we ended up with such universities as Tuks, Pukke, UPE, OVS, RAU - all of which had some or other redeeming feature (and before the Stellenbosch guys scream, I THINK Stellenbosch was older than that era).

In engineering, for instance - Tuks did not have to stand back for any English university .....

The ANC took the other route.

[Riekie]

We used to be the pick of the crop.. Very sad that it is no longer the case and I can not see anytime soon getting back up there...

[Heymanse]

I have a friend who is a lecturer at UJ. They basically are not allowed to fail the students although they are not "told" this in as many words. She teaches subjects in the biological sciences fields and says the standards are shocking. 30% to pass, and if she sets a test and more than x amount fail she has to reset an easier test, and she gets called in and admonished because the test was obviously too difficult for the students and it's her fault. UCT is I think still the only University in SA that falls within the top 100 in the world. Sadly though this is not a new trend and they have not been recognizing degrees from SA universities for a good number of years now.

Sadly, not even UCT is on the list of top 100 Uni's:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_Ranking_of_World_Universities

[Lovestory]

My being involved in doing some work at a university is a huge part of our motivation for leaving. I will not put my children through that.

[springmielie]

a Little bit of positive news According to QS World University Ranking 2012/13 we here in RSA have 3 universities on the top 700 list. (http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings)

drum roll......

No 154 - UCT

No 363 - Wits

and coming in at

401-450 Stellenbosch

and the you read this...Something in the newspapers yesterday - this is why by the time kids reach university level, there's hardly any hope

"JOHANNESBURG. – ’n Ouer van ’n

sestienjarige seun aan die Hoërskool Linden, Johannesburg, is woedend
omdat haar seun nie kop of stert kan uitmaak van dié skool se Afrikaanse
lewensoriëntering-handboek vir gr. 10 nie.

“My kind het vir my
gesê hy verstaan nie die handboek nie. Ek het toe self gekyk. Ek was
stomgeslaan. Dit was duidelik dat Google Translate gebruik is om die
boek te vertaal,” het die ouer, wat anoniem wil bly om haar kind te
beskerm, gesê.

“My kind en sy vriende lag in die klas vir die simpel vertaling.”

Nog ’n ouer wat deur die handboek geblaai het, het gesê sy sidder om te dink dat ouers oor die gehalte van handboeke moet kla.

In
die handboek, wat in Beeld, susterskoerant van Die Burger, se besit is,
word daaglikse fisieke aktiwiteite beskryf as “landbou-aktiwiteite”
waarvoor ’n behoorlike “warm-up” nodig is.

’n Voorbeeld is: “Opwarm, moet u deelneem In sommige lae-intensiteit aërobiese aktiwiteit, flinkstap Soos.”

In die hoofstuk oor verhoudings word die woord “bevrugting” verwar met “bemes”.

Op byna elke bladsy is daar spel- en taalfoute. Voorbeelde is “South Afrika”, “tiepes” en “Britania”.

Ouers het R156 vir die handboek betaal.

Die uitgewers is DC Creations.

Debbie Jutzen van die uitgewery het gesê hulle het die Engelse boek “eksklusief” vir die Hoërskool Linden vertaal.

“Ons eerste taal is Engels. Die boek is deur ’n Afrikaanse onderwyser vertaal wat ons gedink het bekwaam is.”

Sy het ontken dat die boek met Google se vertaalfunksie vertaal is.

Volgens
Jutzen is probleme met die vertaling in April deur ’n ouer onder hul
aandag gebring. Die boek is toe binne ’n week weer vertaal, gedruk en op
29 April by die skool afgelewer.

Steven Roodtman, adjunkhoof van die skool, het erken dat daar probleme met die handboeke was.

“Ons het nou die nuwe weergawe uitgedeel en die kinders se akademie het nie daaronder gely nie,” het hy gesê.

Die ma beweer egter dat haar seun en sy vriende steeds nie nuwe handboeke ontvang het nie.

Adv. Dana du Plessis, voorsitter van die skool se beheerliggaam, het gesê as ’n kind oorgesien is, sal die skool dit regstel."

Edited August 7, 2013 by springmielie

[Mac777]

Wow. I didn't know it was quite as bad as that.

If that's truly where we're ranked then you can hardly blame the rest of the world for not wanting to recognise our qualifications. Starting to wonder whether I should even bother finishing my degrees here in SA at all...

[KimAnn]

Hi Every One

What about UNISA degrees. Are they recognized in Australia.

[Toitjie]

After UNISA's expose this weekend on Carte Blanche I dont think their qualification will be accepted for very long, if they are now

[shannonc4]

It's hard to believe but UNISA has become one of the few Universities to actually be recognised world wide. This to me is absolutely ridiculous but I suppose when you have centres in almost every country it helps.

UKZN used to be one of the best but has slowly spiralled into a downward spin. Their new "policy" is now firmly in place stating that no new students, as of 2014, may obtain a degree through their institute without completing a course in Zulu. How the hell is Zulu going to help you in the real world? I have been out of school for nearly a decade and have done just fine without it.

News 24 also recently released an article (http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Longer-school-day-to-teach-3rd-language-20130821) stating that all schools could possibly be extending their teaching time by and hour a day to include the teaching of another African language. Our children are barely literate but they believe this will help?

​Interesting country we live in.

[qwerty]

I have a UNISA degree and received an email from a friend 2 years ago who works in Taiwan. They were looking for someone to teach English over there. She stated in her email that you must have a degree, but that a degree from UNISA will not be considered. Needless to say, I just completed my honours degree through the University of Stellenbosch!

Edited August 28, 2013 by qwerty

[shannonc4]

I have a UNISA degree and received an email from a friend 2 years ago who works in Taiwan. They were looking for someone to teach English over there. She stated in her email that you must have a degree, but that a degree from UNISA will not be considered. Needless to say, I just completed my honours degree through the University of Stellenbosch!

Hmmm That's strange. I have a UNISA degree and was offered a English teaching job in a private school in Korea. They normally recruit people through UNISA.