back from sa

[Emille]

i have just returned from my trip to south africa and these are my observations:

life goes on as usual in sa - i have found this in the past - when you sit here in aus you think is impossible 'to live' in south africa, that things really go backwards from worse to worse and that everybody wants to emigrate

truth is people go on with their lifes and especially in cape town and bloem which i visited, life goes on as in the past and people actually enjoy living there

i dont think apart from the usual crime, corruption and unsafety of the place, theres much difference from when i visited 2 years ago

i personally felt very paranoid and unsafe - but its more to do with me being used to a safe and 'crime free' australia than necessarily the situation in south africa

cape town is as beautiful as ever - but i still prefer the civilised society of australia above 'beauty'

people drive like maniacs and you realise how little weight is given to 'life'

corruption has reached tremendous levels (http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2013-03-13-auditor-general-reports-some-light-at-the-end-of-dark-depressing-tunnel/#.UU59lr9r1S8)

people are very friendly

the anc will rule forever - i know when you live there you need to do as much as you can but i really wondered what the whole point is with opposing the anc (da etc)

the rape and murder rate is tremendous - and this includes all people - i.e. pistorius, recent murder in griekwastad (son allegedly raped his sister and murdered his parents and sister - this is a white teenage boy - http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/details-of-griekwastad-murders-heard-1.1369205#.UU5ycL9r1S8), weird murder 'trend' in cape town where body parts get dismantled http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/murdered-girl-s-last-words-1.1459054#.UU58Mr9r1S8)

south africa has become so expensive - cheaper than aus obviously (well that includes 95% of the worlds countries) - e.g. R100 is the same now as 'R20' was when I lived there 4 years ago

to go up table mountain R500 for 2 adults and 1 chilld / to have a coffee in a coffee shop is R15-20 / a main course is anything from R80-R200 / to go into cape point for a family of 4 is R300 / a shirt in woolworths R350 - i dont know how people afford these things on rand salary (unless salaries increased a lot which i dont know)

family will enjoy your visit and go out of their way when you are there but really they have moved on

(rich) whites in cape town still living in their bubble - while less than 20 km from them you find some of the poorest people on earth - an anomaly which i find increasingly disturbing

i am glad we came back alive and well without incidents

i am so pleased and fortunate to live in australia

ps on a side issue, we went with singapore airlines which was tremendous - the best service i have ever experienced - no wonder their economy class has been voted best in the world

Edited March 24, 2013 by Emille

[AndreaL]

I AM that trolley person, I even get to clean the bin afterwards......lol

What those of you in RSA need to understand is that via this forum we meet people who wish to leave RSA, sometimes they have been victims of horrendous crimes, or their immediate families have. We here tend to get a greater balance of bad news stories than good news.

When considering going back for a holiday, it is not only our own safety we have to consider ( and we understand the precautions you have to take). We have to weigh up the risk to our children who don't know how to live that way. We have to find out if life insurance would pay out if the unthinkable happened whilst over there.

I still think that many of us have changed the way we view the world and the people in it and the divide between the haves and the have nots must be more noticeable now.

Australians may not be religious ( something I noticed at the Easter bonnet parade at my childs school yesterday) but charity is something that most practice regularly and injustice and inequality are questioned.

Not trying to get into an argument with anyone, I'm just trying to point out that you most likely will start to question the status quo and change the way you view things after you have been in Australia for some time.

[JuliaClaire]

If anyone wants to keep track of what's going on in KZN crime wise (perhaps you are planning a trip back, or have family living here, or just fancy getting the heads up on what's really going on) I would suggest taking a look at "Brad Nathanson Investigations" Facebook page.

I rely on this to keep abreast of crime etc in our area.

Otherwise, one tends not to hear anything and is in danger of continuing on blindly in one's "bubble"!

Edited March 29, 2013 by JuliaClaire

[Springjock]

Kanniewagnie, i think you are oversimplifying things. Yes, there are certain things you can and places to avoid in gauteng, but you are safe absolutely nowhere. Just going out to a restaurant places you at risk. You also have to sleep at night and this does not come easily for anyone with any sense of reality. When you have lived in a normal, civilianised society like Oz for a few years, the thought of spending a single day in SA is terrifying!

[Emille]

d

Kanniewagnie, i think you are oversimplifying things. Yes, there are certain things you can and places to avoid in gauteng, but you are safe absolutely nowhere. Just going out to a restaurant places you at risk. You also have to sleep at night and this does not come easily for anyone with any sense of reality. When you have lived in a normal, civilianised society like Oz for a few years, the thought of spending a single day in SA is terrifying!

during my visit, the 'sleeping' part was what i hated most, too scared i would wake up with a gun in my face

[Kanniewagnie]

I cannot wait to experience "normal". This world / reality is the only one known to me. I can understand your fear.

[Sunnyskies]

When we have visited I haven't walked in abject terror. It is the SA I knew and so I just follow the same safeguards that I did when we lived there, and before landing I ensure that I talk to friends and family to ensure that I am aware of any new "tricks" that have evolved since I was last there. Yes, living a "normal" life is different to a "normal" life in Australia, but then every country/city has its own version of normal and it is encumbent on us as we move over the globe to ensure that we understand the reality of the places we stay in in order to stay safe - there have been places we have visited over the years that I felt way more insecure in than SA and where once we returned to SA (while we still lived there) we have said thank heavens we are back!

Granted, I would say that in SA you live with a heightened sense of awareness as to what is going on around you in contrast to how you live in Australia where you are less likely to be a target for random acts of crime and violence.

[Emille]

my fear was that it would be so ironic that i left south africa so that my family could be save - and then visit on a holiday and we get raped or murdered - irony i think is a bit of an understatement

[RichtB]

Returned from South Africa last weekend having spent 3 weeks there to attend to family matters. How did I experience South Africa and Jhb in particular?

1. The people are very agressive drivers

2. The air and surroundings are "dirty"

3. I was familiar with the place, lived there for more than 50 years, yet it felt like there was a distance between me, the surroundings and to certain extent the people.

I was really looking forward to come back! Will I go back for a visit soon? I don't think so, this was perhaps the last one.

[lifeasanaussie]

We are thinking of going back for a visit next April/May for about 3 weeks, time to catch up with family and see how this kids have grown (Hardest thing of being this far away is watching the young ones grow from photo's alone).

Anyway, thought I'll start looking at flights, hire car's etc. I could not contain my excitment, contacted friends and said "I'm coming to visit!". I was ecstatic!

About 2 days later, it hit me, Im frightned at the thought of going back even for 3 weeks, I know Pretoria street's in and out, I've lived there and learnt how to stay safe in my "bubble" for many years, but I've become comfortable...

I quite enjoy going to bed at night not feeling like I need to keep some form of weapon next to my bed, plan where I will run to first should someone get it.

Then I thought, I've got the whole Australia at my hands, places I havent seen, where I will still feel safe. Maybe that's my bubble, but its a pretty great bubble.

Currently deciding whether I will take the trip back or do a Cruise! At the moment the Cruise is leading in points, but havent made my mind up yet!

[AndreaL]

I know, we are in the same boat ( what a pun!) why go somewhere we've been and have to didvide our time between Jo'burg and Cape Town so each set of parents gets the same deal..................how do I teach my children that they can't walk out the door and leave it wide open etc................and thinking about all the places I still have to visit here or in Asia......................

[Joeemm]

AndreaL, we're in exactly the same spot! I cannot get past having to teach my son to live like he's in prison and mistrust everyone except Mom and Dad, explain why he won't be able to ride his cousin's bike in the street and as for locking doors! sheez

I, like so many of the forumites struggle with the issue of wanting to see family, but not wanting to expose my son to a really unpleasant (and lets face it potentially very dangerous) environment.

But, then most people go across, do the duty visit and then that's that.

[Mac777]

Personally I would rather try get the family over to Aus for a visit rather than coming back here for a visit.

Ultimately, it's a gamble. There is crime everywhere and the world. There is unfortunately just a lot more here and it comes down to the risk. Frankly, you can visit SA often and provided you're in the right areas you will leave unscathed you would have had a great time. Going on holiday in the Berg is probably no more dangerous than riding a mountain bike down a hill. Taking a walk in Hillbrow in the night on your own, well that's borderline psychotic. I have lived in Alberton all my life and I can tell you one thing... the big houses in Sandton with their 12ft walls and cctv surveillance have probably seen more violent crime than our suburbs have.

There are many suburbs in South Africa in which you probably could leave windows open but at the end of the day, where there is more crime, there is more risk and the less careful you are, the more exposed you are. The fact that we have to think that way at all is in my opinion more of a push for me than anything else.

The odds of something bad happening are higher here in SA, that's it. Pure stats, no opinions and no messing around. In Aus you might have a 1 in 1000 chance of being affected by crime, here it might be 1 in 20. (Not accurate I'm sure, just trying to illustrate the contrast). So the question is what is the risk? High? Low? Area dependent? No one actually knows and no one ever will. You can fly to SA, spend two months on holiday and live like you lived in Aus, windows open, doors unlocked, and nothing will happen to you but the guy on the plane that sat next to you might not even make it to the hotel...

So what do you do? Gamble or no gamble?

[Riekie]

I guess it depends on your initial reason for leaving. If it was education/jobs/economy, then yes, why not go back and visit as often as you like. If it is crime/scared for your life/victim of crime, then for the life of me I can not figure out why you'd go back. But that's just me - I've never been back since leaving, and I'm not going back for ANY reason. Hubby went back earlier this year for a charity bike race and to help build a school, but he was a guest of SA Tourism and under their protection. He stayed longer and visited his parents to help out with a few family matters and during that time, I was worried all the time - I literally could not sleep! He came back safe & well and without any incident, but said he experienced that sense of danger all the time. At the end of the day, it's everyone's choice - I just don't "get" that.