Perth

[Emille]

Hi AndreaL

I agree with you I also like the unpretentious nature of the Australian people, and I love their common sense, I like their intelligence and I like their relaxed nature. I thought a lot about that and have realised a big part of this is due to their 'lack of baggage' (like our South Africans). They pretty much grow up 'free' - free from the fear of crime, free from the guilt of the past, free from self-conciousness around the colour of their skin. I can understand why they call this country the 'lucky country'.

Talking about 'favourite places' in Australia - some of my favourite things: apart from my obvious love of Sydney (with the Harbour bridge oozing its '1930's' charm, areas such as Paddington, Potts Point, Kings Cross, the Rocks and Bondi; and course taking the ferry to Manly must be one of the ultimate experiences in Australia. I also like Melbourne's St Kilda (reminds me of my old suburb Sea Point) - I love that kind of 'faded seaside character' and the fact that its not 'too perfect' - what us planners call 'urban grid'. I love the alleyways in Melbourne and the view from the Eureka tower, I loved hearing the Cookabaras in Yeppoon in Queensland where we lived, I love Brisbane's 'West End' neighbourhood and its art museum on South Bank, I love seeing the white Cockatoos fly over the bush in Healesville in the Yarra Valley (near Melbourne), I love Margaret River in WA (probably the closest Australia gets to the Garden Route). I love the Great Barrier Reef (Withsundays). I love Hahndorf near Adelaide. There are so many nice places and nice experiences here.

My friend in Moranbah has told me that since being in Australia, she has become a 'tree person' - amazed at all the various trees, which is quite sweet. I must say come to think of it, i have also become (extremely) interested in all the various types of gum trees in Australia - I think there are about 700 types (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eucalyptus). I used to hate them in South Africa - there they seem to suck the area around them dry and nothing can grow under them. But wow, they really do make 'sense' here in Australia - my favourite is the WA variety 'silver princess'. I had to have gum trees in my garden (how can you not if you live in Aus?!) - so I bought 2 silver princesses. They stand out from all other trees (gums) and each one is individual (http://gardenworld.net.au/.a/6a010536951c03970b0147e35d3d4f970b-800wi) - they seem to be almost 'humorous'. I suppose you either love them or hate them. I love their colour - grey/blue, which in fact is something I have realised in the Aus landscape - its very much a 'blue' landscape.

Similar to you, I now prefer 'staying at home' and spending time with my family - my favourite pasttime (same as you, in contrast to my 'youth' - which was spent living at night and sleeping by day and travelling the 'house club' circuit from London to New York, to Frankfurt and Cape Town).

Edited January 25, 2012 by Emille

[Queensland Girl]

off topic again- but - so there is hope for my Wild, music festival loving ,all night party animals I have raised. YAY!!!!May they one day also be happy with a slower life and give me some rest.

[Emille]

off topic again- but - so there is hope for my Wild, music festival loving ,all night party animals I have raised. YAY!!!!May they one day also be happy with a slower life and give me some rest.

i think there is hope - i have turned into the 'epitome' of a suburban middle class husband and dad (of which any mother-in-law can be proud of...)

[Donovan83]

You guys are making me both excited and nervous to go to Perth!

It is going to be a bit strange moving from JHB, a city with around 9 million people in it, to Perth, which doesn't quite have even 2 million in it.

I think the selling factor with that for me is that of the 9 million people in JHB, AT MOST a third are actually economically productive. The rest just serve to beg from you at every. possible. opportunity. Or to spray their soapy water onto your windscreen and unwantedly wash your windscreen (no matter how much you shout at them to go away). Or to try get you to throw your rubbish in to their plastic packet at a traffic light and then they want money (and they just force the rubbish into the stormwater drain when the bag gets full anyway). I went out last night for supper. In the 500 meters I drove (yes, drove, 500 meters because it's not safe to walk in the street) I had 3 beggars. Then, while sitting eating I was begged from AGAIN. I used to feel sympathy, but now I feel tempted to tell them to go back to their own country or to go beg from the union buildings. This is what they keep voting for so don't look to me to help. I was previously advantaged.

Anyway sorry got derailed there a bit... just "gatvol" of this place now. Anyway - in Perth, say 95% of people will be in some way economically active. So if it's a smaller city it's actually just fine in my eyes

Anywhere but africa.

[Emille]

hi Dono

I think you can be more excited (and less nervous) to go to Perth. Think of it this way - anything is an improvement on Johannesburg... Honestly here in Aus we are pretty much 'debating' various cities - a very big luxury - as we are talking about the cream of the cream of cities anyway ('debating if the no 6 most liveable city (Sydney) is better than the no 8 (Perth) most liveable city in the world or not...). Its like talking about whether you prefer Moet champagne or Krug - both champagne but because you are in a different class you have the luxury of being very specific and very choosy.

Yes Joburg has 9 million but half of them you never see as they are tucked in their ghettos. Those that are out of the ghettos either work for you or the zip passed you in their shiny cars on their way to their 'empowerment' CEO job in Sandton, or they invade your house while you are asleep. With Australia I found that even small places somehow feels bigger due to the economically active nature of the residents. A city with 60 000 people in Australia is quite different than a place with 60 000 in SA. Even a place like Rockhampton in Queensland where I worked is much more vibrant with a whole lot of choice compared to a similar sized city (town?) in SA.

Perth has 1.6 million people (I think) (expected to growth to 2,3 mil in 2031).

[maxi]

You guys are making me both excited and nervous to go to Perth!

It is going to be a bit strange moving from JHB, a city with around 9 million people in it, to Perth, which doesn't quite have even 2 million in it.

I think the selling factor with that for me is that of the 9 million people in JHB, AT MOST a third are actually economically productive. The rest just serve to beg from you at every. possible. opportunity. Or to spray their soapy water onto your windscreen and unwantedly wash your windscreen (no matter how much you shout at them to go away). Or to try get you to throw your rubbish in to their plastic packet at a traffic light and then they want money (and they just force the rubbish into the stormwater drain when the bag gets full anyway). I went out last night for supper. In the 500 meters I drove (yes, drove, 500 meters because it's not safe to walk in the street) I had 3 beggars. Then, while sitting eating I was begged from AGAIN. I used to feel sympathy, but now I feel tempted to tell them to go back to their own country or to go beg from the union buildings. This is what they keep voting for so don't look to me to help. I was previously advantaged.

Anyway sorry got derailed there a bit... just "gatvol" of this place now. Anyway - in Perth, say 95% of people will be in some way economically active. So if it's a smaller city it's actually just fine in my eyes

Anywhere but africa.

On the topic of window washes, you wont believe me, but we have one in Perth, I have seen him a few times now. I work in Malaga and I saw him again tonight on the way home. I did not know this, but my wife said he tried to wash her window and she said no, but he carried on and she put her wipers on and he s**t himself blue she says.Welcome to Perthfotien.

[21yearsoutofrsa]

Hi Sibella

But I do stand by the case of the doctor (doctors wife) in Rockhampton who brought her maid - I find it to be quite pathetic and sad and I personally think she shouldve stayed in South Africa (its a bit like some people in SA who dont want to emigrate because they dont want to loose the luxury of a maid, garden boy etc - to those people I say you dont deserve Australia anyway).

A couple of issues here

1 I suspect the the maid was on a tourist visa (can't think

of what other visa she could be in Aus under), in which case she is not allowed to work.

2 I suspect that the min wage required by Australia was not paid.

3 I suspect the relevant taxes were not deducted and paid to the ATO.

4 I suspect the super annuation contributions were not paid.

Edited January 25, 2012 by 15 years out of RSA

[21yearsoutofrsa]

Anyway sorry got derailed there a bit... just "gatvol" of this place now. Anyway - in Perth, say 95% of people will be in some way economically active. So if it's a smaller city it's actually just fine in my eyes

I'm pretty sure I know what you're saying here, you're talking about the unemployment rate. In Perth, as with most of Australia about 50% of the population is economically active. I actually got a fright when I found the figure, I thought is would be higher. I didn't know that unemployment, under 16, scholars and uni students, retired and voluntary stay at home folk accounted for such a large section of the population.

[candivw]

Hi Maxi - glad to hear you are happy here. Did you feel uncertain before your 2 week holiday in SA?

Whats interesting, I know Ive read it before somewhere in an article, but it was confirmed recently with some Aussies I talked to, that the 'generalisation' of South Africans is that 'South Africans are quite arrogant'. This was interesting that we are perceived as arrogant and I thought a lot about why that is. I came up with the conclusion (theory) that is probably (i) due to our history and that we grew up 'that whites are better than others' (ii) 'that we always had other people doing the bad jobs we dont want to do' (my pet hate is still South Africans that get people in Australia to clean their houses for them (and the extreme of this - a doctor's wife in Rockhampton that brought her maid from South Africa with to Australia to help out!) - this while actually 99% of first world country people do without help (iii) definately the materialism part that you mentioned

You mention that thunder storms - yes I remember now - wouldnt mind that in perth...

Candivw - yes I remember the heatwave of last year. My concern is for my garden and my (newly created) koi pond and koi

A lot of the aussie girls at work say that many south africans talk down to people and are very materialistic. I met a saffer here who was unhappy here as she coudlnt afford to get her hair blow dried 3 x a week in Perth !!! PLEASE go get a real problem!

Edited January 25, 2012 by candivw

[Emille]

A lot of the aussie girls at work say that many south africans talk down to people and are very materialistic. I met a saffer here who was unhappy here as she coudlnt afford to get her hair blow dried 3 x a week in Perth !!! PLEASE go get a real problem!

ha ha classic - how ridiculous can one be. i like your last sentence 'please go get a real problem' - classic

[Emille]

I'm pretty sure I know what you're saying here, you're talking about the unemployment rate. In Perth, as with most of Australia about 50% of the population is economically active. I actually got a fright when I found the figure, I thought is would be higher. I didn't know that unemployment, under 16, scholars and uni students, retired and voluntary stay at home folk accounted for such a large section of the population.

the official unemployment rate in Aus I think is something like 4,2%. Not bad if you compare it to the 10% in the UK and the almost 30% in Spain (and about 50% in South Africa). I think in Zim its something like 90% - and I wont be suprised if the real number is much higher in SA. Those unemployed are those that cannot find work or choose not to search for work (dole). however, all those people that dont work because they study, or are young or retired are still 'economically active' - they are still self reliant in the sense their parents look after them, or they have a pension or they have a study loan - in other words they are still 'active' in the economy..

Edited January 26, 2012 by Emille

[Joeemm]

Hi Emille and everyone else in Perth

We've been here about 6 years (maybe seven, gets a pit blurred ;-)) thanks for all the comments and observations

I know from friends back in SA that this is very helpful to them when (and I think for quite a number it will be when rather than if) they are faced with the choice of which city to re-locate to.

Anyway, I hope you all had a great Australia day and I thought I put up two pics of Mallaloo Beach (not sure of spelling) excuse the quality, they are with the iPhone :-)

We had a very peaceful morning, people playing cricket, volley ball, and of course a whole range of mini-barbies going. Loads of cyclingst, My wife even rode from Hepburn ave to the beach on her own, no issue from traffic or anyone else. So, just normal stuff that we are proviledges to experiece and be a part of in Perth.

[craigsa]

WOW, This post has gone full circle, covering maids, Koi, city comparisons, unemployment rates, beaches, etc. For what it's worth, my ex would barely make me a cup of coffee in SA, so I'm fine being more self-sufficient

Love the pics and videos of Perth and we can't wait to get there. We're coming for a short visit early in Feb so that my lady can also experience what Perth has to offer and hoping to sort job out soon after.

Emille - I think we need to prohibit you from posting pics and videos of Sydney under a Perth post.

[odelia]

Hi Emille

Just a few comments on your postings (and these are my personal observation and does not necessarily reflect anyone else's ):

1. You are definitely correct about Perth being like Bloemfontein, in fact it is jokingly called ‘Bloemfontein by the sea”- we chose Perth deliberately with this in mind – having grown up in Johannesburg and working there most of my life, we lived in NZ for a while and then moved back to SA and lived for a couple of years in Frankfort, a small Free State town. When we decided to move to Aus, we knew we did not want to live in the big smoke (Sydney), wasn’t really into the humid weather of Brisbane and Melbourne’s famous 4 seasons in one day did not appeal either. We like Perth because:

a. We can have an outdoor lifestyle with some of the world’s best beaches on our doorstep;

b. Our children can ride their bikes in the streets, we have the most amazing parks and bushland

c. There is still an old fashioned mindset here, may be boring for youngsters but if you want to bring up a family, definitely the best place

d. If you are in the mining and resources sector, this is the place where things are happening at the moment

e. Negatives of Perth;

i. Bloody hot at the moment

ii. Quite expensive compared to other cities, especially real estate

iii. Remote compared to other cities, sometimes we feel we are in a different country

f. But all in all, wouldn’t leave it for the best job offer over east (and our job prospects are actually better over east, well for my husband at least – I am in the mining sector)

2. With regard to South Africans being materialistic, I think you are generalising – all nations have some sectors in their population who are materialistic, even the Ausssies. At a conference I attended in Melbourne last year, I was amazed at the number of Aussies confirming that they put their kids in the private schools, not for the religious side, but because their children will then be in the right circle and that they did not want their kids ro mix with state school kids... Also have you seen some of the houses and cars being driven in Applecross, Dalkeith and Peppie (or the Macmansions in Hillarys and Kallaroo)? I can guarantee you that they are not all occupied by Saffers. We as Saffers must realise that in South Africa we mostly lived in the affluent areas (ie not the townships) - when we arrive here very few can live in the same standard of suburb and we tend to live in the more middle class suburbs -therefore we start mixing with the Aussies which are much more middle class than our ex South African neighbours. We immediately assume that all Aussies are like them, not class conscious,etc.. but believe me move into a posh area, and you get the same keeping up with the Jones’ attitude.

3. Just a small point on hiring domestic help – your statement about getting angry when Saffers hire Australians to do their house work, indicates that there is something wrong with the job of domestic cleaner. I know of 2 of my friends from SA who when they landed here started cleaning other people’s houses. They earned more that way and had the flexibility to work around school hours than they would have in their chosen professions. At my office there are a number of Aussies who also have a lady come in to clean their houses, even the PA to the manager has one… so it is all a question of your specific life style and whether you can afford to pay someone 25-30 dollars an hour. I get a lady in for 2 hours during the week and over the weekends I also clean the house, maybe I am bit over the top with the cleaning but that’s just me. When I asked my Aussie friend if she thought it was bad to hire someone to clean her house, she laughed and said a couple of her friends who work full time also have someone come in and that we should not be so sensitive about these things - there's nothing wrong with outsourcing some of your chores - we don't bake our own bread for goodness sake (well most of us), we buy it, does that make me more lazy?...

4. Oh an there are loads of Saffers here who can and do a hold an intelligent conversation and sometimes we just like to chill and talk about the weather or what the silly pollies are up to or what the latest goss is in Hollywood….

5. Peace to all!

[Emille]

Hi Odelia

THanks for your response and I am glad you have responded to give your opinion and people can make a better assessment for themselves

1. I tried my whole life to move away from Bloemfontein so the whole Bfn setup is something that does not accord with me. Perhaps thats why I prefer Sydney to Perth. Nobody can tell me about the (generally) narrow mindedness, conservativeness and 'simpleness' of your average Bloemfonteiner (and their equivalents in Pretoria and other places). If I never see people like this again its too soon - unfortunately I bump into them every week in Perth.

a. This is true for Perth, but this is also true for any other capital in Aus, including Sydney.

b. Again, this is true for any capital in Aus - safety and access to natural areas.

c. I cannot comment on the old fashioned mindset as I dont know what you define as 'old fashioned'.

d. Definately the best place if you are in resources (if in coal and LNG - Queensland as well).

e.

i. Yes very hot. But again this is probably true for any other Aussie city. Perhaps Perth is more consistently 'hot' (apart from Queensland where I died of the heat/humidity)

ii. I would agree more expensive than other, but not with real estate - real estate here is actually 'quite' cheap compared to Sydney and Brisbane, not sure about Melbourne.

iii. Yes its remote, but as I said it 'feels' less remote than what I originally thought it would feel like. But reality is its a long way from other capitals.

f. I wont move as I have moved too much and my family needs stability. However, if I could 'have it all over again' I would probably have moved to Melbourne instead.

2. With 'South Africans being materialistic' - of course I am generalising as I dont believe all South Africans are materialistic. My comment referred to the generalisation among Aussies that South Africans 'are arrogant' - I have heard and read about it so many times from various sources. And one of my explanations for this was that it could be because some South Africans are materialistic. Talking about Aussies, of course there are Aussies that are materialistic - but some societies are generally more materialistic than other societies - Australia I would say is about mid-way between 'materialistic' and 'not materialistic'. More materialistic countries that Aus I would say include places like the USA, UK and South Africa (whites and rich blacks), and less materialistic societies than Aus I would say New Zealand, Holland and Sweden. First world countries though have a larger middleclass proportion of the population than third world countries where there are very rich and very poor people and smaller middle class.

3. As I said in my post, its what irritates me and its my subjective view - particularly in instances where people dont work and are at home full-time. you obviously work and I assume most of the people you talk to who has domestic help work as well. I have not said, if you read my post carefully, my post does not 'indicate' that there is anything wrong with doing domestic help- I do say and I still say that if you dont work and you dont have kids, and you have full time domestic help, then I have a problem with it. I dont say other people must have a problem with it, I am saying I have one and I say it indicates a level of spoilness (if there is such a word).

4. I am sure out of the 18-25k south africans in perth there must be people who can hold an intelligent conversation - I have yet to meet them however, maybe its just my bad luck. Of course nobody wants to talk 'intelligent' all the time, but so too I dont want to hear all the time how bad the Australians are and how bad the African people in South Africa are or how bad both the Aussies and the Africans are.

5. ?

Edited January 28, 2012 by Emille

[Fish]

@Emille, As an aside Brisbane real estate is now the cheapest out of any mainline capital city.

[Emille]

i suppose it depends on where you want to live and what you are looking for - i find if you want to have a house anywhere in a particular city, yes then the official statistics are quite correct. However, we wanted to be close to the CBD - and there is no way that I would be able to afford a house less than 6 km from a CBD other than in Adelaide and in Perth. For the same price of my house in Perth now, I have to live 40 km outside of the Sydney CBD and probably 20 km outside Brisbane CBD.

[Fish]

i suppose it depends on where you want to live and what you are looking for - i find if you want to have a house anywhere in a particular city, yes then the official statistics are quite correct. However, we wanted to be close to the CBD - and there is no way that I would be able to afford a house less than 6 km from a CBD other than in Adelaide and in Perth. For the same price of my house in Perth now, I have to live 40 km outside of the Sydney CBD and probably 20 km outside Brisbane CBD.

Surprised by that given we are talking the median house price and the Brisbane and Perth sprawls are not that dissimilar so I thought median distance would not be that far apart, thought maybe a little further out in Brisbane but wouldn't have expected it to make a 14km difference. House prices drop a lot in Brisbane well before 20km.

Here's a few examples:

- asking price of $550,000 around 6km from the CBD in a good suburb: http://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-qld-gordon+park-109197656

- asking price around $575,000 around 8km from the CBD in a good suburb: http://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-qld-holland+park-107601430

- asking price $499,000 around 8km from the CBD in a good suburb: http://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-qld-holland+park-108579676

Interested in this as I have often wondered how they compare....is Perth a lot cheaper than this for similar houses 6km out?

Edited January 28, 2012 by Fish

[Emille]

some nice properties you listed...

its difficult to compare properties in different cities as properties are different and particular areas are different than others (not just about distance from CBD):

check these out 6km from city (bedford/bayswater where I live):

http://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-wa-bedford-108811941

http://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-wa-bedford-108529806

http://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-wa-bayswater-107611180

http://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-wa-bayswater-108741246

http://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-wa-bayswater-108513176

8 km from city:

http://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-wa-bayswater-108513176

http://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-wa-lathlain-109134566

http://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-wa-lathlain-109087756

[craigsa]

I really like some of these houses. To buy or not to buy, that is the question???

[Emille]

I really like some of these houses. To buy or not to buy, that is the question???

my view is if you are (relatively) close to the CBD in any city, you make a good investment

buy as close to the cbd as what one can afford

as cities grow larger the inner areas escalate in price - its inevitable

Edited January 29, 2012 by Emille

[Fish]

my view is if you are (relatively) close to the CBD in any city, you make a good investment

buy as close to the cbd as what one can afford

as cities grow larger the inner areas escalate in price - its inevitable

Yes, very difficult to compare accurately but from those house/town house prices I would say Perth just shades it but there doesn't seem that much in it? I agree with you that close as possible is best. Also get the advantage of better services, usually better govt schools, better transport, better entertainment, more history, more walkable etc etc. Of course everyone is different as some like the outer burbs as well.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Fish

[candivw]

some nice properties you listed...

its difficult to compare properties in different cities as properties are different and particular areas are different than others (not just about distance from CBD):

check these out 6km from city (bedford/bayswater where I live):

http://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-wa-bedford-108811941

http://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-wa-bedford-108529806

http://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-wa-bayswater-107611180

http://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-wa-bayswater-108741246

http://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-wa-bayswater-108513176

8 km from city:

http://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-wa-bayswater-108513176

http://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-wa-lathlain-109134566

http://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-wa-lathlain-109087756

Would love to live Closer to the city but we dont have $500 k to spend!! And Lathlain area i just dont like to be honest. Lived in Bayswater for the first year but man those shops in Morley get so busy!!! Cant get a park some days

[Emille]

Would love to live Closer to the city but we dont have $500 k to spend!! And Lathlain area i just dont like to be honest. Lived in Bayswater for the first year but man those shops in Morley get so busy!!! Cant get a park some days

We actually dont like Galleria that much. 'Found' Yallingup centre in December which is the closest to a typical 'south african' centre. My wife likes Belmont centre as well - manageable size and with Big W (dont know why Galleria doesnt have Big W) - K mart doesnt do it for me..

Edited January 30, 2012 by Emille

[candivw]

Never been to Yallingup centre. Karrinyup centre is lovely