Perth

[Emille]

Hi

I posted this post as a response to a question by Dono elsewhere but I thought this may be useful for people researching Perth - if the website duplication police feels this is inappropriate I am happy for a link to be placed here to my other post.

Just a few 'random' thoughts with the provisio these are my thoughts and my opinions and may be totally the opposite for somebody else. Weight up everything and make up your own mind - as you know yourself best:

We moved to Perth in January 2011. So its been a year. Well anybody on this forum who knows me knows that I really really wanted to go to Sydney but that my job opportunities there is limited. I got a job in Perth and we moved here. The most important thing to remember is where you would eventually settle is the place (i) which will support your visa/immigration needs (ii) where you get a job (iii) where you have family/support - it could be all 3 or it could be 1 of the three.

The issue with Perth is a funny one. Yes its true there are worse places to settle than Perth (Rockhampton for instance where I had to stay for 2 years on my RSMS visa), but its also true that there are better places to settle (and I can here the Perth crowd getting hot under the collar...). BUT it is a personal issue like everything else. Take South Africa for instance, I grew up in Bloemfontein and always since I was small wanted to move/live in Cape Town - and I hated Bloemfontein - it was too conservative, too small, not enough 'water', pretty boring. There is nothing 'bad' about Bloemfontein per se, its more that its what you as a person want/need - Bfn has good schools, good culture, easy living, all the facilities you would ever need, a safe city with a supportive community (nothing wrong with any of these - but I wanted different things and I suppose more). When I eventually moved to Cape Town (our holidays throughout childhood were spent in Joburg, Durban, PE, Cape Town, Garden Route etc) I thought its the best place and I cannot understand how anybody could live anywhere else in South Africa (I mean really). To this day I still think CT is one of the great cities of the world and if it wasnt situated in South Africa/Africa and if it wasnt for the crime/economic situation in SA, it would be one of the top places in the world. There certaintly is very few (none?) places that can compete with CT for its lifestyle and beauty.

Anyway - my point is you would get a lot of people that would prefer Bloemfontein to any other place in South Africa and who thinks its the best place on earth! Other people would prefer to live in even smaller places and even think Bloemfontein is too big/wild for them. So too for Australia. So to take my comparison a step further - if you like Bloemfontein and would prefer to live in Bloemfontein that Cape Town, then I would say Perth would be perfect for you. Perth compared to South Africa is probably something like Port Elizabeth - if you sort of compare the size in relation to other cities in the same country. Its not the economic powerhouse, its not the world city, its not the most beautiful and its not the ugliest/smallest either, and there is nothing wrong per se about it. Again, you have a good climate (probably best in Australia and not so extreme - apart from the extreme heat sometimes), its got good schools, its got good universities, the people are friendly, its more affordable and its easy living (easy to move around, no major traffic issues etc). But again, as Bloemfontein, I cannot help but think there are definately better cities out there which are more dynamic, which are more beautiful, where theres more activity (economic opportunities) etc. But it depends on the phase of your life too - if you are a young family your needs/priorities are different than if you just start your career etc.

Whats good is the accessibility of Perth compared to South Africa. If money is no object, and if you live in Joburg, you could be back at your parents place in 11 hours. Perth-Joburg direct. Noting though that the direct flights almost always are more expensive than the 'via Singapore / via Dubai / via KL tickets). If you live in CT you can relatively easily fly Perth-Joburg-CT or Perth-Singapore-CT. Compare that to the 36 hour 'trek' from Brisbane, to KL, to Cape Town or Melbourne - Perth - Joburg - CT etc., its closer and accessible. Having said that - its quite removed from other cities in Aus - does not feel 'isolated' per se (as I thought before we moved here - that it will 'feel' isolated, it doesnt at all) - but it does take time and money to visit other Aussie cities. You can live in Adelaide, or Melbourne or Sydney, and you can take a car to other cities. Not here. This wasnt a problem when we had no mortgage (to jet around everywhere), it is now with a mortgage - pretty much 'stuck' here for the time being. Which I suppose is not all bad as it gives you time to settle in.

I had to realise (a painful realisation) Sydney will unfortunately not be an option for me - (i) too few jobs in my field (ii) not paying enough (iii) too expensive (iv) and that the idea that I have of 'living in Sydney' is a 'dream' idea- even if I lived there - I would probably have to live in a flat or travel 40km to the CBD (it wont be a nice 1890 terrace house in Paddington, unfortunately). Houses are still affforable in Perth - and its different living 20km from Perth CBD than it is 20km from Sydney CBD as its easier to move around.

A big negatives for me about Perth - its smaller than other capitals which has it drawbacks in terms of the job market - the job market really is small and your scope to move around are limited. I am amazed that in my field - almost everybody 'knows' somehow the other people in the field - and you interact with the same people at different meetings/functions etc. In my field, for every 1 job in Perth, there are about 4 jobs in Brisbane, 1 job in Sydney and 7 jobs in Melbourne. This makes me a bit nervous - as you dont want to stay in the same job for ever and you also dont want to make some mistake in your job and then everybody knows about it. For instance, I recently applied for other jobs, and people all over knew that I applied (without me telling anybody). Makes me claustrophobic. Somehow building your 'network' seems to be much more important here than elsewhere. Having said that though, I got a new job and that was without a new network - but I think this increasingly becomes more important as you climb the ladder.

Perth is a beautiful city, the people are friendly. There are bits that are really 'boring' and 'monotone' - suburbs that goes on forever where houses look the same and where there are no trees in sight. The CBD is beautiful from across the river, but really when you get into the CBD you realise its a small little place and quite 'dull' compared to other cities. But there are the odd interesting things and spots. Shopping centres (dont know if this is an Australian thing) - compared to South Africa, all look/feel as if they have been built in 1980. What I like about Perth, is that I can drive around to various places in around 30-40 minutes without major traffic issues etc. If I compare Perth - some suburbs have the feel of Table View/Milnerton in Cape Town, others the feel of Rondebosch, others the feel of Brackenfell. A lot of suburbs remind me of Bloemfontein suburbs.

Perth undoubtedly has the most 'South African' feel of Australian cities. So if you want to move to a place where it feels you have never left South Africa, you have come to the right place! South Africans seem to love this place, and I can understand why. I also think (this is no 'scientific assessment') that Perth draws the more conservative of South Africans. Whether this is good or bad depends, again, on your personality.

That brings me to South Africans. (this is not for 'sensitive viewers', albeit 'sensitive readers). I thought Perth's SA population would be much more prominent, and with that, more open and friendly. I found that actually I havent met that many South Africans and that SAers (apart from people here knowing I am SA when they here my accent as opposed to other places where they dont know what the accent is), which is strange. But then I dont really live where a lot of SA people live (I assume Duncraig and north of that, and Rockhingham area and surrounds?). I do not feel that things that I did not use in SA I now suddenly cannot live without - I do like my MsBalls chutney ($5) and 'Ouma' beskuit ($5)- but I can live without Surf, Maltabella pap (never liked it since I was a child - but SA people now seem to crave it?!!!!!!), Pronutro (this was my 'budget'/end of the month' pap in SA and if I never try it again it would be too soon). I dont like rugby (ever since I was 'forced' to play it in primary school - anyway if I have to support a team it will be the Australian team not the SA team - otherwise I should have have stayed in SA), I dont really like beer and I dont mind barbecue but its not the centre of my cultural identity. Everybody that I seem to have met to date is from Pretoria, or places like Boksburg and Springs. Not bad per se but just 'different'. I am 'over' the usual conversation when you meet another South Africa (i) Hi I am Emille, whats your name (ii) where are you from (iii) how long have you been in Australia ----- and then if you enter a real meaningful conversation, it continues along these lines (iv) whereaabouts do you live (v) where do you work (be careful answering this one). And then you get the South Africans that (i) has nothing good to say about Australia and Australians, and the other group (ii) that has nothing good to say about South Africa or (iii) a combination of the two. I often wonder where are those people that I used to know in SA where I could have good, meaningful, balanced, intelligent conversations with - maybe I must give it time. Let me get back to your question about Perth:

If architecture/design is your thing - Perth is pretty much a '1980' city. Having said that, I thought the central parts of Perth would be much more bland and modern. In fact there are many older buildings and some areas have a lot of character. I am amazed though that a city like Perth, essentially a beach city, for lack of a better term, has no 'character/focus seaside' area - all the areas along the sea are 'suburban' areas, apart from perhaps Fremantle, but then again I cannot find a beach in Fremantle (is there one?). There is no equivalent to Melbourne's St Kilda, Sydney's Bondi Beach (Cape Town's Sea Point, Durban's Marine Parade' etc), which is quite strange. I remember first time I went to Cottlesloe, I expected Camps Bay/Sea Point, but instead found Humewood / Jeffreys Bay. When I went to 'City Beach', expecting to find St Kilda/Bondi, I found Bloubergstrand (without the bit of character and the view).

One lesson I have learned - be aware on how expensive it is to move house in Australia. The move from Queensland to Perth costed $15k - so $2 k less than what it costed to move from Cape Town to Queensland. This was quite a shock to me. So worth keeping in mind if you do consider to move again (I you are not sure I would store my stuff and I wont buy property).

Of course, if you are rich, none of the above applies. Perth, as any place on earth, is an excellent place to live as you can choose the nicest house in the nicest suburbs, sending your kids to the nicest private schools, shop at the nicest shops and go to the nicest restaurants. But then again you can do that in London, Lagos, Bangkok, Cape Town or Moscow. Sadly thats only a minority of us - and dont know how many would be on this forum anyway.

To summarise:

i) the first year or two in Australia is the time to settle in, get into the economy, get the Aussie experience, adapt (so in other words, it could be done anywhere)

ii) make sure though that if you may not stay in your first city/town of choice, that you try to limit future expenses of moving elsewhere - in other words dont buy property and consider storing your furniture stuff

iii) Perth is a totally liveable city, with friendly people, nice weather, easy accessibility, everything you need, 'close' to South Africa - and the 'most South African city in Australia'

iv) Perth is not the most exciting or most beautiful or the one with the most vitality in Australian cities - in my opinion if all things are equal (the 'realities of life'), I would prefer to live in Sydney first and then Melbourne - this depend on personality and most of all money/career

v) even if its not the 'top' Aussie city (in my opinion), its a pretty good place to be if you compare the world's cities (voted in top 20 most liveable) and the fact you have the priviliage to escape South Africa and live in the greatest country on earth - AUSTRALIA (ss was said above, there are worse places to be stuck in than Perth....)

my 2cents of worth (or its probably more than a dollar if you count the words)

Edited January 20, 2012 by Emille

[candivw]

Yup i agree alot with what you have said. We knew my hubby would be the main breadwinner here, my job options are limited as there are no head officesin my field here, i had to settle for a job in retail but i guess change isnt always a bad thing. No beach front etc to talk about, Cottesloe has a small are abut nothing to write home about. Freo does have a beach, its Leighton beach and another beach adjacent to it

ETA and agree alot about other south africans, after living here for 3 years most of them annoy me as they are too materialistic and act like they are in high school, very clicky.

Edited January 20, 2012 by candivw

[Emille]

so candivw good to know i am not the only one that experience it all like this

i will check leighton beach out next time i am in freo

understand exactly what you mean about South Africans being materialistic and act they are in high school (ha ha ha....)

e

[AndreaL]

Hi Emille

Here is a link to Freo's beaches Fremantle beaches

We mostly used to go to Coogee and have fish and chips ( or was that Cottosloe) or Leightons, or any number of the parts of beach that are just called " Dog beach". We just used to park the car up and cross over the railway and see what the beach looked like. Perth suburbs are a mish mash, parts of Subiaco are nice ( quaint old houses) big houses at Applecross...... Hilary's boat harbour still feels too new to me, although I did enjoy taking a bus into town and then the ferry across to South Perth/Como and a little walk to the zoo

[craigsa]

Very interesting read. Having lived in Australia for 2 years now, I can relate to lots of what you said. I too thought that Sydney was the place for me, but fate threw me a few curve-balls during my first few months here. In the end, I spent about 3 months in Sydney, a year and a half in Melbourne and we have just decided to move to Perth early this year. We have decided that Perth is the "end of the road" for us.....in a good way. I'm typically a big city guy, hence my initial attraction to Sydney, but after almost 2 years in Melbourne, I have decided that perth offers a much better lifestyle. It's not so quiet that you're bored with absolutely nothing to do, but it's not bursting at the seams either. It's got a lot to do at the stage of your life - If I were a single guy, I would be unlikely to settle in Perth, but as someone that is now looking to start a family, continue my studies and improve my lifestyle, Perth ticks most of the check boxes. Weather, timezones, easy access to Asia, etc, etc are all perks. If you're still struggling to find intelligent conversation in a similar accent by the time I get there, I'll look you up and offer my services

I'm curious, what line of work are you in that Sydney seems to offer you the least options?

[Emille]

Hi AndreaL - thanks for the link to the beaches - I am amazed that there are beaches in Fremantle. I will definately check that out one by one. I to like Subiaco, but not so much applecross - applecross is a good example that 'money doesnt buy taste' - huge characterful bland houses. Nice view to the CBD skyline though. Yes I know what you mean about Hillarys, I think after V&A Waterfront in CT any 'waterfront' or boat harbour is a bit of a dissappointment.

Hi CraigSA - its interesting to hear your views about living in Sydney/Melbourne. Also interesting to hear your views about Perth - you are quite right about what youve said. Perth is definately one of the better places to raise kids, as you say. I understand what you say about 'end of the road' for you - exactly my position - we moved to London, back to CT, then to Queensland and then to Perth - Ive had it with moving house and setting up a new life and make friends every time. My line of work is 'urban planner'... yes its ironic for most other jobs Sydney has the most opportunities (apart from mining I suppose) - but not for planning. When are you heading to Perth? yes mate i am still looking for intelligent conversation. I wouldnt mind taking you up on your offer for intelligent conversation ! send me a private message when you are close to arriving and perhaps we can meet for coffee and have a chat.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Emille

[Emille]

this is classic

Edited January 22, 2012 by Emille

[Emille]

WA ECONOMY TOP IN COUNTRY

This appeared in today's newspaper (The West):

WA continues to lead the nation's economic growth and is set to maintain its course for most of this year.

WA's economic output is now 28 per cent higher than its 10-year average, the latest quarterly State of the States report compiled by CommSec shows.

"Western Australia has consolidated its position as the nation's strongest economy," CommSec chief economist Craig James said in a statement.

The state is also leading its eastern state counterparts in terms of construction activity, business equipment spending, while its 4.3 per cent jobless rate is the lowest next to the ACT on 3.8 per cent.

It's also doing well on retail spending and population growth.

"Western Australia is expected to hold its position in coming quarters," Mr James said.

But Queensland is on its way to catching up, underpinned by a strengthening resources sector and building reconstruction, CommSec said.

Queensland's quarterly economic output was 19 per cent above its long term average and while that's well down on WA it's still well ahead of Australia's most populous state of NSW, which recorded a comparatively measly 8 per cent - the weakest of all the states and territories.

"The outlook for the NSW economy is more uncertain," Mr James said.

"Unemployment is steady and population growth is still slightly above long-term averages.

"But growth in equipment investment has slowed, retail spending is falling in real terms compared with a year ago, while dwelling starts are also down on a year ago."

However, Reserve Bank of Australia interest rate cuts in November and December should help housing activity across the nation, with Queensland and NSW most likely to benefit.

And if the global economic conditions improve, there should be wider growth.

"If the global economy picks up steam, this will benefit resources-dependent economies such as Western Australia, Queensland, South Australia and Northern Territory," Mr James said.

The outlook for the global economy is fragile at present, after the World Bank this week cut by almost half its forecasts for 2012 and 2013 and warned there could be another world recession ahead.

While the federal government continues to talk about the two-speed nature of the national economy, where resources states like WA are growing while others languish, Mr James believes the situation is more fractured.

He says Australia has a three-speed economy, with WA well out in front on its own, Victoria and the ACT in the second group and a third tier made up of Tasmania, Queensland, South Australia, NSW and the Northern Territory.

The State of the States report analysed eight key indicators gathered over the December quarter 2011 and compared the outcomes with long-term averages.

[craigsa]

Interesting article - Surely you're convinced now that you're in the right place and no longer dream'n of Sydney

I'm in the process of looking at my options for work in Perth, and should have a much better idea of timing mid to end Feb with view to move in March. I'll definitely get in touch closer to the time. In the meantime, I'll keep an eye out for your insightful posts while I try learn as much as I can about Perth.

[Emille]

Ha ha mate!! Yes the economy's good but i think a lot has to do with mining - so if you are in a field related to mining then its the place to be. The question that I am sitting with though is what the impact of the European crisis could have on WA - you would think it needs a mention but the article above largely ignores it - you know the following scenario:

- Europe market bust - buyers for chinese products decrease - china manufacturing suffers - china's need for resources decreases - no good news for WA -

Dont know whether it will just be a decrease from 8% china growth to 6% china growth or what it will mean. The problem with WA economy that makes me nervous though is its got 'all its eggs in one basket'.

Long-term though if WA can diversify its economy based on its wealth earned from resources, it could have a good future (a bit like diversification from oil in the middle eastern countries...)

But my 'connection' with Sydney was more of an emotional connection - you know a matter of 'love at first sight'. I mean look at the attach pic of Sydney harbour that I took out of the plane - how great is that!!!!!! I saw this program the other day and I was crumbling inside - especially after seeing those harbour views... same emotion as when I see table mountain (I suppose a bit like a women I was in love with but who never liked me....!): http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/586229

All the best in your jobsearch - let me know if you need any advice on jobs / options etc., or perth in general

Since this is a post about Perth, I attach a few pics

Edited January 23, 2012 by Emille

[Emille]

Lonely planet video about perth:

enjoy

[Emille]

and the WA promotional video on perth:

[maxi]

We been here in Perth for two years on 18 Jan and love it dearly. I went back to South Africa in October last year for two weeks, and after 1 week wanted to get back home (Perth) ASAP.After my two weeks away I am proud to call Australia home.There is nothing I dont like about the place, except those South Africans you talk about Emille, we actually bumbed into some on saterday.

When we landed here it reminded me of South Africa 30 years ago, stuck in a timeworp.We find Perth just so laidback and love it. We lived in JHB, so it was a shock to coming to a small city, were as you say every thing is no more than 4o minutes away.

If i have some advice to South Africans comming over , the regular Aussie does care about how big your house was in SA or how many Mercs and BMW you owned, they are not materialistic at all, they dont care and would think you are a snob. I just remebered there is one thing I dislike and that is the heat and no thunder showers in the afternoon, 40 degrees later this week.

Edited January 23, 2012 by maxi

[candivw]

Yes not looking foreard to this heatwave!!

[Emille]

Hi Maxi - glad to hear you are happy here. Did you feel uncertain before your 2 week holiday in SA?

Whats interesting, I know Ive read it before somewhere in an article, but it was confirmed recently with some Aussies I talked to, that the 'generalisation' of South Africans is that 'South Africans are quite arrogant'. This was interesting that we are perceived as arrogant and I thought a lot about why that is. I came up with the conclusion (theory) that is probably (i) due to our history and that we grew up 'that whites are better than others' (ii) 'that we always had other people doing the bad jobs we dont want to do' (my pet hate is still South Africans that get people in Australia to clean their houses for them (and the extreme of this - a doctor's wife in Rockhampton that brought her maid from South Africa with to Australia to help out!) - this while actually 99% of first world country people do without help (iii) definately the materialism part that you mentioned

You mention that thunder storms - yes I remember now - wouldnt mind that in perth...

Candivw - yes I remember the heatwave of last year. My concern is for my garden and my (newly created) koi pond and koi

[Sibella]

Emile that's not very nice!

I have 3 kids (my youngest being only 3 months old) and I do get a cleaner once every second week to help me because I just can't cope with everything at the moment. It's not because I'm South African (lots of Aussies have cleaners too) or lazy.

I also had one in the UK (and most of my neighbours had them too).

It's not like they cook or tidy up or look after my kids. They don't do dishes or make beds, they just clean which is fine by me.

If you can afford it why ever not? Just saying... But I do agree with the other stuff you said.

[Emille]

Hi Sibella

yes you are right its not 'very nice'. Within context its just something that irritates me - I dont say I am necessarily 'correct'. I feel if you have 3 kids like yourself, or if both parents work and they need help, or if it once a week or whatever its fine by me. Its more the people that dont work (and sometimes dont have kids), but they still have help to do the work that they dont want to do. But I do stand by the case of the doctor (doctors wife) in Rockhampton who brought her maid - I find it to be quite pathetic and sad and I personally think she shouldve stayed in South Africa (its a bit like some people in SA who dont want to emigrate because they dont want to loose the luxury of a maid, garden boy etc - to those people I say you dont deserve Australia anyway).

Having said all that though you are quite correct that if you can afford it I suppose its your choice. Anyway its not for me to say what other people should do, but I suppose I can still say what 'irritates' me... (like people who drive 60 in the right-hand-lane on freeways that are 100 (have they ever heard of 'keep left pass right' - dont know if its just a Perth thing...)

Edited January 24, 2012 by Emille

[Emille]

PS seems like I am on a mission to agravate my fellow south africans

Edited January 24, 2012 by Emille

[Queensland Girl]

I am really agravated now- why? You are allowed to keep koi?

We had the most beautiful koi ponds in South Africa ( See- I can also be a when we) but they are forbidden in QLD. Just 60 km down the drag over the NSW border( Border River:tweed River) I can keep Koi.How is that for stupid.

Another one up for Perth!

[AndreaL]

I sort of understand both sides of the story...........in relation to people having cleaners that is.

Yes, there are the women who come to Australia and don't know how they will cope without Beauty or Moses.........some even that have never put their own child to bed, or even cooked a meal ( yes they do exist)

And then there are the many Australian women who do employ a cleaner, or an Au Pair, which is becoming increasingly popular here in Moranbah ( a Queensland mining town). In this town, a number of the women work on the mines either in traditional admin roles, or more and more these days, in the traditionally male dominated roles such as truck driving, underground artisan, geologist etc.

They work long hours and unusual shifts and many people here employ either a casual cleaner, or someone to do their ironing, or an Au pair ( we all know what child care costs here). The difference is that these women still mow the lawn on their days off, clean their house and get their kids to school and extra curricular activities...............they are not lazy, just time short.

Many of the women who do clean, do so because they can work school hours around kindy or primary kids, and it's cash in hand. Most charge around $30 plus per hour. Many little home enterprises have blossomed here, such as the lady who will steam clean your oven for $90 ( no thanks, I'll stick to Mr Muscle at that price!)

Emille's recount of the Doctors wife who brought the maid along doers happen.......... A local management level Saffers first question on arrival locally was to enquire, " Where might I find a coloured person to clean my house, my wife doesn't clean".

BTW, thanks for the pics of Perth. I'd forgotten how pretty it is. I'm glad we all like different things though. I consider myself quite adaptable and have lived all over RSA, the UK, Namibia and WA and QLD. I've found good and bad in all those places. Personally, I prefer to be over in the Eastern states as I always felt a bit disconnected in Perth.....but I think my city days are over, so I am quite content to live in a little mining town, provided I get a time out every month or two. You also find a very interesting mix of social and intellectual contrasts in mining towns.

[Emille]

I am really agravated now- why? You are allowed to keep koi?

We had the most beautiful koi ponds in South Africa ( See- I can also be a when we) but they are forbidden in QLD. Just 60 km down the drag over the NSW border( Border River:tweed River) I can keep Koi.How is that for stupid.

Another one up for Perth!

Ha ha queensland girl what a funny post! I suppose thats a big plus for Perth then. Somebody told me they were only allowed in WA and NSW - and I did not believe him, so its true. I had to give away all my plants when I moved from Queensland to WA as they were not allowed... Well I suppose thats a big plus then. I am enjoying my new found koi 'hobby' tremendously - why did nobody ever tell me that its the best thing since sliced bread!. I would spend 24/7 next to the pond if I had the time, just watching (my still smallish) koi... Only one complication though - Perth heat and an uncovered/unshaded pond does not go well together...

[Emille]

Many of the women who do clean, do so because they can work school hours around kindy or primary kids, and it's cash in hand. Most charge around $30 plus per hour. Many little home enterprises have blossomed here, such as the lady who will steam clean your oven for $90 ( no thanks, I'll stick to Mr Muscle at that price!)

Emille's recount of the Doctors wife who brought the maid along doers happen.......... A local management level Saffers first question on arrival locally was to enquire, " Where might I find a coloured person to clean my house, my wife doesn't clean".

BTW, thanks for the pics of Perth. I'd forgotten how pretty it is. I'm glad we all like different things though. I consider myself quite adaptable and have lived all over RSA, the UK, Namibia and WA and QLD. I've found good and bad in all those places. Personally, I prefer to be over in the Eastern states as I always felt a bit disconnected in Perth.....but I think my city days are over, so I am quite content to live in a little mining town, provided I get a time out every month or two. You also find a very interesting mix of social and intellectual contrasts in mining towns.

Hi AndreaL - thanks for your post. I agree with all the scenarios you state above.

You certainly are adaptable - Moranbah - do you know sonja g by any chance? friends of ours.

i suppose we are all off topic now talking about maids and koi...

so any opinions about perth

[maxi]

Hi Maxi - glad to hear you are happy here. Did you feel uncertain before your 2 week holiday in SA?

Whats interesting, I know Ive read it before somewhere in an article, but it was confirmed recently with some Aussies I talked to, that the 'generalisation' of South Africans is that 'South Africans are quite arrogant'. This was interesting that we are perceived as arrogant and I thought a lot about why that is. I came up with the conclusion (theory) that is probably (i) due to our history and that we grew up 'that whites are better than others' (ii) 'that we always had other people doing the bad jobs we dont want to do' (my pet hate is still South Africans that get people in Australia to clean their houses for them (and the extreme of this - a doctor's wife in Rockhampton that brought her maid from South Africa with to Australia to help out!) - this while actually 99% of first world country people do without help (iii) definately the materialism part that you mentioned

Hi Emille

No, we have not had any regrets about coming here at all, not for one day.I was looking forward to my visit to SA. It was just a confirmation that we did the correct thing by coming here.

[Emille]

Hi Maxi

We also just felt at home from the time we arrived - and our initial thoughts were 'why live anywhere else'

Aus is definately the place to be!

E

[AndreaL]

I liked Australia straight away. I liked the absence of pretence and how people treated you for the type of person you were, not what you did, where you lived, or what you drove.

I'm still not sure where I would like to settle one day, as we have no connection with any particular part of this land ( much as my parents felt when they emigrated to South Africa, in fact I think it took between 5 and 10 years for them to totally feel at home and have first-hand knowledge of the entire country- they are in C.T. now), but last week hubby and I were driving back from a week away. The scenery was green, with gently sloping hills, birds flying, insects buzzing......and I felt so at peace, it even reminded me of the Eastern Transvaal, but different. Hubby and I looked at each other and both agreed that we love this land........... best of all, it is a big adventure just waiting to be discovered. One day we will find our Nirvana right here in this vast continent.

For me, I try to avoid the tourist traps and ask the locals about the best and quietest places to go, as I find the locals keep the best places a bit of a secret.

Emille, I don't think I know your friends, but there are maybe around 30 South African families here in Moranbah. I'm not a braai kind of person,so I don't really socialise, I'd rather have a good Indian or Chinese take-away and a good movie, curled up with my man, ( Quite the opposite of my wild youth, going to all the music festivals, live music venues, alternative underground type of places)