My first month

[candivw]

Is your job level exactly the same as in SA? Is it the exact same job? If it is different, things are not expensive because Aus is more expensive than SA, but actually because you changed jobs. You would have suffered the exact consequence if you stayed in "cheap" SA.

Hope you get my point.

I say it again. Based on logical thinking and clear analytical thoughts where we compare apples with apples, Aus is more affordable than SA. Living through the consequences of emigrating has nothing to do with my original statement that things are cheap here.

I mean, I am sleeping on the floor for God sake, because I cannot afford a bed. Does that make Aus more expensive than SA? NO... NO.... NO!

No my hubby ( who is the main bread winner ) is in exactly the same job and same position level.

We have a fouton spare if you would like to borrow it?

[Jordy]

I mean, I am sleeping on the floor for God sake, because I cannot afford a bed.

Shame man in this cold weather that must suck.

I agree with Johan. As a percentage of salary in the exact same job in both countires, Aus comes out cheaper than RSA most of the time for odinary day to day expences. HOWEVER not in all departments. You have no idea how expensive it is to go a dentist in Aus. You have no idea how expensive it is to employ a lawyer at $380 / hour (not that I have needed one but still). To fly from JHB to Perth for a South African cost R7790 return. For the exact same day going the other way round cost $2000 for an Australian going to RSA. Bearing in mind it is the same blerry plane and same blerry company!!!!!!! Stupid blerry airlines ripoffs smucks. ................Now I forgot the point I was making.

[Jordy]

Of yes I remember now.........

Now when one compares Aus to USA or Europe then Australia becomes extremely expensive. Speak to some of British expats how they find things and they will tell you how expensive food is here. And compared to USA and Singapore, electronic items are vastly more expensive in Aus. If you visit any of the tech-geek websites you will see how many of them import their electronics directly from Singapore.

[candivw]

Jordy I also cannot understand the plane ticket story? Doesnt seem fair really.

[Johan du Toit]

Shame man in this cold weather that must suck.

I agree with Johan. As a percentage of salary in the exact same job in both countires, Aus comes out cheaper than RSA most of the time for odinary day to day expences. HOWEVER not in all departments. You have no idea how expensive it is to go a dentist in Aus. You have no idea how expensive it is to employ a lawyer at $380 / hour (not that I have needed one but still). To fly from JHB to Perth for a South African cost R7790 return. For the exact same day going the other way round cost $2000 for an Australian going to RSA. Bearing in mind it is the same blerry plane and same blerry company!!!!!!! Stupid blerry airlines ripoffs smucks. ................Now I forgot the point I was making.

Haven't been to the dentist in 20 years. Never used a lawyer before. Hopefully I don't need any of this soon...

Is it perhaps possible to buy the tickets from your SA bank account? Then I could simple transfer the money to my SA credit card and use that to purchase the ticket here? Why not?

[Johan du Toit]

No my hubby ( who is the main bread winner ) is in exactly the same job and same position level.

We have a fouton spare if you would like to borrow it?

No worries.... We borrowed mattresses. They are just on the floor. Makes no difference really how high you sleep off the ground.

[Superkruz]

I agree everyone is entitled to have an opinion but sometimes it is best to keep quiet if you are the "new kid on the block" and dont really have a clue what you are talking about - that's my opinion of people who come here and make seemingly informed statements about life in Australia. Johan reminds me of the kind of person who, before he even knows the names of everyone in the office, suggests radical changes to company strategy rather that keep quiet and get to know the environment.

Life here is definitely not cheap. Johan, I understand you feel things are cheap and that has been your experience. At the same time however you should take note of the opinions of others (who have been here much longer than you) that it might not be as you see it. I specifically disagree with the comment that Uni fees are low.... you clearly dont have a child at university.

Anyhow, good luck with settling into your new life.

[Superkruz]

Haven't been to the dentist in 20 years. Never used a lawyer before. Hopefully I don't need any of this soon...

Is it perhaps possible to buy the tickets from your SA bank account? Then I could simple transfer the money to my SA credit card and use that to purchase the ticket here? Why not?

It depends on where your flight originates, not where the bank account is that you use to pay the ticket. I checked it out last year and the plain simple truth is that it is much more expensive AUS-SA-AUS than SA-AUS-SA.

[Johan du Toit]

I agree everyone is entitled to have an opinion but sometimes it is best to keep quiet if you are the "new kid on the block" and dont really have a clue what you are talking about - that's my opinion of people who come here and make seemingly informed statements about life in Australia. Johan reminds me of the kind of person who, before he even knows the names of everyone in the office, suggests radical changes to company strategy rather that keep quiet and get to know the environment.

Life here is definitely not cheap. Johan, I understand you feel things are cheap and that has been your experience. At the same time however you should take note of the opinions of others (who have been here much longer than you) that it might not be as you see it. I specifically disagree with the comment that Uni fees are low.... you clearly dont have a child at university.

Anyhow, good luck with settling into your new life.

Thanks for your input. I'll take it as a valid statement when it is based on accounting principles and not just a your general feeling. Provide some examples or show me how my practical, real life examples was invalid. At the moment you simply sound mad because you did not manage your finances very well. Trust me that makes me mad too, but we are discussing a comparison between the affordability of SA against Aus here. I am trying to state the facts for those who are still coming. To do that you need to strip out everything else an make sure you make detailed comparisons.

In 5 years I will be moaning just as hard about how everything is so expensive, because I usually live beyond my means. That still does not make SA cheaper than Aus.

It is also worth noting that maybe Aus is not cheap, but it is cheaper than SA... if that makes you happy.

[Johan du Toit]

It depends on where your flight originates, not where the bank account is that you use to pay the ticket. I checked it out last year and the plain simple truth is that it is much more expensive AUS-SA-AUS than SA-AUS-SA.

Aaaah! Dammit! So much for that plan...

[Johan du Toit]

Johan reminds me of the kind of person who, before he even knows the names of everyone in the office, suggests radical changes to company strategy rather that keep quiet and get to know the environment.

I wish I was that type of person. Many companies desperately need such a person if they want to survive.

[Johan du Toit]

I specifically disagree with the comment that Uni fees are low.... you clearly dont have a child at university.

Shell I compare it to SA for us? How much do you pay for your kid and what does he\she study? How much is his\her government subsidized, low interest loan?... something he\she would not even qualify for in SA.

[Johan du Toit]

I agree that I have limited experience in living in Aus, but I have 3 years of experience in studying the differences between Aus and SA. That is definitely more valid for this forum. This forum is not about finances for Australians. It is more about finances for people who still need to decide or who have just arrived. Upsetting the few who have forgotten how hard life in SA was is the least of my concern. Motivating and presenting the facts to the poor soles left behind is what drives me. For that reason I will not keep quiet. I am tired of people making as if this place is expensive, when it is factually incorrect when compared to SA.

If money is not your main motivation for moving here, then why do you come over at all? If money was no problem, then why not just buy your safety, good schools, great service and world class health care in SA? Most cant, because it is not affordable. That is why we emigrate. Anyone who says otherwise must be arguing with their hart and not their mind.

That is the essence of my argument. Good night. Enough debate for me tonight. Master Chef is on! The only thing worth watching on free TV. Foxtel installation tomorrow... much cheaper than DsTV, I might ad.

[Orion25]

Hi Johan and everyone else,

I have been watching and following this post with much interest and Johan, seems like you have stirred up quite a hornets nest, however, you and everyone else are entitled to their opinions and for me, who is still in SA, I have alos done some homework on this subject and found the same conculsions that all of you come too, it depends on where you stay, what you earn and on what you spend your money as to how it will affect you personally.

For example I eat brown bread, you eat white bread, we both eat bread but not necessaryly costing the same etc etc same for housing.

The facts are this. 1) Immigration is costly. 2) Everybody has their own tastes in spending 3) Some people who have seriously battled to make ends meet in SA have done much better in OZ (I know some) and on the flip side some people battle.

What is good to see though is that yes JOhan you are enjoying the "cheaper" cost of living, and others say it is a honeymoon fase, whatever it is we all need to go into this with our eyes wide open, my mom always taught me expect the worst and hope for thebest, you could just be pleasantly surprised.

Johan i'm glad you are settling so well and I'm pleased for all the opinions raised here, but i truly do not think one should get personal as everyone is entitled to their opinions.

Just my 2c worth

O

[Johan du Toit]

but i truly do not think one should get personal as everyone is entitled to their opinions.

Just my 2c worth

O

I hope you are not referring to me? I tried very hard not to retaliate to Willem's personal attack. If you are talking about me, please quote the exact line.

[Orion25]

I hope you are not referring to me? I tried very hard not to retaliate to Willem's personal attack. If you are talking about me, please quote the exact line.

Joahn,

I'm talking to everyone, we are all entitled to our opinions and no-one needs to get personal about it. I'm really glad you are having a positive experience it's good to know they do happen. Not just regarding the freedom and safety but moneywise too, although it does seem to be the exception more that the rule.

Just enjoy yourself and settle well. I hope we do when we eventually arrive.

O

[Superkruz]

Shell I compare it to SA for us? How much do you pay for your kid and what does he\she study? How much is his\her government subsidized, low interest loan?... something he\she would not even qualify for in SA.

The fees for a second year BCom (Accounting) student at Tukkies are R25k for 2010 (UP fees) and student accommodation in a university residence (like Mopanie) is R29k (see here), including meals, giving an annual total of R54k. This is 14% of your R350k salary mentioned earlier.

At the University of Queensland a second year BCom (Accounting) student pays about $9k per year (my son takes extra subjects so I am paying roughly $10k and I can send you the receipts if you want to see it). On campus student accommodation this year (Kings College) is $16k, giving a total of $25k for the year. Using your current salary of $55k it would be 45% thereof. You would have to earn in excess of $170k for it to be 14% of your salary.

These amounts are after the government subsidy has been deducted and are the amounts I actually had to pay - not some theoretical amount.

I actually have a child at Uni, I pay the fees out of my own pocket, you dont do any of that, yet you have the audacity to challenge me on this.

I strongly suggest you do comprehensive research before making ill-informed statements on topics you know very little about.

[Johan du Toit]

Joahn,

I'm talking to everyone, we are all entitled to our opinions and no-one needs to get personal about it. I'm really glad you are having a positive experience it's good to know they do happen. Not just regarding the freedom and safety but moneywise too, although it does seem to be the exception more that the rule.

Just enjoy yourself and settle well. I hope we do when we eventually arrive.

O

No worries then. I would really appreciate it if you could edit your statement. It looks like you are reprimanding the wrong person, because your statement is made in a sentence directed at me.

[Superkruz]

Thanks for your input. I'll take it as a valid statement when it is based on accounting principles and not just a your general feeling.

Johan, I am only a Chartered Accountant (registered in South Africa & Australia) and I would be very glad if you would be so kind to enlighten me as to which specific accounting principle you had in mind here?

[Johan du Toit]

Using your current salary of $55k it would be 45% thereof. You would have to earn in excess of $170k for it to be 14% of your salary.

These amounts are after the government subsidy has been deducted and are the amounts I actually had to pay - not some theoretical amount.

There is flaws in your argument and subsequent rant.

1) You base your calculation on my salary of $55k. It should be on $120k.

2) You act as if that negates my whole argument when it only shows that I did not think one little word through. "uni" Thanks for the information though. I never cared to work that out in detail, since my boy is 3 years old.

In the end Uni cost almost the same as in SA. Hardly enough reason to call SA cheap compared to Aus.

[Superkruz]

At the moment you simply sound mad because you did not manage your finances very well.

Johan,

(a) you don't know me at all, and ( you don't have any idea about the state of my finances or how I manage it.

Unlike you, I don't discuss my personal finances with strangers on forums like these.

I strongly suggest you refrain from making irrelevant comments that don't add any value to the discussion.

[Johan du Toit]

Johan, I am only a Chartered Accountant (registered in South Africa & Australia) and I would be very glad if you would be so kind to enlighten me as to which specific accounting principle you had in mind here?

My bad. I'll call it a logical thought then.

Why do some of you choose to attack me instead of arguing the facts? Is the thought of SA actually being an expensive place just to much to bare? Why is it so bluddy upsetting?

You just made a great argument about Uni. Fantastic! Now I and, more importantly, everyone else knows that even with Government subsidy, uni is slightly more expensive here. Luckily that part will interest me in 14 years only.

[Johan du Toit]

Johan,

(a) you don't know me at all, and ( you don't have any idea about the state of my finances or how I manage it.

Unlike you, I don't discuss my personal finances with strangers on forums like these.

I strongly suggest you refrain from making irrelevant comments that don't add any value to the discussion.

Yes, and you insult me again and I'll byte you right back. Great fun!

[Superkruz]

There is flaws in your argument and subsequent rant.

1) You base your calculation on my salary of $55k. It should be on $120k.

2) You act as if that negates my whole argument when it only shows that I did not think one little word through. "uni" Thanks for the information though. I never cared to work that out in detail, since my boy is 3 years old.

In the end Uni cost almost the same as in SA. Hardly enough reason to call SA cheap compared to Aus.

Johan, using the $120k you suggested

$25k = 21% of $120k, which means it is 50% more than in SA (21% vs 14%)

The thing is that you make wild statements (such as the Uni one) as if it is a fact, yet you dont even care about it as your child is only 3. People reading this then get the wrong impression.... and that is what we are trying to say. Nothing personal mate, just sound advice.

[Superkruz]

Johan, I'm going to bed now... we can continue the discussion tomorrow.