Is Perth or Australia this bad ...

[IamInACT]

I don't know the full story ... but People I know have returned to SA after 3 months, He had a job in the Gov. They have made statements like:

1. The Government is so corrupt.

2. Far too much drugs, they picked up many needles.

3. You are not encouraged to think out the box ... if you are a train driver that's all you will ever be...

I'm going to ACT but hell this does not impress my wife ... don't wanna go from hell to purgatory.... I was looking to be a little closer to heaven ...

[Lyn]

Eva, they confusing chicken bones with needles girl !!!

My opinion, they did not have the guts, determination, positive attitude, that is needed to make this move. Easier to whinge -

[Ladyfingers]

1 - Corrupt Government

What? Compared to SA? Gimme a f-ing break. Australia's corrupt compared to SA. Ahahaha!

Yeah, no.

2 - Drugs

I'm not the right one to ask because I have unusual political views on the matter. I'm not pro-drugs, but I'm totally anti-prohibition and to me the problem in Australia is that drug enforcement is over the top (except in Adelaide where you can grow your own pot, so good for them). In my experience, enforcement with guns and dogs causes more hassles than pathetic junkies bumming change off you. I ignore the junkies.

The "sharps" bins are ostensibly there for diabetics and other self-medicators who need hypodermics, but obviously the main thing is that it gets contaminated needles off the floor.

3 - Not encouraged to think out of the box.

Australia works because the people here are cooperative. You might say overly passive, but I prefer that to in-your-face-taking-charge types desperate to slot you into their plans to make more money than you. Change happens over time because of social consensus. South Africans are very often aggressive, snobbish, greedy and impatient bullies and that is not socially tolerated here. I'm not aware of how the kind of people who did well in SA must feel when confronted with this culture because I wasn't one of them. I feel far more comfortable here than there.

The guy sounds like a bit of a w-nker, to be honest.

[CandiceM]

Look I would also be pretty peeved if my contract was downgraded when I got here by $35K. Was it in writing or a verbal promise...because lets be honest all over the world you will get con man. If you are gullible enough to move 8000km on the say so of someone any nothing in contract form well then the jokes on him.

1. Drugs, MASSIVE problem, I think though that this was his first trip to Aus and the shock of the needle bins and the UV lights made the problem HUGE. He also said whilst they have fantastic park facilities you can't use them as you will get poked by needles.

Ummm NO! Yes there is a drug problem here, but so is there one in SA. Australia is NOT utopia, but it is a damn fine place to live which offers many people a relatively crime free life to raise their children. I for one am happy there is needle bins in bathrooms, prevents me from stepping on them when I go to them...how many saffers in SA will still even use public facilities? As for them strewn around parks...UMM NO again, I have visited parks in WA and ACT and have yet to see, needles or even used condoms...which in SA I have seen in parking lots, public bathrooms etc. The parks are very safe, in fact I hosted a baby shower at one smack bang in the Canberra city centre, and there wasn't even a piece of rubbish I could see never mind a used needle.

2. Crime, HUGE, In Aus the press is "barred" from reporting crime and they don't report on rape, only "penetration with out consent". He likened it to the pre 1994 government control of the media, and referred to the Bike Path' Attackers in Brisbane.

Crime in Australia ...yes. Crime HUGE in Australia..well thats subjective as too what you feel is huge...me personally I don't think its huge. Crime in Australia compared to SA...well its not even on the map! The Bike Path Attacker assualted 11 women in 2 years and got 25 YEARS in jail. He was caught and justice was served...how often can you say that in SA. There is no doubt crime in Australia, but I feel safe walking down city streets and leaving my windowns open in my house when I go out, my doors unlocked when I drive, and walking at dusk around my neighbourhood. Most crimes I hear of, on the news...which does report them... are nearly all crimes that were perpatrated by people known to the victim, bikie gand crime or involving crime families.

3. He blames Saffers for the the plight of the 457 visa holders returning to SA. exSaffers are recruiting Saffers for commission only to allow them to be later.

Unfortunately I have heard of ex saffers that have taken advantage of saffers arriving in Oz. Its bound to happen given the nature of people, but honestly if someone sold you the same story about moving from Joburg to CapeTwon ...would you buy it. Been caught up in a con often happens when we are so desperate or greedy to investigate the promises someone is making...if thats so and you moved you entiire family here on the say so of someone then you only have yourself to blame.

4. He was also of the opinion that most Saffers want to come home but are all TOO proud to pack for Pretoria and rather suffer then return home. He also said that we have a fear of returning home and having to start from scratch again.

Hell NO!!! Never going back even though I miss my family desperately, got nothing to do with pride...probally more self preservation, which is why we moved here in the first place...and now it has to do with the fact Australia is my home...(although we are not sure of where in Australia that is for the moment )

This guy has obviously been burnt badly and sounds very bitter. AT the end of the day we all have to do whats rght for us and our families, he obviously feels returning to SA was the best thing for them...but he is not speaking from a very objective place...and that is sad bacause he is painting a very unrealistic picture of what Australia is through a bitter viewpoint.

candice

[elleneo]

We have been in melbourne 3 months now..the first 6 weeks we were in st kilda...the red light district with lots of weird and wonderful artists,muso's and so on...even a weed smell wafting down the passage in the flats we stayed in..and i never saw a needle...my daughter and i palyed in the nearby parks...never saw a needle...walked on the beach..no needles...

There is a graffiti problem in some areas and they are warning people not to leave valuables in their cars...that being said..we forgot our garage open last last night for the first time and not a single thing is missing!

Everyone justifies their decisions to themselves...and like laura says, immi is not for everyone...let him badmouth oz for all its worth, we at least still here in the land of milk and honey!

[Laura-Michelle]

In the end of the day, it is a very personal matter. Immigration is tough - and you have to be 100% committed to the process. We love it here for the most part, have some "off days" still and of course, you miss family and friends, and that sense of familiarity at times. We have been here for almost 18 months now. We have come a looong way since when we first arrived but blending into a new culture will take time. It is not for everyone - and I can totally understand how hard it can be for those who have deep roots at home.

South Africa is a beautiful country, so is Australia. Over all, the people are friendly and the nature is gorgeous. What we love about it is that we can enjoy the beauty without fear of attack or danger and that our kiddo is safe. I'm sure some people in South Africa feel safe in SA as well, we didnt - it all comes down to your personal experience.

Just as much as we have loved the Australian experience so far, I am sure there are many who werent as fortunate and for whom immigration turned out to be a nightmare, especially with the hit of the GFC etc. My heart goes out to them. It is hard enough without the extra stress and pressure. Good luck to all of us!

[IamInACT]

Totally off-topic: I have seen the UV lights in public toilets. I thought Aus was just funky...but I guess not. What are they for?

They are to prevent the junkies from shooting in their veins ...

[Jordy]

Totally off-topic: I have seen the UV lights in public toilets. I thought Aus was just funky...but I guess not. What are they for?

[rozellem]

Good riddance. I bet this guy has a imaginary friend he talks to.

[IamInACT]

So I got to actually talked to the guy that was saying these things over the weekend and he could not stop slating Australia. His wife too.

He went on a 457 and was offered a contract for 120K at a Job just past Rockingham. When he got there, the Company wanted to move him 200Km from that location at 85K per year. So he was , it appears.

He does not know that I am moving but these are some of the the things he had to say to me:

1. Drugs, MASSIVE problem, I think though that this was his first trip to Aus and the shock of the needle bins and the UV lights made the problem HUGE. He also said whilst they have fantastic park facilities you can't use them as you will get poked by needles.

2. Crime, HUGE, In Aus the press is "barred" from reporting crime and they don't report on rape, only "penetration with out consent". He likened it to the pre 1994 government control of the media, and referred to the Bike Path' Attackers in Brisbane.

3. He blames Saffers for the the plight of the 457 visa holders returning to SA. exSaffers are recruiting Saffers for commission only to allow them to be later.

4. He was also of the opinion that most Saffers want to come home but are all TOO proud to pack for Pretoria and rather suffer then return home. He also said that we have a fear of returning home and having to start from scratch again.

But having dealt with him before he went over to Aus, I can see why he is being this way. Difficult chap but again everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

[Davem]

Hi, can you PM me at the following e-mail: nadd@telkomsa.net We have our PR and would like some more info on Perth. We were there 2 weeks ago to validat e our visas.

Thanks

Natasha & David

Cape Town

We have been in Perth amost one year now.

1. In my profession, we work a lot with government and from my experience, these guys follow the rules to a sometimes annoying extreme. I have not witnessed even the slightest hint of corruption in any form.

2. Drugs - not too sure about this. I have never ever seen a single needle and we frequent the beaches, parks etc often with our kid. I doubt whether the drug problems here are any greater or lesser than in SA.

3. Again - I have had the opposite experience here. You are encouraged and expected to want to advance and climb corporate ladders etc. Just today, I mentioned to my one boss that I was thinking of doing another related degree to my profession. He immediately told me that the company had all sorts of policies of time off and financial support etc as this is very encouraged. I was really surprised by this, but according to my boss, it is the norm here.

One thing about Perth though - re thinking out of the box - it is not that it is not encouraged, it is just that the Perth attitude to "change" is not to rush into anything. This has earned Perth the affectionate title of "Dullsville" by the cities over-east. It can be very frustrating sometimes, but it does have very good spin-offs, for example, the laid-back, relaxed Perth lifestyle.

[Shaun en Sylvia]

Eva, they confusing chicken bones with needles girl !!!

My opinion, they did not have the guts, determination, positive attitude, that is needed to make this move. Easier to whinge -

I have been here on and off two years now --My wife and kids two weeks and they love it so far. True ..if you dont come here with a positive attitude and only look at the negative side I am sure you WON'T make it. It is hard making that decision and harder still to say goodbye to everybody back home. At the end of the day my kids have a future to look forward to.

[Eva]

Eva, they confusing chicken bones with needles girl !!!

Ha, ha, so right!!

[rozellem]

Oh yeah, we went to Manly Beach on Sun morning to watch husband surf and I test drove all the public toilets in the area (baby sitting on bladder) and they were absolutely spotless, every last one, like in sparkling. Yes, who in RSA still use public loos!? Anyway, hubby is extremely scatty and walking back to the car (with surfboard on roof rack) he couldnt find the car keys in his pockets. Only to find them in the ignition of the completely unlocked car! My visiting aunt commented that we have become way to soft to ever go back to live in RSA, they would have us for breakfast.

[Voortrekker]

I have lived in Durban my whole life and spend many, many hours on the Durban beachfront and I have never seen a needle there before I left RSA.

The only place I have seen needles lying around in Sydney was in Kings Cross. For those who don't know Sydney, Kings Cross is a red-light district in Sydney. It is kinda like Hillbrow (Johannesburg) used to be 30 years ago, except you can walk through Kings Cross quite safely late at night - provided you don't step in something nasty in a dark park. But frankly, you're more likely to step into a bus full of tourists. Last time I checked there was a legal injection centre in Kings Cross, where all the left-overs are taken care of.

So if you know where to look, you will find needles (like in most cities). In Sydney, Kings Cross, Redfern and Cabramatta comes to mind. But not nearly as many as you would find in, say, the lower east side of Vancouver (Canada). (I used to work in the Kings Cross for a health organisation, and near Redfern for a university. Both suburbs are safer than, say, East Vancouver, but none of the above are anything even remotely close to, say, Yeoville, Jhb).

As for the rest, I have already commented on that.

[IamInACT]

Thanks for the support and comments

[Taegan]

Been in Perth close on 2 years now and I have NEVER seen a needle lying around. That's not to say that there aren't drugs around as I'm sure that there are, but I have not seen any evidence ... ever. Perhaps he was living in a particulary dodgy area?

Over the past 2 years we have met many, many Saffers and have only heard of 1 family that have left. These people who went back after a few months because the wife couldn't hack not having a maid to pick up after her! Instead of polishing her nails all day she actually had to do some cleaning .. horror of horrors!

Guarenteed that when they got back to SA that was not mentioned as the reason! Hey .. maybe they are the same people

[Eva]

2. Needles, drugs..?? Tell your mate to walk on Durban beachfront or JHB CBD. Obviously if they picked up needles they were busy looking for them! I have never seen one.

I have lived in Durban my whole life and spend many, many hours on the Durban beachfront and I have never seen a needle there before I left RSA.

[bluegill]

I don't know the full story ... but People I know have returned to SA after 3 months, He had a job in the Gov. They have made statements like:

1. The Government is so corrupt.

2. Far too much drugs, they picked up many needles.

3. You are not encouraged to think out the box ... if you are a train driver that's all you will ever be...

I'm going to ACT but hell this does not impress my wife ... don't wanna go from hell to purgatory.... I was looking to be a little closer to heaven ...

In our second year in Perth now:

My view:

1. What a load of hogwash. There may be individuals that are corrupt, who knows, but believe me you can see where your Tax money is spent here!

2. Needles, drugs..?? Tell your mate to walk on Durban beachfront or JHB CBD. Obviously if they picked up needles they were busy looking for them! I have never seen one.

3. Quite the opposite, the schools here encourage out of the box thinking & their approach is good. At least here you still have apprenctices where knowledge is passed on.

3 months, that is a holiday period. I bet your mate is in the queue to come back.

[Bob]

Australia doesn't need, nor does it want, migrants who aren't happy.

I can't really take the comments of migrants seriously who pack up in 3 months and trek off home again.

They have just got over the "holiday period"

Geez!

I've heard of a Pom who took a taxi ride from the airport into Melbourne, didn't get out and drove straight back to the airport to board a plane for the U.K.

How seriously do you take the comments from some of these characters?

Not much.

[Hangel]

I have been living in Perth for almost 3 months now and I agree with the oldies that at this point in time I cannot understand the political structure and goings on in general. I am overwhelmed by the newness of it all but at the same time I am very happy and so grateful for being here!When you make this move you have to be prepared to be the new kid on the block-have an open mind because things are done differently here than what we are used to but not neccesarily in a bad way. After 3 months I personally haven't seen any drugs or drug related items although I'm sure(as in any other country in the world) there are unfortunate people addicted to it.From what I can see so far there is a lot of assistance available in a lot of different areas for people who need it,including financial,health and educational areas so if you want to do something other than "being a traindriver" I'm sure you could! I have lived in two subburbs so far and each of them had community recreational centres where all kinds of different activities are offered. For a minute there the other night I was upset because there was a report on the news regarding a highjacking and then it hit me!In South Africa things like highjackings,murder,rape etc are very seldom reported on the news because there are too many of it happening every day.In Australia though each incident gets reported and shocks the community because it is not a way of life like we were used to in South Africa. There is a sense of freedom here that we have lost a long time ago.

In my opinion you need to be in a place for at least 2 years before you've adapted sufficiently to make a judgement about the place,don't give up too soon.

My advise to those who are contemplating the move :keep an open mind at all times,things are different and it is up to you to become familiar with it.

:watch,listen and learn because you are the new kid on the block initially.No-one likes a house guest who wants to tell them how to run their household and bring up their kids if you understand what I mean. We all start out as guests in this country!

:make up your mind prior to coming. Before I left South Africa I have decided that I am going to make a new life for myself here and be happy come hell or high water and that is what I am going to do.For me there is no "if I don't like it I'll go back to RSA".

One thing I can tell you-I regret not doing this in 2000 when the thought first crossed my mind!For those who think I am still in the honeymoon phase,well maybe you are right.I have made this move completely on my own with no family here and knowing only 2 people(of which one I get the feeling would rather return to RSA but in my opinion the white-bread-under-the-arm-principle most likely apply) and despite the fact that I have an almost zero support structure I still love Perth!

[Alibaba]

We live in Melbourne and have been here for 18 months. As said previously the perfect country does not exist. Some people just don't seem to fit into the Australian lifestyle, and (personal opinion) just give up too easily when things don't go their way.

In my job I am challenged on a daily basis to think outside the box as I work in clinical research. I've never seen needles laying around anywhere and I'm sure drugs are around.

What is wrong with being a bus driver, or sweeping the floor? I have several degrees, but I will NEVER look down on those people. This is an SA attitude we have. They are all human beings providing for their families by doing an honest job. What's wrong with that?

Yes, things are different, not necessarily worse or better. The world rankings shows where Aus vs SA is, you don't need to be Einstein to figure it out for yourself.

We have friends who left Aus after 3 months, juts to return to Aus after 3 months back in SA realising they made a huge mistake by going back. At the end of the day each person must make their own decisions and take responsibility for it. If you are happy and want it to work, stay, if not, then leave, because then you will just be a burden to yourself and everyone around you. Sorry to be so blunt, but I am tired of people leaving SA because it is so bad, to land in Aus and then start complaining about everything that is wrong here too. Rather look at the glass half full than half empty, a positive attitude will also help you settle easier.

I am not planning on going back, we love it here, despite the long and cold Melbourne winters.

[Rajesh]

This is just a justification of his decisions - probably feeling too embarassed to admit that he cannot make it in the open world or he has to work to earn his money or he is just not capable of change.

My non existent 1 cent worth !

[Tookie]

I am personally very happy in Australia, but I have to agree with the above statement to a certain extent.

I have witnessed on several occasions how highly qualified engineers in my profession have been very rudely discouraged from "thinking out the box" even though their solutions were clearly cheaper, quicker

and far more practical.

In my opinion countries like Australia, the USA etc. were built and developed by fresh, innovative ideas from migrants (and locals) and there are definitely managers who are guilty of the above statement.

I have no government experience, so can't comment on that.

[Doran]

3. You are not encouraged to think out the box ... if you are a train driver that's all you will ever be...

I am personally very happy in Australia, but I have to agree with the above statement to a certain extent.

I have witnessed on several occasions how highly qualified engineers in my profession have been very rudely discouraged from "thinking out the box" even though their solutions were clearly cheaper, quicker

and far more practical.

In my opinion countries like Australia, the USA etc. were built and developed by fresh, innovative ideas from migrants (and locals) and there are definitely managers who are guilty of the above statement.

I have no government experience, so can't comment on that.