Is Perth or Australia this bad ...

[IamInACT]

I don't know the full story ... but People I know have returned to SA after 3 months, He had a job in the Gov. They have made statements like:

1. The Government is so corrupt.

2. Far too much drugs, they picked up many needles.

3. You are not encouraged to think out the box ... if you are a train driver that's all you will ever be...

I'm going to ACT but hell this does not impress my wife ... don't wanna go from hell to purgatory.... I was looking to be a little closer to heaven ...

[Enrica]

I don't know the full story ... but People I know have returned to SA after 3 months, He had a job in the Gov. They have made statements like:

1. The Government is so corrupt.

2. Far too much drugs, they picked up many needles.

3. You are not encouraged to think out the box ... if you are a train driver that's all you will ever be...

I'm going to ACT but hell this does not impress my wife ... don't wanna go from hell to purgatory.... I was looking to be a little closer to heaven ...

I am just going to say that ........do you honestly beleive that anyone can make such profound statements as above after 3 months in a country?

Really, 3 months and he is an absolute expert on the situation and politics in Australia.

1) There is a certain amount of corruption in any government in the world.............just look at who is the new President in South Africa.

2) The Australian Government has an active policy of actually collecting "needles" , I think its very admireble that a government actually does not hide their head in the sand.

3) Not encouraged to think out of the box....................poppy cock is all I can say. But once again this person is an expert after 3 monts wow!!

[Tookie]

"On a positive note, at least there are the opportunities for the challenged academic or less ambitious person to earn a living, ie train drivers, street sweepers etc. "

The above statement is a bit offensive. Not everyone with an top resume wants a career. I have friends with degrees who prefer to do work outside. I think we as Saffers need to look at our own attitudes towards different kinds of employment as I find that we are very quick to judge others on there choices. It is not a ambition it is a case of money isn't everything. If you come to Oz with the wrong perception and attitude you will be going home just as quickly. Don't take notice of other people, it is different for everyone.

Good Luck

Steph

Don't mean to offend people in anyway with the above statement, rather to put across that there are work opportunites for everyone living in Australia.

[Gizmo]

I don't know the full story ... but People I know have returned to SA after 3 months, He had a job in the Gov. They have made statements like:

1. The Government is so corrupt.

2. Far too much drugs, they picked up many needles.

3. You are not encouraged to think out the box ... if you are a train driver that's all you will ever be...

I'm going to ACT but hell this does not impress my wife ... don't wanna go from hell to purgatory.... I was looking to be a little closer to heaven ...

We have been in Perth amost one year now.

1. In my profession, we work a lot with government and from my experience, these guys follow the rules to a sometimes annoying extreme. I have not witnessed even the slightest hint of corruption in any form.

2. Drugs - not too sure about this. I have never ever seen a single needle and we frequent the beaches, parks etc often with our kid. I doubt whether the drug problems here are any greater or lesser than in SA.

3. Again - I have had the opposite experience here. You are encouraged and expected to want to advance and climb corporate ladders etc. Just today, I mentioned to my one boss that I was thinking of doing another related degree to my profession. He immediately told me that the company had all sorts of policies of time off and financial support etc as this is very encouraged. I was really surprised by this, but according to my boss, it is the norm here.

One thing about Perth though - re thinking out of the box - it is not that it is not encouraged, it is just that the Perth attitude to "change" is not to rush into anything. This has earned Perth the affectionate title of "Dullsville" by the cities over-east. It can be very frustrating sometimes, but it does have very good spin-offs, for example, the laid-back, relaxed Perth lifestyle.

[sbhennops]

"On a positive note, at least there are the opportunities for the challenged academic or less ambitious person to earn a living, ie train drivers, street sweepers etc. "

The above statement is a bit offensive. Not everyone with an top resume wants a career. I have friends with degrees who prefer to do work outside. I think we as Saffers need to look at our own attitudes towards different kinds of employment as I find that we are very quick to judge others on there choices. It is not a ambition it is a case of money isn't everything. If you come to Oz with the wrong perception and attitude you will be going home just as quickly. Don't take notice of other people, it is different for everyone.

Good Luck

Steph

[LucyG]

Ok _ I am on the Gold Coast, not Perth, and have only been here a short while, but can honesty say that I LOVE this country incredibly already. There is no "utopia" anywhere, but in my book, we have come within spitting distance of it where we are:

on a lake in the Gold Coast

kids playgrounds every couple of kms, safe, no lurkers waiting to do you harm

beach less than 3 kms away

mountains 15 minutes drive away

water in the Lake is clear and clean (not heavily polluted with sewerage, indutrial waste, chemicals, plastics etc), full of fish and bird life is abundant - from herons, to ducks, seagulls, pellicans etc

fish jumping out of the water all day and all night

beautiful clean beaches

excellent health care for free

helpful, efficient people everywhere to deal with

everything works

I could go on, but you have to see it to believe it. I would be rich if I had a dollar for every negative comment told to me by Saffers back home about Australia/Autralians - total Bullshit!!! But I guess you take the weather with you - if you seek out the negative, sure enough, you will find it.

I feel that our quality of life is 300% better here, and we were perfectly happy in SA too, just concerned about the future. Even if you took crime out of the equation completely, I would still choose to be here and just feel incredibly lucky to be allowed to live here.

My 2 cents!

Lucille

[Michele R]

I have family living in Perth and they are extremely happy.

The kids can play outside until late without the parents worrying, they go to the beach and almost every weekend they're off exploring the surrounding area.

I think it's all about whether or not you arrive in Aus with a positive outlook. If you're negative, you'll only see things that are negative. It's easy to forget that things in SA are much worse when you're trying to see the negatives in another country. I've noticed over the years that the Saffers who arrive willing to make things work end up being the happiest.

[Preacher]

Laughable. If I am not mistaken, DIAC has statistics that show only 1.5% of South Africans return to South Africa?

As for the corruption in government, how someone can compare Australia to South Africa is beyond me.

The drugs? I guess the tic tic epidemic in South Africa is a figment of our imagination. Drugs are everywhere, but to think that South Africa is drug free is retarded.

For people who cant think out the box, they sure have done quite well to create this

http://www.news.com.au/travel/story/0,2831...4-27978,00.html

Australia ranks 2nd in the world for standard of living, only behind Norway, according to the United Nations. South Africa rates 129th. They are behind Palestine and Tajikistan.

Each to their own. Immigration is not for everyone and its not easy to leave friends, family and familiarity at all. Its easier often to stay in South Africa or go back for many who will then cite ridiculous reasons like government corruption or the Australian attitude as reasons for their decision to head back to South Africa.

[Antoinette]

... if you are a train driver that's all you will ever be...

There is your revealing answer... "That is all you will ever be"... My goodness. He needs a serious attitude adjustment befor he will fit in here. Here the guy who works with his hands is not looked down upon. Absolutely nothing wrong with an honest day's work. (In comparison with politics which reeks)

"The working class man".... An Ozzie-origin song. Google it.

Remember, South Africa is an upside down world full of slippery slopes. A doggie-dog world. He probably feels corruption only becomes corruption when he does not benefit from it.

Don't lose sweat about his remarks.

Edit...

OK, here is a link to the song

http://www.take40.com/player/yahoo?t=945.3

"...An honest man in a complicated land.."

Just be honest and do not seek attention. That is all they ask. Think you can do it?

[Pretorius]

We have been in Adelaide since 20 August.

I have NOT seen a single needle or any evidence of drug taking.

I HAVE seen some idiots spinning their cars, I am annoyed with people leaving grafiti everywhere.

I have HEARD (from a very upset conductor on the tram) about people drinking so much that they threw up in public places... they did not go on stealing sprees, etc...

I have seen the Police deal with people who drove above the speedlimit, no tollerance means exactly that.

Fortunately I have many other things to do today, so I won't go into my experience in South Africa.

Anyone who claims there is more corruption in Aus than in South Africa simply needs a brain implant.

While applying for jobs in Australia I have been declined for many positions for reasons other than my skin colour, I have even been declined for fairly junior positions and have been asked by the same employer during the same process but afterwards to apply for a more senior position as my profile fits that better. The bus driver remains a bus driver probably out of choice...

Life is very different in Aus when compared to South Africa; however YOU choose what your life will be like in Aus. In SA we had A swimmingpool, my kids had A large yard to play in, my kids had A sandpit and A jungle gym.

In Aus we have a very small place that we rent, but we have MANY unique, free and SAFE PLACES for my kids to ENJOY with others. This equates to so much more than I could buy and stash at my home in South Africa.

Different? Yes

Worse? No way!

[KathyW]

I agree that I think the people who do return with bad attitudes have not even tried to fit in and make it their new home.

We are in Perth now for 18 months, and I must admit that the stresses of living in South Africa are so different to the stresses that we have experienced since we immigrated to Australia. But there is just no comparison at all of the SA stress of if and when we would become victims of crime, to the Aussie stress of "fitting in", new food products, which schools, where to live.

If I look back now over the 18 months, my husband wanted to pack up many many times but I have had to have a strong and positive attitude and remind him of the crime and our children have had a much better opportunity for them here compared to South African.

For a perfect example, my son who was 19 when we came was not sure what career path or studying he wanted to do so got himself a temp job at a very well known nursery in Perth, yip he is a glorified "garden boy" who drives tractors and sorts out Plants for the Nurseries around Perth, he supplements his not too bad income at all doing Pizza deliveries on the weekend's, in fact sometimes he earns more than my hubby.

So the opportunities are so open but I don't think many SA people want to just do something different to what they are used to, to keep their survival kit up.

We have bought a house, live near the beach, my daughter walks the dogs, we go late night shopping, I can hang my washing out without a worry if somebody will get through the back door and grab me when I get into the house.

But yes, there are definately stresses here which are different, but I think if you have a good network of friends to help you through, you can do it!!!!!

My 2 Dollars worth!!!

[zetman]

Can't add much other than to agree with everything said thus far.

Politicians will be politicians, but blanketly saying the place is of full of corruption, no way. The system here works as good as one can expect - in fact John Della Bosca (ex-Health Minister of NSW) was pretty much forced to resign due to an embarrasing little scandal with his secretary the other day. There wasn't any "I was only trying to protect the little girl nonsense". He stood up, admitted that he stuffed up and resigned.

In terms of drugs, I've lived in Perth for more than a year now and have not seen a single needle lying around. Sure, if you go look for it you'll find it easily enough...but that's no different in SA.

The thinking out of the box one is interesting. For me Australian society (and the UK where we lived before for that matter) place a greater emphasis on specialisation. Everybody has a skill and forms a spoke in the wheel - the combined benefit is greater than the sum of the components. That doesn't mean creativity or initiative is opressed though, you just need to know how to channel your energy. And here in lies my one thought on this matter. If you come from SA expecting to change Ausies to do things your way you will hit resistence. I found it took a while to gain the confidence and respect of collegues and peers. Its important to have an open mind and to be willing to adapt to a different environment. When I hear people make comments like the "You are not encouraged to think out the box" one I often wonder if there is not rather a little element of "I tried to make everybody see it my way and the Ausies didn't like that and rejected my inputs so I got upset and went back to SA"...

Anyway, its speculation I guess. Everybody's journey is different, for some it works out, for other it doesn't. I don't agree with people who go back and bad-mouth the place though, that's just not right.

[Almost Aussie]

Interesting how different people experience Perth/Aus in such a short time. A mate of mine came over in July 2008 on a 457 visa. He had a kid in matric back in SA and decided his wife will stay behind until December 2008 after the exams and results are out. She did however visit Perth in September 2008 for a week to see what it’s like living here. Nevertheless his family joined him in early Dec 2008 and his wife a bad Xmas experience as she was used to have all her family around her for Xmas but got over it very quickly. A month later in Mid Jan 2009 he got the bad news that he’s lost his job and had to return to SA. This after only having their container here for 2 weeks. They had no option but to pack the container again and were all back in SA by end of Jan 2009 and after many tears, especially the kids as didn’t want to leave Aus. He was also very sad to leave and his wife was about 50/50. After being back in SA for two months and seeing the country again with comparison to Aus, she said they are sorry they never tried harder to find alternative jobs but it was in the GFC peak time and had no option but to return. My wife got an email from them on the weekend stating they might get an ENS PR and are so excited on the possibilities of returning to Perth.

The moral of their story is after all the expenses and trouble they had in moving here and back again, only to be excited and willing to go through all of that again for freedom!

[Eva]

I don't work for the government, I don't work at all so perhaps am not qualified to comment, but very much doubt there is that much corruption and not in a million years would it be worse than RSA!

Sure there are drugs, but the (same corrupt) government offers a tidy solution to needles lying around.....

(This in the public toilets in Brisbane, South Bank)

With regards to not thinking out of the box, I think there is an element of truth in that perhaps. In my opinon, people do not appear to be as driven to succeed as in South Africa. Is that a good thing or a bad thing or just a different thing? There are certainly a lot more opportunities here, at least you can get a job as a traindriver.

I think these people are justifying their return to South Africa.

Take whatever is said, good and bad, about Australia with a pinch of salt. Everyone's experiences and opions are different.

For me personally, my move has been closer to heaven, I just spent a long weekend in Paradise ~ otherwise known as Moreton Island ~ and it was only a few hours away!!

[Janneman]

Many South Africans have a strange way of looking at things. When you tell them how well your adopted country is treating you, then you must be lying. Jealousy perhaps? Envy?

However, those who return and tell tall tales just to save face, are believed - no questions asked.

I've always maintained that telling the truth will get you branded a liar by a large portion of society; spin them a yarn and they easily believe you.

I get the impression that South Africans are systematically brainwashed to believe that all the other countries in the world are crap. If it's not too expensive, it's too dangerous. Oh, a favourite one: "It's too cold!"

[Nilo]

We didn't grow up in Australia. We have to learn from scratch and it's not easy. Nothing you thought you knew is exactly the same, it's similar but not the same.

Yes, there are days that you get a little irritated because it feels as if the Aussies want to reinvent the wheel and don't realy want to hear how you used to do it. (even if it is better) That is understandable, put the shoe on the other foot! Remember how we called the Rhodesians "When we's"!

Personally I feel there's very little accountability and people here want to blame whom ever they can find for what ever they want to.

Safety in the work place is in my opinion, overkill. But does that not prove that you are being looked after well.

It's very frustrating (to me) that many Australians just don't appreciate the near Utopia they live in.

As far as the Govenment goes, everything here is open for inspection. Freedom of speach is truly practiced, no holds barred. I feel that this sometimes hampers decision making.

And another thing ..... how on earth can PINK Cream Soda taste the same as GREEN? LOL ! And those damn tolley's Eish!! Hie hie hie

So to sum up everything. Suck it up mate and adapt!! Australia is NOT South Africa!! It's never been and it never will be and it's not supposed to be!

We have an Afrikaans saying- "Jy kla met 'n wit brood onder jou arm!" So stop moaning fit in or f- off!! (sorry a little crude but totally the truth)

Aussie! Aussie! Aussie! Oi! Oi! Oi!

[Mara]

It is easier to blame Australia than to admit that you made the wrong decision at the wrong time, I think their comments are all about saving face!

[IamInACT]

An element of truth in these statements, but not entirely accurate.

Thanks a million ... Please could you explain?

[Yvonne]

1. Corrupt goverment - Not even the State government can get something like late night trading passed through parliament if the public doesn't want it

2. Needles - never seen any myself, but sure I would find it if I was hanging around dodgy areas

3. Strange, my husband and I have both made career changes in the last few months.

An element of truth in these statements, but not entirely accurate.

[Voortrekker]

We all battle in the begining but Australia is still the best place to live in.

By coincidence I have just paged through the on-line Canadian newspapers, as I do everyday, and saw this in today's headlines: Canada ranks fourth in quality of life. Quick extracts:

"Norway enjoys the world's highest quality of life ...

Norway was followed by Australia and Iceland on the list, which drew on statistics dating from 2007, before Iceland was hit hard by the global economic crisis. Canada was listed fourth."

Now I have not been to Iceland (yet), but have lived in Canada for many years, in Australia for donkey's years, and have spent last January in Norway. So I reckon the "Annual Human Development Index" sums it up. Btw, if you follow the link in the article, South Africa comes out at #129 out of 182 countries. (Lots of detail to be found there). My 2c to be added to "bollocks".

[Cyberdeth]

Just a couple of cents from my side. Granted I'm not there yet either, but I did visit Perth for a week.

1. Corrupt governments are everywhere. But let's look at the infrastructure of the two governments. SA, roads and general infrastructure is in disarray. Aus, sure they spend $250 000 on a school with only 1 pupil in it, but at least they are spending money on schools (LOL).

2. Drugs. Has this dude ever walked around the middle of johannesburg ? At night ?!?!? I would really like to know where they hanged out to see all the needles everywhere. Sure drugs is a reality. Just as in any other country.

3. It's called specialisation. Jack of all trades, master of none would be his forte. Sure you specialise in a profession, but saying that once you are a train driver, that's all you'll ever be ?!?!? I very much doubt it. I'm pretty sure you can go and study for something else and go and work in a different industry. That's like saying, once you are a waiter, you can't become a CEO.

[Diveup]

Hi,

I have been in South Africa since thursday and I miss Australia already. Everybody has their problems but for me the biggest wake up call was to visit South Africa after 10 months in Australia. We all battle in the begining but Australia is still the best place to live in.

Diveup

[Tookie]

As an old-timer, I can comfortably and succinctly summarise my comments to the above statements thus:- Bollocks.

Sour Grapes, I say. If you look hard enough you will find fault. Has this person mentioned all the postive he has seen or heard. I would guess not. On a positive note, at least there are the opportunities for the challenged academic or less ambitious person to earn a living, ie train drivers, street sweepers etc. With regard to drugs, yes they are around, just like they are on the streets of South Africa. With regard to the corrupt Govt, of course yes, but when they are caught out, which 9/10 they are, they are sacked, not just shifted to another portfolio. Perth is not Utopia, but I love it and am happy to call it home.

Tookie

[Voortrekker]

They have made statements like:

1. The Government is so corrupt.

2. Far too much drugs, they picked up many needles.

3. You are not encouraged to think out the box ... if you are a train driver that's all you will ever be...

As an old-timer, I can comfortably and succinctly summarise my comments to the above statements thus:- Bollocks.

[Serendipity]

For what it's worth, keeping in mind i have not been there

There is no chance that it's going to be like SA

Possibly there is corruption but it will be only a small fraction compared to here.

Did it ever cross your mind that these ppl leaving are in fact leaving with sour grapes because things didn't work out for them?? I know of someone who has just come back after about 6 months - they did nothing but bad mouth the place! Truth came out, they just coudn't cut it and were not ready for the move, mentally and physically.

Looking forward to other replies on this one though

[emilejvr]

I'm not in Australia yet so I can't really comment, but bear in mind that people who return will always find ways to justify their decision to themselves and to others.

So just like we justify our decision to go by raising issues like South Africa's crime etc., similarly people who return will raise issues about Australia in order to justify their decision to return.