South Australian Discrimination

[W+R]

Hi everybody,

This is perhaps a strange question to ask. I read in one of the other threads that the Queenslanders are sometimes perceived as discriminating against people who are not from Queensland with respect to let 's say employment. A city like Melbourne seems to be much more open to outsiders.

However people told me that British people are not very friendly compared to South Africans too and when I stayed in England i found them to be very friendly, maybe just different to South Africans.

Then Adelaide is also sometimes compared to Bloemfontein which I know quite well. I am planning to emmigrate to Adelaide specifically and would just like to know people's opinion. Is Adelaide a very close-knit community where it is difficult for people to accept new friends into their "cliques"? Or where (because it is one of the smaller less popular cities) it might be difficult to find work if you speak with a strange accent?

Adelaide is wonderful, that I can see. But is it more difficult to settle in there than other Ausralian cities?

I am an electrical engineer working in building services for consulting engineers. I hope to do the same in Adelaide, but it is difficult to try and guess how easily i will be able to find a job in Adelaide.

I have looked for jobs in Adelaide on the net, but what I am asking is for some personal opinions and experiences. I know that these are always subjective but they are still a useful indicator. I know that there are a few forumites living in Adelaide and a few more on their way! What do you guys think? I love Adelaide but i am just worried that the small (ish) size might make it difficult to find a decent job.

Sorry for the untidy layout of my question, i guess it reflects my confusion

[Guest Bronwyn]

Hi Werner - I also await replies to your question with interest, and I was wondering whether you have been to Adelaide yet?

I was actually very negative about the place, before we visited there a year back. I looked on the map and said to my husband 'Not a damn, that place is between nowhere and nowhere!' But I realised when I got there I had totally the wrong idea.

Population-wise, it's about the size of Pretoria, but I think one of the the reasons why the economy is so good is that there is an unemployment rate of less than 4%. Meaning 96% of the people are working for a good income, compared to, say, Pretoria where we have a very large (disputed) percentage of unemployed people and people living below the breadline in bad conditions, people staying alive by earning money illegally, etc... Their economy in South Australia is thus much more self-sustaining. Presumably 96% of the people are paying tax, and the infrustructure is better than we could ever dream of here. 96% of the people are contributing towards their retirement, and so there is much less burden on the state, etc etc.

I have done quite a lot of reasearch on the place and I'll PM you with whatever will help you, so as not to bore the other forumites Just ask.

I did go for a job interview while I was there and I got the strong impression THEY wanted ME, not the other way around, as I have always perceived job interviews in the past.

Have you seen their website? It makes for interesting reading. If not, check out www.immigration.sa.gov.au

Regards, Bronwyn

[Naudis]

Hi Werner - I also await replies to your question with interest, and I was wondering whether you have been to Adelaide yet?

I was actually very negative about the place, before we visited there a year back. I looked on the map and said to my husband 'Not a damn, that place is between nowhere and nowhere!' But I realised when I got there I had totally the wrong idea.

Population-wise, it's about the size of Pretoria, but I think one of the the reasons why the economy is so good is that there is an unemployment rate of less than 4%. Meaning 96% of the people are working for a good income, compared to, say, Pretoria where we have a very large (disputed) percentage of unemployed people and people living below the breadline in bad conditions, people staying alive by earning money illegally, etc... Their economy in South Australia is thus much more self-sustaining. Presumably 96% of the people are paying tax, and the infrustructure is better than we could ever dream of here. 96% of the people are contributing towards their retirement, and so there is much less burden on the state, etc etc.

I have done quite a lot of reasearch on the place and I'll PM you with whatever will help you, so as not to bore the other forumites Just ask.

I did go for a job interview while I was there and I got the strong impression THEY wanted ME, not the other way around, as I have always perceived job interviews in the past.

Have you seen their website? It makes for interesting reading. If not, check out www.immigration.sa.gov.au

Regards, Bronwyn

Hi Werner/Bronwyn. I would also like more information on this matter and other similar topics on Adelaide. We (me, wife, daughter) are dead set on Adelaide. We very much like what we see. We are in PE in SA at the mo and Adelaide looks very similar to PE/Pretoria, which is what we are used to and comfortable with.

I will keep my eye on any replies to your Q.

Brad

[Carlos Carvalho]

Hi Werner

Although I share the concern wrt employment, I've been told by the wife's recruiting agency migration agent, that once in Adelaide finding employment in the engineering field (I am a Project Manager in Aviation Eng & Log with Electronics engineering background) should not be difficult. And, yes, it would be good to read some personal experiences from Adelaide forumites who have been there, done that and made it.

Cheers

[Bob]

Well, I thought I'd give the opportunity for somebody else to give their two bob's worth first, but nobody has taken two steps forward, so far, and volunteered.

Firstly, let me say that Australia is a damn big place . . . . it can gobble up seven South Africas and they won't hit the sides!! . . . . so Australia can cater for quite a few different tastes and lifestyles for new settlers to these shores. If one style doesn't suit, don't think all of Australia is the same. Try a different place . . . different lifestyle. It can work wonders.

Adelaide has one particular lifestyle, like other capital cities around Australia.

Adelaide's climate is mild most of the year leading to hot in the three months of summer, often having over 40 degrees for a couple of days or so, at a time.

Adelaide's housing is the cheapest in Australia . . . . at the moment . . . and you get more "bang for your buck" for bricks and mortar and land in Adelaide than any other big city in Australia. You can stick money down on two "nice" places in Adelaide. . . . the same amount will only buy you one "nice" place in Perth!

Like all cities, there are leafy suburbs and there are some older suburbs which had been a bit run down but are being "rejuvenated" nowadays, often by young couples seeking a good bargain to start with and renovating an old home in the suburbs.

The eastern suburbs of Adelaide running along the foothills tend to be more established and professional folk like the leafy streets on offer there, with the cool breezes in summer that come down the gulleys from the Hills in the evening.

Adelaide has been called a bit of a country town with its pace of life and the way people drive and relax. You'll often see folk sitting outside, seated at tables along the pavement, for most months of the year at "al fresco' style cafes and restaurants, much the same as the Greeks, Spaniards and Italians do, owing to a similar climate.

Adelaide is the same latitude as Tunisia or the very bottom of the Cape Province . . . . 35 degrees south.

As far as fitting into Adelaide's lifestyle goes, South Australia has had a hard job of attracting British and European settlers to South Australia.

It was the landing place for many British and Europeans throughout the 50s, 60s and early 70s when there was free and open migration to Australia . . . . and South Africa, also . . . . and we get new migrants from further afield nowadays. Adelaide hasn't had the length of time that Sydney and Melbourne have had in the way of being a cosmopolitan place. Some prefer Sydney that way, others Adelaide and Perth for how they are, although it is changing over time.

I've heard it said of Adelaide that "It's not what you know . . . It's who you know." I personally feel that if you are South African, you will get on well with older Adelaideans because they are comfortable with South Africans and can "engage" with them. The humour is the same and the cultural attitudes to life are very close, so you will find rapport with older Australians that you tend to meet in life and in the work-place.

I personally know one South African couple well, over the years, and they appear to fit into South Australian life and blend in at functions, weddings, church, etc. like other South Australians, all sitting around the table or barbeque together and sharing with other Adelaide people as one would expect. They are Australian citizens and vote at elections. They discuss the current issues and voice their opinions like any other Australian at barbies or in the home and are listened to and respected . . . not necessarily agreed with, however, but it would be unrealistic to expect to see eye-to-eye on all matters in life. Their daughter, by the way, is marrying an Australian bloke next month and we have an invitation to the wedding, so proving that the lifestyles of South Africans in Adelaide can run parallel with the wider Australian community. It just takes time.

You just have to remember that YOU are the ones leaving your comfort zone and gate-crashing the party that Adelaide people are putting on, so to speak.

You will not have a dozen old mates waiting to meet you at Adelaide airport and give you a good time, so it will take a long up-hill slog to get to meet Aussies and form friendships with them, but it can be done if you are patient with them and know how to integrate.

There are clues:

Aussies are mad about their sport, so get the kids into kiddies football or rugby or soccer. Play in your local tennis club if you can hold a tennis racquet. In summer, play cricket with the local team, if you know which end to hold a cricket bat.

Find a good, welcoming church and start to attend on a regular basis to get to know Australian Christians.

Join the local Rotary Club to get into charitable work in your local community.

In country areas, join the local Red Cross or Country Fire Service, State Emergency Service or St. John's Ambulance to work alongside Aussies.

There is a BIG volunteer atmosphere in Australian society and if you want to feel part of the community, get off bums and get out there . . . . . you will be welcomed with open arms! . . . . . and be made to feel an integral part of the community with the barbies and luncheons that are put on occasionally.

Edited November 8, 2006 by Bob

[Annette]

Is Adelaide a very close-knit community where it is difficult for people to accept new friends into their "cliques"? Or where (because it is one of the smaller less popular cities) it might be difficult to find work if you speak with a strange accent?

........

I love Adelaide but i am just worried that the small (ish) size might make it difficult to find a decent job.

Hi Werner

Bob has given an excellent answer to which I can hardly add much, except this: Yes, Adelaide can be quite a close-knit community, but we have found absolutely no problem being accepted. Any place has its cliques and people who have spent most of their lives going to school together, working together, having children at the same time, going to church and being baptised or confirmed together. This is a shared history which is something we cannot hope to ever become part of, but that's no problem. Don't expect to make life-long friends instantly, and give things some time and you won't be disappointed.

Accents make no difference to whether you can find a job. We have found that experience counts for way more than anything else here. Sometimes you might have to convince employers that your experience is relevant to Australia, but once you're in employment and can prove yourself, you will be respected for ever. Aussies respect an honest, hard worker more than anything and will give you a considerable amount of respect if you try hard to fit in, learn how things are done here and put in the hard graft. We have also found that the bigger effort we make to learn about the history and customs of the local area, the more people warm to us and invite us over to "educate" us. It's lovely and I can honestly say we feel like we have come right home.

The smaller size of the city might mean that you will have to be a bit more patient and wait a while to get the right job, but there are plenty of "decent" jobs here. I don't know anyone who has struggled much more than about 6 - 8 weeks to find a job and plenty of people who have moved jobs in the first year or two to move on from a "good enough" job to a perfect job. In your industry you should have no problem at all.

Don't worry too much. Adelaide is an amazingly friendly place. The key is to be open and willing to learn how things work here and to accept the differences and embrace the oppurtunities.

Edited November 8, 2006 by Annette

[W+R]

Hi everybody!

Thank you so much for your replies. It is very helpful to listen to what people have to say that are actually living there. We haven't been to Adelaide (or Australia for that matter) yet, but we have done many hours of research on the internet and based on this we have decided on Adelaide.

In the words of Anette:

The key is to be open and willing to learn how things work here and to accept the differences and embrace the oppurtunities.

In my experience an attitude like this will open doors for you everywhere and make your life much easier and happier. Anette, I know what you mean with the shared experiences people will have had in a city where you are a new resident and that will always be true of any new city you move to, even in your own country. Thanks for your response also Bob, I always enjoy reading your posts as they tend to address many of the issues I am interested in.

I am glad to see other people's interest in Adelaide. I suspect we have many of the same reasons for choosing Adelaide above some of the other cities. The Joburg traffic alone is enough to convince me......

Basically to make a success you need to get involved with the community as much as possible and as soon as possible after arriving and that is exactly what I plan to do!

By the way there are some good Adelaide photos at:

http://www.photoadelaide.com

Hopefully we can meet with some of you when we finally arrive in Adelaide to say thanks for all the help!

Werner

[Carlos Carvalho]

Werner

(Annette, Bob; Thank you for the response out of Adelaide.) The other evening we met with Bronwyn and her hubby Steven and the one of the lessons that I learnt was that we better get some additional reading material on Aus and Adelaide in particular. So, one of the books we purchased is a quick guide to customs & etiquette, Culture Smart Australia by Barry Penney, which has been read from cover to cover and addresses the aspects that Annette & Bob have mentioned. Worth the expense and a good read!

Bob, by the way, since you didn't include Portuguese in your post, does that mean the coast is clear for me to set up a Mozambique Peri-Peri Chicken Franchise in Adelaide?

Cheers

[Marius]

Carlos,

Open the Peri-Peri place mate, PLEASE

[Annette]

There's a Nando's in Adelaide. Carlos, I'm sure any restaurant will do well if they're good, service is fast and friendly and the price is right. If there's one thing South Australians really enjoy it's eating out

[Carlos Carvalho]

Hi Annette, Marius

Not sure if you'll recall, but sometime back there was an advert on SA telly, where an oldish Italian lady was let out of the cupboard to do her tasty Italian meals.....Now, I just have to figure out how to get my mom in Adelaide?

Kind Regards

[Bob]

Mate,

you can open a Mozambique Peri - Peri Chook place in Adelaide, as long as you call it the "Laurenco Marques".

I can see Marius' nose pressed up against the window already.

An Indian bloke has opened a beaut Indian restaurant in the little country town, called Nairne, next to my place.

My wife's taken to Indian tucker with a vengeance, although the hot Vindaloos are still a bit out of reach for her palate.

You may have some real success if you don't operate in the same township as KFC with their secret herbs and spices.

[Marius]

Bob,

Yup, that name will do. Indeed, I can do with a good Peri-Peri chook and my month is indeed watering Indian ? I like that to ( South Africa has a large indian population and the food infiltrated life there ). I will check the one you mention out.

Carlos,

hehehe, I do remember the ad yes, I can see your mom getting out the cupboard with every order of peri-peri chicken.

To W+R,

South Aussie is a good place to live. Yes, some folk in the other states have all sorts of comments about Adelaide, but most in good spirits. Like us in SA that always had something to say about people from the Freestate ( Like they only join the army to wear long hair and shoes ). Personal preference in the end. Bob and the rest gave a comprehensive opinion. We are lucky in that BOB can provide input form a local's perspective.

Come on down South

[Carlos Carvalho]

Annette, Bob, Marius

Not sure whether you ever landed in Pretoria, but in Paul Kruger Str, close to Church Square there was a Portuguese restaurant by the name of Pinnochio (Italian name, Portuguese cuisine...how the hell did that happen?) But anyway, dad minded the bar, mom minded the kitchen and I just did what I was told to do...now that I think about it, some good memories.

The next best offer I have (at this stage) is that when in Adelaide, you'll be invited for traditional peri-peri 'galinha' at the Carvalho home. Now to figure out how to place peri-peri seeds in luggage so that we miss Australian Customs.

Regards

Carlos

[Bob]

In July, Ginnie and I visited the eastern part of England which was painted by a famous C19th landscape painter called Constable.

There were the beautiful English cottage flowers that adorned the area, so Ginnie . . . . ever the keen gardener . . . popped half a dozen Hollyhock seeds in her pocket.

It is a definite "NO NO" to be caught with them, but if they're in your pocket with all the loose change and they just happen to "fall" out when you put your strides thro' the wash at home . . . . . well?????

Make sure the seeds are as clean as you can get them. We don't want any soil diseases brought into Australia unnecessarily.

Invitation accepted.

You might like to give yourselves a while to get set up in a good house first before the hordes come round for a Peri Peri evening, but am looking forward to it.

[Guest Bronwyn]

Carlos although I love lemon & herb I will try your Peri-peri - can it be made in a potjie? I can imagine it with some Woollies portgugese rolls, hmmm...

When bringing the seeds in I don't suggest you put them in a baggie & swallow it. Especially not if you have a stopover in Singapore...Also, stay away from the sniffer dogs if you can.

Can you grow peri-peri from the seeds and then use those seeds to plant more, etc? Do they not have such things as peri-peri plants there already? Anyone? Or do you need a perticular type of plant?

Just wondering.

[Marius]

Carlos,

I hail form close to Pretoria and think I remember seeing the restaurant you mention. Real Portuguese Peri-Peri, now that can work. We have gone totally off the original post, but hey, no discrimination against potuegese food from me . Bob's advice seem reasonable, although I think you might very well find the seeds or even plants locally as there is a fair Portuguese community here as far as I can see.

Bronwyn, I dont know, have never seen it in a potjie, but anyhting in Sa can be made in a potjie so i guess such a hybrid is not impossible.

Carlos and family - Welcome to Adeliade and keep in touch please. Let us know how you go once here and if you need help with anything.

[Annette]

Carlos, I lived in Vanderbijlpark for a while during my teenage years and we had a HUGE Portuguese community there (as you probably already know). We used to go for dinner at a Portuguese Eating House in a little side street near my friend's house. I've never tasted piri piri chicken like that before and not again ... simply historical! In fact, my husband and I had our first "dinner date" there . The best way to lose a few pounds I reckon because that chicken was so hot by the end of the meal we would be soaked in sweat. That really made me think back. I think Adelaide would welcome an authentic Portuguese restaurant.

[Carlos Carvalho]

Bronwyn,

My apologies. Family is also invited and yes, Bob, thank you for the advice. Once settled, invites will be forwarded. I'll need to do some research whether the peri-peri seeds my parents grow in their garden are available Down Under? The secret, of course, is in the way all the ingredients come together.

Marius, thank you for the welcome, and yes, I agree, we have moved totally away from the original post (Sorry, W+R, but at least I now know that I would not be the only 'Portugaans' in Adelaide). Any Portuguese social club(s) in Adelaide?

Annette, I'll have some time in my hands prior to Aus and I think I'll need to sharpen my Portuguese cooking skills, if the authentic restaurant is to succeed.

Bronwyn, thinking about it, maybe I must get a Nando's type bottle to you, prior to departure, so that once in Adelaide you can try it out. And, yes, you'll be able to stir it up in a stew.

Have a good weekend!

[ExASP]

Carlos...I remember your dads chillies...he was very specific about the ones he used...I also remember the restaurant Pinnochios..the food was delicious...and that sauce you refer to...is it the one your dad makes? I also remember that you had to be EXTREMELY careful about how much you used....

Tell him i say hello...and he should visit the lab again...hehehe...

[Marius]

Carlos,

"Portugaans" hehehe ! Haven't heard that word in a long time . I am not 100% sure of the Portuegese clubs formal arrangements, but this is the Portuegese community's contact detials:

7 Sixth Ave, Woodville Gardens, SA 5012

Tel - ( 08) 8268 8281 ( of course +61 and no zero in front of the 8 if you dial from outside Australia )

When are you arriving in Adelaide again ?

[Carlos Carvalho]

Marius

Thank you for the details wrt the Portuguese community in Adelaide. I'll be sure to contact them in due course. The plan is for around Mar/ Apr 07. I'll also PM you with particulars, so that we don't keep chatting away about everything else but South Australian discrimination.

Stella

I passed on the greetings and his reply was "You see Maria not only is the Mayor of Pta-West known in Australia, but our peri-peri recipe will one day be served in fine restaurants...blah, blah, fishpaste...and you know how he can carry on.

Regards.

[Tazz]

HI Carlos,

Looking forward to tasting your Peri Peri chicken in ADL.....the thought it is making me soooooooo hungry

[W+R]

I am very happy to see my post is going strong..... even if not about South Australian discimination anymore

I must say all this talk about restaurants and special family recipes has really made me hungry too!

I am going to look for you restaurant (the one you are still going to open when you get there) in Adelaide, Carlos!

[Tazz]

Has any body in ADL tried the Nandos at Rundle Mall....I remember seeing it there but didnt try it...we had our accustomed $5 chinese selection for lunch that day.