'If you can stand the loss, leave SA'

[Good Witch]

'If you can stand the loss, leave SA'

[Eva]

At least he recognises who is responsible and should be held accountable for the way things are in South Africa right now! I am so sick of hearing everything blamed on apartheid, years after this government have been in power, and busy lining their own pockets, just like the old government, instead of caring for 'the people'!

I'm sure I will learn to cope with the loss!

If DIAC would just give us the chance...

[niemeerhier]

Maar wat het hy gesê toe die mense vir hom gesê het dat dit gaan gebeur? Lekker om 'n aktivis te wees as jy nie self die gevolge aan eie bas voel nie.

[Zack]

Breyton you prick, what is the point of crapping on us in the yankee media. He will never be happy, this is what he "struggled" for.

[Dreams]

and now the a#$hole lives in NY, he should be forced to live in RSA and smell the s#it

[Mythryl]

It's another example of those liberal-black sash toting morons who voted ANC then ran with their tails between their legs. Breyten should take some of the blame himself

[JacquesV]

and now the a#$hole lives in NY, he should be forced to live in RSA and smell the s#it

I agree!!! Why not live with his boetjies now?? Instead he runs off to another country and now sings another song in a much safer environment!!! Chicken Sh1te!!!!

[Lyn]

As usual with things SA - what a sad mess !!

Im not even going to comment any further - Ive been in AUS nearly a month now so the "loss wounds" are still raw !!

[Bob]

People who argue for change, then don't make themselves accountable and responsible for the very change that they have helped to bring about are not to trusted in future.

Their words, their assessment on life, their outlook are obviously not based on reality. They live in ivory towers, far from reality.

Someone who votes for the Devil should be made to drink from the same cup.

How else will they learn the error of their ways?

Maybe they'll think twice, in future, before recommending a certain kind of change.

[Good Witch]

People who argue for change, then don't make themselves accountable and responsible for the very change that they have helped to bring about are not to trusted in future.

Their words, their assessment on life, their outlook are obviously not based on reality. They live in ivory towers, far from reality.

Someone who votes for the Devil should be made to drink from the same cup.

How else will they learn the error of their ways?

Maybe they'll think twice, in future, before recommending a certain kind of change.

I totally agree! It's easy to be opinionated when you are not held accountable for your opinions...

However, that being said... From an artistic point of view I am a Breyten Breytenbach fan - his poetry (and music CD) is seriously good! Even though his political views are not appreciated! Perhaps the man should stick with what he does best... write poems!

As for the rest of us - who ended up having to LIVE the nightmare that people like him apparently escaped, I'd like to think that somehow - in some small way - we are enriched for it... Some good HAD to have come from our collective experiences as whites in Africa...

“Once you’ve crossed that bridge, my friends, the ghost is finished, his power ends.â€

-- Washington Irving, Legend of Sleepy Hollow

[KirstyP]

I might be getting this totally wrong but it reads as though Breyten Breytenbach is actually agreeing with you all about the sad state of SA. I think he deserves some credit for at least being honest about the situation back home in SA.

I also think you need to factor into your attacks of him that he spent years in Pollsmore Prison in solitary confinement being tortured becasue he was a white ANC activist. There are very few ANC comrades who would agree publically now that the ANC has failed SA on many levles and that SA citizens should get out.

Breytenbach just has. What more do you want and expect from him?

I respect him!

[saffer2]

I might be getting this totally wrong but it reads as though Breyten Breytenbach is actually agreeing with you all about the sad state of SA. I think he deserves some credit for at least being honest about the situation back home in SA.

I also think you need to factor into your attacks of him that he spent years in Pollsmore Prison in solitary confinement being tortured becasue he was a white ANC activist. There are very few ANC comrades who would agree publically now that the ANC has failed SA on many levles and that SA citizens should get out.

Breytenbach just has. What more do you want and expect from him?

I respect him!

I agree with you KirstyP - by the logic of the previous posters any ANC supporter who becomes a dissenter should be ridiculed. That's ridiculous. SA needs to aim for a coherant dialog about the issues and solutions, and resorting to personal attacks because of political leanings/ race/ gender etc is obviously stupid. Living under an apartheid govt. was a fate worse than death - this govt. has issues to deal with and we should all engage in constructive debate, but those issues do not reduce the legitimacy of the current govt.

[AllisonW]

My understanding of the article was that he was angry with the current state of affairs and supporting people who wanted to leave the country.

Perhaps those who have made negative comments above should re-read the article.

Al

[Brick]

I go to this website regularly, they have a very good (if not downright ridiculous) take on things that hit the news.

It has a good one on this topic at the moment.

http://www.hayibo.com/

B

[KirstyP]

I go to this website regularly, they have a very good (if not downright ridiculous) take on things that hit the news.

It has a good one on this topic at the moment.

http://www.hayibo.com/

B

A humerous take on his comments

I find it sad that he has become a forgotten name in SA amongst the youth considering what he did and suffered for our country.

[louw.pretorius]

The problem is that Breyten distances himself from the new Political powers which he now criticize.

He stands aside and lays blame without taking himself and his own involvement into account. In short he points the finger not as an insider but as an outsider as if he himself did not help bring this beast to power.

The fact that we agree with his new opinion is beside the point.

[KirstyP]

The problem is that Breyten distances himself from the new Political powers which he now criticize.

He stands aside and lays blame without taking himself and his own involvement into account. In short he points the finger not as an insider but as an outsider as if he himself did not help bring this beast to power.

The fact that we agree with his new opinion is beside the point.

I have NO problem with this... I am sure that when he fought for liberation in SA he did not realize what "beast" he was helping to birth. Now that it is clear to him you deny him the chance to called it a "beast"? What would you rather he do? Continue to blindly support the ANC? At least he has the courage to admit the truth.

I feel that he is damned is does, damned if he doesn't. Not fair guys!

[louw.pretorius]

Path to respect:

1. Accept responsibility nomatter how small or misdirected

2. State your opposition against the status quo

Respect granted.

Otherwise we are all just thinking: "he's trying to sell more articles"

Fair enough?

PS. I don't have access to his full article, so above is said with current knowledge

[Bob]

Not being a South African colours my debate somewhat, but if an individual cried out for change in Australia, for instance, to bring in an extremely left wing Socialist government, where all property was nationalised, etc. I would expect that individual to stick around and experience first hand the changes that he / she had cried out so long for.

No matter whether I'd agreed with him or not, I'd at least have some measure of respect for him, if he actually stuck around to "live the dream" right to the end.

Not so, if, when the experiment unravels, he seeks another land to go and live in, far from the calamity that has been brought down on the people living under the system he's sought to bring about for so long.

What respect can you hold for a bloke who chooses the easy path out of the experiences he's helped to usher in and argued for?

You'll get heaps of fancy people in life who can talk the talk . . . . . . not nearly so many who are prepared to walk the walk.

[Bob]

I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to see that all is not well in South Africa.

To the north, across the Limpopo, we see a perfectly good country in colonial times, having been the bread basket of Africa, totally gone down the toilet.

Anyone with any links to Mugabe nowadays will have lost all credibility with the world.

Where would this bloke (Breytenbach) be if he maintains links with the ANC and the same thing happens in South Africa?

Would his credibility with the world still be maintained?

I don't think so.

Maybe he's jumping ship . . . . . seeing what is a probable scenario for South Africa . . . . . just to maintain some credibility in the future.

That way, if he tips the bucket on the ANC now, he can stand up in the future and say he spoke out against them.

Big deal! . . . . . . when anyone can see the ANC is struggling and may well become dictatorial in the future under Zuma and all sorts of factions splitting away nowadays.

I'm afraid it's just not washing with a lot of South Africans, from what I can see.

Edited December 18, 2008 by Bob

[Bob]

I am a European . . . . and I make no apology for that, any more than I apologise for having blue eyes, or for being over 6 foot in height, or having two feet.

I grew up a European naturally, culturally and in aspiration, and expect to contribute to a European way of life, giving and taking in return.

In former times, Europeans from Holland and, later, Britain settled in South Africa with the Portuguese in Mocambique, to live a lifestyle that was consistent with their European outlook, culture and way of life.

These Europeans didn't go to Africa . . . . or America, or Australia . . . . . only to become natives, adopt their lifestyle and customs and wear loin cloths and hunt with bows and arrows, just as the locals were doing at the time.

They wouldn't have left Europe to do that.

Is it any wonder that the settlers insisted their ways be maintained and that a European way of life be the norm?

I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to understand this and appreciate why the settlers hung on for so long with Apartheid in South Africa and Rhodesia.

Indeed, the worrying apprehensions of the white settlers in Rhodesia of surrendering power to the local indigenous people has been realised.

It has not only become the worse nightmare for the old white settlers there, but also to the locals who fought for and voted overwhelmingly for change there.

Would you seriously want to live in Zimbabwe today?

I don't think so.

Maybe the old white settlers throughout southern Africa just couldn't bring themselves to see those same worrying apprehensions visited on everyone until the bitter end.

That's one reason I'm here on this website . . . . to help them get out and settle in a new land where European values are still consistent and they would be able to appreciate.

Those who voted for Mugabe or the ANC, I owe no sense of responsibility to.

Let them enjoy the fruits of what they have voted for.

If Breyton Breytonbach really wants to be a hero, he should respect what Europeans are culturally and where they are at with their aspirations and dreams in life, and help them to maintain a European lifestyle to what they aspire to, and he should approach Western governments around the world to argue their case for an "easy door" migration approach into Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Holland, Britain, etc.

They are the ones being denied opportunity and security in the new South Africa that he helped bring about.

Edited December 19, 2008 by Bob

[PhillipJ]

I am a European . . . . and I make no apology for that, any more than I apologise for having blue eyes, or for being over 6 foot in height.

I grew up a European and expect to contribute to a European way of life, giving and taking in return.

In former times, Europeans from Holland and, later, Britain settled in South Africa to live a lifestyle that was consistent with their European outlook and way of life.

These Europeans didn't go to Africa . . . . or America, or Australia . . . . . only to become natives, adopt their lifestyle and customs and wear loin cloths and hunt with bows and arrows, just as the locals were doing at the time.

Is it any wonder that the settlers insisted their ways be maintained and that a European way of life be the norm?

I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to understand this and appreciate why the settlers hung on for so long with Apartheid in South Africa and Rhodesia.

Indeed, the apprehensions of the white settlers in Rhodesia of surrendering power to the local indigenous people has been realised.

It has not only become the worse nightmare for the old white settlers there, but also to the locals who fought for and voted overwhelmingly for change there.

Would you seriously want to live in Zimbabwe today?

I don't think so.

Maybe the old white settlers throughout southern Africa just couldn't bring themselves to see this visited on everyone until the bitter end.

That's one reason I'm here . . . . to help them get out and settle in a new land where European values are still consistent and they would be able to appreciate.

Those who voted for Mugabe or the ANC, I owe no sense of responsibility to.

Bob

Your take on this could not be better put.

Very well said!!!

PhillipJ

[Good Witch]

I am a European . . . . and I make no apology for that, any more than I apologise for having blue eyes, or for being over 6 foot in height, or having two feet.

I grew up a European naturally, culturally and in aspiration, and expect to contribute to a European way of life, giving and taking in return.

In former times, Europeans from Holland and, later, Britain settled in South Africa with the Portuguese in Mocambique, to live a lifestyle that was consistent with their European outlook, culture and way of life.

These Europeans didn't go to Africa . . . . or America, or Australia . . . . . only to become natives, adopt their lifestyle and customs and wear loin cloths and hunt with bows and arrows, just as the locals were doing at the time.

They wouldn't have left Europe to do that.

Is it any wonder that the settlers insisted their ways be maintained and that a European way of life be the norm?

I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to understand this and appreciate why the settlers hung on for so long with Apartheid in South Africa and Rhodesia.

Indeed, the worrying apprehensions of the white settlers in Rhodesia of surrendering power to the local indigenous people has been realised.

It has not only become the worse nightmare for the old white settlers there, but also to the locals who fought for and voted overwhelmingly for change there.

Would you seriously want to live in Zimbabwe today?

I don't think so.

Maybe the old white settlers throughout southern Africa just couldn't bring themselves to see those same worrying apprehensions visited on everyone until the bitter end.

That's one reason I'm here on this website . . . . to help them get out and settle in a new land where European values are still consistent and they would be able to appreciate.

Those who voted for Mugabe or the ANC, I owe no sense of responsibility to.

Let them enjoy the fruits of what they have voted for.

If Breyton Breytonbach really wants to be a hero, he should respect what Europeans are culturally and where they are at with their aspirations and dreams in life, and help them to maintain a European lifestyle to what they aspire to, and he should approach Western governments around the world to argue their case for an "easy door" migration approach into Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Holland, Britain, etc.

They are the ones being denied opportunity and security in the new South Africa that he helped bring about.

And once again you are our champion Bob..! You see into our hearts and understand with precision what our psyche is about and why we seek a new home in Australia...

Bless you Bob, and thank you.

I have stated before that I enjoy Breyten Breytenbach from an artistic point of view. This man is a talented poet, and I love some of his work! However, I do not agree with (and I certainly have no respect for) his political views. He fought for an ideal at the expense of the people of this country, and then jumped ship when the dream turned sour. It's all good and well saying that he is now being denied an opportunity to admit that he was wrong, but the point is he's not HERE living the nightmare that he helped create! If he was here, a victim of violent crime as so many of his country-folk left behind, I think I would be more inclined to feel a measure of respect for him. Instead he helped create this monster but did not stick around for the consequences of his choices. That's a coward's way out in my opinion! There is nothing to respect - but his art.

[Legalbuff]

I'm sure Mr Breytenbach is well aware of the fact he's not there to see and live through what he's created. Whether he cares, that's a different question.

Maybe the underlying point we are not considering is this: a voice speaking against the powers that be in SA (one of the many acknowledging things are not going well) carries MORE weight when that voice comes from someone who fought so passionately FOR the current regime - does that make sense?

(I'm no good at politics - forgive me if this is absolute cr@p!)

[saffer2]

All South Africans have a right to their own political opinions and the right to live their lives as they see fit. Voting for a particular administration does not mean that someone has to live in that country or that they are not allowed to express some disillusionment. Educated people all over the world are mobile and can live where they chose - this does not invalidate their political opinion.

Apartheid was dead - even the NATS recognised that. A new political dispensation was needed in SA. The ANC took on a huge challenge - from a very protected, police state the move to a democratic, free state was NEVER going to be without challenges.

Those who vote/ voted ANC did not betray South Africans - those who voted in the NATS and kept them in power, did.