Going back? Not me!

[aussie girl]

Hi,

I think all of us living in Australia who still have family in South Africa have thought of going back, i have often thought of going back but when i speak to my family that side and hear all the things happening over there i am so glad i am in Australia. I live in a wonderful place called the Whitsundays and it is beautiful and peaceful i have two children and that is the reason we decided to come to Australia so that we can give them a better life and my kids have really adjusted well this side. So my decision is NOT to go back because we have a much better life this side.

Aussie Girl

[MelG]

This taken from Homecoming Revolution by an SA expat back in our beautiful land. I really felt this guy's post was positive and objective (Accidental Expats).

"...As far as Australia is concerned, I guess it is a reasonably easy transition for South Africans wishing to emigrate. In a lot of respects it can be very similar to SA – they love sport, they have an outdoors lifestyle and culturally, they tend to have some similar ideas. So on the surface it seems to have these, as well as low rates of crime, lower rates of interest, social and economic structures that work and very low levels of unemployment which results in a high demand for skills. It is a country which is easy to live in, with great beaches and recreation facilities, good schools and on the whole very sociable people. I know that this sounds like a advert for Australia, but I am trying to be as true to the place as possible. It is a country where you can live comfortably in the “thick middle class†but where it is exceedingly difficult to get ahead. The salaries are not really globally competitive, particularly in a city which, in my opinion, is certainly far more expensive than any I have lived in (including London).

Australia is a very socialist country, where the status quo is praised, middle class equality is encouraged, and “tall poppies†are cut down as fast as they arise. So you should not expect praise or support for successful entrepreneurial ventures. If your ambition is to live a comfortable life of relative success and anonymity it might just be the ideal destination. If however you do not want to be overregulated and conformist, and want to get out there and set the world alight by challenging the norms and status quo, you will find it frustrating and confining. This is not just due to the regulations, but also due to the mentality of the majority of the population – amazingly, all those out there, go getter Aussies you meet while backpacking, become conformist, consensus driven “wage slaves†when they get home.(I know that is a massive generalisation, but it is also my very strong observation.) Decisions are deferred to the “committeeâ€, and commitment is avoided, particularly if the decision goes against the norm. ..."

While we do crave a mellow-mediocrity because of our constant edgy living (beyond our control), I do believe we (Saffers) are all positive go-getters.

Perhaps we could have some constructive commentary from our counterparts in Australia today, in terms of his observations and how you adapted/or didn't, particularly that bolded section within.

Edited April 14, 2008 by MelG

[wislon]

Australians have for the last 20-odd years been targeted by campaigns which build this sense of national pride " where FMCG products are stamped with the “Australian Owned/Australian Made†stamp to guarantee that profits and jobs are staying in the country. This led to changed consumer behaviour, where marginal local brand suddenly became market leaders by being “local†(Remember “local is lekker�)

I can't help thinking of the "Proudly South African" brand and what a dismal failure it's been. Anyone wanna hazard a guess as to why theirs worked and ours did not. Genuine question.

How much do they pay to put a "Australian Made" sticker/label on something? Hundreds of thousands of Oz dollars per annum? I believe that if you want to put a PSA sticker or label on something made locally, you have to pay some ridiculous fee to some body somewhere for the use of their logo, like R500k/annum. And all it does is associate you with the likes of Telkom... and I am not sure that's someone I'd want people to associate me with...

That said, I think a "Going Back" forum is a fine idea! Gives a bit of balance to this place as well, if you know what I mean. And it'll give the pro-SA propagandists someplace to hang out as well...

[CapeTownToolNut]

Australia is a very socialist country, where the status quo is praised, middle class equality is encouraged, and “tall poppies†are cut down as fast as they arise. So you should not expect praise or support for successful entrepreneurial ventures. If your ambition is to live a comfortable life of relative success and anonymity it might just be the ideal destination. If however you do not want to be overregulated and conformist, and want to get out there and set the world alight by challenging the norms and status quo, you will find it frustrating and confining. This is not just due to the regulations, but also due to the mentality of the majority of the population.

Decisions are deferred to the “committeeâ€, and commitment is avoided, particularly if the decision goes against the norm. ..."

While we do crave a mellow-mediocrity because of our constant edgy living (beyond our control), I do believe we (Saffers) are all positive go-getters.

Ja,you see - there you have it.

The above author is bang on target.

That's the trade off when moving to Australia to escape the crime and corruption of our beloved ZA.

Living in any first world country could be described as a "comfortably numb" existence because,in general,everything is so predictable and mapped out,from the cradle to the grave.

Your boundaries are well defined,so don't stick your neck out my boy,coz you'll be socially ostracized and cut down to size in no time,by your peers,or by the straight jacket business and labour laws.

I have found that immigrants coming from Europe to ZA almost invariably work for themselves here in ZA,and their general refrain seems to be "I built up a successful business in ZA within a few short years......had I tried the same in Europe,it would have taken three generations."

For example,where else but in good old ZA could you start off painting houses from the back of your VW golf,but 4 years down the line you have 6 bakkies,1 truck,a warehouse and a staff of 18.........

It's exciting,it's challenging,it's rewarding.......but is the adrenalin and the achievement worth the possibility of death or physical injury because of the success you've achieved ?

Tough question.......very tough.

[Mara]

Hi Cape Town Tool Nut

"For example,where else but in good old ZA could you start off painting houses from the back of your VW golf,but 4 years down the line you have 6 bakkies,1 truck,a warehouse and a staff of 18........."

Have seen it happen, both in Australia and New Zealand, so it is not just a ZA thing! Only difference is, you would be well advised to be paying your taxes whilst working out of the back of your VW Golf, although here it would probably be an old Ford Falcon Ute!

[sbhennops]

I must agree with everyone so far. I was asked to be the coaching convenor for 18 competitive netball teams. Well the area is seen as the more over priced neighbourhood, and of course its like Desperate House Wives senario. Every mommy thinks there kid belongs in the top teams. Well if they didn't learn anything else about SA people, its the fact that we call and apple and apple, and don't back down from a confrontation if we are in the right.

Lets just say the club as a whole is delivering its best results ever, and no politics are taking over.

I just sent them all a letter, saying if you can't behave according to your stature, you know were the door is, and you are very welcome to use it.

I think some people in the higher income scale, just take it for granted they can walk over people, well not this SA girl, I wasn't raised to be anyones punching bag or doormat, Ozzie or Not.

It seems our SA attitude and straight forwardness seem to take most Ozzies off guard, as if they are used to people groveling at there feet or something equally rediculous. Well I think they just need a wakeup call, and who better that a South African to give them that.

Greeting.

Good Luck to those going back, I have pondered it myself alot, but have an Ozzie Hubby who I don't think has the mentallity for SA life. He is way to laid back, gotta keep checking if he is breathing on his own!!!!!!

[Emille]

As much as SAAustralia (and our sisters over in Canada and the USA) is about immigration to Australia, it has become clear to me over time that "going back" is very much part of emigration/immigration. I think we deceive ourselves if we deny the fact that it (going back) is something that is present in many South Africans' minds who now call another country "home".

So, in order to give more formal support to those facing this dilemma, I felt it prudent to create this new forum, and to allow for discussion on the matter. I have to agree, it was kind of a unilateral decision on my part, and I will await the responses of the rest of the host team, which will ultimately decide whether we keep this forum or not. In the mean time, like I always say ....

Enjoy!

Hi all

This is my first post. My wife and I 'emigrated' to the UK in 2003, and by 2005, we came back to South Africa. And guess what, we are now preparing to go to Australia. All I can say is BE VERY CERTAIN why you want to go back and if that is realistic. When we came back from London I was very positive about South Africa, our future here etc. etc. It has taken, however, a mere 2 years to convince us that in fact there is no future for us here. My explanation is this: I think when you are living overseas, you 'forget' the negatives in SA and why you left in the first place, then you compare the negatives of the overseas country with the 'positives' of South Africa, and convince yourself its not so bad in SA. However, it does not take long back in this country why you originally left. I must however also say that is a very individual and personal choice- and may differ from person to person. Thats why its sooooo important to make a list of the reasons you leave SA in the first place (and keep copies of newspapers etc) in a file, so that when you start to doubt your reason for moving overseas you can look at this. My personal opinion is that white south africans are not respected or even appreciated for their contribution to this country

[sa2uk2oz]

Don't worry, we had done the Sa to Uk -- 3 times..

first time lived there for 5 years,

then almost 2 and the last time was whilst we were waiting for our australian visas to come through

which we thought would take over a year, and give us the opportunity to save more pounds before we moved

over here to the gold coast, however as luck would have it they were through within 8 months.

Have no regrets about the path we've taken to get here, in fact i think we appreciate it even more

as we were used to being away from friends and family. Lifestyle is indeed similar to what we had in Durban

and we have quite a few friends from Durban who live within an hours drive of us too.

Daughter who is almost 17 settled well over here in school, and we are now settled in our own house..

We have now found what we were looking for after all those years moving back and forwards.

Good luck with your move...

[Guest Chris Rimmer]

This taken from Homecoming Revolution by an SA expat back in our beautiful land. I really felt this guy's post was positive and objective (Accidental Expats).

"...As far as Australia is concerned, I guess it is a reasonably easy transition for South Africans wishing to emigrate. In a lot of respects it can be very similar to SA – they love sport, they have an outdoors lifestyle and culturally, they tend to have some similar ideas. So on the surface it seems to have these, as well as low rates of crime, lower rates of interest, social and economic structures that work and very low levels of unemployment which results in a high demand for skills. It is a country which is easy to live in, with great beaches and recreation facilities, good schools and on the whole very sociable people. I know that this sounds like a advert for Australia, but I am trying to be as true to the place as possible. It is a country where you can live comfortably in the “thick middle class†but where it is exceedingly difficult to get ahead. The salaries are not really globally competitive, particularly in a city which, in my opinion, is certainly far more expensive than any I have lived in (including London).

Australia is a very socialist country, where the status quo is praised, middle class equality is encouraged, and “tall poppies†are cut down as fast as they arise. So you should not expect praise or support for successful entrepreneurial ventures. If your ambition is to live a comfortable life of relative success and anonymity it might just be the ideal destination. If however you do not want to be overregulated and conformist, and want to get out there and set the world alight by challenging the norms and status quo, you will find it frustrating and confining. This is not just due to the regulations, but also due to the mentality of the majority of the population – amazingly, all those out there, go getter Aussies you meet while backpacking, become conformist, consensus driven “wage slaves†when they get home.(I know that is a massive generalisation, but it is also my very strong observation.) Decisions are deferred to the “committeeâ€, and commitment is avoided, particularly if the decision goes against the norm. ..."

While we do crave a mellow-mediocrity because of our constant edgy living (beyond our control), I do believe we (Saffers) are all positive go-getters.

Perhaps we could have some constructive commentary from our counterparts in Australia today, in terms of his observations and how you adapted/or didn't, particularly that bolded section within.

Based on my experiences, I would have to generally agree with the observations expressed in this article. On the surface, Australia does indeed have much in common with South Africa. These similarities though are livestyle rather than cultural. Immigrants moving from South Africa to Australia are often so intoxicated by the prospect of personal security, it is often months after their arrival that these cultural subtleties are noticed.

Again generally speaking, I think South Africans are more edgy socially, certainly more politicized, and possibly not as inclined to small talk as their Australian counterparts. Perhaps, in this regard, they are a reflection of South Africa itself. Australian expat comedian, Barry Humphries makes reference to the 'politics of niceness' which permeates the surburbs of Australia's middle classes.

A friend of mine who is a Qantas air hostess always tries to avoid the Sydney/Joburg run because she complains that the passengers, 'aren't nice.'

How many Saffers have recieved raised eyebrows of disbelief when they have recounted their experiences in South Africa. This inclination towards 'niceness' seems socially re-enforced from within, making Australian very 'clicky' socially. It can be hard to get a real foot hold here socially and this is despite Australians being very friendly on a surface level - on a deeper level though, they are much more cautious.

I have no desire to live in South Africa currently as I believe the current government is systematically wrecking everything and subtly encouraging an anti white atmosphere. The prevailing mentality being - 'if you don't like it leave.' Pity because I kind of feel it's my country too, not wishing to offend anyone in the ANC of course by making such an presumptuous declaration.

In the meantime, I await my repatriation within the 'nice' bossom of the Australian suburbs returning to South Africa every year to refill my soul with the sights and sounds of the bushveld or to watch the thunder clouds gather over Johannesburg only to return to Australia and watch it slowly drip away again.

Thanks Thabo.

[Emille]

Thanks a lot sa2uk2oz! I am glad to see we are not the only ones 'moving back and forth'! Aus seems to be much more similar than SA minus the negatives and uncertainty (I do recognise its not perfect as no where is...)

[Emille]

Hi Chris

I totally agree with you in terms of the situation in SA. I cannot stomack Mbeki and the SA government's attitude towards Zimbabwe. Contrary to popular believe I actually think Zuma is a good thing- Mbeki is much more autocratic, less democratic and way too arrogant. Zuma is much more open.

Hope we can join you in Melbourne this year...

Emille

[Janneman_Kie]

Hey Guys,

I have been reading this forum for a while now and must admit it is with sadness in my heart thinking about the nice things we will leave in SA. The LSD trip was so quick and busy with very little time to just sit and think !! The job offers and the Vetasses and visa application came and went very fast. Now it is during the visa waiting time that the emotions are setting in ...

I think the worries about being in a social structure that supports "status quo is praised, middle class equality is encouraged" with values such as overregulated and conformist, will set in after a few years after you have found your bearings again and start to grow out of your existing boundaries.

But then sitting here in Pretoria 8 o' clock at night with all the outside alarm zones on with the extra strong gates locked and the loaded 9mil under the pillow because of three houses burgled in a week in our immediate vicinity, one neighbour shot for his kombi, the other went through an armed robbery - worried everytime my wife and kid has to stop at our gates for fear of highjackings etc .. Then I would rather have a society a bit overregulated and conformist than the current situation ?

Maybe we will fly back regularly to Botswana (Okavango) for holidays to get the nice things of Africa with a cheap holiday on Aussie dollar terms ?

I think every country has it's problems - the question is if you are willing to live with the values in the current one ...

Hope to join the Saffers there soon and see you on the beach in the evening walking with the wife and kids and having "no worries" about somebody sticking his knife between your ribs for your Nokia.

cheers

Ian

[Willem Pretorius]

We have been in Melbourne a few weeks and have seen many Maserati's, Ferrari's, Lamborgini's, Porche's, big Merc's and BMW's, so in the cities the comment on not being possible to make it "big" if you have the ambition does not hold water. Have a look at the Boats being towed around.

To get your foot in the door is the biggest hurdle, getting your qualifications recognized the first.

But make no mistake, once you have done that its up to you to make it or not.

It is not easy, you will have to work hard for every inch, nothing will be just given to you or fall into your lap.

But is that any different to any other country in the world?

It will also take a long time to rebuild what you had in SA and it is very,very costly in the beginning.

You will have some frustration, as was commented , South Africans normally get up and do - things take a bit longer here and i am still battling to come to terms with that. It takes 2 or 3 attempts to get something done but one just have to learn how to adapt to the Aussie systems to improve.

Understanding and getting use to the Aussie way of live is the biggest hurdle and you have to change, Australia is not going to adapt to you.

You will enjoy Aussie traffice, although hectic, much more dissiplined and logical. Robots synchronised, various arrows directing traffic(diffent timing than SA) and places provided on roads to make u-turns legally which helps a lot.

City schools are tough for SA kids because the Aussie kids are not as dissiplined as kids from SA, friends of ours in smaller towns are very happy though.

Once you are in Oz, what are you going back to?

Family to me, is the only understandable reason. Bloed is dikker as water en ons beleef dit elke dag.

I had interviews with people replacing me before i left SA, one guy just return from Australia and within 3 months of working at one of the best companies in SA, he re-applied to come back to Oz.

Once you have experienced freedom in a first world country you will find it very hard to go back to SA.

You find farm stalls selling veggies unattended, just a money box.Take what you want and put the money in the container.

There is no burglar gaurds cause you don't need them, no alarms, most Caravan parks i saw do not have any fences or gates, people park their cars outside in the street Merc's, Discovery's, name it and you will see them standing outside at night.

One night in Oz and all criminals in South Africa will retire!

In the end still a very tuff move overall but up to you to make it work.

Best of luck to all still on their way.

Willie

[sbhennops]

Well said. It is hard, but it is worth it to tough it out.

Good luck to all those still enroute.

Steph

[Kerry-Lea]

My two cents...

I love SA - its in my blood and I will always have wonderful memories of the place.

My hubby has a UK passport but we have decided on Aus... why???

Its exactly what those before have said - its probably the easiest place for us and the kids to assimilate culturally. same language and weather, similar schooling, same braai on sundays etc etc. My law degree is almost entirely recognised and being an electrician it wont take much for hubby to integrate his skills either. Bottom line - its an easy move.

However, i do think that there are many people who make the move expecting the land of milk and honey, and i'm sure they are in for a big wake-up call. I have only been once (some years back) on holiday, and life in Aus is not easy. Cost of living is expensive, life is very regulated (which for us Saffas is a huge thing - what do you mean, driving IN the speed limit???!!! ).

we have come to accept that we will never have in Aus what we have here - we both have good jobs, live in a great house (and own two investment properties) and our kids go to excellent (government) schools. So why give it all up? For them, the kids. We are hoping that by making the move we are ensuring a better future for them. we are PREPARED to live a harder life, not have the "things" we have here, CLEAN MY OWN OVEN and mow my own lawn. We are prepared to start our careers over again and all that jazz because we hope (and know) the rewards later in life will be beyond measure.

Hopefully we will grow old with our children (as there as a lesser chance of them being murdered and raped in Aus), and our grandchildren (as our children will hopefully choose to live in Aus and not flee the country as they would probably do in SA). Our children can get a great tertiary education without us having to bond everything we own to pay the fees (that is if they even get a seat, given the quota systems now imposed).

To us - the sacrifice is worth the reward - and that is what one has to ask before deciding to go. It IS going to be harder but are you prepared to give up the 'good' (if not safe) life in SA for a brighter future - if not for you - then for your kids??

Edited May 7, 2008 by Kerry-Lea

[rossouwe]

I go back every so often to visit family - UNFORTUNATELY.

Why go back? I would love to know why people want to go back there (for a reason other than visiting family). When I go back, I act like a complete tourist and talk in the thickest Aus accent so people won't know I'm from there. I decided to move away from SA as there is no future for that country, no future for young people and before we know it, it is going be run so deeply into the ground people won't know if they are Zim or SA.

If I didn't have family there, I would never go back. Every SAer who now lives in Aus made a decision to move to Aus, therefore I would love to know why people go back. From this forum is os obviously clear that people go back but what is the reason (again, we all know that visiting family is probably the most common reason, but any other reasons?)

[The Willmore's]

Great to hear everyone's up and downs and moving around. Its true you do forget why you left the first time. We just packed and moved here to Brisbane almost 3 years ago without even being here before. Have up days and not so up days.

But i am glad that we are here our children are SAFE we are SAFE and we can help family in need. Glad that people speak about there bad days and feeling of going back. It makes you feel more Normal that everyone has to deal with it and remember why we are here.

[Guest Vermeulens]

Except for the Homecoming Revolution website, I don't see anyone explaining why they move back to SA in this forum? I like to be informed so I'll appreciate all the info I can get.

We have not left SA yet and I don't think anyone will be able to convince me otherwise - meaning not to leave in the next two months .... I know I'm going to get a huge shock after arriving in Oz and find it is NOT the land of milk and honey, but surely, it should be better than living in SA conditions.

My 10year old said the other day that he will come back to SA as soon as he turns 18. My reply to him is that he will be welcome to do so if there is a SA to turn back to.

[AllisonW]

I maybe putting myself in the line of fire here, but i am one of those people who do believe that there will be a future in SA for many people. There are many things that are good about SA and i dont believe that things will just go out of the window. Naive? maybe?

So why in light of this statement are we preparing to leave? Because i believe that things are better in Oz. As simple as that. I cant berate my SA lifestyle and say that it was so awful that i am leaving under duress. No, not at all. I am leaving because Oz has many positive things about it which fit with me and my family values well right now. I am leaving SA behind with fond memories and good family and friends and i hope to continue this positive relationship with this country. I dont feel the need to completely see everything in SA as terrible to make me feel better about what i am losing. And i know that i am losing things. But life is about give and take and if i am going to take what Oz is giving, i have to lose here. We have a good life here. I have good job opportunities a lovely home, private medical services. Now wait.... before i get reminded about crime and political instability..... I know and those are the reasons why we are leaving. I work with victims of crime every day and i know very well what we are dealing with.

I think that if one does not acknowledge the loss, the sadness and allow yourself to mourn what you are leaving behind it makes your adjustment so much harder.

I am South African and this continent has shaped me forever. I am proud of the traits that i have picked up here. I am tough. (Hell, i work in downtown JHB!!!). I am a survivor. I love the African rhythm and laughter. I love the African sky. Do i lose all of this because i leave this country? No! I have had amazing experiences with South Africans of all race and culture groups. (And yes as a social worker i have been into informal settlements and townships for many years.) People survive in SA with very little. The system may be failing us, but i am still proud to belong to a country that overthrew apartheid. South Africans are good people and i will miss them dearly.

And no doubt, even if the journey is very exciting, this will be one SA chick who will be howling into her hankie at JHB airport when we leave.

I will visit and will stay true to my roots, even while i savour all that Oz has to offer me.

Its a global village, hey?

Al

[MelG]

So why in light of this statement are we preparing to leave? Because i believe that things are better in Oz. As simple as that. I cant berate my SA lifestyle and say that it was so awful that i am leaving under duress. No, not at all. I am leaving because Oz has many positive things about it which fit with me and my family values well right now. I am leaving SA behind with fond memories and good family and friends and i hope to continue this positive relationship with this country. I dont feel the need to completely see everything in SA as terrible to make me feel better about what i am losing. And i know that i am losing things.

My husband and I have just spent 4weeks in Aus; and make no mistake we arrived back here to fetch the kids (and get creative about how we can get there). But honestly, Australia is so much like South Africa. It all feels so familiar. There are so many little towns that are so much like South African little towns it’s almost like one country copied the other. We tried to be as objective as possible and not view everything with rose-tinted glasses but the positives of the country were glaringly obvious. There are so many children all over the place and everywhere is very family orientated and family focused, a population of like-minded people - and since that is where we are in our lives at the moment, it suits us 100%.

We found it really difficult during our trip, staying with Australians everywhere, not to talk about the negatives of SA. Answering questions about crime and violence was really difficult because our kids were in CT, and we really tried to avoid those conversations as much as possible, as 'head in the sand' as that may be.

It takes all kinds to make the world go around, aren’t we lucky we live in a global village today.

Allison, I have read some of your other posts, and despite what you see in your work; you remain a positive upbeat person. Thanks for your very inspiring message!

If there’s one thing that screamed out at me while we were in that sunny country, it’s that Australia is a conditioned people – conditioned to look out for each other, conditioned to CARE.

Negativity can follow you like a cloud with a black lining. Just because people are leaving South Africa for now or ever, they would do well to remember to CARE about the country of their birth, to CARE for their fellow SA’n no matter their creed or colour - see it as practice for your new roots in Aus because you’ll need it there!!!

Edited June 17, 2008 by MelG

[sa2auz]

Hi there

I think that one has to know that you don't have to hate one country to live in another. I have very fond memories of growing up in SA nothing will change that, but I know that it is not the place for us now and for my kids and I hope that one day it will be the place that I remember as a child.

We are learning to love different things, enjoy a different lifestyle and we are appreciate that Australia has given us the opportunity to live in a beautiful country, we feel so accepted here and that is something we haven't felt for along time in SA.

[AllisonW]

It is so good to hear that some people feel the same as i do! I get overwhelmed with the negativity sometimes. I know that South Africans live under a lot of stress and that this is bound to spill over into spaces like the forum but it scares that many of us live in such fear. If one allows that sense of persecution to take over it is hard to escape. I like to feel in control and know that i am making a decision to leave because it is the right or best thing but that i am not fleeing this country. At the same time things are not okay! I accept that but we really are survivors!

Thanks for the support!

Al

[Mikej]

There is a lot said about the "tall poppy syndrome" and that it is difficult to get ahead. I dont think that is how the term is meant. It seems that Australians dont like people to flaunt their wealth or be arrogant about it and that is how I interpret the term.

The Aussies I have met mix freely across income levels. They just dont seem to judge people on their financial status. All the stories you have heard about doctors living next to diesel mechanics are true and it is also true that diesel mechanics are respected as much as doctors.

The tall poppies that get cut down are those who choose to show off their money.

For those in SA who are concerned about not being able to "make it big" in Australia consider this. Australia has half the population of South Africa yet the GDP is 5 times bigger.

The opportunities are without limit.

Michael

[Alrae Goodall]

Except for the Homecoming Revolution website, I don't see anyone explaining why they move back to SA in this forum? I like to be informed so I'll appreciate all the info I can get.

We have not left SA yet and I don't think anyone will be able to convince me otherwise - meaning not to leave in the next two months .... I know I'm going to get a huge shock after arriving in Oz and find it is NOT the land of milk and honey, but surely, it should be better than living in SA conditions.

My 10year old said the other day that he will come back to SA as soon as he turns 18. My reply to him is that he will be welcome to do so if there is a SA to turn back to.

Hi

When we left SA, my son said exactly the same. I tried to explain it was for a better future - all he could see was that he had a good life and we were happy! Why would we leave?

In fact, when he said goodbye to his friends, he told them that we only on a temp visa and we will be back in 4 yrs time. He really had a hard time dealing with giving up what he knew.

Well, after 6 months in Aus, he NEVER thinks of returning to SA.

He is immersed in his new life and loving it. The latest I hear is he wants to join the Australian Defence Force. I told him the other day that I did not bring him all the way here, just to have him go and fight in wars!!

He had a good chuckle!!

Made me also realise how our children did not have a SA Police force/ Defence Force to look up to. The idea of every little boy's dream to be an "army general" / firefighter doesn't really exist in SA anymore.

Regards Alrae

[HansaPlease]

I maybe putting myself in the line of fire here, but i am one of those people who do believe that there will be a future in SA for many people. There are many things that are good about SA and i dont believe that things will just go out of the window. Naive? maybe?

So why in light of this statement are we preparing to leave? Because i believe that things are better in Oz. As simple as that. I cant berate my SA lifestyle and say that it was so awful that i am leaving under duress. No, not at all. I am leaving because Oz has many positive things about it which fit with me and my family values well right now. I am leaving SA behind with fond memories and good family and friends and i hope to continue this positive relationship with this country. I dont feel the need to completely see everything in SA as terrible to make me feel better about what i am losing. And i know that i am losing things. But life is about give and take and if i am going to take what Oz is giving, i have to lose here. We have a good life here. I have good job opportunities a lovely home, private medical services. Now wait.... before i get reminded about crime and political instability..... I know and those are the reasons why we are leaving. I work with victims of crime every day and i know very well what we are dealing with.

I think that if one does not acknowledge the loss, the sadness and allow yourself to mourn what you are leaving behind it makes your adjustment so much harder.

I am South African and this continent has shaped me forever. I am proud of the traits that i have picked up here. I am tough. (Hell, i work in downtown JHB!!!). I am a survivor. I love the African rhythm and laughter. I love the African sky. Do i lose all of this because i leave this country? No! I have had amazing experiences with South Africans of all race and culture groups. (And yes as a social worker i have been into informal settlements and townships for many years.) People survive in SA with very little. The system may be failing us, but i am still proud to belong to a country that overthrew apartheid. South Africans are good people and i will miss them dearly.

And no doubt, even if the journey is very exciting, this will be one SA chick who will be howling into her hankie at JHB airport when we leave.

I will visit and will stay true to my roots, even while i savour all that Oz has to offer me.

Its a global village, hey?

Al

Spot on. You've summed up exactly how I feel but can't put into words.

*where's the applause smiley?*

[Andre S]

I agree with you Hansaplease! AllisonW summed it up in a pretty balanced way.

I haven't been to this site in a while and, since getting the PR visa and sending the wife off to Sydney, I had almost forgotten what it is like to mull the idea over in my head. Should I stay or should I go?

If truth be told, I have spent more time mentally being a South African in the last month than in the past few years while we were planning our "escape". Sure, I knew all the jargon, but I always felt like an outsider; someone with a secret double life! Ironically, I FEEL like a South African more than ever before but don't think of this as my home any more. I have spent quite a bit of time on the Mail & Guardian's Thought Leader blogs with a sense of detachment. This country has ISSUES! I think it is just a case of trying to get my fix before I leave - for nostalgia sake. The day we landed on Australian soil with that PR visa and unceremoniously went through customs (What, no baloons? No, welcome Mate?), Australia became my new home. A country that actually said yes, you are OK, we'll take you. No more legal restrictions on your career advancement...Besides, my wife is in Sydney now, so home is where the heart is, right?

Having been to Sydney and having started a new life over there, I have no doubt that it is the right thing for us to do. That may not be the case for everyone though. At 36, I am probably six to ten years too old to start over comfortably (psychologically), IMO. One gets set in your ways. I will just have to give it a fair go as they say. It is really frightening having to leave a comfort zone, career wise etc.

We have a very nice house which we renovated to our specifications, it is paid for and it would cost no less than $1.2million to replace in a comparable suburb in Sydney. It is unlikely that we will ever have the same material trappings as we are leaving behind in Johannesburg. I have spent weeks pacing up and down, weighing up whether we should keep the place in case we come running back in a few years time. You know what? I'm over it already! You have to decide to make that mindshift or stay and take your chances. I just don't even care about the exchange rate or the poor housing market. I'm just not prepared to sit in my beautiful home in fear, with a panic button around my neck! It gets easier, believe me. Once things start to fall into place in Australia, you start to let go of your old life. Yes, culture shock is something we are bracing ourselves for but I've heard it starts to set in after a few months of being there. It is a normal process one has to go through and some have it harder than others...

It is true, I think the Australians just have a better way of viewing the world where people aren't necessarily measured against their material posessions. We SAns put a lot of pressure on ourselves and some of us measure our own self worth against our bank balance, house or car. In Sydney, very wealthy suburbs have comparatibly affordable housing (apartments) mixed inbetween for regular folks. That's not to say that people DON"T show off! I have seen many showy exotic cars and Sydney and they pay up to 33% luxury tax to drive those cars! On the whole it "feels" like a fairer environment. No more guilt about squatter settlements...

While I think Australia is right for us, now, I don't think it is what every South Africa should be considering. We are all different and have different needs, talents etc. On the Quantas flight back to ORT, I sat next to two gentlemen, in their fifties, and we got talking. They were both wealthy self employed business owners. The one man had sold his business to an Australian company investing in South Africa and he wasn't going anywhere. He owned three luxury homes, one on the South Coast of Natal. Life was great and he was comfortably retired. The other man, also seemingly wealthy from Bryanston, was in the process of moving his family to Perth on a business visa. He was extatic and had the sparkle in his eye of a young man on the verge of an adventure. Needless to say, the man who was emigrating couldn't understand why the other one was happy to stay. (Neither could I, to be honest)

I would not normally advise people who are comfortably established in South Africa to make the big move. Emigration is not easy and it's not for everyone. Changing your whole life could be disastrous for some. It is FRIGHTENING to leave everything behind and start over from scratch! For those like us who are doing it for fear becoming a crime victims, we know that it is going to be difficult and that even if Oz is the land of milk and honey, getting some of it may require an adjustment on our part. It might not be that easy in the beginning...

Godspeed everyone!

André S

Edited June 20, 2008 by Andre S