re-route our energy poll

[Hennie-Pennie]

lets see what you guys think...

Edited June 13, 2008 by Hennie-Pennie

[sa2auz]

Hi guys

Sorry but I feel this forum is about immigrating and I think that although we have personal and sometimes strong views on certain issues we need to remain unattached and mature when in a public space. There are plenty of other places to chat and get involved in politics and the like but that place should not be on a immigration forum. There are rules for saaustralia and so often these rules are broken and members attacked and hosts and moderators bearing the brunt of it. I don't see how a subforum could work, where do you draw the line at a healthy debate? There are far to many stirrers on the forum already we don't need to encourage more, immigrating is stressful enough. When this forum was set up it was about "paying it back" helping those people immigrating and then them helping others - thats the way it should stay.

S

[MzT]

I totally understand why some of the hosts are against this. They get such a raw deal and are constantly having to try and end fights and get criticised from all angles as a result. I think that's why there would have to be clear cut rules, a zero tolerance policy for breaking them, and a separate area for these discussions to take place, that way it doesn't impact on the rest of the forum. This will be an advantage to those who are solely here for information, or to give information. They won't have their time wasted reading threads that are of no interest to them.

HP, I'm glad you volunteered to be a host. I think you'll do a great job.

[Mara]

I have a suggestion, such a forum as you guys are after already exists, try facebook, you can debate there to your hearts content. As Riekie and sa2oz pointed out, SaAustralia is actually about immigration!

[Ajay]

I am against this idea (sorry HP - nothing personal). There are more than enough good forums out there that are specifcally aimed at encouraging healthy debate and adult discussion. I don;t think that's what we are about. The problem is that although you and other members may have moved on from your original reason for being here (i.e seeking or offering advice about immigration), the same isn't true for everyone and there are still many thousands of people who need a specialised immigration forum. That's where we come in - or where we try to.

As for writing a set of rules to manage it - we already have those and the fact is that we, as Hosts, still end up being caught in the thick of it all the time because of the blatant disregard for our Usage Terms. When we try to implement a Zero Tolerance policy, we're accused of being the Thought Police. When we try back away and let things take their course, we're accused of being absent, disinterested, or just plain incompetent. So I'm not sure how things would be any different regardless of how many sub-forums we create.

I think we need to stick to our mission of being the best immigration forum around for information about coming to Australia from South Africa. I'm really happy that friendships develop - I met my best friend here - but we stay focussed on serving the needs of the majority of our members, and remember why people come here in the first place - and it isn't for debate.

Cheers

Ajay

[Hennie-Pennie]

I am against this idea (sorry HP - nothing personal).

Hi Ajay

Thanks for you opinion...and dont worry I usually dont take things personal. I still like the guidelines Hendie posted. And would love to keep on helping people like I always did. I dont want to move away from that...In actual fact I think this will allow the main stream forum to FOCUS just on that and not be high jacked by bickering and petty arguments.

I think we can make a difference and I do believe it can also serve those migrants in Australia and still in SA on understanding some issues. I also think we will learn to debate like the Australians do...in good nature...and it will help us clear our own mind on certain issues. I mean when in SA I never even knew about LPG cars and the pro and con's...now I find myself debating over lunch hour with co-workers on the matter...the same goes for "going green", self sustainable living...and then bigger issues such as LIberal or labour, work place agreements, Unions and the fishing industry, aboriginal vs african culture, whale shark hunting and culture acceptance, maturnity leave, Positive reinforcement systems...the list go on and on....How will these things NOT serve new migrants adapting too life in Australia...We can learn so much from each other and yet we end up slitting throats...And as Hendi suggested we can hide it from google and other search engines. I am sure this will make the life of the moderators easier...not harder. We can re-route those "passionate" topics to an area where it can be probed and investigated and analysed...

Maybe I am just a dreamer... but I believe we can make this forum even better by allowing some debates (no racism, no sexism, no personal attacks) to take place in a controlled manner.

[Doortjie]

I think we need to stick to our mission of being the best immigration forum around for information about coming to Australia from South Africa. I'm really happy that friendships develop - I met my best friend here - but we stay focussed on serving the needs of the majority of our members, and remember why people come here in the first place - and it isn't for debate.

Cheers

Ajay

At first I agreed with Hendie on al the points BUT after reading some of the other hosts’ sentiments I have to agree that this forum is all about the visa application, the immigration process and the settling in the new country. Debating over various subjects don’t really bring anybody closer to that goal.

We will always have the debates (“fightsâ€) on the general forum as well, even if we have a separate forum, because people have different opinions on everything in life.

I don’t really have a solution but IF Hendie decide on having such forum it should definitely be kept hidden from the “general public†- so to speak and also have a dedicated host who can look after it.

I’m not always comfortable with some views expressed on the forum and as hosts we DO get associated with almost everything going on here. Healthy debates are one thing, but I just wish people would take more care on how they express themselves on a public forum.

[Ajay]

Maybe I am just a dreamer... but I believe we can make this forum even better by allowing some debates (no racism, no sexism, no personal attacks) to take place in a controlled manner.

If it was possible to have the debates without any of the above, and for them to happen in a controlled manner, then we wouldn't have so many topics in the Cooler and we wouldn't be in the position of trying to find a way to make the forum positive again. The fact is that most people are not capable of proper debate, especially online, and when the topics are as charged as those that we face every day, even the best debaters in the world struggle in a virtual community.

Still a no from me

Ajay

[Hennie-Pennie]

If it was possible to have the debates without any of the above, and for them to happen in a controlled manner, then we wouldn't have so many topics in the Cooler and we wouldn't be in the position of trying to find a way to make the forum positive again. The fact is that most people are not capable of proper debate, especially online, and when the topics are as charged as those that we face every day, even the best debaters in the world struggle in a virtual community.

Still a no from me

Ajay

I can live with that. Thanks for spending your time on this. I appreciate all the hard work you guys (hosts)are doing in trying to keep the forum on-route.

[Riekie]

Maybe I am just a dreamer... but I believe we can make this forum even better by allowing some debates (no racism, no sexism, no personal attacks) to take place in a controlled manner.

HP, that's what all the general forums are for. For people to discuss & debate issues relating to immigration i.e. suburbs to live in vs not to live in. To buy a new car or a used car. Public or Private School? Private Health Insurance or not? Which city is best? To use an agent or not.... Often these discussions end up in huge debates anyway and slowly find their way to the cooler. If we get that worked-up about which school to go to, could you imagine the fireworks if you actually invited & encouraged debate?

I understand where you're coming from and that you want to keep the cat-fights out of the general forums. I think we all agree that we don't need all this mud slinging & personal attacks on our forum and your attempt to address this is appreciated. (More ppl should think about the way our forum is perceived before they bring out the guns....) We should not create a special place for people to misbehave though. We're all adults here and we should all learn to play the ball, not the man. There's no need for unacceptable behaviour to proof any point.

I think we've lost the plot a little... Time to step back and ask ourselves why we are here in the first place.

[Hendie]

Hmmm, ek din ek moet saamstem met die idee van terugkeer na grondbeginsels. Soos my kollegas op die gasheerspan ons so mooi herinner het: SAAustralia gaan oor immigrasiehulp. Sosialisering is 'n sekondere bonus, maar politieke en ander debattering hoort eintlik nie hier tuis nie. Ek stem dat ons dinge liefs eenvoudig hou, en ons oog (terug) op die bal hou.

[Hennie-Pennie]

Hmmm, ek din ek moet saamstem met die idee van terugkeer na grondbeginsels. Soos my kollegas op die gasheerspan ons so mooi herinner het: SAAustralia gaan oor immigrasiehulp. Sosialisering is 'n sekondere bonus, maar politieke en ander debattering hoort eintlik nie hier tuis nie. Ek stem dat ons dinge liefs eenvoudig hou, en ons oog (terug) op die bal hou.

HAHAHA Hendie se my asb jy het nie die woord EENVOUDIG en SAAUSTRALIA in een sin gebruik nie!

In elk geval. As dit julle besluit is sal ek daarby moet berrus. Ek het probeer maar sal nou grasious uit hierdie debat-stryd tree.

En aan almal wat gepost het dankie. Dit was heerlik om te sien hoeveel like minded mense daar op die forum is.

Edited June 16, 2008 by Hennie-Pennie