re-route our energy poll

[Hennie-Pennie]

lets see what you guys think...

Edited June 13, 2008 by Hennie-Pennie

[Jill]

Hi,

Lets hope everyone votes, I enjoy the hot topics, but not when they get personal, but a good debate is good for the soul.

Jill

[MzT]

Good idea to set up a poll. I've ticked a few things, but I'd like to clarify them a bit:

No racism/sexism - this is a tricky one, especially for South Africans. The racist line is drawn in different places for different people. For example, is it ok to say, "since there has been a black govt in SA the country has gone downhill?" That could be percieved as racist to some, but not to others. On the other hand, using derogatory terms to describe a race is racist to me, but others find it acceptable. So, I'd say that I don't have a huge problem with something like the example I gave, that is just an opinion, but I'd object if the words "black govt" were replaced with something insulting. I hope I'm making sense here... same goes for the sexism issue.

I think it was Mauritz who said on the other thread that it's frustrating that a topic gets closed when there could still be more said about the topic, because someone has gotten out of hand. I agree. I don't know how feasable it would be for just the offending sentences or whatever to be removed, without trashing a whole topic?

That's about all I can think of.

[Hennie-Pennie]

Yes I am also very concerned about the racism issue...I was thinking that it will be nice having a non white people able to comment and raise their opinions without being put down...but it is tricky. I myself are sometimes perceived as a racist and would like people to warn me that I am being perceived that way so I can explain what I meant by it...But not sure how we will draw the line...To carry on with your government example...if you critisise the government for the mess they made it is fine (if based on facts) but if you base your criticism just on the color of their skin and say "all black people"....then red lights should flash...fine line difficult to regulate

Edited June 13, 2008 by Hennie-Pennie

[Allie en Urs]

Good idea to set up a poll. I've ticked a few things

No racism/sexism -YIP!!!

I don't know how feasable it would be for just the offending sentences or whatever to be removed, without trashing a whole topic?

[Sam]

I voted for a separate, private place where heated topics can be debated. Let's face it, some people like/want/need controversy. No need for all to see it. I still think it is a waste of time, but at least there is a place where some can have their daily *call it what you want* without ruining the flow of Q&A on this helpful forum. It appears that sometimes life in Aus can be so dull and boring for some Saffas. Some need to get an adrenalin rush.

I feel hosts should have a zero tolerance with trouble seekers on a forum like this. This is a time where thousands of fellow South Africans are in dire straits for advice and support on emigration. Make a section for the hot topics and let those who need their daily dose go in there and have their fun without ruining it for the rest of us and for those who need a supportive environment. This forum was started with the goal of helping fellow South Africans. Remember what happened to RN? Déjà vu anyone?

[No Worries Mate]

NO RACISM

That is NOT what the forum is about!

Warnings..followed by banning! (if possible)

A

[JanCPT]

Good idea .... then those of us still in SA can get used to things being (over?) regulated.

Newbies on the forum use the forum as a source of information and later it develops into more of a social get together where they "shoot the breeze".

I think that if you apply any of the options (other than the no advertising & swearing) it would be over the top & people would be more concerned about breaking rules than having a chat

Disagreements are part of our social development & therefore our lives - without it you would never get insight into another persons thoughts, which in turn would not give you food for thought

Cheers

Jan

Edited June 13, 2008 by JanCPT

[Christina]

Hi, here are my 2c

I would suggest that if you do use a different "room" it should be password protected, in other words you have to log onto this specific room (additional to the forum logon). If one is interested in these kind of discussions, it should be an option you choose to go into, and not come up when you look for new posts. Don't know if this is possible.

With regards to racism - As said earlier, "The racist line is drawn in different places for different people." What is racism for the one is not for the other. To overcome that, I think there should be clear guidelines of which words are not to be used. The using of such words will lead to banning of the person from the forum.

Also, please keep emotions out of a discussion - stick to the substantiated facts. A lot of these discussions are pure emotion. Please respect someone else's view - even if it is not your own. He/she has a right to feel that way (we do not always know the circumstances behind someones view.)

Regard

[Guest natalie3]

Very cool poll...

I think we are misunderstood often , however, blatant "picking" on people shouldnt be condoned ,....racism and sexism are a no no...swearing i dont think is such a biggie if u just use * or # to edit the nasty bits so people get your point without having to read the full "bad word"...

[Carrie]

Very nice idea.

I think the suggestion of 'allowed entry' is a good idea... not so much from the entry point of view but, rather, if anyone oversteps the mark on a regular basis, he/she can easily be denied entry. (Kinda like the LL)

I look forward to some good insightful debates!

[Hennie-Pennie]

Very nice idea.

I think the suggestion of 'allowed entry' is a good idea... not so much from the entry point of view but, rather, if anyone oversteps the mark on a regular basis, he/she can easily be denied entry. (Kinda like the LL)

I look forward to some good insightful debates!

WOW I really did not expect such a huge response. I will try and sort out with the Forum fathers (and mothers) if this can be done.

Thanks every one. keep the ideas comming I'm really excited!

[lyall]

Great poll, all those who want a say can have it now..

I would also like to see a special room, similar to LL, where those who enjoy a good squable can discuss to their hearts content without disturbing those of us who are here for the real reason of this forum.

I also feel the moderators should take a strict stance, after a warning, should it carry on, it gets cut from the other rooms and moved to the special room. I agree noa dvertisin and no swering or blatantly discriminating language shoud be allowed.

How about when you register you have to click on to agree or not agree to abide by the forums rules. This way, if you get sent to the new room you cant complain. Sounds like school hey?!

Sometimes its hard not to let your emotions rule you..and a lot of us are stressed. The moderators are doing a great job.

Keep it up

Lyall

[Biker]

In my opinion the poll is flawed.

Where is the 'leave it as it is' button?

[Pink Missy]

This is a great idea! That mean the rest of us whor ealy just whant to hang around here can do it in peace!

[Jordy]

Hi all,

I have been a member for some months now and like all of you I enjoy the forum but the last few upsets have also made me be concerned about myself being associated with this PUBLIC forum. The views of some members (while their right to express, reflect on me because I am a member). If the forum develops a bad name then by association that affects me.

I would welcome some strong moderation on some posts. We all know how stressful and painful this move is and so I can understand the frustrations of those making the journey. But that does not mean that this should turn this forum into a place where "freedom of expression" should be tested.

I would also welcome a single thread as a cousin to the cooler. If all non-immigration, non-Australian related topics were restricted to there with restricted access (like the ladies lounge) then the remainder of the forum could be kept for the purpose of the forum namely immigration.

I personally would choose not to read them and not to respond. I want to PAY IT FORWARD but not at the cost of being labeled a racist South African Australian Immigrant just because some members make unsavioury comments.

[Rissiepit]

I think we should have a separate section, which is not open for public viewing, to house discussions not necessarily linked to immigration issues. People become "friends and foes" on forums such as these and it is a little unrealistic to expect them to stick solely to topics relating to the whole immigration thing ... not to mention wrist-slitting boring (imho).

Besides, many of us are presently in "limbo" and need a little distraction every now and then

[Hendie]

Goeie idee Hennie-Pennie! Ek het self my stemming ingesit. Hierdie is die soort inisiatief wat SAAustralia (en dalk ook ons ander suster-forums) kan onderskei van ander op die Internet. Kom ons gee dit bietjie kans, sodat nog mense hulle menings kan gee. As gasheerspan sal ons dit in camera ook bespreek, soos wie sal volunteer om die affere te modereer, en dan kan ons dit oor 'n week of so finaliseer.

Net 'n paar opmerking van my kant af:

• Aparte sub-Forum. Ek dink hierdie opsie sal die beste werk. Ek sou voorstel dat ons dit beperk met 'n wagwoord (wat nie noodwendig geheim hoef te wees nie) sodat 'n mense willens en wetens moet BESLUIT om daar in te gaan. Toegang soos Ladies' Lounge sal te veel admin afgee. Ons sal ook hierdie forum "wegsteek" van besoekers (non-lede) en die soek-enjins soos Google.
  
• Reels. Ek dink die algemene forumreels moet hier ook geld. 'n Mens sal maar oor tyd moet sien watter ander (drastiese) maatreels nodig sou wees. Speel die bal sou vir my een van die belangrikste beginsels hier moet wees. Iemand wat nie onpersoonlik kan debateer nie, sal bloot stilgemaak moet word op 'n manier.
  
• Argumenteer met die Hosts. Asseblief! Dis julle forum hierdie. Ons SOEK julle mening, ook wanneer dit met een van ons besluite verskil. Daar blyk 'n gevoel van ons vs. hulle te heers wat totaal misplaas is. Die gasheerspan is bloot "meer toegewyde" lede wat vrywilliglik hulle tyd gee om in 'n meer formele kapasiteit te help orde hou. Ek herinner ook weer almal dat dit enige lid vrystaan om aansoek te doen om by die gasheerspan aan te sluit. Hoe meer mense bereid is om 'n ogie oor dinge te hou, en te help met die algemen welstand van die forum, hoe beter vir almal!
  
• Taal. Hierdie ene is nie onderhandelbaar nie. Dit sal Afrikaans en Engels moet wees. Dis een van ons grondbeginsels - enigeen moet kan vry voel om hom/haar in sy moederstong uit te druk. Indien vertaling nodig is, kan 'n lid vra vir uitklaring. Hierdie is een van die min Internet forums waar Afrikaans as 'n reel toegelaat word. Dit sal natuurlik net hoflik wees om 'n medelid wat in Engels skryf in Engels te antwoord.
  
• Moderering. Bitter weinig. Dit behoort hier hoogs onwaarskynlik te wees dat 'n onderwerp toegemaak of geskrap word. Onthou dis 'n "privaat" kamer. Ek sou ook voorstel dat gesprekke hier ook 'n beperkte leeftyd van "stilte" moet he. M.a.w. indioen 'n gesprek vir meer as twee weke geen nuwe opinies geplaas kry nie, dan word dit geskrap.
  

Dis al waaraan ek so vinnig kan dink. Ek sal hierdie onderwerp dophou en dan kyk ons oor 'n week of so hoe dit lyk ...

[SHIRLS]

Wish I had had the chance to read the infamous topic so that I could make an "informed" comment.Am happy to let a topic role that is neither personal nor racist..........continuous offenders should then be blocked permanently from participating though !

[Gummy Bear]

Baie dankie vir jou moeite Hennie Pennie.

Ek moet se die rede hoekom ek so min op die Forum kom is juis oor baie van die goed wat jy daar genoem het.

As dit nie kan verander op die forum soos in die verlede nie moet ek se is dit nie meer so aangenaam om hier in te log nie!!!!

Dan bly ek eerder af of weg.

Ek mis die 'ou'forum soos hy was.

Groete

[Dedrei]

Ek hou baie van hierdie idee Stem 100% saam met Hendie

Daar is net mense wat van nature like om potjie te krap (om te stir). Dis net hoe hulle is en like van om te wees.

So het hulle dan hulle eie area op die forum waar hulle maar tekere kan gaan en mense kan debateer tot die son opkom.

MAAR rassisme is beslis 'n NEE!! Dit gaan nie geduld word nie.

[Dedrei]

En asb as daar mense is wat wil volunteer vir Host, by all means stuur ons 'n email support at saaustralia dot org en dan kan ons gesels daaroor. Ons het beslis meer hande nodig om te help.

[Riekie]

I'm sorry, I don't agree. We have the cooler where heated debates could continue. As it is, the simplest of threads often result into debates and end up in the cooler - why create an opportunity for people to jump at each others throats?..... I just don't see the logic here.... Is this site about emigrating or has it now become a let's fight about it site?... We're setting ourselves up for another RBN. As it is, people are accusing this forum of all kinds of things - do we really need this? Think about it....

[AndreaL]

I have voted, but don't see how this could be regulated, what offends me is as a result of my upbringing, personal experiences and specific moral and ethical code- may not offend someone else.

I once made a post, I was corrected by another forumite, my info was accurate, but I now felt as if I had been belittled- publicly.I could have responded in the heat of the moment and made an innocent comment into a huge argument.

It was only later that I realised that the person who corrected me had probably answered this particular question hundreds of times before and yes we all get tired of repeating ourselves.

That said I have avidly read through a few of the " heated debates" on the forum and thoroughly enjoyed it, until it became juvenile.

The difficulty of on-line forums is that you are not face to face with the person, tone and expression are lost, one has to rely on your word skills to relate humour, anger, sarcasm etc, I think this is often where the problems occur.

I would not like to belong to a group where freedom of speech and a right to my opinion were denied.

I am not bilingual and cannot always follow an entire subject, much as I would like to particpate........ I am wary of commenting and finding that I have offended someone whose post I did not understand and then everyone else jumps on me for being insensitive or such.

There will always be people whose opinions we don't like, the drunk guy at the bar who thinks he is witty and intelligent because he argues the opposite of you, whilst not really having any definitive belief or opinion..... he does it because he can, because it titillates him.

I choose to ignore that kind of person, politely, sometimes it is better to walk away and not be heard but retain your integrity.

Anyway, I could prattle on but at the end of the day hope that this poll results in some positive guidelines for how we treat one another and still respect our differences and right to express our own opinion.

AndreaL

[Mara]

Riekie, you took he words right out of my mouth! I agree!

[Hennie-Pennie]

Thanks everyone.

Riekie,Mara (and others) great to here how you feel as well. I think this forum has grown significantly. It has grown from being JUST a "new migrant information station". From some it has become a social gather with people from the same walk of life...We get some interesting creatures on here...I think the forum has too much energy. That energy need to be put too work...else it is going to turn into uncontrolled fights. What is great is that we then keep the debating off the rest of the forum and you can enter the debate room if you want to learn more about spesific issues. I really dont think debating and fighting is the same thing. We can take the bite out of a topic by moving it into a place where we created a culture of healthy debating. If you post in there you KNOW that someone may disagree with you and you do not take it personally...rules of debating...

If someone misbehave and keep on breaking the rules we can request him not to post in the debate room, but we DO NOT bully him or chase him away from SAAUSTRALIA....where he still may add allot of value. People who are not interested in immigration but on our life, our opinions and our issues can then come in, raise their outlook and get people to respond on it. That is how you get people to think ,to make up their minds and become more human....Just from this poll and the response we can already see how people can debate in a mature manner. To differ in opinion should not cause hirt feelings...