Sparrow Posted July 6, 2006 Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 Guys, I am really curious to know how many South Africans are currently residing not only in Australia, but in other countries. When my wife and I resigned from work and announced our plans to immigrate to Australia, we were surprised to learn how many people came to see us and confided that they too were considering such a move.I was told by the rep from our relocation company that their Pretoria office on average handles about 23 containers a month to Australia! Can this be true??? - This means that on average working with this company alone, 23 families a month are immigrating from the JHB/PTA-region to Australia?!?! She too said that they handle only about 2, maybe 3, containers a month coming into SA. Where can we find the official figures? Does anyone have an idea as to what these are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy Posted July 6, 2006 Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 Hi SparrowNot sure about the stats, but when we left NZ in August 05, NZ van Lines told us that more people returns to SA than leaving for Aus and when I started thinking to settle in Aus (May 06), the moving companies, here (SA) told me that they handle far more containers into SA than out, just for what it is worth... Remember, immigration companies only make money if you use them to get out and part of the bait, to settle your mind, is to tell you about their handling "stats" (Almost the same as time-share selling presentations…announcing the newest members that joined to force you in “making the right decision, by buying…”Does not sound right, though....But never mind how many leave in a year, if you do your homework, you are on the right track. Always remember. You and your family are the most important persons and you have to do what is right for you, not what an agent or anybody else, for that matter, says... Too many people immigrate (re-locate) to find out that what “so and so” said does not apply to their circumstances and at the end they are unhappy at a decision they made…Most important! Get as much information as you can before you make any decision. On this forum there are wonderful people that will give you first hand information and that will go out of their way to assist you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodag Posted July 6, 2006 Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 I was told by the rep from our relocation company that their Pretoria office on average handles about 23 containers a month to Australia! Can this be true???Well, there is this that says over 5000 ex-South Africans became Australian citizens in 2004-2005:http://www.citizenship.gov.au/resources/fa...stats/stats.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExASP Posted July 7, 2006 Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 just a short note..my sister is the admin manager for a very well known SA removals company and she of all people does not haveany agenda to get money out of me and she told me that they do far more exports than imports of containers. Also the imports that they do are mostly diplomats returning from their postings after it has finished. On the day that they came to pack my stuff, they were also busy doing a house for a family leaving for Melbourne. So I dont know...I think more are leaving than returning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeTee Posted July 7, 2006 Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 Also the imports that they do are mostly diplomats returning from their postings after it has finished.And other immigrants immigrating from other African countries to South Africa...Just keep in mind that there is definately an agenda by the government to spread propaganda to keep people from realising what's happening and jumping ship... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest colton Posted July 7, 2006 Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 I don't know if we will ever know the actual numbers but personally from close friends and close family of ours alone more are leaving and very very few are returning. In our family alone, 7 kids on hubbies side and 5 kids on my side, most of our family have left and are never returning. Only my brothers are in australia the rest are going to other countries, 5 on hubbies side have left or are in the process and 3 on my side. That doesn't even count cousins or distant relatives let alone friends or acquantinces. I am sure we can all name at least 3 families we know that have left and are not coming back. Can we name at least 3 families that have come back? Do the math and work it out for yourself! SCARY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohanK Posted July 7, 2006 Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 All I can tell you is the following, I am here in Oz regarding the move from SA, been there done that and wearing the T shirt. What I found is that as you say, the moment you make it public in Sa every second person can tell you a story of someone they know in Oz or Nz. Now some of them will tell you positive things and other negative things don’t listen to any of them listen to yourself. Now if you think there is a lot of people in Sa that know someone here or was thinking of migrating here wait until you are here. Everywhere you go and I mean everywhere you will run into some expat South African. All I can tell you is that if you can and WANT to move to Oz go for it. I work in the medial industry and I received an email from Medi-Clinic the other day were they said they will now be importing (if you can call it that) 66 Indian Nurses from India because of the shortage in South Africa now what does that tell you. Return to what I ask you????????????????????????????????????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riekie Posted July 8, 2006 Report Share Posted July 8, 2006 Also remember - the official figures only includes citizenship....... (i.e. when you officially emigrate) It does not include the thousands of other kinds of visas, people on business trips, (...never ending ones......), study visas (never to return.....) etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die Kotze's Posted July 8, 2006 Report Share Posted July 8, 2006 (edited) It is now conservatively calculated that 1,5 millions South Africans have left the country. Far less Afrikaans students enroll in South African universities nowadays and this figure declines annually. This is mainly because young people emigrated with their parents and are now studying in their "new" countries.Statistics show that white South Africans have a negative population growth rate. That means that the country leavers outnumber the newborns.In Canada we find that South Africans of all races are coming here. I personally know of two black doctors practising in our province. There are South Africans of all races in Nanaimo, where we live. Many emigrants sponsor their parents, so more and more elderly South Africans also emigrate.One family emigrates initially, but they are soon followed by their siblings, and then the parents join them. In the end at least three generations live overseas. In the case of some of our friends, it's four generations. Emigrating and resettling are much easier once everybody are together again. The children don't fear for the well-being of their parents anymore, brothers and sisters support each other - even if just emotionally - and the extended family ties are strengthened. It's a win-win situation.Our daughter was the first to leave South Africa and our son emigrated to the United States soon after. We came to Canada in 2001.Cathy K. Edited July 8, 2006 by Die Kotze's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riekie Posted July 8, 2006 Report Share Posted July 8, 2006 It would be interesting to know how many members of each family has emigrated. I think I'll start a poll on this...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindylou Posted July 9, 2006 Report Share Posted July 9, 2006 I'm one of two kids, my brother and family left in 2000, my mother two years ago. My dad and I are still here, I'm leaving asap. If I start to look at cousins then it just increases exponentially, with more on the way. My Sister in Law's entire family is now in Aus (altho they're originally from Zims) In total we (OH and I) know almost thirty families (close friends and family members) who have gone to Aus, NZ, Canada, USA and GB and one family has recently returned - although they've kept their US citizenship and property. For me the saddest is the older people I know who are here in SA and their children are scattered around the world. A lot of the older people feel that their lives are here and do not want to leave - remember if its a daunting prospect for us imagine how it feels to someone in their sixties or seventies. A friend of mine was telling me yesterday that she isn't part of her kids lives anymore, two are in NZ, one in Aus (Taz - just for you C'Bug) and one in Canada. She's the occasional visitor, not the granny who pops in for a cuppa. C'Lou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZHigh Posted July 10, 2006 Report Share Posted July 10, 2006 Of my immediate family we are the only ones. Of the extended family, one family left for England some 10 years ago, another has been in the USA for 40 years if not longer.I do have family that did (quietly) consider Australia but reconsidered after a LSD. That was 7 years ago. I have 2 friends in Dutch land one is a close friend, and also a close friend in Aus. Over the years I have met 'people from my past' here in New Zealand, but generally I was branded a Traitor by some for leaving SA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparrow Posted August 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 Hey Guys,Have a look at this article:http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/...1984503,00.htmlA lot of South Africans to return to SA???What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queensland Girl Posted August 17, 2006 Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 Sparrow- I really believe that if 1200 returned, there were probably double as many that left.It has alos been said that the most returnees are from the UK as some Saffers struggle with the weather.I can only speak of personal experience.We have been here for almost 5 years. We know at least 100 SA families . We know of 2 families that returned. One family returned as their visa ran out- and the other family returned as the wife was determined to hate Australia as she wanted to be with her family is SA.Good luck in making your decision. I visit Pta every year so I understand well the dilemma you must be experiencing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparrow Posted August 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 No, No, Queensland Girl. You’ve got me all wrong. I am no longer in SA. We are now in Victoria (an loving every moment of it ). I still have to update our details though. I just found the article somewhat amusing. I believe that there are a number of people who return to SA due to the fact that their visas expired, or that they found it difficult to settle in as a result of the weather or whatever. However, I also think that many of them are in fact not returning to settle in SA for long (as it would seem in the article…). They still may have some interests in SA but I think that they soon will be off again, probably for keeps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queensland Girl Posted August 17, 2006 Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 Hi Sparrow-ANOTHER blonde moment!Do you in your personal circle know of any families who have returned? I sometimes read these things in the press and wonder???Really????Who are they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparrow Posted August 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 My cousin worked in the States for a while but returned when his work visa expired. I also know of a number of people from the defence industry who worked in the UK, France and Sweden. They went abroad on work visas or long stay visas but had to return after a certain period when they duty tours expired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohanK Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 Ok, all of us that went through this thing can probably remember how many people we came into contact with the moment we made it public that we are going to leave the country. Some told us we were mad, some envied us as they knew they could unfortunately not get out and into a place like Oz, others did not say a word and then you got those that told you they were also thinking of leaving. Now according to me this is were these kind of articles comes from, I think there is a lot of people sitting in Sa that can leave but just don’t know yet. They still have not made a decision to leave Sa but it is more a question of “I am not sure about this, will it be the right thing to do.”Organizations like Solidarity and Afriforum in South Africa know this and they pounce on this according to me. Lets think about this clearly for a wile, if you are still in Sa and you are not 100% sure of the move and you read something like this you will also think about it twice. Organizations like this wants to create the impression the a hell of a lot of people are returning to South Africa as they know there are those still living in Sa that wants to leave but still have not made up there minds, and articles like this might just help them to make the choice to stay, I mean everyone is returning so lets stay and welcome them. Yes sure people return but they want to make it into this thing of thousand and thousands of people are coming back to good old Sa. I am still doing some work for a company in Sa as they needed my skill and are now willing to pay me a lot of Rand to see out there contract but I still speak to a lot of South Africans on a daily basis and the first thing they ask me is “So when are you coming back” or “Don’t you want to come back we hear it is not that nice in Australia” This is all propaganda and feeding the Sa public good old fashioned Bull Sh%t as they need them to stay. People are ill informed.Last time I looked on the Dimia website, and this was last years stats so I speak under correction more the 5600 South Africans permanently migrated to Oz for that year and 356 permanently returned to Sa for that year. I will try to get the updated stats and post it if I can find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olly Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 I know of two families that returned and are still in Cape Town. My eldest brother returned for a year then left again, and my youngest brother was adamant he was going to return next year but has suddenly changed his mind and is applying to come to Aus instead. It is true you bump into SAffers every day here, after 8 years in the Northwest of England, I feel like I am back in SA as I hear Afrikaans spoken by parents at school daily.Oh, I forgot to mention that all the people I was talking about returned from the UK not Aus and the weather had alot to do with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sunshine Sister Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 Hi there,Interesting topic ! Sparrow I quote the following from the news24 article :They return from the United Kingdom, America, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the Netherlands. As far as the Netherlands goes, they are one of the most statistics preoccupied countries you have ever seen. So if what this article suggests is in fact true and ppl are migrating at a considerable rate back from the Netherlands, to South Africa, we should be able to pick it up from the Official Dutch Statistics. A little visit to www.cbs.nl - Centraal bureau voor de statistiek - Nederland (Statline database) reveals the following : Foreigners living in the Netherlands with South Africa as their place of birth :1996 86091997 88671998 92801999 101412000 106392001 112862002 119842003 122642004 122922005 122742006 12221Take into account that these numbers will not include any children born in the Netherlands, nor any ppl who have naturalized since their arrival...I don't see thousands (nor hundreds) of ppl streaming back according to these statistics... If the article was wrong about the Netherlands, should we believe their claims with respect to any other countries ? Home coming revolution ?? I don't think so ! LoveSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olly Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 Maybe for every 1 family returning 100 are leaving. Surely all those leaving and not coming back can't all be wrong. There IS life outside SA and for many it is better than the quality of life in SA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willie Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 Well personally I do not know anyone who came back except those who's wife's and children still are here and they are working contracts somewhere in the world. What I can tell you is that in the last three months I am the 4th person to leave for Australia from the company I work for(Workforce of about 500 people), From BHP hillside in Richards bay three guys left for Aus in the last month(study mates), My sister in law moved to Ireland about two months ago as her daughter has been there for the past two years. My brother in law (a Dutch citizen) just send his eldest son to Europe to go and see if he is able to find work there(he has a masters degree electronic engineer and aced all his subjects right through University and can not find work in RSA. My sister is waiting for feedback from me as to how I experience Aus before she makes a decision, My brother thinks we are traitors . Another friend at the company I work for plan to go to the USA in Dec, he already have his visas, Five more people at the company I work for are awaiting decisions on their visa applications from Aus, Canada and the UK. Several others asked me to forward the info I collected to help them make a decision.Thus I can say I am fairly confidant that the emigration drive in RSA is well healthy and growing stronger in any way that's what it looks like to me. As far as the Gov propaganda is concerned I do not understand how they can make statements like more people is coming back than going if their official statisticians acknowledge their stats is nothing but a guess based on known inaccurate info? I do not doubt there is people coming back but if I look at other countries foreign populations and specific their SA resident immigrants it seems to be growing all the time and definitely not falling. If you look at the population growth stats in RSA you see a sharp drop in especially the white population(the Indian and colored population is also growing much slower) in RSA and it had a huge decrease in numbers in 1994-6 after which it dropped off slightly but is falling drastically again. More parents are considering emigration that ever before due to their kids not being able to secure a permanent job in SA or getting access to universities.I don't know maybe I just see the exodus because I am trying to convince myself I am doing the right thing but I tried finding info to the contrary this morning and came up empty handed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willie Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 (edited) I just found this interesting PDF about South Africans emigrating http://www.queensu.ca/samp/migrationresour...nts/myburgh.pdffrom NZ http://www.stats.govt.nz/NR/rdonlyres/10C6.../0/Table902.xls Edited August 18, 2006 by Willie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest colton Posted August 18, 2006 Report Share Posted August 18, 2006 (edited) As I posted earlier, most of my immediate family have gone and don't intend returning. As for those that are returning I personally know of a couple of friends who have returned. Friends who left for Germany and were there for 5 years came back, financially very difficult to survive there, (their opinion) but have kept their german passports "just in case". A young couple we know went to Aus., were really abused by their sponsor, life was absolutely miserable and have returned never to go back to Australia but are now looking at going to Canada, they have parents and siblings there. My daughter's teacher and her family left for Australia 7 years ago but have just come back, they did not like the fast pace of Sydney and missed family back here, but are not giving up their australian passports "just in case". My youngest brother was in England for two years, hated the weather and came back but leaving for australia with us asap.So as far as I can tell people may be returning but not with the intention of staying for ever. The weather and missing family and the support system back home seems to be the driving force behind those returning, but all are keeping the "back door" open for "just in case". I think if you ask the majority of those returning you will hear the same reasons for coming back, not because they think it's going to be any different or better and they all have an escape route planned. Edited August 18, 2006 by colton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Thomas Posted August 20, 2006 Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 As I posted earlier, most of my immediate family have gone and don't intend returning. As for those that are returning I personally know of a couple of friends who have returned. Friends who left for Germany and were there for 5 years came back, financially very difficult to survive there, (their opinion) but have kept their german passports "just in case". A young couple we know went to Aus., were really abused by their sponsor, life was absolutely miserable and have returned never to go back to Australia but are now looking at going to Canada, they have parents and siblings there. My daughter's teacher and her family left for Australia 7 years ago but have just come back, they did not like the fast pace of Sydney and missed family back here, but are not giving up their australian passports "just in case". My youngest brother was in England for two years, hated the weather and came back but leaving for australia with us asap.So as far as I can tell people may be returning but not with the intention of staying for ever. The weather and missing family and the support system back home seems to be the driving force behind those returning, but all are keeping the "back door" open for "just in case". I think if you ask the majority of those returning you will hear the same reasons for coming back, not because they think it's going to be any different or better and they all have an escape route planned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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