Question about Hillsong Church

[Riekie]

Maar hillsong is soos 'n wolf in skaap klere.

Ek wou net gaan kyk het wat daaraan gaan. Ek was geskok.

Al die tekens van 'n cult is daar.

Nee, dit maak my baie kwaad, want die soort mense gee vir ware christn, 'n slegte naam.

Jong, klink of jy 'n hengse ervaring gehad het om so geskok te moes wees - wat het gebeur?! Jy sê al die tekens van 'n cult was daar - wat is die tekens wat jy gesien het toe jy daar was wat jou oortuig het dit is 'n cult? Daar is baie mense wat Hillsong toe gaan en 'n ernstige stelling wat jy maak. Kan jy asb met ons deel?

[Jitterbug]

Hi All

Ive only just skimmed through this thread, as some of you have given such long replies

but the issue has reminded me of a church i used to attend in Bloemfontein that had a congregation of about 20 000. that church has made such a huge impact on the lives of thousands of people because of what they do. hundreds are saved every week. they have ministries like soup kitchens, community centres, street ministries, and all sorts of other projects. I was a student then, living off of bursaries and bank loans,and i tithed 10% of what i had, which wasnt much.

I believe that tithing makes you a partner with the church. tithing allows the church to make an impact on the community. have you ever been to a church where the members only gave what they felt like giving, and that church actually made a difference and prospered in their ministry? i havent.

tithing means that people will be saved every week. just that alone should be worthy of your tithe. this is souls im talking about - they are precious. so if a good sound and audio system helps then thats what the church should aim for.

so tithe if your heart believes in what your church is doing, or if you cant, find some other way to be a partner - like volunteering in a ministry. but dont ever feel bad about giving. giving should be with a happy heart.

[Guest natalie3]

Ok..let me start by saying that the terms : cult,sect, religion have been used incorrectly for ages..they refer to the amount of followers (in the stated order)..eg..20 000 and under =cult...sect 100 000 and under etc..

So it doesnt give an indication of the "validity" or "truth" behind a churchs' teachings..

Having said that..my 2c is as follows :

"the poor will get poorer..and the rich will get richer"..not sure of the exact scripture..but u get the idea..Money has caused trouble for all of religions' existence...money being a human..not Godly commodity..

Now money can do a lot of good in todays world..missionary work, helping the poor etc..

But,,it is often abused...dont fool yourselves..many many churches use our christianity to get us to give out of guilt..

I have heard from a friend (whos name i wont mention) that they haevstarted attending hillsong and have met wonderful people and enjoy the services..and i say good for them..that church works for them..for now..bonus!

As far as tithes go...i am catholic myself..and have never..not once in all my years of memory had a request for 10% of my income from a priest, decon, nun, or a montsignor...i have NEVER seen a priest in a BMW..and to tell u the truth..i like it that way...

I know my "donation" is going to a soup kitchen in sunnyside and to the "Aids care-packs" that my parish organises..

But my interpretation of "give 10% of everything to God"...is more spiritual..10% of my time..10% of my thoughts etc...

I only give when i know exactly where it is going...and if i dont like it..i give that amount to the next family member or friend that is in need...charity starts at home and all...

The roman catholic church is VERY rich..yet sontaions are given in secret mostly (envelopes with no name on can be put in the collection box)..and smaller "token" amounts ..as in small change..is given in the collection...

Money is great..dont get me wrong..but its a very delicate situation when u add it to religion....

Hope i didnt offend or upset anyone...just my feeling..

[Peanuts]

Now this makes for some interesting reading…

Just a few quick thoughts:

Everyone has valid points and we can argue for hours over the church, money, cults etc.

I believe God loves us pondering, sharing and debating over his teachings and his word.

We should however be careful not to judge anyone, anything or any place.

If you feel uncomfortable in your church, you should move on. It’s always good to have an opinion and to share your opinion with others. To judge the church, the pastor or the people attending in my opinion, is wrong.

Go to Hillsong, have a look around. Maybe you will be able to grow as a personally and spiritually. If not, move on, go to a church where you will be comfortable and where you will be able to grow.

Never judge anyone on the way they choose to worship God and don’t judge people, you don’t have the right!

[Adventurer]

..... Never judge anyone on the way they choose to worship God and don’t judge people, you don’t have the right! ....

Amen.

[SueB]

One definition of a cult is this. Use it, don't use it.

"A cult is a group or movement exhibiting a great or excessive devotion or dedication to some person, idea or thing and employing unethically manipulative techniques of persuasion and control (e.g. isolation from former friends and family, debilitation, use of special methods to heighten suggestibility and subservience, powerful group pressures, information management, suspension of individuality or critical judgment, promotion of total dependency on the group and fear of [consequences of] leaving it, etc) designed to advance the goals of the group's leaders to the actual or possible detriment of members, their families, or the community." [29]" Wikipedia

[Julian (Jules)]

To use the term "cult" is very extreme.

I've been to charasmatic churches in SA and always enjoyed the vide and atmosphere - it was ALIVE.

But, yes, I agree there was always too much emphasis on money. I always thought why dont they let the spirit of God speak to the people to give.

By the way, I LOVE, LOVE Hillsongs music. And yes I'm sure they ask for lots of money from members (most charasmatic churches do), but that church makes a lot of money from their music too.

As for the pastor there - the speakers' circuit worldwide is VERY well paid so I have not issue that he is wealthy. A popular speaker and bestselling author can literally make millions of (honest-earned) dollars. If he makes millions on the side then it is likely that he tithes MORE than his church salary.

I never got too tied up in the money thing - I followed my heart. Sometimes I gave and sometimes not.

Edited July 20, 2008 by Jules

[CandiceM]

OK my post is ver very long,is my opinion, includes my very personal testimony (the short one, you don't want the long one trust me haha), may deviate slightly off the topic of specificaly Hillsong church and may be considered preachy. But hopefully it will all tie up to why I believe what I believe. You have been warned

I have absolutely no problem with the mini sermon on tithing that I think most charasmatic/new covenant churches have prior to the main sermon of the service. I got a a charasmatic church in Perth, and I attended one in Jhb. The one is Jhb was a big congregation and in fact we had just moved into our new buildings in June. We had a building fund that we contributed to, over our tithes. In fact at my last service we attended in SA we pledged R1000 to the building fund which we paid after we got to Perth. The building is magnificent! It has a big auditorium and childrens church, coffee shop, bookshop etc. I thought it was wonderful building and many millions of rands were spent on it. In fact one member of the church gave 1 million on his own, and in his own testimony was greatly rewarded. The last call for money (which is when i pledged R1000) was to cover the last R3mill outstanding. So in other words the building is debt free

I think we are short sighted if we (Christains) see just the buildings as an example of being ostentacious. I think the real question we should ask ourselves is this building going to lead someONE to Christ. And I mean that, if it leads one person to think wow, interesting building nice coffeshop, maybe I could go to the service, and that person gets saved then that should be enough reward. Now I can imagine someone reading this might think I am just a teensy bit naive or maybe been drinking to much of the kool-aid, but the reality of hell is real to me. And if I am a Christian (which I am), and I believe the bible is infallible and contains the whole truth, nothing added, nothing taken away (which I do) and if I believe everything that Jesus did for me on the cross was to prevent me from burning in hell for ETERNITY, then I know for sure thats not a place I want to go. So if at the end of days that ONE person is your son, daughter, mother father etc, I think you would see those millions as money well spent.

In terms of ostentacious giving you could even take a example from the new testament, Matt 26:6-13 when the woman opens an alabastar jar of fragrant oil and pours it over Jesus' head. The disciples critisised her saying she wasted it and that she could have sold the jar, which was equal to a years wages, and give it to the poor. Jesus rebuked them and said you should give to the poor but don't critisise her because she chose to honour me with it. Amazing to me that Jesus said this story of this nameless woman would be known whereever the Gospel was preached. Why? Because I believe God requires sacrifice from us in all aspects of our life especially financially, as this seems to be the part of our life where few of us are as giving. So I don't think big building like the proposed Hillsong building offends God at all, IF it is going to be used to further the gospel and bring glory to his Name, which I believe it will.

The scriptures given, before the tithes and offerings are to confirm God's promises relating to tithes and offerings. If you don't agree with what is being said then i think its your duty as a Christian to discuss it with a pastor or elder, whether they be in your church or unrelated to your congregation. The beauty of the bible is that it is personal. Those scriptures speak to you and if they don't convey the same message as being taught at the service then you need to question it. We aren't meant to be mindless beings (free will remember) and the bible encourages us to question what we believe to be untrue. It warns us against false prophets and teachers.

We tithe ten percent, of our gross income (including super). Why? because thats what I believe the bible commands me to do, when the bible says in Malachi, bring ten percent to the storehouse (your church) I believe it wholly. This is because God has convicted ME in my heart that this is what he requires from ME. I can't speak for anyone else, what God tells you and what you give the church in offerings and tithes is between you and God. Come judgement day I have to answer for me, and only me.

So saying this I will give you my short version testimony. In 2003 I fell pregnant with my son, my husband and I weren't married at the time. We struggled financially BIGTIME. Credit cards were maxed out, only had one car, we lived in these crappy houses. We started going to church in 2005, possibly the hardest year in our lives, it went sort of like this.

April-son hospitalised with asthma, took off work to look after him for one week, I worked as a contractor and was paid by the hour, no work no pay. July - son attacked by a dog in our complex, hospitalised and surgery, plus complications from aneasthesia got pneumonia. July - get out of hospital on monday, dog rushed to vet tues sick R2000 op. Thursday after get out from hospital my mom dies (age45), scrape money together to go the Durban to sort out funeral etc. She dies penniless, help pay funeral expenses. Week without work. Oct - on the way to hospital, ER (Luke has pneumonia again, complication from asthma), get rear ended by truck. Luke hospitalised, i have whiplash, car severely smashed. Phone employer to say i won't be working the entire week, since son is in hospital, she says she has orthodontist appointment next day, i MUST come in or else... Or else happens. 2 months to fix our car, so kind couple at the church lend us a car. We have NO money, literally nothing to eat in the house, day by day and by Gods grace money or food finds it way into our hands. Dec - Luke hospitalised again. So as you can see 2005 was definately not our year, however God did show us many things that year, especially the meaning of grace, how he provides for us (and how to accept a handout, I was particually proud, as both Steve and I come from somwhat wealthy families).

So if you are still reading this is where the story turns for us. We had decided in Dec 2005 that we were living in sin and it was time to get married. had started planning this magnificent white wedding in my head, as us girls are prone to do. It turned out totally different, the wedding happened two months later at the beginning of March, it took us 6 weeks to plan, had 30 friends and hubbys family and cost under R6K, my family could not understand the rush, so none of them came.

Very hard time in my life and i didn't understand alot of things but we soldiered on. At this time just after we got married both my husband and I felt our season at this church had ended and we started attending the big church from earlier in my post. We had been tithing since December 2006, and miraclously we were surviving, not well off by any means but the creditors weren't pounding on the doors as much.

fast forward to Feb 2007, I was tired of just surviving and during those little mini sermons, the scripture in Malachi was quoted, with the part that says test me. So I told God I was upping the ante and I was going to test him in his promise to me. I got the little tithing envelope and put R5000 as what I wanted to be able to tithe. Put it in my bible notebook.

In reality we were getting just over R16000 a month, so tithing R1600. I also realsied that if i wanted more i was going to have to proactive. The company that hubby was working for was a small operation with few staff and a lot of family in the mix. He had just got a raise of R2000, but in reality we still couldn't really afford to live on it. And considering Steve's qualifications and his experience, not to mention 12 hour days and weekend work. He asked for more money. On asking for more money hubby was told Candice may have told you, you are worth more, ut you are not. So I got on the net and posted his CV on about 10 sites and applied for jobs. The next week hubby had interviews at the end of the second week three confirmed job offers, all offering around R27000 all offering to match the other, all with national and in some cases international companies. We went with Murray and Roberts and I asked the pesonnel agent to give us the highest they were willing to go, We signed for R27500. Steve started in May 2007. In August we received an email, from Australia would we consider going to work there. Two weeks later a job offer and a verbal salary $92000 a year, a week after that signed job offer, with salary in black and white. $100K a year.

In my mind I did this 100K x 6 (the exchange rate at the time) divided by 12 = R50000 a month gave me R5000 tithe. God honoured my request in 6 months we went from R14000 a month to at that time roughly the equivalent of R50000. call it coincedence, luck whatever you want to. But i call that God!

There is a verse in the bible (2 Corinthians 9:7) that talks about giving what you have decided in your heart. So if you feel God has spoken to you and in your heart you have decided to give x then thats what you should give. No amount of preaching from the pulpit should change that, if in your heart/spirit you believe you should give x and you have done so. I think people start feeling guilty, when the preacher is up there. Thats when they feel forced and grudginly give (second part of the above verse) And then you have to question why are you feeling guilty, what is pricking your conscience. I admit i used to feel guilty sometimes, why? because sometimes I felt oh we can't give for x, yand z reasons. I knew what God wanted of me and I would try and rationalise why i didn't do it (so not being a cheerful giver there)

So the above addresses my response to, the fancy buildings, and the asking for money at every service.

My second thing I want to address is that of preachers, pastors etc living extravagantly.

We are not called to live in poverty. in fact we are called to live prosperous lives BUT not just financially, prosporous in ALL areas of your life. If you think God's teaching on prosperity only applies to finances then you aren't living the life God wants for you. He wants prosperity in all areas of your life, spiritually, emotionally, physically, and financially. Also people think prosperity only means rich, but it also means victory, accomplishment, successfulness etc.

I have quoted the post below because I agree 100% with what he/she has said. Especially this

(1) Our responsibility is to do what God has commanded us to do in his word, regarding finances. We will be held accountable for that. Regardless of what leaders do with tithes and offerings, that does not excuse us from obeying the word. Pastors and leaders of the church are responsible for doing what God commands in his word, and they will be held accountable for that.

(2) Pasters and church leaders give up their lives to the word and to preaching it. They derive a living from doing this just like we derive a living from doing our jobs - their jobs are preaching the word. Some of the churches mentioned in this thread are in very affluent areas. The parish attend in merc's and BMW's and earn massive salaries. But, when the pastor that looks after them takes a salary, or buys a merc, or lives in the same area as them, we get bent out of shape. Why is that? Why is it that we expect the Pastor, who unlike us, gave up everything to be dedicated to preaching, to live a lower standard than the people he preaches to? W� don't expect that of senior business men, or political leaders, or governing bodies, so why do we set that standard for the church?

(3) Leaders of corporations get paid large amounts of money to provide vision, direction and leadership to the companies. They get all kinds of percs, like private jets, drivers, top hotels, housing, pensions, reduced interests, executive contributions, corner offices, assistants etc. Many of the churches mentioned in this thread have congrigations of 10,000 and more, and yet, we expect the leaders(pastors) to to live wihout any benifits? We expect them to get no benifit from us, and yet they give up their lives to spend with God in prayer and fasting etc to get his vision and dirction and leadership for the congrigation. Why is that?

And all of this!

(4) The whole world makes use of advertising to get us to spend our hard earned cash. Business, Hollywood, shools, governments, retailors etc Many use this for immoral reasons (not all) No one has an issue with this. Why is it then when the church asks for funds, everyone gets bent out of shape? When a church wants to expand, get more programmes going, improve the complex, everyone gets upset?

(5) Business are continually upgrading their offices, buildings, making more space. Goverment departmetns build admin blocks to house their adminstrative functions, some in really good areas at massive costs. Policing, post offices, courts etc own some of the best sites in CBD's and no one has an issue with this. But, when a church with several thousand congregation and many out reach programmes wants ot build an adim block, or offices, or traning rooms, or wants to hire staff or expand we all get really ticked off. Why is that? What value do we attribute to the church in our community?

(6) All of us have great gadgets - whatever the hobby we all have them and probably spend thousands on them every year, fishing, motor cycles, cars, GPS, 4x4 etc etc We all take leave, time off, go on holidays. Some have more than one home, one in town and one or more at the beach, lake etc Why is it then that when the Pastor has a hoby and provides for that, for time out, for relaxtion, for holiday that everyone gets all bent out of shape? How many of you would sell your prized hoby gadget and give the money to the poor? No? Then why do you expect the pastor to?

(7) When music, films, books, intelectual property in an office or business is copied or distributed to the detrement of the company, and lawsuits ensue, no one has a problem with this. We watch or listen to the case for months. But, when churches or christian bands etc do the same our view is its because they are gready. We are happy for secular businesses to protect themselves, because this upholds our laws and constitutions and makes us feel good about ourselves and the society we live in, but when the same laws are applied to revenue that is used to further the gospel, everyone gets upset?

(8) No one has an issue with stadiums being build for rugby world cups, or 2010 soccer, no one has an issue with tickets being sold and infact I know of people who paid updwards of R50k to go the RWC in Parris. But, let a church want to increase its auditorium size to get more people in, or set up a conference and charge to cover costs and everyone gets bent out of shape?

(9) Why is it that we, the very people who complain about the church are more than happy to save money in the bank, buy shares, invest in schemes that will make us more money, but when it comes to investing in the church and saving souls, we get upset? We measure the church leadership on things we ourselves dont do. How many of you would be upset if your local rugby or football club built new premises or upgraded the changing rooms, or build a new stadium. Why then do we get upset with the Church?

(10) If we give up our jobs and invest all our time and money into a business to make it work, we expect to get a huge profit from it. We expect the effort and reward (I am talking about the financial part now in line with the thread - there are obviously many other reasons for busines) to be way in excess of what we invested. Why is it then when pastors do the same to build up a church (some of them take years to establish), and they give up careers, money, finances, family etc we get upset that when the church succeeds, the pastor does well. Maybe, we should be thinking that some of these pastors are reaping the rewards for giving, not just 10% of their earnings, but their entire lives.

(11) How many of us go to theme parks, the movies, theatre and we expect to be entertained with the best, the best light shows, the best sound and quality and these places spend billions. Whats more, we are happy to pay hundereds in entrace fees just to be entertained for a few hours. No one has an issue with a theme park that has show after show on saturday and sunday. Why then do we get upset when the church does the same? Have you ever read about the temple of Solomon and how it was decorated? WOW!! Now many of you may be thinking, yes, but God doesn't live in a building, and your right he doesn't. But we should apply the same standard to all things. How many of us have written to government to stop funding for middle class families so that we can give to the poor? No? I have read many comments on the refugees in several other threads on this site - that would be the poorest of the poor right and what were the thoughts and suggested actions of most?

This doesn't seem very consistent. Many of these churches and the pastors mentioned in these threads have been part of winning millions of souls collectively to the Lord. Maybe thats the criteria to measure on and not our obligation to giving or our perception of what they have or don't have.

Running a church, funding out-reaches, hiring staff, buying equipment etc costs large amounts of money. Did you know that according to world stats, less than 20% of church going members tithe? What would happen if less than 20% of tax payers paid taxes? The government has legislation to prevent that - you go to jail.

And i also agree with all of this, some of which I have duplicated in my post

Have you ever been to the Hillsong conference? The cost of the tickets only covers a small amount compared to what it costs to run the conference. Well the church picks up the difference. Why does Hillsong run these conferences? To equip local and international churches to help their communities.

Why is it that people are comfortable to pay X or more for a rugby ticket to see a rugby game once, but they are uncomfortable in give half of that to church, and seeing how it is used to make a difference in people around them lives. Hillsong is by far not perfect. Which church is? Show me another church that has bent over backwards to try and make a difference in the community. Hillsong is one of them. I personally think that one of Hillsong�s biggest mistakes has been in not highlighting more strongly all the community projects that it has been involved in and continues to be involved in.

The facilities that have been available through Hillsong have been there because the congregation has been faithful with what God has placed in their hands. People have sacrificed financially because they want to help build our community. The services that the church provides and the infrastructure behind it all cost money. If the community can�t turn to the church, who else will they turn to? What are you doing through your local church to make a difference in the community? Unfortunately, in this life, nothing is for free - only God�s love, his word, his grace and forgiveness. If I can in any way be part of making people aware of this one free thing in life, I�m happy to do so. I believe the content should stay the same. It is just often the packaging of that content that should change. If it is the flashy lights that will draw people to church, so be it. Ultimately it is only God�s word that will keep people in church.

Bottom line there are hundreds of denominations out there and thousand of churches. Each with its own doctrine and way of doing things. Some things I agree with some I don't. But at the end of the day we are all unique individuals so it makes sense that there is alot of different churches catering to different tastes, some like it conservative, some like it dancing in the aisles. But don't not do what the bible tells you to do because your particular church does not make emphasis on it.

Lets not use our grievences, offended souls, perceived failings, anger etc at/of certain churches, denominations, pastors, christian leaders, other christans etc as excuses not do what God has told us to do through his spoken word, the Bible. Because at the end of days this is what we will be judged against.

Candice

[Biltongboer]

Good post Candice, I agree with you fully.

In my opinion, most of these comments in this topic, refering to "cults", are based on a Reformed theology background, especially the NG Kerk. I grew up in the NG Kerk, and I was taught that anything charismatic or pentacostal is evil, and money is not talked about in church - that is the job of the Deacon who has to go beg at your house when no one else can see it.

[Alibaba]

Please do not make the NG church so negative. In the last one we attended back in SA they also preached about money and they applauded the work the charismatic churches were doing openly from the pulpit, but the pastor of the charismatic church always had these "jokes" he made about the NG church (we attended there too a few years back). Makes me wonder? If both serve the same God, preaches the same bible and save people to see they are worthless without God who are we as people to judge any way of preaching? It's not our role. God said we must be fishers of men and that is our task and what church we choose to attend makes no difference, because people are all different and different churches serve different personalities. My opinion in any case.

[A&A]

Biltongboer,

I was brought up in the Dutch Reformed Church and we were always seen as a bit more "uptight" than the "NG" Church - and I must say in the time I've spend their (and I were part of them for well over 30 years), I never heared any referrals to Charismatic movements as being "Cults" (Nie my ouers, dominiee of ouderlinge betrokke by katagese). Might be that it was individuals that said so and I don't think it is fair to generalise what you might have heared from individuals to all Reformed Churches.

Candice,

Thanks for your post I really enjoyed reading it. Thanks for sharing your experience so far and what change faith and believe in God brought to you and your families lifes (No matter what denomination). It makes one pick up your head (and yourself sometimes) and hold on to your faith even if some days are very hard to cope with.

Tnx

Anellé

Edited July 21, 2008 by A&A

[Biltongboer]

Please do not make the NG church so negative. In the last one we attended back in SA they also preached about money and they applauded the work the charismatic churches were doing openly from the pulpit, but the pastor of the charismatic church always had these "jokes" he made about the NG church (we attended there too a few years back). Makes me wonder? If both serve the same God, preaches the same bible and save people to see they are worthless without God who are we as people to judge any way of preaching? It's not our role. God said we must be fishers of men and that is our task and what church we choose to attend makes no difference, because people are all different and different churches serve different personalities. My opinion in any case.

You seriously expect me to say nothing when the charismatic church is referred to as a cult? If you are offended by (true) statements about the NG church, how much more are Hillsongers offended by this whole post? Take what you dish out, that's the rules of the game...

Oh, and it was more than one Dominee that taught this about the "happy clappies" at SKJA and sunday school. I'm not making it up.

Edited July 21, 2008 by Biltongboer

[milo]

Good post Candice, I agree with you fully.

In my opinion, most of these comments in this topic, refering to "cults", are based on a Reformed theology background, especially the NG Kerk. I grew up in the NG Kerk, and I was taught that anything charismatic or pentacostal is evil, and money is not talked about in church - that is the job of the Deacon who has to go beg at your house when no one else can see it.

Don't want to stir the pot further. But I grew up in a small town in the Free State. Anything not NG was regarded as evil. We were often teased about the way we do things in our churches. Even a teacher commented that we don't stand a chance of ever getting into heaven, because we weren't baptised as babies and confirmed at 16. It hurt me then, and it still hurts when people criticise churches. It should be all about God, not us.

Let people worship God the way they feel comfortable. There will always be debates around this. Whether you prefer to jump around or not, it's about your relationship with Him that matters.

There's much more that can be said - but let it rest now. We are serving and worshipping God, not man.

[Gerrie-Brissie]

Hi All,

I read through this whole thread and was sometimes chuckling and at other times I became somewhat heated under the collar.

After all that was said, I am convinced that the reason why there are so many different chuch groups is that when someone should stand before the Great White Throne at judgement day, there will be no excuse as to say that there was never a chuch group where I could not feel comfortable to worship.

The most diverse religion is still Christianity. We are known as the most lenient religion as to allow others to worship God the way they feel comfortable and it should stay like that too!

When it comes to finance, we are sometimes not lenient at all. Here too the going thought should be to allow others to do as they feel comfortable. When attending a Church Service and you do not agree with all that goes on or with all that is said or prcticed there, simply go to where it suits your way of thinking better.

In my humble opinion, church groups in the past spent too much energy and time trashing other Christian groups about tine differences they had or imagined they had, while forgetting the real issue. This is to get out and tell people the truth about the sacrifice Jesus made for us. His sacrifice is the reason we attend church in the first place. He paid for our transgresions that we may live a life that will contibute towards the spreding of the Good News (that is what the word GOSPEL means).

Everything we do should be towards this goal.

In the first place because we are so eternally gratefull to the Almighty God for not holding us accountable for our trespasses.

Secondly because we believe the Bible and do not want anyone to land in the place called Hell.

Thirdly because to do this is so rewarding in every way that not to do it is simply also not an option.

I do agree that not all of us could go and preach the gospel to others, but at least we could contribute towards sending others to do just that. In this respect we do have to think of the challenge of Malachi 3:10 (Please do read this in your own Bible). Tithing is something that brings PROSPERITY into our lives. Maybe not in the sense of money, but that our tithing contribution enables others to preach and thus when someone comes to faith through their preacing, we have a part in the reaping of the harvest.

In my life I have found that since I started tithing, I never lacked anything that I needed. I will go so far as to say that everytime I needed something I could remind God that I was doing the right thing and that He promised me to bless me if I do that.

He has never failed me yet!

One thing I am quite certain of is that Gods intention never was that one Christian should call another anything but "Brother or Sister" let alone "sect" and other degrading names.

Please let us live and work together to further the Kingdom of God and not fight one another about how to worship the Giver of all!

God bless.

[Kapoen]

Candice,

Great post! i have a similar story but just for us to start paying our tithe, we decided one month to pay 10% and seeing that we did not have that amount spare in the budget, we decided we would not buy groceries and save on petrol by joining a lift club or something in order to be able to pay the tithe. One week after paying our 10% we received a cheque 10x the value of our offering, from the Reciecver of Revenue (no less), a cheque that was never in the cards as we were expecting to pay in on personal tax!

How Great is that! God is faithfull in all His promises!

[Marius & Euneze]

Hi Milo, Sonnetjie, Candice, Biltongboer, Kapoen

Amen to you all!

[Flanker]

Candice,

Great post! i have a similar story but just for us to start paying our tithe, we decided one month to pay 10% and seeing that we did not have that amount spare in the budget, we decided we would not buy groceries and save on petrol by joining a lift club or something in order to be able to pay the tithe. One week after paying our 10% we received a cheque 10x the value of our offering, from the Reciecver of Revenue (no less), a cheque that was never in the cards as we were expecting to pay in on personal tax!

How Great is that! God is faithfull in all His promises!

Hi,

So true! God is truly faithful and just!

About Hillsongs, NG and all the rest...We are in no position whatsoever to judge a church, individual or even ourselves. We own nothing and cannot claim anything as our own. God blesses us according to His Word and perfect will. I used to get extremely upset about faults in churches and decided to stay away from churches altogether. What a mistake! I had to go through the painful process of self evaluation which resulted in feeling terrible about my arrogant attitude. I believe it boils down to living the Word of God and personal relationship with the Almighty. One should always keep an eye open for an opportunity to bless those around you instead of getting negative about the seating arrangement in church or the loud worship sessions etc. When all else fails consult the Bible, it not referred to as "the handbook of life" for nothing.

I pray that God will bless all of us with wisdom, understanding and above all... supernatural faith, especially in these uncertain times!

Neville

[Burger]

Ho all

We have tried quite a few churches in the hills area and at the end of the day found what we are looking for in Hillsong.

Yes, it is true that sometimes passages are red from the Bible before offerings and collections are taken but then it is also true that there is prayed for the offerings to be used for God’s work.

I personally are not influenced at all by giving more or les for the church by what happens before collections. What I give is anyway something between me and God and not between me and the Church.

At the end of the day the sermon/message delivered in every sermon I have attended was good and gave me food for the sole and at the end that is all I want.

B