Questions for our NZ experts

[Guest Seoul Sister]

Hi everyone,

As we have a number of NZ experts on our esteemed panel, I was hoping you could possibly share some information with us. I am not sure how things work these days - as I know things have changed quite a bit with regard to Saffers coming to your beautiful country. Would you for instance advise Saffers who don't qualify to go to Australia to try for NZ ? Is NZ still easier to get into than Australia or are the two systems basically the same ? Do you also have a points system and do you need to have employment before arrival or can you go and try your luck ? I also wonder how long the processes to get into NZ take in comparison to Australia ? Would it be a quick way to get out of South Africa (here I am thinking of someone in a situation like Matt has described, where you just want to get away from the criminal elements rather than being picky about where it is that you go to). I am very interested to know all about NZ and their visas and immigration policies, as I suspect by delving into it a bit, we may provide border-liners with alternative options...

Thanks in advance

Love from Korea

SS

[Guest Larry]

Take a look at the New Zealand Immigration Service website. I find it a lot easier to navigate than the Australian one.

I moved to New Zealand from South Africa and then got transferred (and sponsored) into Australia. I didn't really want to move to Australia, but my employers insisted. It turned out to be a good move and I am happy that I came "across the ditch".

But..... About 18 months after I came to Australia, and having gone through the whole immigration process, I discovered that the whole xyz thing wasn't necessary. - My mother, my brother, my two sisters and I all became Australian citizens by descent. A little-known regulation, which has since been dropped, allowed my mother to claim Australian citizenship for herself and all her children as her mother (my grandmother) had been born in Australia.

In the meanwhile, all the rest of my family, parents included, had moved to New Zealand and settled on Auckland's North Shore (Actually a city by itself).

The reason we all moved to New Zealand was that the older one of my two sisters is a doctor. Australia wasn't looking for doctors. New Zealand was.

The nett result is:-

I live in Australia by choice, but I visit the family in New Zealand at least twice a year.

All the rest of the family live in New Zealand by choice. - As Australian citizens, they can move here any time! They choose to live there and are as happy as pigs in the proverbial...

I know of another South African family in Auckland who decided originally to move to Australia. They applied to migrate and went through all the necessary hoops, before being granted permanent residency. They came across to Australia on an LSD trip..... and visited New Zealand at the tail end of the trip. - They are still there!

When I first moved to New Zealand, a Kiwi mate of mine made the comment "Moving to New Zealand is a lifestyle thing!". I agree with him.

So should anybody who has been knocked back by Australia try New Zealand? - Yes!

Is it easier to get into New Zealand than Australia? - Usually, but it can vary. The New Zealand Immigration Service are a lot quicker and more efficient than the Australian mob.

But in my humble opinion, New Zealand is far more than a fall-back position for those who have been knocked back by Australia. - It is a viable alternative and should be considered in its own right.

For those of you who are planning an LSD trip to Australia, do yourselves a favour. - Include New Zealand in the LSD trip. - You are coming such a long way. You may as well get your money's worth!

I forgot to mention:- Australian citizens and permanent residents have an automatic right to full premanent residency in New Zealand. The reverse does not apply. New Zealand citizens, but not permanent residents, can come over to Australia and stay and work for as long as they wish. But they do not become permanent residents. This means that they miss out on some social security benefits, like "the dole".

If New Zealand citizens want to become permanent residents of Australia, they have to apply like everybody else. The only difference is that if they are knocked back, they aren't forced to leave.

Australian old aged pensions are payable in New Zealand. New Zealand old aged pensions are payable in Australia. A lot of old Kiwi's retire to Queensland.

Edited May 30, 2006 by Larry

[NZHigh]

...experts on our esteemed panel... (from SS)

I assume that I am excluded from this conversation then but I’ll gate crash in any case.

I have to applaud Larry on his top notch post. Many forget about the finer details of who is allowed in which country as he mentioned towards the end. And of course anyone who has something nice to say about New Zealand becomes an instant Mate, whether they want to or not. It is the country I chose to live in after all.

As for the current immigration requirements, I am unfortunately not up to date, but the Immigration website that Larry quoted should, based on past experience answer 99% of all questions. It contains enough info to complete and apply for residency on your own.

And yes we do have a points system and there are parts that are similar in principle but in effect may be quite different to the Aus system. As you may be aware the only people allowed to cross into Australia without some kind of a visa are Australian Citizens, The British Royal Family (Hmmmm, I wonder if there is an exception for the Danish Royal Family now….) and of course the lucky New Zealand Citizens. In New Zealand we have visa free (3 month holiday) entry for a whole bunch on mostly ‘Western’ countries eg UK, France, and a few others like South Korea, Malaysia but not China, Russia, Iraq, Namibia and more. So the Australians by default are more stringent in who is allowed than we are. Of course the Aussies see it from the inverse angle that NZ tends to be more relaxed in who it allows, eg the Tampa boat people issue from Aug 2001. Aus refused them, we allowed them but only within our allotted UN quota.

Would you for instance advise Saffers who don't qualify to go to Australia to try for NZ ?

Yes, but read that with Larry’s ‘humble opinion' bit.

Is NZ still easier to get into than Australia or are the two systems basically the same ?

Still? I recall having many friendly ‘arguments’ with a few (not on this forum) on this point. I cannot comment on the current points system. But when we did it, it seemed the ‘difference’ on whether it was easier or not depended on your age, which has an influence on several other factors. It seemed ‘easier’ to get into Aus if one was younger, say under 35, and ‘easier’ to get into NZ if one was slightly older. Bear in mind that I am referring to PR on the points system (skills based but WITHOUT a job offer) – which at the time was the most popular method of gaining PR for both countries.

As I mentioned above somewhere I am not up to date with the current NZ points system. We applied around end 1999 if I remember correctly. At the time we required 25 or 26 points (we had 28 I think without a job offer), but it has changed totally since then, I think one requires between 100 and 140 points now. Even when Larry would have applied to NZ the points passing score was different. Between my wife and myself we were in that ‘golden age’ where we had a good balance of age, work experience (which comes with age as I reffered to above) and qualifications (the major issues) that allowed us the required points not only for NZ, but also Aus and Canada. But as for NZ being easier, our own story was that if we chose Aus I would have been the principle applicant for Aus as my wife did not qualify, she made the points for NZ, I did not. She also made the required points for Canada quite easily, and I barely did. And I could go to England.

Would it be a quick way to get out of South Africa ...

Depends, if one does the whole PR thing it could take up to a year, or as little as a month or so....

But an English Mate of mine who has been to the USA 11 times, travel Aus as extensive as a tourist could do came to NZ as an afterthought to his last Aus holiday some 4 1/2 years ago. He travelled NZ, liked it, found a job, got a work visa all within 6 months (Brits are allowed a longer than the standard 3 month holiday visa). From that point he applied for PR, got it and is about to become a citizen. So it can be one, but I also know that this method is slightly frowned upon.

Edited May 30, 2006 by NZHigh

[Dreamcatcher]

We applied for a post in NZ, but did not get it in the end, so we landed up in Australia! Aus was in fact our first choice, it is just that the job in NZ came up first. Our best friends ended up getting the job, and are now living there.

While researching NZ, I came across the most amazing forum. If anyone is interested in moving to NZ, please have a look at http://www.move2nz.com/

When I joined in May 2005, they had about 2000 members, they are now up to 13 767!

Amazing site, nice people.

Greetings,

Dreamy

[Hendie]

Hmm, wonder what OUR membership would look like if we made membership compulsory to view the forum? I would imagine that's why they have so many "members" (statistics!)

Hendie

[Dreamcatcher]

I suppose that is true, but it still is a very good site

[Mara]

I think the most interesting aspect is that NZ will accept you up to the age of 56! Now that has to be a plus for a lot of people.

My husband and I are both NZ citizens living in Australia and definitely plan on retiring to NZ one day!

It is a beautiful country with lovely people and a pretty laid back lifestyl! My eldest son still lives in Auckland and he says nothing would make him move!

[NZHigh]

Also bear in mind that if someone comes to NZ with the intention of eventually moving to Aus, you need NZ citizenship, as NZ PR won’t cut it in Aus just as Larry mentioned. It used to be 3 years to acquire NZ Citizenship, but that has been increased to 5 years, which effectively means waiting nearly 6 years. It could be a long wait if one really does not want to live here.

Of course if someone desperately needs to leave SA and receives NZ PR or work permits, then while they are here they could always job hunt for Aus jobs if they don’t want to stay here. But I am not sure how easy it is to find overseas jobs unless the skill is in real demand. I think it was Mara who mentioned elsewhere that (in Aus) generally employers look for an Aussie, then a Kiwi and only then from somewhere else.

[Gautenger]

The points required for NZ has been set at 140 recently, you can still get in on 100+ points if you have work experience & qualifications that are on the skills shortage list.

I qualify for CA, NZ, maybe just just for OZ, not for UK under each countries points system. I am an electronic engineer by qualification.

Hendie, I belong to move2nz, the site is great, but we could really do with a SANewZealand.org, don't you think. There are really heaps of folks that are in process and already in NZ. Hint Hint.

I have been arranging meetups from this side for folks going to NZ, and the bunch has been growing steadily.

[NZHigh]

but we could really do with a SANewZealand.org, don't you think. There are really heaps of folks that are in process and already in NZ. Hint Hint.

I have been arranging meetups from this side for folks going to NZ, and the bunch has been growing steadily.

Gautenger, I'll PM you tonight. (NZ Time)

[Shandell]

Just to add my 2cents worth as well

We were transferred to NZ from Cape Town 9 years ago through my husband's work (I know we were lucky ) and I must say that if it was not for James' work transferring us to Brissie two years ago, I would NEVER have left NZ.

It is such a gorgeous country, the Kiwi's are so friendly and we settled in much quicker than we have here in Brisbane.

I agree with previous comments, if you are coming over to Oz for a LSD, include NZ in your trip - you will be pleasantly surprised.

We've got our NZ citizenship and now that we are here, we have to apply like everyone else to get our Permanent Residency and from experience, it was a much smoother process in NZ

Shandell

[Guest Seoul Sister]

Hi everyone,

Oh wow, thanks so much for the replies ! I want to add that my initial questions and statements may have been a bit misleading. I think of NZ as a fantastic place to go to, for Saffers and anyone else. It is not just a place to consider when things don't pan out in Oz, sorry if I gave the impression that this was my point of view . Unfortunately the company that is transferring us to Australia, doesn't consider the IT market for their specific needs big enough there and so NZ is not an option for us, at the moment... But I will be going on skiing, sightseeing and other trips there OFTEN ! Thanks again for all the fantastic and detailed responses ! Can you perhaps tell us a little about the cost of living, compared to Australia ? I remember a friend telling me that housing was also very expensive in NZ, is that true ? Or will this depend on which city you choose to live in ? And if you could pick any place North or South Island to live in, keeping schools for ppl with children in mind, where would you want to live ? Sooooo many questions ! Thanks for your kindness.

Love from Korea

SS

[Guest Larry]

Housing is rather pricey. As a general rule, house prices in Auckland are cheaper than Sydney and more expensive than Melbourne.

The reasons for this are fairly clear. - New Zealand is fairly mountainous and hilly. The cost of providing services such as water, sewage and stormwater are far more than in flatter areas.

Living costs are similar, but not identical, to Australia. For instance, fresh food is more expensive. For some weird reason, fish is more expensive!

Taking into account the lower value of the New Zealand dollar, petrol is around the same price as in the major Australian cities. Cars are far cheaper in NZ than in Australia. - They have no local content programme to support. Loads of two year old Japanese cars are imported into New Zealand. The only duty payable is GST (a Goods and Services Tax which is almost identical to VAT). NZHigh, is GST still 12.5%?

Diesel is far cheaper than in Australia, but users of diesel vehicles still have to pay distance-based "road user charges".

In a nutshell, the costs of esstentials are more expensive than in Australia, but transport is cheaper... and as distances are smaller, you do less travelling anyway.

It's a sort of a "swings and roundabouts" thing. - The overall cost of living in NZ is very similar to Australia.

Oh yes! I forgot to mention. - Beer is cheaper! Even Australian beer costs the same price in New Zealand dollars as you would pay for it in Australian dollars in Australia!

And they love rugby!!! Real rugby!!! Not that contrived game they call Rugby League!!

All in all, I reckon that, weather aside, New Zealand is less of a culture shock for South Africans than Australia is.

Why don't I move back? - Because I have been through all the culture shock thing and missing of friends and family. Most of my friends are Australians. I have become an Australian myself. I have built up a history in Australia.

But that does not mean that I can't remember what things were like when I first arrived. The New Zealanders were far more welcoming. I also made some very good friends there. - I have just received an invite to an old Kiwi colleague's (and friend's) and his wife's 50th birthday..... In Invercargill in August! The only problem is that it clashes with my brother's 50th in Auckland in September. Two trips to NZ in two months is more than my budget will allow for!

And then there is the December one to meet up with old varsity mates....... The dollars are flying out the window!!!

My family and most of my friends in New Zealand live on the North Island. I am ashamed to say that I have never visited the South Island. So I know nothing about it at first hand. Maybe in January 2007.......

Edited May 31, 2006 by Larry

[JPS]

Hi Everyone

I must also comment everyone on the graphical information you have given in the discussions above.

I am also in two minds regarding going to Oz or NZ. At first it was like choosing between taking candy from your own child or taking it from someone else's child. In a way you have helped me make up my mind. It is better to take the candy from someone else's child because you don't have to buy your child candy again. (just joking)

Our first choice is, or should I say, was Oz, but we are not sure anymore. If we want to go to Oz, we will have to wait at least another 12 months before we will know what happens because of the number of people wanting to immigrate. It may be sooner, but seeing that we are already waiting for a year, it is starting to work on our nerves. Anyway, the way I see it, we might as well pack our stuff and go to NZ if it is only for the rugby reason.

Thanks again for all the info; it really cleared up some issues. I will keep on following this discussion for some information.

JPS

[Pippa]

Hi All,

Thank you for all the information and comments! Wow, NZ seems like a very nice country!

I've found the below statistics on the NZ Immigration webiste. Look on page 2 for Expression of Interest by Nationality. 8.7% is South African.

Very interesting.

Regards, Pippa

FactSheet20060529.doc

[Magpie]

I would also like to put in my 2 cents worth: We moved to NZ in 2005 on my work visa as I had a job offer from Auckland. We settled in and was really happy. Then the mining guys got hold of my husband (a fan engineer) and dragged us accross the ditch to the West Island. In my mind New Zealand is not a second choice country, one where you go when Aus don't want you. It is a beutiful and wonderful country in its own right.