Return to Africa?????

[Guest Mauritz]

I've come across all types of arguments regarding 'to leave or not to leave' or people not happy in their 'new country', the 'struggle' to adapt etc.

I grew up in the 'heart' of Africa and obviously miss the sounds of the blacks in their natural environment - a lone voice singing - the sound of an axe. I miss the wildlife in areas without any fences. I miss the call of the fish eagle, the sound of an ostrich at night. The sound of baboons frightened by a leopard. Those areas are long gone - they are no more.

I don't miss the cities or the towns. Language is not important to me - anything goes as long as people understand me. A flag is just a piece of material. Koeksisters and melktert I can make or eat in any country. Transport is so advanced - one can fly anywhere in a matter of hours. Communication is not an issue anymore - therefore family is just around the corner.

In a country like Aus, people drive on the same side of the road - sport is more or less the same. People have the same values. People are friendly and open.

I was just wondering what keeps people from leaving or what do people miss so much. If people have no real connection with the people of Africa, they don't understand a language. They have never spend time with any blacks tribes in their own environment. People that have no connection to nature except maybe through television or the Kruger National Park. They have no connection to land, like the hardcore farmers in Africa.

I was just wondering ....... what do people miss. What is so different here????

Maybe it is just me. I can't imagine being pulled back to Africa just to live in the suburbs - behind six foot fences and barbed wire.

I like the freedom here - I can really spend time in nature, without seeing or worrying about another person. For me personally that is all that matters.

[jimmip]

Brilliant man ! Im planning to immigrate from the UK and this is the kind of stuff that allows me to relate to the true feelings of South Africans in Oz-thanks bud.

[celeste]

When you put it like that it makes me all the more eager to come over asap! Especially what you say about the suburbs..I would miss the drakensburgwhich is still a relatively safe place to camp and enjoy nature. Of course there have been isolated incidents but they are far and few between...for now.

This is the sad reality there is little certainty regarding the future of the country and one always is just waiting for things to continue on the decline, any positivity regarding the future seems misplaced altho there are still pockets of people who have stong hope things could change. I doubt it altho it would be wonderful if it happened.

[Mikej]

We cannot even enjoy the environment or the wild in SA anymore. Apparently about 17 tourists get mugged every week while hiking on Table Mountain.

So now the authorities are handing out R7 plastic whistles to hikers.

Check out Davis Bullards Column. He writes for the Sunday Times and for those of you in Australia who are a bit out of the local media loop. Bullard and his wife were attacked in their home earlier this year. Bullard said he realised they were going to be killed so he attacked the criminals and got shot anyway, luckily they fled and he survived.

I am not sure why I am waffling on about something not really related to the topic but I think the connecton is that whatever you miss about SA. Whether it be being at home with family or taking a hike out in the wild, you are not safe. Dont let the mists of time cloud your reasons for leaving, or allow some nostalgic memory to romaticise the African experience. Because the hard cold reality of living in South Africa is that you live in constant fear and constant danger.

http://www.thetimes.co.za/Columnists/Article.aspx?id=569357

Michael

[Guest Chris Rimmer]

From a pragmatic point of view, I can understand the reasoning presented here. I also find your evocations of 'real Africa' moving and compelling. I do wonder though, whether you are over simplifying a compulsion that is present in many of us. A compulsion that obtains it's sustenance from a more complex and philosopically deeper seam.

If I am to accept your reasoning, do I also have to accept that the black community and the 'hardcore' Afrikaans farmers were right about us all along? Could it be true that we do represent the whining minority -the 'soutpiels' who never possessed any real committment to South Africa anyway? Is there any such thing as the white tribe of Africa? Does 450 years count for nothing? Do you have to be born in the veld within earshot of a leopard disturbing a group of baboons in order to feel any love or connection to Africa?

Can't we at least hope that things get better in South Africa and look forward to a day when we can walk the streets of her towns and the tracks in the veld with the security we knew in our childhood? Have we forgotten the pride and the love we had for the place in the past?

I envy you for achieving such a robust position in this complex debate. Personally though, as much as I appreciate Australia, I still have a haunting love for South Africa that no Australian made melktert or koeksister will ever expunge.

[Enrica]

I agree with you Chris. I didnot grow up in the "heart" of Africa, but in one of its most vibrant cities.

Every day I yearn for my family that is still there and for the country of my birth... for its particular smells , a highveld thunder storm, the smell of the rain and the smell of the newly cut grass. I resent the fact that I am in volantry exile because of the crime and violence in my beloved South Africa.

I have embrassed my new adopted country, but as a child of an emmigrant into South Africa, I now can understand my parents and their feelings about their home land.

No amount of melktert /biltong or koeksisters can ever stop the yearning. Ever.

[Mikej]

Hello Chris, you asked, rhetorically perhaps but if you dont mind I would like to venture an opinion.

Could it be true that we do represent the whining minority -the 'soutpiels' who never possessed any real committment to South Africa anyway?

As an aside I think it is not about the soutpiels, I think the majority of Afrikaners find themselves in the same boat as English speakers.

The crux of your question about whites being committed to South Africa is what is very interesting to me. Over the past few years I have become convinced that commitment to SA by whites is irrelevant, and in fairness to the indigenous black population of SA what do we expect them to do.

When we criticize the government do we expect the black population to agree with us? After generations of racial subjugation to side with a white person over a black leader would be a hard stone to chew.

In my opinion when whites criticise the government (and right or wrong whites are quick to criticise) the black population first identifies with the black government and becomes reluctant to agree with the white voices.

The conclusion is that the best thing white people can do for the local population is to leave the country and in so doing remove all emotional barriers that may prevent them from interacting openly with their government.

Michael

[Guest Mauritz]

Thanks for giving me a slight idea of why people feel homesick. As I said - I had somewhat of a different background in 'Suidwes' - I know why I don't even consider going back. I was just wondering what the majority of people miss. Africa is in my blood - everything I know is based on my experiences in Africa. Still - those places are no more - so it is simple for me - I have to move on.

When I mentioned 'hardcore farmers' I was not talking about Afrikaners. There are thousands of farmers of different nationalities that have very deep seated connections to the land and obviously the people.

I thought I was going to get tomatoes in the face as people give me millions of reasons for 'missing' South Africa:)

[Guest colton]

My kids and I were talking about this exact issue today. Next month we will have been here for a year, gosh how time flies, and none of us have had a single day of doubt or "homesickness" from day one. We are all very happy to be living here and have no interest in returning for a holiday or anything soon. We don't miss anything about South Africa, besides family and friends of course, but if we had moved towns we would have been in the exact same position.

All our English speaking friends haven't had a single day of unhappiness either but the Afrikaans people we know have found it a little more difficult settling in. Generally do English speaking South Africans just feel more at "home" and do Afrikaans people feel "like a fish out of water"? Why would this be so? We all grew up with the same people, places, sights and smells, and we are all part of Africa, so why does it seem like one section of the population find it more difficult than another?

(Obviously not EVERYONE feels the same but from our experiences the Afrikaans people take a little longer to adapt.)

[Guest Mauritz]

All our English speaking friends haven't had a single day of unhappiness either but the Afrikaans people we know have found it a little more difficult settling in.

(Obviously not EVERYONE feels the same but from our experiences the Afrikaans people take a little longer to adapt.)

I obviously can't speak for everyone, but I agree with you completely. We are Afrikaans speaking and found that the Afrikaans migrants seem to be missing 'something'. That is why I posted this topic. We've been here for nearly 12 years and I still don't understand that 'something'. It is very frustrating visiting people and feeling this negativity and you can't put your finger on it - or worse people talk around it. For that reason we found it much more relaxing mixing with English speaking South Africans.

I still want to know - what is that something:) I think it is an important issue - might make life easier on this side if people can talk about it. I have seen families splitting up because of this - some partners packing up, going back to South Africa. Others living happily divorced in the Great Land of Oz. I have my own opinion and will post something at a later stage. I still would like to hear a few more opinions regarding this issue.

[Suidwes]

We are Afrikaans speaking and found that the Afrikaans migrants seem to be missing 'something'.

I think it is exactly THAT! Being Afrikaans .. just another barrier to overcome and that seperates them ( us) from the Eng. South Afr. Worrying if the Aussies will understand/ discriminate against your acsent... will your kids cope with suddenly going to a English school.

Maybe Afr. people feel 'losing' their language to immigration as another emotional blow.

Maybe the Eng. Saffers feels a subconsious connection to the Aussies! I don't know!

I have my own opinion and will post something at a later stage. I still would like to hear a few more opinions regarding this issue.

Share mauritz !

Sw

[Nilo]

Hi guys

I have said it before and I think it is worth repeating, WE MIGRATE WITH OUR HEADS AND NOT OUR HEARTS!

Maybe a little bit of being Afrikaans and loosing your mother tongue, maybe just the little differences in our upbringing???? Who dem knows?

We settled very well. I'm Afrikaans and Hubby English so we are very bilingual. The children, now adults, were in Afr schools, have also settled well. The youngest are with us (20) and the oldest (24) and his wife lives in WA, no worries for eather of the boys. My sons wife is also Afr and she's fine.

Nilo

[Bosluis]

Ek mis nie die stede nie,van PE af, maar ek het vir 5 jaar op n landbouskool skool gegaan, daar naby Cradock, het so lief geraak vir die karoo, jy staan in die veld, hoor die sonbesies sing, karoo bome orals, daai soort met die lang wit dorings wat as hy jou deur jou skoen steek dan brand hy lekker. Die stilte van die veld, die reuke, het ook gereeld op bike ralleys gegaan wat my deur daai wereld gevat het op later staduim in my lewe na skool natuurlik, dan stop jy amper daar in die middel van nerens, soos n hotol in die middel van niks of

Coolsberg so halfpad tussen PE en Cradock, wens ek kan n skildery of n groot prent kry van die Karoo.

[Guest Mauritz]

I think it is a bit quick, but I'll give my humble opinion regarding this issue under a different heading - "The South African Comfort Zone". I saw heaps of views under this topic, but not that many opinions/reasons:)

[AlwaysCurious]

Hi All,

We are Afrikaans speaking and have been living in Sydney for eight months now. We have not once entertained the idea to go back to South Africa (as much as we still love it). We love Australia, the safety, the friendliness of the people and all the new and exciting opportunities.

We agree that the language issue may be an issue for some Afrikaners, but we really believe everyone should be able to get into their new life here quite quickly. Just in Sydney, anyway, there are so many accents around, that you are almost the odd one out if you do not have a foreign accent.

At the end of the day, I do not think it is an Afrikaans vs English issue, but a matter of attitude and ability to adapt. Both population groups in my experience have positive go-getters, and people that may take a bit longer to adapt.

For us the migration process was also not that traumatic. It depends on what you expect. If you are willing to face challenges head-on and actively get involved in you new life here, you will find it relatively easy (the most difficult thing for me was the last week-end in South Africa and the good-byes). If you expect the immigration process to be traumatic and depressing, you can be sure that it will!!

Cheers

Mari

[rossouwe]

I am Afrikaans speaking. People in Aus don't even know that I am from another country as I speak just like them. People from SA think I was born in Aus. Afrikaans is definately not something that makes me miss SA. The only reason I miss it, is due to the fact that my whole Family still lives there.

I went to kinder with most of my friends in SA and we are still good firends, when I go to visit the fam, and see my friends, it's like I never left. The 'something' that people miss for me, is my friends and family. This barrier has also been made much smaller with technology. I can now call friends and family for free if I want to, I can hop onto a plane and be there in half a day. So really, in my opinion, Aus is what you make of it. If you come here with a positive attitude, an open mind and open heart, you will not have that 'something' that makes you miss SA and you can continue your life here in a more peaceful and relaxed way.

[Ninaricci46]

I've come across all types of arguments regarding 'to leave or not to leave' or people not happy in their 'new country', the 'struggle' to adapt etc.

I grew up in the 'heart' of Africa and obviously miss the sounds of the blacks in their natural environment - a lone voice singing - the sound of an axe. I miss the wildlife in areas without any fences. I miss the call of the fish eagle, the sound of an ostrich at night. The sound of baboons frightened by a leopard. Those areas are long gone - they are no more.

I don't miss the cities or the towns. Language is not important to me - anything goes as long as people understand me. A flag is just a piece of material. Koeksisters and melktert I can make or eat in any country. Transport is so advanced - one can fly anywhere in a matter of hours. Communication is not an issue anymore - therefore family is just around the corner.

In a country like Aus, people drive on the same side of the road - sport is more or less the same. People have the same values. People are friendly and open.

I was just wondering what keeps people from leaving or what do people miss so much. If people have no real connection with the people of Africa, they don't understand a language. They have never spend time with any blacks tribes in their own environment. People that have no connection to nature except maybe through television or the Kruger National Park. They have no connection to land, like the hardcore farmers in Africa.

I was just wondering ....... what do people miss. What is so different here????

Maybe it is just me. I can't imagine being pulled back to Africa just to live in the suburbs - behind six foot fences and barbed wire.

I like the freedom here - I can really spend time in nature, without seeing or worrying about another person. For me personally that is all that matters.

There I must agree, my heart yearns back, I miss my family, I miss the African noises, the bush noises, BUT GO BACK - NOT EVEN IN A COFFIN - If you need to go back, at least get citizenship here first as it will not be long before you return to the safety of Oz

[Just B]

I think it is exactly THAT! Being Afrikaans .. just another barrier to overcome and that seperates them ( us) from the Eng. South Afr. Worrying if the Aussies will understand/ discriminate against your acsent... will your kids cope with suddenly going to a English school.

Maybe Afr. people feel 'losing' their language to immigration as another emotional blow.

Maybe the Eng. Saffers feels a subconsious connection to the Aussies! I don't know!

Share mauritz !

Sw

my grandparents were real colonials and indentified with friends who either had parents or grandparents born in the UK. I suppose that is s lot like the aussies, putting us in the same place. So when in Oz it's a case of more of the same. The Afrikaaner how ever, I think has roots far deeper in the African soil and their for feels their soal is tawn to two by being in Australia. It's sad, my family are so excited to get over to oz, for one reason is that English is the offical language and a"version" is spoken by most Aussies. This however is not the case with Afrikaans.

I do feel for you, but instead of living in the past. Develop your own style in Oz and look to the future. The thing is Australia will be your childrens home.

Ltr

K&B

[bubbly]

From a pragmatic point of view, I can understand the reasoning presented here. I also find your evocations of 'real Africa' moving and compelling. I do wonder though, whether you are over simplifying a compulsion that is present in many of us. A compulsion that obtains it's sustenance from a more complex and philosopically deeper seam.

If I am to accept your reasoning, do I also have to accept that the black community and the 'hardcore' Afrikaans farmers were right about us all along? Could it be true that we do represent the whining minority -the 'soutpiels' who never possessed any real committment to South Africa anyway? Is there any such thing as the white tribe of Africa? Does 450 years count for nothing? Do you have to be born in the veld within earshot of a leopard disturbing a group of baboons in order to feel any love or connection to Africa?

Can't we at least hope that things get better in South Africa and look forward to a day when we can walk the streets of her towns and the tracks in the veld with the security we knew in our childhood? Have we forgotten the pride and the love we had for the place in the past?

I envy you for achieving such a robust position in this complex debate. Personally though, as much as I appreciate Australia, I still have a haunting love for South Africa that no Australian made melktert or koeksister will ever expunge.

Well said chris, I've been here for 5 years now and my love for africa will never die, I try and make the most of my new life here at times the longing for home and the loneliness does get to one.

[zorba]

Hi All,

We are Afrikaans speaking and have been living in Sydney for eight months now. We have not once entertained the idea to go back to South Africa (as much as we still love it). We love Australia, the safety, the friendliness of the people and all the new and exciting opportunities.

We agree that the language issue may be an issue for some Afrikaners, but we really believe everyone should be able to get into their new life here quite quickly. Just in Sydney, anyway, there are so many accents around, that you are almost the odd one out if you do not have a foreign accent.

At the end of the day, I do not think it is an Afrikaans vs English issue, but a matter of attitude and ability to adapt. Both population groups in my experience have positive go-getters, and people that may take a bit longer to adapt.

For us the migration process was also not that traumatic. It depends on what you expect. If you are willing to face challenges head-on and actively get involved in you new life here, you will find it relatively easy (the most difficult thing for me was the last week-end in South Africa and the good-byes). If you expect the immigration process to be traumatic and depressing, you can be sure that it will!!

Cheers

Mari

Great post Mari,

And great attitude too!

zorba

[SeanK]

Hi

If you want to go back, thats your concern but read this before you do.

http://www.news24.com/News24/MyNews24/Lett...2311785,00.html