What developers are on the skills shortage list

[Nev]

Quick question, 

 

I have someone who is looking to start studying programming and wants to know what direction to take that could eventually lead to a visa,

 

They dont have a degree, so this would be studies in a specific programming language, then get some experience and look for a gap to move over,

 

What do you all think?

 

My path requires self study and a company in South Africa to give you a job and train you there, so that wont work,

 

 

[monsta]

Unfortunately there isn't one By the time you have studied and got the work experience then there is a fair chance that your profession will no longer be ob the list.

 

Sydney is short of quality iOS developers. It's expensive for someone from Sri Lanka or South Africa to buy themselves a $3000 Mac laptop and a $1000 phone to learn to code iOS apps.

 

I am not sure if it's on the list.. but it's relatively simple to learn... If you can afford the kit. And all you need to get a foot in the door is to make some good apps, put them on the app store and then list them on your CV. No degree required.

[Nev]

Thanks Monsta, that would be a good one as a job, but this chap is more looking for a PR route, sure the job could fall off the skills shortage list but that is just one of the risks,

 

I might ask one of the recruiters on the forums what is currently a possibility, i have a friend who got in on Java (Not Java script but the full java) so it is possible just not sure what is currently on the list

[ottg]

@Nev The way I understand is that your friend can only get in on 457 and 186 DE (Employer Nomination Scheme (subclass 186)). It's the latter where the employer will then sponsor them for their PR.  https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/trav/visa-1/186-

On 3/30/2018 at 8:07 PM, Nev said:

studying programming and wants to know what direction to take that could eventually lead to a visa

 

As you know, a programming language is just a tool and it is similar to say that if I know how to use a screwdriver what cabinet can I make for you. If someone then says to me, please explain the difference between Shabby Chic vs. French provincial and make me a Shabby Chic cabinet, will I be able to? Doubt that!

 

First, you didn't mention if he already has some experience in a specific industry eg banking, firefighting etc, as that will make it easier to give an opinion. That said, surely the approach should be different by rather investigating which organisations he be interested in working for, that aligns best with his past experience. Then search for those business websites and see if he can associate with what they do and what applications they work on.

 

Then attempt to contact ex-employees (with no ICT background) from those companies via Linkedin. Now get 1st hand information about what they do, what challenges they have from a business viewpoint (NOT ICT viewpoint), which ones have an IT component, which ones cost them major time and $$. Which ones they want to solve (urgency, impact, importance). Now make a judgement call how you align with those business problems and solutions.

 

Now again contact ex-employees (with an ICT background) from those same companies via Linkedin. Mentioned the business problems and ask how they solve them using ICT solutions, what languages, what development methodologies and Frameworks they use. Now he has clearer direction about what to do to fill the gaps. Even better, contact the decision makers and ask if they will sponsor 457/186DE visas if you can help them with solutions for x, y, z.

[Nev]

We are friends with a chap who came in on direct PR for his programming skills, in his case it was java programming, so it is possible,

 

I am just finding it difficult to find out what other languages are also included, sure there is an experience requirement and yes it will take a few years to get the training then the experience, but if you just go for anything that is not on the skills shortage list now you probably have zero chance of PR, if you go for something that is in the skills shortage list now, there is a good chance it will still be there in a few years

 

Also if you want a 457 equivalent new type of visa that can be converted to PR, you need to be on the same skills shortage list, so again it is important that he chooses the correct type of programming to go into

[ottg]

Here is the list but you need to read that in context of the ACS assessment and Recognition of prior learning.

(C, C++, Objective C, Visual C, Basic, Visual Basic, Java, Assembler, Cobol, Pascal, PL/1, Fortran, PHP, Pearl, AS3, FoxPro, and similar)

.

[tcmiller]

Java is a very broad and deep language, not something that will be picked up overnight or even in a couple of months. Take a look at Job ads for Java developers and you'll often see that Java developers are required to know HTML,CSS, Javascript and SQL - in other words a Java developer is also a web developer. Add to this a very large amount of libraries and frameworks for the Java language and you get an idea of how deep the rabbit hole goes.

 

If you want to get a visa ASAP then I think Java might not be the best course to take. Possibly web development would be a shorter path. Also Javascript is very hot at the moment with Angular,React,etc in high demand so learning Javascript is a really good idea.

 

Just my 2c.

[iambrettstar]

For a 189, Software Engineer is on the skills list, and the assessing body is ACS.

 

As @ottg mentioned, the ACS website lists a few languages, but the overall context is more important - that the modules of the course are for a programming language. Although not listed, C#, python, ruby and javascript certainly fall under "and similar". Here's the booklet from the ACS website showing the relevant requirements for each anzco code. Your friend would be looking at code 261313.

 

The ACS will assess how much of the course content is related to the skill (software development), and combine that with working experience to determine whether or not the person is skilled. From what I've seen, someone with a bachelor degree in IT and 2 years working experience is baseline requirement to be considered skilled (the equivalent of a bachelor degree in IT from an australian university). 

 

There is the recognition of prior learning option, where you don't necessarily have a diploma or qualification, but work experience is enough to consider you skilled. I believe in that case, a project/portfolio is required, along with years of experience - but best to check the ACS website for more info. For what it's worth, my CTI diploma with java and C++ as main languages, along with 7 years working as a software developer/engineer, combined, were enough for me to be considered "skilled".

 

TLDR; Java, C#, javascript, or python would be the best bets. Python is the fastest growing language in the world, javascript (particularly nodeJS and its flavours) is the most widely used language in the world, and Java and C# closely follow. Those languages are acceptable both for the visa requirement, and also for the widest range of job opportunities both now and in the future. Swift (iOS) is young, and there will definitely be opportunities for that down the line, but I'm not sure it's the language I would start with.

 

 

 

 

[Nev]

Thanks for the comments, exactly what i was looking for