Can my mother with Alzheimer's migrate to Australia?

[LucaMelb]

Hi everyone - first post here. Thank you for creating such a supportive community, I was truly relieved to discover saaustralia.org

In a nutshell: I'm posting here because I'm desperately trying to find out whether it is possible to successfully obtain a Contributory Parent visa for someone who suffers from Alzheimer's. I have done a fair bit of reading online but as yet have been unable to find detailed answers, so I'm truly hoping somebody here might have gone through a similar experience and be able to provide us advice.

A bit more background of my situation: I migrated to Australia several years ago and now live there with my Australian wife. A couple of years ago, my mother, a SA resident, was diagnosed with early on-set Alzheimer's disease. She is only in her sixties and other than her mental state is still as fit as a fiddle - she still has many years ahead of her. I visit my mom here in SA every year (in fact, I am writing this post here in SA right now, on one of my visits) and whilst her mind is gradually deteriorating, her situation has been fairly stable and secure.

 

Until now.

 

Just a month ago we learned that my mom's partner was diagnosed with a terminal pathology and might only have a short time left to live. Which means that once her partner is gone (which could be as little as 6-12 months from now), there will be nobody* here to look after her - and that's why I am trying to bring her over to Australia, so that I and my Australian wife can look after her there.

 

So I've been researching the Contributory Parent visa, which looks like a straight-forward process. The cost is steep - but fortunately, we *can* afford it. The only potential hurdle we've identified is the medical examination. I quickly learned that one of the most common health conditions that result in unsuccessful medical examinations, and therefore a failed visa applications, include cases in which the applicant suffers from Alzheimer's / dementia. I looked online and I found two cases of people reporting their medical exam/visa application declined for this very reason.

The reason for the declined application is because the Aus Government doesn't want to grant visas to people who might be heavily reliant on Medicare. Which I suppose is understandable. But surely Australia would not have a policy of shutting it's doors to ALL people suffering from Alzheimer's? That would be inhumane.

 

So I am assuming there IS *some* process for determining whether an applicant with AD can be allowed to migrate to Australia. And I am trying to find out what that process is.

Which is why I am posting here: I am hoping somebody here has gone through a similar application in recent years - ie. applying for a visa to bring a parent to Australia who was diagnosed with Alzheimer's - so that I can find out 1) whether it's possible and 2) what factors resulted in the success (or failure) of the application. (I would also be interested to hear from people who may have had their visa declined on the basis of their parent's Alzheimer's) 

 

To be more specific: I need to find out what criteria is used to determine eligibility for an applicant suffering from Alzheimer's (eg age, financial capacity of the sponsor); and, if it is a matter of financial capacity, how much money Australia wants to see in my bank account in order to grant the visa. Then I can decide whether I can proceed with the application; and how much money I'd need to raise to ensure a successful application.

 

Can anyone assist me with my situation? I hope you can understand we are pretty desperate to get this process underway as soon as possible given our situation. But I first want to make sure we have as much information as possible so that we go down the Contributory Parent visa path we have a good chance of success, and are not simply wasting our time. 

* I should specify that I am not my mother's only child. If I were, then I would investigate the Remaining Relative Visa. But I cannot apply for this visa, as my mother also has a second child, who also lives in SA, but who is unable to take on the responsibility of looking after our mom. Which means that either I get her over to Australia where I can care for her; or else she will have to go into residential care somewhere in SA, which would be terrible as she is still at the stage of her journey with Alzheimer's where she absolutely needs contact with her loved ones. 

Thank you sincerely for your help!
 

Luca

Edited April 21, 2017 by LucaMelb

[RYLC]

Perhaps one of the agents will be able to give advice on this  @TeeTMI  
 

From what I've seen on the forum and immi site, your mother would not pass the medical as her condition will cost the Australian government more than $40,000 for her lifetime.  That is their cut off figure for significant medical conditions requiring treatment/care.  Also from forums / immi site: it is not possible to opt out of Medicare and tell them that you will pay for all care privately.  Their rule on this is very firm unfortunately. 

 

[LucaMelb]

Thanks for your reply, @RYLC
 

3 hours ago, RYLC said:

Perhaps one of the agents will be able to give advice on this  @TeeTMI 

 

I hope so 

 

3 hours ago, RYLC said:

From what I've seen on the forum and immi site, your mother would not pass the medical as her condition will cost the Australian government more than $40,000 for her lifetime. That is their cut off figure for significant medical conditions requiring treatment/care.  Also from forums / immi site: it is not possible to opt out of Medicare and tell them that you will pay for all care privately.  Their rule on this is very firm unfortunately. 

 

 

I assume you meant to write $400,000 rather than 40,000? Do you happen to remember where you came across this figure on the immi site? (If you could link me that would be extremely helpful!) I'd like to look into this - I'm just finding it a bit hard to believe that a country like Australia would have a policy of shutting it's doors to ALL people with Alzheimer's, regardless of their/their sponsor's ability to manage their parent's care.
 

 

 

[Mara]

@LucaMelb No I think @RYLC is correct in the $40,000.. remember we are talking about a person generally over 60 years old, not a child who has plenty of years ahead of them.

With regard to the " I'd like to look into this - I'm just finding it a bit hard to believe that a country like Australia would have a policy of shutting it's doors to ALL people with Alzheimer's, regardless of their/their sponsor's ability to manage their parent's care."

 

The reality is sometimes unbearable, for many of us, for various reasons, what you have to keep in the back of your mind, is that Australia does have to put the rules they make, into practice. This is no better or worse than most other Western countries... in fact, you may even find that some of the others are more harsh. Parents that have a child with a disability have been refused a visa, which breaks their hearts, but not much they can do about it. I do realise that this is not what you wanted to hear.. and I do wish you the best to try and find a way.. however, I think it would take an absolute miracle.. which immigration extremely rarely provides!

 

Go well, and oh yes, welcome to the forum, glad you found us!

[RYLC]

9 hours ago, LucaMelb said:

I assume you meant to write $400,000 rather than 40,000?

 

No mistake with the figures. It is $40K. They do not single out dementia.  ANY health condition with a significant cost will not pass the health examination.

https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Visa/Heal/overview-of-the-health-requirement/significant-costs-and-services-in-short-supply

The bottom of the document does refer to a health waiver and that may give you false hope. Unfortunately it won't apply to your situation because it is for the dependents of people on 457 and is signed off and covered by their employer or the condition is unlikely to result in undue cost to the government. Unfortunately dementia doesn't fall into this category.

 

In your personal circumstances it seems inhumane but there has to be a cut off point from a big picture point of view and, with an aging population, Australia is hardly going to "import" dementia patients.  Also not in your favour is that you do have a sibling on hand with your mother and it would not be unreasonable to expect family to step in rather than the Australian Government.
 

You are going to think I'm being harsh and don't understand - this is your mother we are talking about.  Thing is I left behind a mother dying of cancer who lived alone so I certainly know how hard migration is. You have my sympathy on this.  

 

On top of this, even if it was possible to get a Contributory Parent Visa, processing is taking close to 3 YEARS now so you would need to set up care in RSA for her any way. 

 

Best you can do is set up support structures for her in RSA.  The Australian dollar goes really far there and there is good care available if you look. My Mum lived in a small town and the care she received was wonderful.  I'm sorry that all of this is not what you want to hear...

 

 

Edited April 22, 2017 by RYLC

[LucaMelb]

Thank you for your detailed replies and links, @RYLC & @Mara - definitely not what I was hoping to hear, but nevertheless very helpful. 

 

What about the Remaining Relatives Visa (subclass 115): if both my sibling and I were in Australia and satisfied the requirements for eligibility - would we still face the same issue with the medical examination? Or does the 115 visa path take financial capacity into account, since the point of this visa is precisely to support a dependent parent with no other remaining relatives.

 

Thank you again for your advice, and for expressing your sympathies - I really appreciate it

EDIT: I have read somewhere that the 115 visa is no longer available (although I'm not sure this is accurate); and that waiting times are even longer. Is this correct?

 

 

Edited April 22, 2017 by LucaMelb

[Mara]

@LucaMelb You may want to check out the following link, as there are health requirements for this as well. I am not sure about the waiting times, perhaps @TeeTMI could answer that for you.

https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Visa-1/115-#tab-content-1

 

[LucaMelb]

Thanks, @Mara
Apparently the queue for the Remaining Relatve visa is 50 years (!!!): https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Brin/Fami/Capping-and-queuing/Other-family-visa-queue

@TeeTMI - any guidance or advice you might be able to provide on our situation would be hugely appreciated

[monsta]

@RYLC pointed out some harsh realities. Unfortunately I have heard of a few people who have had to return to South Africa to look after their famalies .

 

When we applied to keep our South African citizenship, we told them we wanted it because we may have to return to look after our elderly famaly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RYLC]

17 hours ago, LucaMelb said:

 

What about the Remaining Relatives Visa (subclass 115)

 

 

Unfortunately you can't sponsor a parent on this visa.

 

https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Visa-1/115-#tab-content-3 

Who can sponsor a family member

You can sponsor a family member for this visa if you are their near relative. This means you are their brother, sister, stepbrother, stepsister or parent. Your partner can be the sponsor, provided you live together.

 

[LucaMelb]

@RYLC @Mara Thank you again. 

 

These might be basic questions, sorry, but I'm struggling to find answers:

 

1. At what point in the whole process does the medical examination happen? (Does it happen at the very beginning of the process, when lodging the first application? Or only towards the end, when paying the final/big instalment? Or does one have to undergo medical exams both at the start and end of the process?)

 

2. How do people apply for the on-shore contributory parent visa? I am aware that one cannot apply for it if they enter Australia on a Visitor ("no further stay") visa. So assuming they cannot go there on a Student/Work visa, what are some of the possible visas which would allow a parent to apply for the Temporary Contributory Visa onshore?

[ChrisH]

12 hours ago, LucaMelb said:

At what point in the whole process does the medical examination happen? (Does it happen at the very beginning of the process, when lodging the first application? Or only towards the end, when paying the final/big instalment? Or does one have to undergo medical exams both at the start and end of the process?)

 

 

Only one examination.  It is after lodging the visa and paying the big visa fee. 

[RYLC]

14 hours ago, LucaMelb said:

 

2. How do people apply for the on-shore contributory parent visa? I am aware that one cannot apply for it if they enter Australia on a Visitor ("no further stay") visa. So assuming they cannot go there on a Student/Work visa, what are some of the possible visas which would allow a parent to apply for the Temporary Contributory Visa onshore?

 

The onshore contributory parent visa is for people who are currently here on the temporary contributory parent visa which allows a stay of 2 years.  Some parents come on the temporary one and then apply for the permanent one onshore because it spreads out the payments across a longer period of time.  Processing time is still nearly 3 years for both of these (even the temporary one).  Also both these visas have to meet the health requirements though and mental impairment will not pass the health check.

 

 

Edited April 25, 2017 by RYLC

[RYLC]

I've found the medical examination form for you and you'll see the sort of issues they check.

 

Two questions will be an issue with Alzheimers:

Q 27 Do you have a physical or intellectual disability that make it difficult for you to function (for example, to move around or learn) or work full-time?

 

Q11  Mental and cognitive status          Normal              Abnormal

 

http://www.border.gov.au/forms/Documents/26.pdf

 

Further research has indicated that processing times for all the parent visas are a minimum of nearly 3 years so you are going to have to make a plan for her care in RSA regardless. Sorry not to have found better news for you  

Edited April 25, 2017 by RYLC

[TeeTMI]

Hi LucaMelb

The health requirement aims include ensuring that in providing the visa that the likely health care or community services would not:

                                        (A)  result in a significant cost to the Australian community in the areas of health care and community services; or

                                        (B)  prejudice the access of an Australian citizen or permanent resident to health care or community services;

As above the current policy relating to 'significant cost' is generally $40,000.  The Contributory parent visa would require your mother to meet the health requirement.  For the offshore Contributory Parent visa the medical would be assessed immediately prior to requiring payment of the second stage payment.

There is a Temporary Parent visa expected later this year - however there would still be a health requirement the details of this are not yet available.

It would be inappropriate for me to go into other potential options on the forum.

[LucaMelb]

On 4/26/2017 at 2:03 AM, TeeTMI said:

Hi LucaMelb

The health requirement aims include ensuring that in providing the visa that the likely health care or community services would not:

                                        (A)  result in a significant cost to the Australian community in the areas of health care and community services; or

                                        (B)  prejudice the access of an Australian citizen or permanent resident to health care or community services;

As above the current policy relating to 'significant cost' is generally $40,000.  The Contributory parent visa would require your mother to meet the health requirement.  For the offshore Contributory Parent visa the medical would be assessed immediately prior to requiring payment of the second stage payment.

There is a Temporary Parent visa expected later this year - however there would still be a health requirement the details of this are not yet available.

It would be inappropriate for me to go into other potential options on the forum.

Thanks, @TeeTMI. Most of this information had already been covered in the previous posts. But thank you for confirming those details.

The one thing that stood out is the mention of "other potential options". Are you suggesting that there are indeed other potential options for my case? If so, can you please confirm that is what you are saying. (Because so far everyone here seems to be saying there are no other options for me to pursue).

Please also let me know what medium would be appropriate for you to go into those options.

[LucaMelb]

On 4/25/2017 at 9:58 AM, RYLC said:

http://www.border.gov.au/forms/Documents/26.pdf

 

Further research has indicated that processing times for all the parent visas are a minimum of nearly 3 years so you are going to have to make a plan for her care in RSA regardless. Sorry not to have found better news for you  

Hi @RYLC, I appreciate that you took the time to dig up that info for me - cheers. 

 

On 4/25/2017 at 8:12 AM, RYLC said:

 

The onshore contributory parent visa is for people who are currently here on the temporary contributory parent visa which allows a stay of 2 years.  Some parents come on the temporary one and then apply for the permanent one onshore because it spreads out the payments across a longer period of time.  Processing time is still nearly 3 years for both of these (even the temporary one).  Also both these visas have to meet the health requirements though and mental impairment will not pass the health check.

 

 

Again, thanks for the details. I've just been reading about the new temporary visa that's about to be introduced in July 2017. (I see it's been discussed on this forum recently). I suppose nobody knows at this stage what the medical and financial requirements will be?

Also, this article in the Guardian suggests that children can bring their parents over to Aus on a tourist visa for up to 12 months. I always thought the limit for tourist visas was 6 months. Is there a dispensation for parents to remain for a whole year? (Or is that article simply getting it wrong?)


 

Edited April 27, 2017 by LucaMelb

[RYLC]

@LucaMelb I've been thinking about whether to reply / give unwanted "advice" and have decided to rather give an outside viewpoint for you to consider than say nothing and let only emotion be your guide. So let's walk through the current thinking: You bring your mom over on a tourist visa in the hope that you can get her some sort of parent visa or keep renewing the tourist visa over and over

 

The Visa System

• Sooner or later somebody will cotton on that this is not a true tourist situation and her visa will not be renewed. The tourist visa is truly for visitors.  You won't be the first to have tried to bypass the parent visa system by using the tourist visa in this way (different to just visiting every year for a few months like some who are awaiting their parent visa decision). The department know what to look for. Huge risk for your mother.
• You might get 12 months the first time but there's no guarantee you get 12 months every time.I wonder how many times it can be renewed/for how long?
• I think you have to leave the country between visitor visas.  How long is that for? How will you organise this if it needs to be for months at a time?
• Your mom won't pass the medical examination for a parent visa at any time (sorry ) to move off a tourist visa and get PR.

 

Practicalities

• I'm not sure how much you know about dementia but one of the keys to quality of life is maintaining all that they are familiar with so that they have something to hang on to as their memories fade. In bringing her to Australia you will be taking all this away and thus speeding up her deterioration. EVERYTHING will be different (as you know). Shops, foods, tv programs, accents, money, directions, everything. There will be nothing familiar to her (except you for a while).
• Dementia is not just forgetfulness. As the brain shuts down and the confusion takes over they can become aggressive and difficult to manage, they can start to wander, lose inhibitions to the extent of stripping in public etc and then become unable to feed themselves, walk, even incontinent etc. Have you thought through how either you or your wife will need to stay home to care for her every need in Australia?  Have you discussed with your wife which one of you is willing to give up your job to become a full time carer?  In this instance, since your mother is not a permanent resident or citizen, neither you nor your wife will qualify for any Centrelink payments such as carers allowance / payment to compensate for the inability for you to work. How would this work for your family here? 
• Do you own your home where you will be able to install rails and possibly hoists later on for her care in the home?  Is the home big enough (wide passages / open plan) for wheelchairs/walkers? Is the bathroom suited to being altered for disability access?  
• Have you investigated the costs for a private nursing home for when that stage is reached because a time comes when in home care is no longer possible?  Notwithstanding the ability to pay for it, do care facilities even take people on a visitor visa? I doubt it but you should find out. 
• Packing up your mother's life in RSA will mean that she has nothing to go back to if/when she is sent back. I know that you are hoping she won't be and that you can pull off a miracle....  The last thing you would want would be to become one of those heartbreaking posts on Change.org where you are begging the minister for immigration to allow your mother to stay in Australia now that she is too far gone to return and her visitor visa is up.  The situation would be of your making (sad to say) and it would be better to put your energies into finding a suitable situation for her in RSA.

 

Have you investigated the possible care options in RSA?  I mean really investigated? There is good care and many, many retirement/aged care facilities with caring staff. The Australian dollar goes a long way over there too.   So sorry for painting this bleak picture but if you don't know this, then you can't make an informed decision based on facts about what is going to work for the situation.  It might feel best to you for her to come to Australia to solve the problem short term, but the long term outcome of coming to Australia is dire for all of you.

 

As an aside: we have family going through a dementia diagnosis at the moment so I'm hearing about the symptoms and changes first hand.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 28, 2017 by RYLC

[LucaMelb]

17 hours ago, RYLC said:

@LucaMelb I've been thinking about whether to reply / give unwanted "advice" and have decided to rather give an outside viewpoint for you to consider than say nothing and let only emotion be your guide. ... 

• I'm not sure how much you know about dementia...

@RYLC I appreciate the sentiment, thank you. I am aware of all the things you have mentioned, and even though several incorrect assumptions about our circumstances make them not entirely relevant to our circumstances - they are all valid points, generally. I don't want to go into details here atm, but just want to clarify I wasn't posting here due to a lack of awareness of dementia and care needs; but because I feel I owe it my mother to thoroughly investigate all possible pathways - even challenging ones such as migrating to Australia - before making a decision. Of course we are also researching and putting in place systems to care for my mother here in South Africa. I realize it might sound as if I am focusing solely on the Australian option, but that's simply because my intent on this forum was specifically to gain a better understanding of that particular option - rather than how to care for my mother generally. Nevertheless, thank you for listing all those (very valid) concerns - they could be of great help to others who might have the misfortune of being in this situation.

 

17 hours ago, RYLC said:

The Visa System

• Sooner or later somebody will cotton on that this is not a true tourist situation and her visa will not be renewed. The tourist visa is truly for visitors.  You won't be the first to have tried to bypass the parent visa system by using the tourist visa in this way...

 

The Aus Govt clearly states that one of the legitimate purposes of a Vistor Visa (subclass 600) is "to visit family", as well as tourism; so I'm confused as to why you would suggest this might be seen as "bypassing" anything? 
 

17 hours ago, RYLC said:

As an aside: we have family going through a dementia diagnosis at the moment so I'm hearing about the symptoms and changes first hand.

I am sorry to hear that. It is one of the most heartbreaking things to go through
 

Edited April 28, 2017 by LucaMelb

[PSSYD]

Hi @LucaMelb picking up this conversation from 6 years ago, I am exactly in the same situation with my MIL and wanted to know how you navigated the situation. Was there a silver lining?