Catholic schools for non-catholics?

[Karools]

Hi all!

 

I am a secondary school science teacher who will shortly be needing a job in oz, and I see the many catholic and anglican type schools there. I am a non-catholic christian and have some serious issues regarding some catholic methods and beliefs (not trying to offend catholics here, and really not trying to start up a debate on the subject). I also have children who will have to attend school in a couple of years.

 

My question: Do most catholic schools in oz enforce catholic rituals and methods on their students and teachers? Is it a viable option for me as a job or would it just be a recipe for massive frustration? Don't want to be too picky about looking for a job over there, and I hear lots of good things about catholic-type schools there. 

 

Obviously each school is different, but would like to get a feel for what I can expect.

 

[RussellJ]

What do consider rituals or methods that you are not comfortable with?

[RYLC]

A catholic school is fully catholic and celebrates all aspects of catholicism.  The application process usually requires a letter from your catholic minister and your baptism certificate.  Doesn't sound like it will be a good fit for you. Catholic school teachers also have to complete tertiary qualifications in Catholic Studies so they take their faith very seriously.

 

Even Christian schools require teachers to be practicing Christians with a letter from their minister.  The application forms often include questions such as tell us about your conversion experience, your involvement level and roles with your church, etc.

 

 

[Karools]

5 hours ago, RussellJ said:

What do consider rituals or methods that you are not comfortable with?

Don't really want to go into all that now and start a whole faith-debate which normally just turns ugly sooner than later. 

 

Thanx @RYLC, that then makes my process of finding a school a lot simpler.

[Drought]

Hi Karools

 

Not all Catholic schools have the requirement that the teacher has to be a practicing Catholic. In several of the WA schools for example any one may apply and in fact are employed in the Catholic system. All teacher do however need to complete a "Catholic education" unit before a specified time period. Non-Catholics cannot hold positions higher than Head of Department though.

 

There is also a difference between Independent,Christian schools and what is known as "church" schools. Several of the big (expensive) private schools were started by a particular church/denomination but no longer stringently follow the  doctrines of that particular faith or denomination, hence open employment  opportunities.

 

Similarly for example, any one can apply to work in a Jewish school, not restricted to teacher who also practice the faith.

 

So the best thing to do is to look at the specific school's requirements,

 

This is straight from the Catholic Education website: "

"Do you need to be Catholic to work in Catholic Education?

 

No you don’t need to be Catholic to work in Catholic Education. However, the Catholic faith and teachings are integral parts of education in this sector and staff must be fully supportive of this. It is a requirement that teachers of Religious Education are committed Catholics who give active Christian witness to Catholic beliefs.

 

Is there a requirement for me to undergo training in the Catholic faith to be employed in the Catholic Education sector?

 

Yes, we require all our staff to gain an understanding of the Catholic faith. As part of your terms of employment, you are required to undertake professional learning and development either via the Accreditation to Work (Non-Teaching staff) or Accreditation to Teach & Accreditation to Teach Religious Education (Teaching staff) learning modules, depending on your role within our sector."

 

Hope that helps.

[Shellfish]

My children have attended Catholic schools in both Victoria and WA and I can tell you that in general, they are unapologetic and will include prayer time, religious education and mass and you would be required to support these practices.

I am a non-practicing Anglican and consider myself Agnostic but I have been nothing but impressed with the schools that my children have attended. I have found Catholic schools to be inclusive, caring, nurturing and quite different to what I was expecting. Just thought I would give you my two cents - I wouldn't dismiss them off-hand. 

[Karools]

Thanks a bunch!

[RYLC]

Which state are you going to Karools because there seem to be differences state by state.  My comments are based on personal experience of my husband being a high school teacher and applying at various schools in South Australia.

[Drought]

yup-  merely attempted to provide information relevant to employment in these schools in WA- in no way shape or form are employment conditions and information to be read as being reflective of the nature of the schools.

 

As far as I am concerned that is very much an individual school issue- no matter what sector the school falls in! Almost without fail in every sector, whether that be state, private or independent, there will be schools that are suited perfectly to individuals and others that are not. Higher fees for example do not necessarily mean better schools!

 

Hope you find a school that works for you Karools.

[Karools]

7 hours ago, RYLC said:

Which state are you going to Karools because there seem to be differences state by state.  My comments are based on personal experience of my husband being a high school teacher and applying at various schools in South Australia.

Still shopping around for states as well, will probably go (nearly) anywhere I can find a good job here from south africa, which seems a tall order... Have no roots in australia so can easily settle in (nearly) anywhere

[RedPanda]

On 01/03/2017 at 3:39 PM, Karools said:

Still shopping around for states as well, will probably go (nearly) anywhere I can find a good job here from south africa, which seems a tall order... Have no roots in australia so can easily settle in (nearly) anywhere

 

You can speak to the other forumites, but it seems to me that even onshore teachers have it really tough finding work. I hope you are not making your entire migration subject to you finding work in Australia, from South Africa?

 

Maar baie sterkte in elkgeval! Ek hoop jy kom reg/kry iets.  

[Karools]

Yes I realize the difficulty of finding a job from here. 

 

So far the planning is to go either WA or Tasmania, but obviously IF a job does come up in Sydney, I would take it in a heartbeat. If not, we would probably go WA and take it from there.

 

I have read on many sites that Australians are not as hung up on qualifications and degrees etc. as here in South Africa. However I do have an M.Sc. in Biochemistry and hope it will be seen as at least something unique to make my CV stand out a bit. Any teachers on the forum could maybe tell me if that is a false hope or not?

 

I actually had a couple of interviews with school principals where my qualifications counted AGAINST me here in South Africa... People do tend to judge others a lot based on a piece of paper over here, whether good or bad.

 

 

 

 

[BIGSHARK]

Please may I ask what the school fees for Catholic schools are like.  Are they in the same league as private schools?  The few I looked at over the net, the fees were only slightly less than the private schools, but not significantly.   

[Sunnyskies]

14 hours ago, BIGSHARK said:

Please may I ask what the school fees for Catholic schools are like.  Are they in the same league as private schools?  The few I looked at over the net, the fees were only slightly less than the private schools, but not significantly.   

Depends on the school, some are on a par with the independent private schools, but others are at about 75% and then all the way down to about 25% of the independent private school fees.

 

For a range, I know that one of the top Catholic boys school in Victoria currently charges close to $27,000 pa, a top Catholic boys schools in Brisbane that currently charges around $15,000 pa, I know of one top level Catholic girls school in Brisbane that charges $16,000 pa and another that charges $7,000 pa, and a mid level Catholic girls school in Brisbane that costs about $7,000 pa (which is roughly the same as a mid level Catholic boys school in Melbourne that I am aware of) and a mid level Catholic girls school on the Gold Coast that costs about $4,500 pa.

 

Hope that helps you.

[Shellfish]

If you're wondering why some of Catholic schools (particularly in Melbourne and Sydney) charge almost $30k for matric, the short answer is because they can. It's an 'old boys club' often their father's and grandfathers went to the same school and money is no object. These school are akin to Grammar schools and are almost exclusively single sex school.

The less expensive Catholic schools tend to be further from the city, in the 'suburbs', co-ed and are considered semi-private. 

[Mara]

The Catholic high school in Sunbury, to my knowledge charges about $7000 for matric.

[Enrica]

Most Catholic schools require their teachers to be Catholic , which is fair enough. You could always apply to school of your choice of religious denomination.

Why would you want to teach in a Catholic school if you dont agree with the this form of Christianity ? 

[Karools]

Just wanted to know if it is a viable job option, as many people have mentioned the difficulties in finding a job as a teacher lately. 

[RYLC]

The main difficulties with finding a job as a teacher are arriving in January and expecting lot of vacancies.  I've explained quite a few times on a number of threads that the best time to arrive for teachers is the beginning of third term (August just like RSA) as that is the term where there is the most relief teaching available so that you can become known to schools.  This is the term where teachers go off on professional development and/or are sick with winter germs so the best opportunity for relief teaching.  It is also the term where schools plan for the year ahead, existing teachers put in their term's notice that they are leaving and schools can then place ads for their vacancies.  Most schools want their staffing mainly sorted out by the end of term 3.  There is some overflow to 4th term but the bulk of vacancies are in third term.

 

The problem is that most Saffas want to finish the school year in RSA. Unless it's matric, I don't understand why.  Kids come and go all year round at our school as their parents are transferred or they move across the city and need to change schools.  Even for teachers, there is no need to finish the year in RSA TO THE DETRIMENT of your start in Australia.  What does it achieve?  Perhaps people feel good that the didn't let anybody down or that they finished what they started.  The truth is that if you were hit by a bus, the school you are at now would make a plan.  Don't shaft your opportunity of getting employment as a teacher in Australia by arriving at the wrong time.  Being jobless for six months or more while you wait for vacancy season in third term is madness in my mind.  COME at the best time.  Don't leave at what feels like the best time only to find out that you've done yourself a disservice.  Also the kids adapt easily, you get a chance to see how they go for 2 terms and they make friends, ready to keep them occupied during the long, hot December holidays. Win Win.

 

 

[Karools]

@RYLC that is some excellent advice. I think many teachers here are so used to sacrificing so much of themselves in our day to day that we lose a sense of doing what is right for yourself and your family. To me teaching was about so much more than just a job, but as my kids got a bit older and I saw the effect my hours away had on them I found my priorities becoming a little more "selfish". 

 

My visa will probably only be here by end July if all goes fairly well. Lodged EOI last week, but our case is fairly straightforward and my agent reassured me that secondary school teachers are being invited rather quickly (is this just agent-talk towards a client or is there truth to it?). After visa grant it's selling house and arranging flights and moving company etc, so will probably not be able to go much earlier than december, even though I'm rearing to go! Obviously a miracle job offer earlier changes things and then we'll do what needs to be done  

[RedPanda]

Just wondering, would it be practical to postpone coming over until July/August next year, to minimise the period spent living on $ without earning them yet? It would have advantages like a relaxed pack-up, time to spend with friends and family, and possibly opening an Aussie bank account and saving up. Obviously each family has their own situation, so this might not be ideal for you. But I think it's worth considering.