Choose carefully who you tell!! Very unhappy :(

[GKatherine]

To those still in the early stages, please think carefully about who you tell about your plans....  Hubby told his friend (senior manager)... who promised to keep it confidential until we have actually gotten the visa. Last week he was called in by HR - "So, I hear you are moving to Australia".  Just now was just called in by the company director who informed him that his position is going to be advertised soon.  WE HAVEN'T EVEN RECEIVED AN ITA YET!  I am so down at the moment. Hindsight is 20/20, I know we have been cautioned about this (thanks @CyberJoe).  Nothing that we can do about it now, but I am so emotional now .  Feels like everything is half a step forward, three steps back.  The company might somewhere in the future open an office in Australia, so I suppose there are method to the madness.  However, they have made it clear that they will not help us with the process (i.e. job offer, relocation assistance, etc.), However, if we do get a visa, they will see if they can make some arrangement for him to either assist with the process to open a new office, or work remotely for the SA office so as not to lose him.  But I mean, this is a year + into the future...  But they are already advertising?!?!?  Just had to share this.  I feel a stomach ulcer brewing.....

[ChrisH]

As far as I'm concerned that is none of his employers business.  He hasn't given them notice of resignation so they can't just get rid of him because he might move in the next year or 5...

[Deezo]

Sorry to read this @GKatherine  

 

Thats so unethical and unprofessional by his "so called friend" and Chris is correct! It has nothing to do with them and your husband is still an employee of the company and they cannot do anything until he hands in his officially notice. If they make his position redundant or force him out then its victimization and he can take them to the CCMA.

 

As for the hopes that they would or could assist with a placement in Aus - i would just prepare to look for another job anyway and nothing is guaranteed in the end but i hope things move quickly now so you can have more certainty in your process.

[Lynnor]

I would say that act was one of jealousy... The friend sounds like a weasel to me. Dont be phased, people of his kind always falls into the hole they dig for others. 

 

Who knows you hubby may be in line for something much better than what his employer is currently offering him or possibly could offer him in future...

 

God is in control, he opens doors no man can close.

 

[Husky]

@GKatherine

ChrisH and Deezo are right. The company has no grounds for dismissal. By advertising his job without him having resigned or them following an incapacity or misconduct process, they are breaking SA labour law.

I am dying to tell people of our plans. It feels unauthentic to discuss future plans we possibly won't be part of and awful to not tell friends and family, but my husband keeps reminding me that it is premature until we have our visas. 

Life lessons are rarely without discomfort, unfortunately. This too shall pass.

Sure it will all work out for the best. Take care. 

Edited September 21, 2016 by Husky
Tagging

[monsta]

At the end of the day,  moving with an employer can be nice as you are not knocked back a job grade.  

 

I have mentioned here that it's far easier for a recruiter to find you a job working in a shop,  rather than managing it. They know when you are just off the plane that you need to find a job quickly. So it can take peeps several years to rebuild their career after landing here. 

 

But... Most companies struggle to do business overseas.  So,  your hubbies company's Aussie adventure is probably doomed to fail. It's probably got a 1 in 5 chance of lasting more than a year or two. 

 

Most big international companies only have a small sales office in Australia. So,  I hope hubby is in sales.. 

 

 

Edited September 21, 2016 by monsta

[Riekie]

What a douche friend...  

 

The employer is not much better... (I won't trust them with anything and certainly no promises they make!)

[GKatherine]

Thanks everybody for the comments and support.  I was so down yesterday, but as @Lynnor said, God is in control.  There must be a reason.  And @Husky, 'this too shall pass' is my life motto.  So yeah, this will pass.

@monsta, not sales, account management related... but actually so much more than that.

We discussed it last night.  It seems that the company suddenly realised that there is no continuity plan for when he might leave.  So, they want to get somebody now (or soon at least) so that he can properly train them, and then they will give him more senior management responsibilities to alleviate his senior's role.  So, it does make sense... but not the way they did it.  And nothing is in writing, except for the job ad.  

I think I am just being oversensitive without a proper support structure in place, but my nerves are shot with everything going on.

Thanks for reading.

 

[ChrisH]

Shame @GKatherine, this process is quite the emotional roller coaster.  

 

I haven't had any personal issues like this, but I found the medicals to be the most stressful (even if you know nothing is wrong).  The week before our tests every little cramp and ache makes you think up some elaborate illness that you might have! 

 

I just keep reminding myself that we'll look back (from Australia off course) and laugh at all of this in a couple of years time.

[RedPanda]

2 hours ago, GKatherine said:

Thanks everybody for the comments and support.  I was so down yesterday, but as @Lynnor said, God is in control.  There must be a reason.  And @Husky, 'this too shall pass' is my life motto.  So yeah, this will pass.

@monsta, not sales, account management related... but actually so much more than that.

We discussed it last night.  It seems that the company suddenly realised that there is no continuity plan for when he might leave.  So, they want to get somebody now (or soon at least) so that he can properly train them, and then they will give him more senior management responsibilities to alleviate his senior's role.  So, it does make sense... but not the way they did it.  And nothing is in writing, except for the job ad.  

I think I am just being oversensitive without a proper support structure in place, but my nerves are shot with everything going on.

Thanks for reading.

 

Well, just keep an eye on it. If it all goes down like they say, then that is fine. But if they disadvantage your husband in any way, because his friend had a loose mouth, you can sue for personal damages, and if they dismissed him from work you could take them(the employer) to the CCMA. Hope for the best, but strategise for the worst, that way you should be covered for whatever happens.

I hope for you that the company does what they say they want to do, and that it works out fine.  

[Jordy]

I would be very cautious of accepting a new position even if "promoted". Especailyl if he trains someone up to do the old job. If it doesnt work out with Australia and you decide to stay, it will be easy for them to say the new promoted position is now redundant and he could find himself out of work. 

[JonathanR]

At least we can say there is one good thing about South Africa's labour law, it is on your side :-)

Account management is a fairly important role in an organisation and your husbands manager might have freaked out a little when he realised there is no continuity plan in case your husband leaves, so it makes sense the way they say they are doing things and if that doesn't work out, it should be the new person made redundant not the existing person. It is sad though that this so called friend put the interests of the company ahead of the interests of his friend.

 

I told my boss because I needed to get a letter of reference from her and although she was sad, she understands my motivation. She immediately placed someone alongside me so that my position can continue when I leave, however this was an existing employee so it is an upwards move for him if I leave.

[ottg]

My view is although this is now a high risk, perhaps you can salvage the situation. But it will require some serious action and talking and may not work.

However it may turn out to be a good experience (which no ones really needs)

 

On 9/21/2016 at 7:58 PM, GKatherine said:

will see if they can make some arrangement for him to either assist with the process to open a new office

First who conveyed this message to him initially? Who are the "they"? This must have been done in confidence as this is a strategic move of the company and will require planning, exec approval & budgets? If this was done by any executive manager who has influence at Board level and the strategic direction of the company (assume this is a large company) then your approach will be different. Everything else will just be fire-fighting rumours.

 

So if its the an exec the best approach in my view is to go and see him and explain the situation. They will know best how to either suppress the situation and communicate the message to people. However if its at non exec level, you need to see HR, the initial person you said that and the "friends" line manager. You need to soften the situation. Explain that its was just thoughts, apologize that you preempted the situation, didnt forsee by telling x (in confidence) that it may have caused issues. However you have no intention of resigning and will comply to conditions of employment to the tee. Also explain that this situation actually caused you to be more conscientious towards your work etc. Lastly that any rumours may damage not only the company but your own professional standing. Again apologize and ask what you can do to rescue the situation. Also suggest that you would like to can put apology in writing (a trail of emails are always good for who knows what)

 

On 9/21/2016 at 8:16 PM, ChrisH said:

He hasn't given them notice of resignation so they can't just get rid of him

Its not required - if the rumour spreads his position may become a risk/embarrassment to the company. How will clients react to it (is the company bailing out or expanding?), how will peers react ( may cause professional jealousy, unhappiness), stakeholders arent across this and hasnt approved the strategic growth plan yet etc. So if this is really a risk to a company there are many ways to make a position redundant and be still within the law

 

11 hours ago, RedPanda said:

you can sue for personal damages, and if they dismissed him from work you could take them(the employer) to the CCMA.

Absolutely, and I would confront the person directly about this as part of the above remediation actions. However get HR involved as you mentioned he is an senior manager. Let them advice you and ensure that emails are also copied to him where required. You need to be extremely strategic about this as you still need to work with this person for sometime.

 

9 hours ago, Jordy said:

easy for them to say the new promoted position is now redundant

Absolutely! Good luck with managing the situation.

[Waylander]

Ottg is correct - despite ZAR's labour laws - it is pretty easy to get rid of anyone in your organisation - just follow the process meticulously.  Believe me, if a company wants you out enough, they can get you out - and all nice n legal.

 

The path to getting Visa and timing of immigration is fraught with dangers and issues such as the one you highllighted.

 

My situation was that I needed a reference in order to get enough years work XP assessed.  I HAD to go to my boss to tell him I was heading off to Australia.  I explained that it was a 2-3 year process and I would work with them to manage the exit amicably and with as little impact to the business and my finances.

 

Fast forward 18 months from that Conversation, and I had my Visa and had just planned my activation trip. Company had a terrible year results wise, and new Group CEO was tasked with cutting costs.  Result was a sorted list of people by salary - start at the top and everyone near the top of the list has to justify their existence or be critical to the business' ongoing success (and if the person had just been around a while - could we replace them with a younger, cheaper resource).  Obviously my name stuck out like Bulldog's xxxx on a Budgie,  earning a lot, and pushing off to Aus in the next few months.  I saw the writing on the wall, so I accelerated my emigration process and negotiated a fixed 6 month contract to fit in with MY plans and gave the new Group CEO a tick in the box (1 head cut - saving of 1/2 a a salary = replace with a younger, much darker, much cheaper resource).   If I had not done that - they would have found some way or other to get rid, WITHOUT paying out retrenchment lump sum (which would only have been 2 months salary anyway).  No way I could get another job in ZAR with me planning to leave in the next 5 - 8  months, and I needed the cash right up til flight time.

 

I was lucky in that the finance department had been hit with 2 maternity leave issues and one resignation - so I fell back into Financial Management and offered to manage the department and get the financial results out, just in time for to f.off to Aus.  And keep the Rrrrr's rolling in right up til flight time.

 

 

 

[GKatherine]

Wow! A lot of possible scenarios that I never imagined!  Thanks for the input.  

@JonathanR, he also had to get a reference letter, so I think in a similar manner they freaked out a bit. Again, there are different ways of dealing with these kind of situations, yours sound better.

@ottg, good advice, thanks.  Will keep an eye on it and see how it can be managed. The message was confirmed by exec again yesterday, so he will take it  from there.

 

@Waylander, that was a lucky break!  Glad everything worked out for you. 

 

And yes, @ChrisH.... one day I hope to laugh about this... Would be a fun memoire to write on our immigration adventures