189 vs 190 visa question

[GonzoTho]

Hi Guys

 

I have a question relating to the application for PR visas. I have read somewhere (can't remember where) that if you occupation is on the CSOL and you are invited to apply for a 190 visa, you then have to apply for a 190 visa and are not eligible for the 189 visa. One requirement of the 190 visa as far as I recall is that you need to work in the state/territory that has nominated you for a period of 2 years. 

 

My problem is that my occupation is on the CSOL, however, I would like to move to Melbourne and immediately start studying towards an MBA. I therefore only wish to use my current occupation (Civil Engineering) to get my foot in the door and then switch into a broader field. Are they willing to make exceptions on the rules regarding application for a 189 visa vs a 190 visa? I would very much prefer to study immediately upon arrival in Aus rather than having to work for two years first.

[Eduan]

Hi

 

 

This is my opinion, and what I understand from what I read.

 

You only have to work on the work visa (example 457). You are not forced to work on a 189/190 visa.

When you receive a 190 visa, you are required to LIVE in the state nominated for 2 years. Obviously the state would like you to use your specified skills in the state, that is why they nominated you. But no one can force you to work on a 190 visa.

 

This is an extract from the website (https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Visa-1/190-)

 

If you accept a nomination, the states and territories may require you to:

• live in the nominating state or territory for a specified minimum time
• tell the state or territory your address, both before and after you arrive in Australia
• be prepared to complete surveys and providing other post-arrival information they ask for
• meet any of their other requirements

 

Hope this helps

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 19, 2016 by Eduan

[RYLC]

 

22 hours ago, GonzoTho said:

Are they willing to make exceptions on the rules regarding application for a 189 visa vs a 190 visa?

 

They are two different visas for a reason with different rules according to Australia's skill needs.  Each state decides which skills they want more of and makes their visa offers accordingly.  The 2 year rule reflects their investment in picking you for their state.  Yes plenty of people go in on a 190, do their 2 years and then move if they have friends/family in other states or better job prospects.  The bottom line though is that they do their 2 years.

 

The states do check where you have settled and WA is particularly sticky about this. I know one family who had their state nomination for WA revoked. I've also seen on here that 190 visa holders have to prove that they intended to settle (eg rental agreement, kids in school) AND apply to the state to ask to be allowed to move before the two years. So it is not so much that an exception is made for them but rather that they have made a very concerted effort to find work in their chosen state and have let the state know their circumstances. What you are wanting to do makes a bit of a mockery of the state nomination system since you really don't want to live in the nominated state. My stance is that you should "sit in the seat" you agreed to occupy for the time required otherwise don't accept that "seat"

Edited August 19, 2016 by RYLC

[RYLC]

You could come on a study visa and then settle wherever you like rather than try to work the system. 

 

With either a study visa or 189/190 you will have to pay fees and won't qualify for government funded HECS. You need to be a citizen for government funding. You can work for limited hours on a study visa too. Lots to research. 

Edited August 19, 2016 by RYLC

[RedPanda]

22 hours ago, GonzoTho said:

I have a question relating to the application for PR visas. I have read somewhere (can't remember where) that if you occupation is on the CSOL and you are invited to apply for a 190 visa, you then have to apply for a 190 visa and are not eligible for the 189 visa. One requirement of the 190 visa as far as I recall is that you need to work in the state/territory that has nominated you for a period of 2 years. 

 

It's a little bit like a hierarchy, if your occupation is on the SOL you can apply for a 189 visa, and live wherever you want. But the SOL is only that long, so if you are not on it, some states and territories have listed additional occupations that they feel are in special need in their area creating the CSOL. So if you are on the CSOL you can apply for a 190 visa to live in the area that has a demand for your skill. The whole idea of the CSOL is that they address local needs. So if that is your only option then apply for State Nomination, work there for the allotted time, and move after it has expired. This is still way better of an opportunity that many people get whose only option is a 457, where they can be fired with 28 days notice to leave the country.

[RedPanda]

A 190 is still PR, and comes with all the advantages like Medicare, reduced school fees etc. And you have the right to live in Aus forever.

[GonzoTho]

4 hours ago, RYLC said:

You could come on a study visa and then settle wherever you like rather than try to work the system. 

 

With either a study visa or 189/190 you will have to pay fees and won't qualify for government funded HECS. You need to be a citizen for government funding. You can work for limited hours on a study visa too. Lots to research. 

 

I have considered this, but I figured that while I intend to apply for PR anyway I may as well do it from the start. Having permanent residence status also opens up opportunities for bursaries that would not have been available on a study visa.

[GonzoTho]

39 minutes ago, RedPanda said:

 

It's a little bit like a hierarchy, if your occupation is on the SOL you can apply for a 189 visa, and live wherever you want. But the SOL is only that long, so if you are not on it, some states and territories have listed additional occupations that they feel are in special need in their area creating the CSOL. So if you are on the CSOL you can apply for a 190 visa to live in the area that has a demand for your skill. The whole idea of the CSOL is that they address local needs. So if that is your only option then apply for State Nomination, work there for the allotted time, and move after it has expired. This is still way better of an opportunity that many people get whose only option is a 457, where they can be fired with 28 days notice to leave the country.

My occupation is listed on both the CSOL and the SOL. It does however seem to me that I can not apply for a 189 visa if I get nominated for a 190. I assume nomination for a 190 visa is completely out of your hands? I.e. if more than one state has a need for people with your occupation is it possible to get nominated by more than one state and choose where you want to go? Can I apply directly to a state for nomination?

[GonzoTho]

4 hours ago, RYLC said:

 

What you are wanting to do makes a bit of a mockery of the state nomination system since you really don't want to live in the nominated state. My stance is that you should "sit in the seat" you agreed to occupy for the time required otherwise don't accept that "seat"

 

I completely agree with you, hence  this thread in order to see if there are ways to get offered a different seat instead. If I can get nominated by Victoria, or be allowed to apply for a 189 visa that would be 1st prize. Otherwise I'll just go the study visa route. I assume time spent in Aus on a study visa will count towards the 4 year requirement for citizenship?

[Eduan]

It really depends on what you applied for in your EOI. I had 2 EOI's, one for 189 and one for 190. Received invitations for both this week, in different emails.  It is then your choice which one you want to persue

[RedPanda]

If you are listed on the SOL then you can choose not to apply for a 190 at all, if you specifically want the 189 (we did). If you mean to ask: can they force you to live in one area if you apply for a 189, then the answer is no.

If you apply for both simultaneously, because you want to get a result faster by increasing your chances, then you have to choose.

 

[RedPanda]

3 minutes ago, GonzoTho said:

I assume time spent in Aus on a study visa will count towards the 4 year requirement for citizenship?

 Just read up about this, last when I checked it was only time spent on a PR visa that counted. But please double check me.

 

 

4 minutes ago, GonzoTho said:

I completely agree with you, hence  this thread in order to see if there are ways to get offered a different seat instead. If I can get nominated by Victoria, or be allowed to apply for a 189 visa that would be 1st prize. Otherwise I'll just go the study visa route.

Ah, ok. I did not understand your question like that.

You are welcome to hang in here a bit longer, for answers from more people (it always helps), or you can contact @SD_MOA or @TeeTMI and ask them. They are the forum's resident agents, and often answer questions about visas for free.

 

[RYLC]

Okay I didn't get your real question at first either then.  You get to choose which visa you apply for.  People on the SOL and in the right age group with no other special circumstances that make their application problematic apply for 189 and that is it.  People with insufficient points for whatever reason apply for 190.  With the 190 you can choose specific states during the application phase so in your case if you went for the 190 for some reason then you would choose only VIC and see what happens.  I get the feeling that you think that if you apply for 190 then whichever state picks you, you have to go with. That is not the case.  You pick the state you want during the application.  Hopefully I've understood what you are asking this time

 

 

[GonzoTho]

1 hour ago, RYLC said:

Okay I didn't get your real question at first either then.  You get to choose which visa you apply for.  People on the SOL and in the right age group with no other special circumstances that make their application problematic apply for 189 and that is it.  People with insufficient points for whatever reason apply for 190.  With the 190 you can choose specific states during the application phase so in your case if you went for the 190 for some reason then you would choose only VIC and see what happens.  I get the feeling that you think that if you apply for 190 then whichever state picks you, you have to go with. That is not the case.  You pick the state you want during the application.  Hopefully I've understood what you are asking this time

 

 

 

Yeah, thanks. I misunderstood the EOI process as well. I thought you submit a general EOI and then someone that sides evaluates you and either decides you have to apply for a 190 or gives you the option of applying for a 189. I am the right age and have no special circumstances. It seems I should easily make the required number of points as well. I assume there is no hidden benefits in applying for a 190 over a 189? 

[RedPanda]

1 minute ago, GonzoTho said:

I am the right age and have no special circumstances. It seems I should easily make the required number of points as well. I assume there is no hidden benefits in applying for a 190 over a 189? 

 

To the best of my knowledge, no, there are no benefits of a 190 over a 189 apart from the bonus 5 points for your application. You can check this all on http://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Work . This is the official government website, and their information is supposed to be the authority on all visa matters. It can sometimes be difficult to navigate, but just persevere, it pays off.