WayneAndMel Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 Hi all We've got a bit of an odd situation and would dearly love anyone's insight or advice on this quite urgently. Originally we arranged that only Wayne would go through to Oz on an LSD trip while Mel would stay in SA with the boys for nearly 2 weeks. But after lots of debate and discussion at the 'last minute dot com' tonight. We're thinking we should all go. There are arguments both for and against it in our mind but we're sort of caught in the swirl of emotions at the moment and probably can't see the situation completely objectively. Wayne is supposed to fly out this Friday and it's indeed still possible to get tickets on the same flight. By the same token it is quite pricey when factoring in all the sudden costs although we could endure them. Wayne's also getting a worrying intuitive feeling going alone not so much for himself but if Mel will cope and be ok with the two boys while he's away - and it would be tough on her based on our kids young ages. We've also been very disappointed by the lack of support other people - friends and family - locally in SA have been able to give as we admittedly thought they'd be more helpful based on past conduct. Whether it's because of some sort of subtle unconscious dislike of us emigrating we can only speculate and that's not the point either way - just that it's surprised us and caught us off guard. So should we throw caution to the wind and all head off or not? Wayne's already booked accommodation for the first leg and he'd forfeit the monies for it he tries to cancel now. It's about R3k which does matter to us but in the overall scheme of costs and moving and all later will probably be small. Or are we getting caught out by the fallacy of 'sunk costs'? Wayne can however cancel his Brisbane and Melbourne accommodation in time for us to try obtain more family friendly accommodation. We'd also have to sort out the matter of getting everyone around Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane in all this time and are not sure what to do there? We'll have to cross that bridge when we come to it. We do have some credit card facilities to draw on and already some forex. Ultimately it would probably also make sense for us both to see and get the sense of the 3 cities to decide on which one we both want to go to but does make sense for others looking at this situation? Please let us know! Looking forward to your answers! Wayne & Mel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneACT Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 (edited) @WayneAndMel My wife and I decided not to do a LSD. We figured it would cost a lot for us to find out what we already knew - and that was we wanted to emigrate to make a new life in Australia, and we wanted to leave South Africa. We decided to rather use our savings to do it once and make it count. What we focused on was to find a job in Australia first. You should have a shortlist of where you want to live - look in those areas. Once you have a job, the move becomes a lot easier. Without a job, it will be very difficult to enjoy it anywhere unless you have good savings and good fortune. We also didn't want to do any part of it alone. So why not jump in feet first together? Well that's how we saw it anyway. There is nothing wrong with a LSD, but it wasn't for us. Like I said, for us finding a good job was priority number one. Get into Australia. Make some Aus$ and then you have the luxury of deciding where you want to settle. Good luck with your decision. I don't think you can make an incorrect decision in this case. You must do what works for you. Edited May 31, 2016 by WayneACT 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SML Posted June 1, 2016 Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 We didn't do a LSD as we just didn't have the money. I had been before and my husband trusted me and we just decided ,as WayneACT said, we would get to Oz and then be able to look around and decide which place was our forever home. But, saying that, it is soooo expensive to travel from Perth to the other side of Oz that we aren't able to check out the other side at the moment...... If you are planning on moving over soon, I personally wouldn't waste the money on a LSD but if we had had the money, maybe we would have done it. That probably doesn't help your decision! Very hard decision! Good luck!b As WayneACT says, there is no incorrect decision..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riekie Posted June 1, 2016 Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 Hi Wayne & Mel, not sure who wrote the post (Wayne or Mel) - but my response is mainly in relation to your concern about the kids being with Mel for 2 weeks. This may be the ideal opportunity for you to see if you can handle the tough times, as in Australia, you will not have any family or support system, especially initially until you make some friends and if for instance, Wayne is going to work and Mel stays at home with the kids, this is something she will have to deal with on a daily basis (most stay at home mums look after their own kids, clean their own homes, go to the grocery store alone with their kids in tow and they have to deal with it). Childcare, baby-sitters and nannies are expensive and from your post I gather you won't have the money for these "luxuries" initially. I have to be brutally honest here, if Mel cannot cope with her kids for 2 weeks, she will have a hard time in Australia. There are so many things which you will have to face once you get here - either together or on your own - and if you can't cope with it now, you probably won't cope with it here. I don't mean to sound harsh but Immigration is hard - and anyone telling you it is a breeze, is probably not being totally honest. The reward however is immeasurable! 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dora Posted June 1, 2016 Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 (edited) Hi Wayne, I absolutely agree with Riekie. The first time we went over our son was 2.5 and our girl 5 months. It is a hectic time to go over and none of it was easy. Even taking the kids to a playgroup can involve some cleaning chores at the end, and that is usually at the time when the kids are really tired and and throw the big tantrums. Going grocery shopping with 2 small kids are also a challenge as for some reason, with all the things that Australia does right, making shopping trolleys that runs straight is not one of them. So a simple trip to Woolies can be mentally and physically exhausting. I don't mean to dwell of the point here. But if you ask me I will say the following: - All three the cities that you will go to is very liveable places with Brisbane's weather just a bit warmer throughout the year compared to the others. - If your kids will not have an influence in the decision making process it might be a waiste of money to take them on the trip now. - For Mel to stay here with the kids for two weeks with little support might just be good to get a feel of what everyday life in Aus will be like. See it as a challenge and give your domestic worker some time off in those 2 weeks too. - I think you should go alone and see if you can line up interviews in all the cities and see if you can land a job before you take the family over. That would really be first prize. This might sound harsh but it is hard with 2 small kids, but absolutely worth it. Everybody is doing it there and they cope eventually. Getting use to a different normal is what you have to do now. All the best with your trip and decisions that you now have to make. Liz Edited June 1, 2016 by Dora 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellfish Posted June 1, 2016 Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 (edited) I am not sure where you are in the visa process but bear in mind that you'll need to validate your visas once granted and that will mean that you'll all need to go. I would wait until then - travelling with small kids is a lot of work and stress. Edited June 1, 2016 by Shellfish 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pensies Posted June 1, 2016 Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 @WayneAndMel It is a difficult decision. For my family, we all have our Visas and can make the move at any time. I have read that many people made the decision to just move. We decided to go on a LSD trip in June and activate our Visas and make sure that we all buy into the same dream, even my son that is 10. It is not easy! If all do not agree, it will end up in even bigger tears! Good luck with your decision! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rozellem Posted June 1, 2016 Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 I would stay. You will save money at a crucial time when you should be squirelling away as much as you can (plus the Rand is so weak), Mel will flex her Aussie-mommy-style muscles at home and Wayne will be able to do twice as much without the whole circus in tow. ( We live in Sydney with a 4 and 6 year old, so I know all about the circus). Good luck. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alchemist Posted June 1, 2016 Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 Is this trip to activate visas or just to look at Oz? If the latter, let him go alone, if the former obviously all have to go. Our activation for PR in 2015 cost us for 2 weeks (3 cities) around R150K, the Rand to Aus $ was around 8.9 so it will cost probably 25% more now? and that was with a 13 month old so no extra tickets etc (so really a 2 adult trip). 2 adults and older kids would be probably double that. Not worth a look see trip but a visa activation definitely! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneAndMel Posted June 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 Thanks all. Food for thought and it had us also mulling things a lot. We went in circles emotionally several times on this It is in fact indeed a visa activation and other admin exercise first (e.g. bank accounts, car licence, etc), and then a look-see. We're also wanting to look at specific 'kindy' schools. It also takes some pressure off us going time wise as our original timeframe may admittedly slip and it also allows us to properly move savings out SA given our monopoly money, pieces of paper, Rands. In the end we decided to go through - hoping to make it through the flight without too much stress. We've also been without a domestic since February, having decided to keep it that way as a learning curve to not having domestic help in Oz. And, yes. That alone has been tough, especially learning to do washing and garbage at 9pm, but we've learnt a bit about what's to come. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rozellem Posted June 1, 2016 Report Share Posted June 1, 2016 Where are yiu thinking of relocating to? What do you mean by Kindy school? Remember (confusingly) that almost each state has a different name for the two years before school (pre school in NSW) and the first year of big school ( Kindy in NSW). Just a random tip I use almost daily. I use the delayed start function in my washing machine. I pack it just before I go to bed, set it to start just before 5 am on a long eco wash (2:20), so I quickly hang the washing out at 7am and take it off the line again that night. It has changed my life. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dora Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 I used to go out every Thursday night (late night shopping) with my hushand baby sitting that night. I usually went out alone and even if I just got a coffee and had it in peace helped me keep my sanity. It is difficult to wing small kids and the household stuff and Thursday nights became my lifeline at that stage. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rozellem Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 As Dora says, every Thursday most shops ( even hair salons) are open till 9 pm. Besides that, the supermarkets stay open very late. I sometimes go at 8 pm on a Sunday night for the big food shop and love the peace and quiet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneAndMel Posted June 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 @rozellem By Kindy we mean the kindergarten age group. We're still considering Sydney/Brisbane/Melbourne at this stage. We're actually in Brisbane at the moment and it has indeed been quite taxing lugging all the luggage/family along and just getting around. We have found Sydney more amenable than we thought it would be but Brisbane has declined in relative standing in our view thus far based on what we've seen. So the next 2 days travels around it are critical if that view is to change at all. Melbourne is the last major visit. However the lesson is as difficult and as costly as this trip is in itself it is giving us a more informed view on which city to ultimately move to. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFreshStart Posted June 10, 2016 Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 7 minutes ago, WayneAndMel said: @rozellem By Kindy we mean the kindergarten age group. @WayneAndMel As @rozellem shared, Kindy in NSW is the first year of school, not pre-school as it is in some States. All children in NSW must be registered for school by age 6 and you can start the year you turn 5, as long as you make the June cut-off. Kindy to Grade 6 is how most schools run. Where are you thinking? Sydney has over 600 suburbs and I have no idea where you are in Sydney, @rozellem was out Inner West way if memory serves, but is now in Frenches Forrest, I on the other hand live within the City of Sydney Municipality, on the City fringe (8mins into the CBD by bus). I can recommend schools in and close to the City and as part as the Inner West, but wouldn't have a clue about other places. If you narrow it down a bit I'm sure you'll receive more help/advice. Enjoy your stay! Cheers Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneAndMel Posted June 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 @AFreshStart Thanks. We keep getting our terms mixed up in general as we weren't aware that Australia is more distinctly federated not just politically but even socially like with terms. Our kids are just under 3 years and 4 months in age so we should have time once we arrive. Area wise we found we instantly liked areas in and around Manly and more the northern areas where the ferries take people to work. We were shown some eastern areas I can't remember the names to but they seemed disappointing with the very heavy property price tags. We had it a bit rough in the CBD unfortunately. We were accosted 3 times by weirdos who harassed us, probably for having small children with us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFreshStart Posted June 10, 2016 Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 2 minutes ago, WayneAndMel said: @AFreshStart Thanks. We keep getting our terms mixed up in general as we weren't aware that Australia is more distinctly federated not just politically but even socially like with terms. Our kids are just under 3 years and 4 months in age so we should have time once we arrive. Area wise we found we instantly liked areas in and around Manly and more the northern areas where the ferries take people to work. We were shown some eastern areas I can't remember the names to but they seemed disappointing with the very heavy property price tags. We had it a bit rough in the CBD unfortunately. We were accosted 3 times by weirdos who harassed us, probably for having small children with us. @WayneAndMel Wow, sorry you had that experience, never been ours and we were out with our kids for VIVID last night (ages 3 & 5) till 8.30pm, going in and out on public transport as we always do. Where about in the CBD were you? Three times! It's busier because of VIVID and Thursday is also late night shopping. Depending on when you arrive you will need a daycare, not Kindy. Daycare's come in all shapes and sizes. Average costs here for long-term is around $125 a day per child, if you're eligible you will get some back in the way of CCR. Long terms run 7am-6pm typically, you can also look at a non-profit like KU, which is around half the price, my daughters hours are 8am-5pm. There's not much not to like about Manly or the Northern Beaches, but then again, that's a bit like saying I'd love to live in Manhattan in NYC, until you realize the costs involved. The average median price of a home in Sydney is around $1-million. Homes over in the Eastern Suburbs can easily fetch $4-$8 million for the 3-4 bedroom, and Manly, well much the same. The best 'value' for money is Rose Bay where the median price is $3.1million. Something to be aware of, which isn't often discussed here, is that when you live in South Africa if you're in the middle class, you're in the top 1% of the countries wealth, here, if we match our income/jobs we fall in around 70%, just to give you some perspective. Time and time again I've met migrants who have committed to a place, using what savings they have and watch it be eaten away by living in areas they really can't afford to be in, not taking into account their monthly expenses, time away from home, travel times and costs etc. While Manly is lovely, and you mention the ferries, if you are stuck in the city pulling an all nighter and miss the last one home, that no longer a $7.00 ferry ride, it's a $50 cab fair home. Ouch. Enjoy the rest of the trip and your visit to Melbourne. Cheers Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rozellem Posted June 10, 2016 Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 4 hours ago, WayneAndMel said: We had it a bit rough in the CBD unfortunately. We were accosted 3 times by weirdos who harassed us, probably for having small children with us. ^ That would have been @AFreshStart and his friends! No seriously, we have never had that issue in Sydney, and I am a Nutter-Magnet! On the childcare front, I so wish the states would all sing from the same sheet, but as with many things in politics, it defies logic. As a bit of a general guide in Sydney: A 3 year old goes to Pre-School 2 days a week (8:30 -3:30), a 4 year old goes to Pre-School 3 days a week for the same hours, then a 5 year old goes to his first year of big school and it is called Kindy. So in total, they end up going to big school for 13 years. Manly is 15mins from me, so shout if you want any Northern Beaches advice, besides always making sure you live on a hill. (I live my life by that one) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dora Posted June 10, 2016 Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 (edited) We did a quite comprehensive LSD trip back in 2008. I was the difficult one because I was of the opinion that if I'm going to uproot my whole life in SA and plant myself in a different country, I didn't just want to move to a place just because I had family over in a certain city (not realising at that stage what a blessing that actually is)...So we started our LSD trip in Brisbane where the in-law family stays...I cried myself to sleep every night that we stayed there, not wanting to ever ever stay in such a boring, dull (they had drought there over a December period) place....I later felt better about Australia when we visited Sydney and fell in love with Australia in Perth....2 years later my husband got a job in Brisbane and so I went to the place that I despised the most. Point is, Brisbane can be deceiving. I absolutely loved staying there and I can't wait to go back soon. It is extremely difficult to judge a place in 2 or 3 days and then there is personal preferences that you might have that makes it difficult. Just in terms of schools, in QLD the year before you go to Gr 1 is called "prep". That is usually the year when you turn 5 if you were born before July and part of the primary school. The year before "prep" is called "kindy" and you join in the year that you turn 4 if born before July. Most kindy's operate on a 5 day fortnightly bases which means that they alternate 2 groups in a school and the one week your child goes for 3 days and the other week they go for 2 days. All the best with your trip and decisions. Edited June 10, 2016 by Mara 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneAndMel Posted June 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2016 Hi again all. Thanks for all the food for thought - we do take it into consideration even if we vacillate a bit. Just to give an update. Brisbane has actually recovered tremendously in our viewpoint from the time of the above post to now thanks in no small part to a friend who introduced us to the southern parts down to the Gold Coast. I (Wayne) also found I liked the Brisbane CBD more than the Sydney CBD for personal reasons. So Brisbane is back up there when we make our final decision. There are a lot of factors we have to consider when we get back to SA but we have also seen and learnt things about both Sydney and Brisbane we wouldn't have thought about or considered just with the Internet. With regards to being nutter magnets in Sydney I think we really are one and the incidents all happened around Central Station/the Haymarket area . We had a guy who was ranting at everyone and then started following and screaming at us - we eventually had to dive into a ladies shoe shop and he scowled at us before resuming his general ranting at the world as he walked off . Another creepy one with very long nails wanted to talk to our two year old with us and another was generally abusive but walked off on his own after his verbal assault outside Central Station. Maybe it was because we were pushing prams that we drew attention to ourselves. Anyway, it's onto Melbourne now for the next few days. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 13, 2016 Report Share Posted June 13, 2016 Hope you have a great experience in Melbourne Wayne. There are some really lovely suburbs and so much to see in such a short time. I initially did not like Melbourne at first,after coming from Perth I found it a bit run down what with the graffiti etc but It has definitely grown on me. It is a very unique place. I hope you enjoy your visit. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPanda Posted June 14, 2016 Report Share Posted June 14, 2016 On 6/13/2016 at 10:20 AM, WayneAndMel said: With regards to being nutter magnets in Sydney I think we really are one and the incidents all happened around Central Station/the Haymarket area . We had a guy who was ranting at everyone and then started following and screaming at us - we eventually had to dive into a ladies shoe shop and he scowled at us before resuming his general ranting at the world as he walked off . Another creepy one with very long nails wanted to talk to our two year old with us and another was generally abusive but walked off on his own after his verbal assault outside Central Station. Maybe it was because we were pushing prams that we drew attention to ourselves. For real??? Wow, you were very unlucky. I hope you have a better experience in Melbourne. I must say, the weather has been particularly good these past few days. Although Melbourne may look a bit scruffy around the edges, we have never had any issues with 'nutters'. Here's to a good trip in Melbs! Cheers! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellfish Posted June 15, 2016 Report Share Posted June 15, 2016 We have found there to be quite a lot of homeless people who often have a mental illness (the two generally go hand in hand). Sydney certainly has it's fair share but Melbourne does also. I have only been to Brisbane once for a weekend trip but I thought it was great - admittedly we only saw the city centre and then left for the sunshine coast so a very narrow perspective but I would move to Queensland tomorrow but hubby would never do it - he can't handle the humidity. Hence, we are off to Perth. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFreshStart Posted June 15, 2016 Report Share Posted June 15, 2016 On 2016/06/13 at 10:20 AM, WayneAndMel said: With regards to being nutter magnets in Sydney I think we really are one and the incidents all happened around Central Station/the Haymarket area . We had a guy who was ranting at everyone and then started following and screaming at us - we eventually had to dive into a ladies shoe shop and he scowled at us before resuming his general ranting at the world as he walked off . Another creepy one with very long nails wanted to talk to our two year old with us and another was generally abusive but walked off on his own after his verbal assault outside Central Station. Maybe it was because we were pushing prams that we drew attention to ourselves. @WayneAndMel ah, that clears things up! Central, along with Town Square have the highest concentration of homeless in the city, many calling 'tent city' home in Belrose Park. Some are down on their luck, teen runaways, some suffer from mental illness and further still are those on drugs or the bottle. This is not limited to Sydney though, as @Shellfish shared, Melbourne is no different, neither in New York or London from personal experience. Personally I've never had an incident, alone or with my children and if people start up conversation I'll often greet them, maybe even chat for bit, many of them just want to know they're valued and there are various NGO's doing amazing work in supporting their needs. Vinnie's feeds the homeless in Prince Alfred Park every Saturday where our kids have swimming lessons, and again we've again never had an incident and found them courteous. By comparison I couldn't walk out at night on Bree or Long Street in Cape Town without being harassed, threatened or offered some kind of illegal substance, maybe I've grown a thick skin. The City is proactive in trying to support those struggling and have already lowered the homeless rate in Belrose Park by half. In the recent storms community workers sought out the needy and placed them in shelters or provided extra blankets, meals etc. They also do quarterly street counts, both in hostels and with those sleeping rough, they use this to gauge how effective these measures are and at last count there were 890 homeless in the Sydney, out of a City of 4,391,674 people (at last census), just to put things in perspective. Cheers Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneAndMel Posted June 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2016 Well we've made it back to JHB in one piece without leaving anyone or any beloved toy behind! Several people commented in the way back to SA how we were very brave taking 2 small children with as we did. The trip hasn't been easy at times but it's also painted a much more realistic and detailed picture for us that's notably different from what we thought before. I can see now how each city can appeal to different people and each has their merits in their own rights. So now it's onto deciding what's best for the family and lots of time spent doing calculations in Excel! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.