zamunda Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 (edited) This is just a rant. I am so pissed with people. We have a friend who after quite an effort by his wife has been convinced to make the move to Oz. They came on a LSD trip last year and he was quite happy with everything and turned out to be very keen to get the process rolling. Since getting back to RSA, they have got the ball rolling. In the meantime, friends and family (and work mates) who have heard of their plans seems to be out on a mission to discourage them it appears. Not a week goes by when our friend get's sent emails (grabs from the internet) on racialism, crime, unemployment, road rage, drug abuse, etc here in Oz. He then asks us to explain all this. He now thinks that the few days spent on the LSD trip simply did not highlight "these issues" and feels that they should reconsider the whole thing. We are so fed up, told him to watch the Oz news feeds and RSA news feeds daily and use his common sense to make the comparison. What is wrong with people to feed others with so much negativity?!! Edited March 16, 2016 by zamunda 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odendaal Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 I don't think we will ever understand.... It was quite hilarious watching the news the other night. One of the main topics was how some parents are including their kids in their extreme sports activities and how many Australian's feel that this is not good for the kid's development. THAT is news? haha I could live like this! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPanda Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 People can be so selfish, scared, and jealous... Just live and let live! ..and let live! Special emphasis on that last little bit, hey. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skapie Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 My OH always says, let the sun shine on others too. Sadly that is not everyone's take on life... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcmiller Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 My theory is that these people either cannot leave or are scared to leave so they need to justify their decision to stay in SA. The thing is, you need to be very clear on why you wish to leave and have a strong resolve. Everywhere has problems, even Australia has crime, the difference is that its a lot less violent, you are highly likely to walk away from a mugging unscathed. If you do your homework you realize that unemployment in oz is less than 10% unlike the sky high rate it is in SA. Unemployment is everywhere but in varying degrees. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellfish Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 People are panicking - they don't want to be the only ones left in the sinking ship, I guess... It's also delusional to think that Aus doesn't have it's own share of problems - nowhere is crime or problem free but I don't make it to the end a week in Australia and give a sigh of relief that I wasn't murdered, raped, mugged, burgled, hijacked....I just kind of assume that my family will be safe... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 @zamunda in my experience so far, when discussing emigration, there are people who are 1) understanding (how far along the spectrum they go towards being supportive and encouraging is very variable and depends on your relationship with the person and their level of insight, and 2) detractors. The psychology behind this second category is something I really struggle to identify with, but they seem to be bound together by accusations like: you are jumping ship, you are unpatriotic, you can't just leave your family here, you are just worsening the economy by leaving, etc. I am not sure that I've developed very effective responses to this second category. Emigration is such a personal decision. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairGo Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 (edited) Best advice I can give you...stop trying to explain yourself to others who are not planning to emigrate. It is as if they justify why they are staying and convince themselves that it is not that bad. Personally, I think they don't want to give up their comfortable lifestyle because wealth means more to them than safety. You have enough to deal with....stress and roller coaster of emotions. I dont think they understand how difficult this process is. My opinion is that they think you are taking the easy way out.... This process is anything but easy. Surround yourself with family and friends who support you. Avoid the topic with those who dont. Edited March 16, 2016 by FairGo 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DXB2OZ Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 Watch/read the local Oz news is the best advice. Put him on the forum. And then step back - but not before asking one question: How many of these apparent experts on all things Australian have ever set foot in Oz? And perhaps point out that the fruit bats aren't actually the same size as a human being - just one of many Aussie legends. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPanda Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 Ahw...don't spoil the 'fruitbat surprise'! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HadEnoughofJuju Posted March 16, 2016 Report Share Posted March 16, 2016 (edited) Unfortunately it's the African way to not allow anyone else to have their spot in the sun. The people that quote all the bad news about australia are usually the ones who have never been (or lived) here. Tell your friend to ask these people the next time he gets an email if South Africa has any of the follow: A public health system that works. A police force that actually protects and serves. An education system instead of a sausage machine. A water suplier that provides clean water. Electricity that keeps flowing. Uni's that give every student a fair go. There are so many things that Australia has that South Africa doesn't (and probably never will) have. You don't even need to compare the crime rates or news feeds, just start with the infrastructure. People who have the opportunity to leave and don't are the ones who get me riled up. Edited March 16, 2016 by HadEnoughofJuju 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunnyskies Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 We heard similar things before we left, and we were a bit worried. But essentially this is a decision that he will need to make for himself. The main difference between South Africa and Australia when it comes to crime stats is that a lot of crime that happens in Australia is aired on TV, so you can see a short video clip of someone being mugged, rather than hearing once a year on whether murder has increased or decreased from the year previous. In South Africa if they had to publicise every event you would never get to see anything else on TV. My eyes are not closed to crime in Australia, and yes your children could get involved in drugs, and you could be robbed, but on the whole the probability is lower. The one item that he should be mindful of is drugs, as there is generally more cash throughout society everyone is a target for pushers, especially our children who are looking at the age of 15 or 16 to find their wings and not be protected by mom and dad, and as society is generally safer it is tough to stop them from going out independently or insist on picking them up from venues. But, as for most things, as a parent you have to recognize that at some point you need to stop clipping their wings and pray that your parenting for the previous 14 to 15 years stands them in good stead to deal with those sorts of temptations. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OubaasDik Posted March 17, 2016 Report Share Posted March 17, 2016 I have no idea why people do stupid mean stuff like that, but you can point your friend at this and get him to download this where he can page to Figure 2.2 (page 22) and see Australia at number 9 and he can page further down and see South Africa at position 116. Then he can decide where he would rather live, retire and raise kids (not necessarily in that order). Luckily when I left all my mates were really happy for me. I still make a point of seeing them the vanishingly few times I go back and we still get along. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rozellem Posted March 18, 2016 Report Share Posted March 18, 2016 @zamunda All of us on here ( and anybody with internet access) knows these trumped up Aussie "facts" are very creative. The issue I see is how your friend has put the success of his immigration squarely on your shoulders. This is very unfair and definitely not practical. You have to take a stand immediately and not let it continue any longer. They are adults and have to take control of their own lives. Otherwise every tiny dip the immigration rollercoaster makes, will be held agains you personally. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFreshStart Posted March 18, 2016 Report Share Posted March 18, 2016 On 2016/03/16 at 9:51 PM, DXB2OZ said: And perhaps point out that the fruit bats aren't actually the same size as a human being - just one of many Aussie legends They are still MASSIVE! Flying Foxes as well call them frequent the parks here and have a wing span of up to 1m. Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it's a BIG A$$ Bat! Ha Ha. Cheers Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPanda Posted March 18, 2016 Report Share Posted March 18, 2016 1 hour ago, AFreshStart said: They are still MASSIVE! Flying Foxes as well call them frequent the parks here and have a wing span of up to 1m. Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it's a BIG A$$ Bat! Ha Ha. Cheers Matt I remember the first time I saw one in real life thinking: No way! Nothing that big is supposed to be able to fly so slowly. They are like zoomed in, slow motion versions of the tiny bats we get in RSA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rozellem Posted March 18, 2016 Report Share Posted March 18, 2016 1 hour ago, RedPanda said: I remember the first time I saw one in real life thinking: No way! Nothing that big is supposed to be able to fly so slowly. They are like zoomed in, slow motion versions of the tiny bats we get in RSA. My biggest issue with them was, that they were hanging upside down ( in their hundreds) from a tree in BROAD DAYLIGHT having their sleep. TV led me to believe they would be in a cave or another dark hole like that. Not in a public park, in Sydney, at 2pm on a Wed afternoon in January. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPanda Posted March 18, 2016 Report Share Posted March 18, 2016 1 minute ago, rozellem said: My biggest issue with them was, that they were hanging upside down ( in their hundreds) from a tree in BROAD DAYLIGHT having their sleep. TV led me to believe they would be in a cave or another dark hole like that. Not in a public park, in Sydney, at 2pm on a Wed afternoon in January. Hahaha...how brazen of them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackoFam Posted March 18, 2016 Report Share Posted March 18, 2016 @zamunda I will would find that incredibly frustrating if that happened to me. I have been very fortunate so far as most people here in South Africa have been very supportive - just this week I have been telling clients that I will be leaving them and starting to make plans for someone to take over my business and every single one of them are sad to be losing me but are happy for me and my family. The only ones who are slightly (very slightly) negative about Australia are our family in the UK and that is only because they really would like us to come and live close to them 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussellJ Posted March 18, 2016 Report Share Posted March 18, 2016 1. People who cannot leave (age, money, skills, health, responsibilities, fear) would want you to stay in the pot too. Tinged with bitterness or jealousy. 2. Those who have an option to leave (alternate passports as backup) subconsciously do not fear the consequences of things going south as much as those who do not. I believe this journey is akin to buying someone a book to read. 9 out of 10, they won't read it unless they actually purchased the book themselves. When they purchase it themselves, they have something invested in it, they wanted it, there's a greater chance of them reading it. Your friend needs to "buy" it, no amount of convincing can "sell" him on it. You can advise, extol the virtues of and and and. But until he makes the connection, your wonderful advise may not penetrate. It is probably frustrating you but don't beat yourself up about it. You can take the horse to the water...but if he prefers klippies and coke... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OubaasDik Posted March 18, 2016 Report Share Posted March 18, 2016 1 hour ago, rozellem said: My biggest issue with them was, that they were hanging upside down ( in their hundreds) from a tree in BROAD DAYLIGHT having their sleep. TV led me to believe they would be in a cave or another dark hole like that. Not in a public park, in Sydney, at 2pm on a Wed afternoon in January. I hear it's not great getting underneath them - their bladder control leaves a lot to be desired ..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlmonnink Posted May 1, 2016 Report Share Posted May 1, 2016 This usually happens because those doing the discouragement are too scared to make the leap themselves, can't afford it or will not be eligible to apply for a visa. I've been in Melbourne for 6 weeks now and funnily enough the emotions etc only got me when I actually got here. I was like "WTF have I done". Anyone I'm enjoying it. Love the public transport and the freedom to just go for a walk whenever I want. The crime is on the rise here though, although not nearly to the degree of South Africa. Plenty of drug (ice) related crime and then the Sudanese and other refugees stealing and attacking people. I do see a few murders on the TV but it usually revolves around relatives or family disputes or family members on drugs, crimes of passion etc. Like anywhere there will always be crime but it doesn't keep you up at night here and you don't constantly stress about your safety. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneAndMel Posted May 14, 2016 Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 With respect to family members being negative about ones decision to emigrate my mother has now twice disowned me while my sister won't talk to me warmly either and my father is distant. It's probably a mixture of attempted manipulation and spite with the psychology others above have written of but it's still upsetting. Especially how they believe it's appropriate behaviour when it denies/hurts their own grandchildren/nephews. When our eldest asks when we're going to 'Nah-na' I just don't know what to say but try visualise how I won't be able to afford sending him to a good university when he's older or him having his future wrecked As for friends/colleagues that behave this way, it also really annoys me and comes across as crude 'what about me???' reasoning from some of them. I've gotten the lines about 'Australians are horrible people/Australia's got the most deadly animals in the world/unemployment is surging there/you won't have living space/you'll never own property/traffic is terrible/they also have crime/your life will be terrible/etc' At least some friends who always said Australia is just not for them have the mind to not repeat the above behaviour and rather say 'we'll miss you, please stay in touch via any means'. That actually makes me hesitate more than claims of killer animals on the loose, rampaging serial killer gangs, threats of eternal poverty and how I'm going to be maimed and killed 17 times when I get off the plane. OK, the last one isn't true but it all eventually begins to sound that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 14, 2016 Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 This sort of post absolutely infuriates me. What give anyone the right to dictate to you what you should or shouldn’t do with your life. This is even worse when the people in your life who are supposed to be there for you at difficult times like these, aren’t. I can completely understand Family being disappointed by the fact that you are leaving to live in another Country, you are moving on and making the most of your life, but that’s it Wayne, this is your life and not theirs. We never had these issues thankfully, yes my husband’s parents were quite sad whenever we brought the issue up of moving to Oz, but at no time did they try to dissuade us, they encouraged us in fact because they wanted the best for their grandson and they could see that South Africa was going downhill very fast. The opportunities for children in SA are very limited whereas here in, they aren’t OZ they are limitless regardless of earning potential. We did receive some comments very similar to your “friends” regarding Australia, you wont afford housing, Aussies aren’t friendly, there’s no work etc. Let me tell you as many others will on this forum with firsthand experience, its absolute twaddle!! Yes there is good and bad wherever you go, but I lived in SA for 11 years and never felt as much at home as I do here. Australians on the whole are extremely friendly and warm and inviting. I feel it is much easier to buy a home here, obviously depending where you live of course, and where you decide to buy will not be like a fortress with electric fences and burglar bars, our house doesn’t even have a fence J There is also lots of work opportunities here. The Government here encourages learning and up skilling too and people regardless from all walks of life can have a new start here if they are prepared to work hard. Crime, of course there is crime, but in the 8 months that we have been living in Melbourne I have never once felt uneasy going out of my house, I walk my son to school, we go to the parks, we take public transport everywhere, we came home once on the train at 10:30 and walked it back from the bus stop. These may be little things to some, but they are major things to us. You shouldn’t have to live looking behind your shoulder. I think when people make comments or react in this way it’s a combination of fear and also ignorance. You are trying to do the best by your family, and give your children a good life. If you stayed because of your family’s manipulation you would not be happy and would grow to resent them. If I was in your shoes, I would write your family a letter and explain to them why you are leaving and how they are making you feel by treating you and your children in this way. I say a letter because you can always think about what you want to say in a letter and it can be re-read many times before it sinks in. A letter cannot be interrupted either. I hope that your family comes around, even if they are not completely happy with the decision they must accept it and make the most of the time left with you and their grandchildren, they will regret it if they do. It would be such a shame. Wayne you just stick to your guns and don’t let people put you off, nobody on the forum will say to you that Australia does not have its problems, but they are no way to be compared to SA. You can have a wonderful life here for you and your children. All the best to you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneAndMel Posted May 15, 2016 Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 Thanks emmayenkanna . I like the idea of the letter. Facts might not help them get over their emotions but it'll certainly help us feel we tried our best with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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