Guest Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 Hi all, Some might remember my username. I was active on here for a short while 6 months back and read virtually everything that had been posted since the beginning of time. To recap, it's just me and my husband (now with added cat and rabbit); living in Cape Town Southern Suburbs; aged 28 and 33, respectively; I have visited Aus twice, but husband not. Last year I had planned to book a trip for us for this month (March 2016), but I couldn't go through with it. Maybe some can relate, but I became a semi-satisfied ostrich with head in the sand and convinced myself that everything here was tolerable. This week, though, something occurred very close to home (literally). For those who still care to follow SA news, please Google Tokai and you will see a string of news articles that highlight what has happened: please do not read if you are particularly sensitive. This event occurred approximately 2km from my house (situated in a leafy, upmarket residential suburb), but violence doesn't discriminate. Today I cancelled the flights I booked to Mauritius for our holiday in August. Instead we will be coming to Sydney. I'm not sure in what month yet. We are able to come in any month after June. Please send some thoughts, strength and any advice for the dizzy journey that lies ahead of us. I am sitting here feeling incredibly repulsed and frightened, but also determined to move from what has become an unbearable landscape to live in. I wish I could just fast track us to the other side. Alas, I know how much still has to be done. Thank you to all on here who continue to assist those like me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mara Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 I guess sometimes it takes a situation like this to throw off your ostrich feathers and look at life realistically. I am glad for you that you have done so and that you will be looking into a move to Australia, again. A good month to visit Sydney would probably be October, then it should be warmer for you and no need for thick coats. We have been in Australia nearly nineteen years now, best thing we ever did, by far! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeneandp Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 Hi @KirstenT, I agree completely - we also wanted to make the move in 2008 - but kept thinking that things might change - and it would not be necessary to leave. Every time I read an update on that Tokai murder, I feel sick to my stomach We have two children (aged 11 and 13), and we would like to teach them some responsibility and allow them freedom to explore - but I don't even feel save to let them walk the dog or ride their bikes in our neighbourhood. I am now more convinced than ever that we made the right decision - for ourselves and our children. Also - I share your "wish we could fast track" thought. Can't wait to start our journey - hoping to land in Perth(permanently) by December 2016 at the latest. Good luck on your journey! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweepea Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 @KirstenTglad you are making the move. I guess we all get into a comfort zone and immigrating is really tough but that's initially. We got our visas on 29Feb and already fly on 4July. I wish you all the best in getting ready for your move. Have you looked at the post on the checklist for getting ready to leave and even before that? unfortunately I just cant find it right now. Yes, there is lots to do but if you do one thing a day to get ready for your departure it adds up. Remember to book your flights through IOM in Pretoria for extra baggage allowance viz 40kgs and cheaper flights. they will need visa grant letters. have your visas been granted? S 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanneke12345 Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 I must say that this Tokai murder has really made me realize that I cannot stay in South Africa. I love the outdoors, hiking , cycling and jogging, but I feel scared to do any of these alone or even with another person. Ironically I read an article this week about someone saying that they prefer living in South Africa because of all the 'freedom'. They say there are no rules here and you can do what you want. This is the main reason why I am actually trying to move to Australia, because I don't have the freedom here to do what I love. Being scared all the time is not normal and not the way I want to live the rest of my life. Luckily I found out today that I passed the IELTS exam so we are one step closer to leaving! I cannot wait to finally go for a run without having to look over my shoulder every second. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackoFam Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 Welcome @KirstenT and @Hanneke12345 Hope your journey goes smoothly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 Good luck with your journey Kirsten. You won't regret it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurferMan Posted March 12, 2016 Report Share Posted March 12, 2016 @Hanneke12345 Your picture says it all. You have just as much ability to move about in Aus but without the odds of being killed for it. Yes it can happen, but the odds are super low. In WA you could go weeks in the outback and not see another person at all. Most places are free and the beauty is preserved for the next person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DXB2OZ Posted March 12, 2016 Popular Post Report Share Posted March 12, 2016 We walk our dog in the morning before work, in the dark. Even if I work late, I still take my favorite route to the station, along the river, because it is really pretty and I enjoy it. We use the public transport system everyday. The kids ride their bikes to school and skateboard in the street outside our house. We have a burglar alarm which came with the house - I have no idea how to set it. We usually remember to lick the front door, but not always. If my 14 year old daughter wants to go into town, she rides her bike to the station and hops on a train. She will join the commuters with phone in pocket, earphones in, bopping her head in time to the music. If one of us is lost, we can ask someone for directions - one of the ordinary everyday people on the street. Nobody judges us us because of the car we do or don't drive. Nobody judges us because of the neighborhood we do or don't live in. Nobody judges us by our dress or jewelry. Both children are at the local government high school and getting an excellent education. My daughter is considering a science select entry high school for her VCEs (Std 9 and 10), but that is also government funded. By the time they reach university age, they will both qualify for HELP - a government scheme to support students through university. They will be able to apply for jobs based on skill and abilities, not quotas and skin colors. If they work for minimum wage, it is a living wage, not a pay level which will never enable a person to rise above squalor. They will have a passport enabling them to travel the world. And a country to come back to which has welcomed them with open arms, without shame, guilt or hatred. Dont nut know about you, but I feel unbelievably free. 16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistermoose Posted March 12, 2016 Report Share Posted March 12, 2016 1 hour ago, DXB2OZ said: We usually remember to lick the front door, but not always. Love everything you described about living a life of freedom, DXB! But doesn't this give you splinters? 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chips Posted March 12, 2016 Report Share Posted March 12, 2016 Welcome @KirstenT and @Hanneke12345 may your journeys be smooth and go according to your plans. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charne Posted March 12, 2016 Report Share Posted March 12, 2016 @KirstenT. We wish you all the best on journey to a safer place for you and your family. I reached the point where I knew South Africa is not the place for me when I tried to imagine raising childen here. The blatant disrespect toward life some people have is appalling. Sometimes it feels like it's the majority of people in ZA that are like that. Ingnorant with a sense of entitlement but they bring no value to society and their communities. All the best and stay safe. @mistermoose. I had a good laugh at that one! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DXB2OZ Posted March 12, 2016 Report Share Posted March 12, 2016 4 hours ago, mistermoose said: Love everything you described about living a life of freedom, DXB! But doesn't this give you splinters? Ooooops! ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandraDee Posted March 13, 2016 Report Share Posted March 13, 2016 We left Cape Town in Dec. We battled with the decision for the full year validity of our visa, arriving in Australia 3 days before our visa expired. Cape Town is such a beautiful place to live in that it is so easy to forget or turn a blind eye to all that is wrong around you. I never walked in the Mountains, never walked along the long stretches of beaches unless millions of others were around. My only walk was around the Tokai forest circuit. My friend and I often cutting through the quieter paths to avoid other dogs as hers was a bit unpredictable. I often felt uneasy. I realised that as beautiful as Cape Town was, I was not able to enjoy it. I worried when my children were a Blue Route on their own. They were never allowed to leave the estate without me. I was recently walking in a park with my husband on the Gold coast. We were the only people, it was getting dark and we found a little path along the river. I felt so safe. It is hard leaving your comfort zone, but I urge you to do it, as fast as you can. I am sure Franziska's parents wished they hadn't stayed so long in a place they were watching decay around them. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 13, 2016 Report Share Posted March 13, 2016 @Sweepea how I wish our visas had already been granted. Alas, we are at step zero. First, my hubby wants to get a feel for Australia. That's the thinking behind a two-week LSD. He accepts that we need to leave Cape Town, even if he's struggling with it, and knows this is the most logical place to go (we have family in Sydney, and I love the place: New Zealand is a close second for me). My unabridged birth certificate has just popped out of Home Affairs after a few months (though I see it's no longer a requirement for adults). However, I looked at the tourist visa checklist today and my heart sank, as there's a check box for the certificate. My hubby applied in July last year for his: still nothing. And our marriage certificate is also going nowhere slowly (we have the short-hand version and a copy of the longer one from the minister, but wanted an 'official' one, too, just in case). Is it REALLY a requirement for an adult wanting a tourist visa, not just kids? :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTtoAus Posted March 13, 2016 Report Share Posted March 13, 2016 Hi @KirstenT, I just want to say good luck with getting the ball rolling again. We (myself (36), hubby (39) with two boys, 2 and 4, living in the City Bowl) are also just starting the process. I understand exactly what a difficult decision this must be for both you and your husband. What has helped me a lot during recent weeks has been changing my mindset from focussing on the push-factors, to getting excited about the pull-factors. For you, being younger with no kids, everything will be much simpler. It will be an awesome adventure for you and your husband to embark on, and an opportunity to experience a new culture and gain valuable work experience. Worst case scenario, you come back, but with a passport in hand.There really is very little downside in going through with this. I wish you all the best with the difficult decisions coming your way and will be keeping an eye on your progress. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RYLC Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 Hi @KirstenT, welcome and all the best with your visa application. You might want to have a look at the requirements for importing animals because you won't be able to bring your rabbit. There is also a process for the quarantine part for your cat which has a specific timeline. We didn't import animals and also moved many years ago so I'm not up to speed on the actual steps of the process nowadays. Perhaps post a separate thread for this or search the forum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 @RYLC thanks very much for the pet advice. Sadly I already know about our rabbit. This pains me more than sounds reasonable, but he is more of a dog than a rabbit (lies with you on the couch, completely house trained, etc.). Our cat is a rescue animal and struggled being in a cat carrier for the 20km from a shelter to our home, so she won't cope travelling around 11 000km across the seas. We would need to rehome both of them. I hope that various local family members will take both of them in, but this is fortunately a problem for another day, way down the line. @CTtoAus thank you so much for your kind words of encouragement. I totally understand what you mean about the pull factors. Wow, there are so many of them. I can't wait. It feels like Christmas, just thinking about it all. My husband is still focused on the push factors, but I am hoping that after a visit, he will understand the Christmas feeling... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skapie Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 KirstenT, I have had the strangest 'pull', as you describe it, to Australia ever since friends of mine emigrated last year May. Since then, I've dwelled on the idea more and more. I couldn't for the life of me explain why I felt the way I did, I simply felt that it was something God put in my path for a reason. I've never known anyone before that has emigrated, I've visited Sydney before, but never thought of moving there. I went from discussing it with my husband, to him getting so mad at me for 'constantly' talking about Australia (he had America in mind, but that wont happen unless we get a Green Card), to him losing a small fortune in shares when the Grinch stole Christmas. (The Grinch being our President...) I think that's when the penny dropped for him. He felt so done in by the fact that he saves as much as he can for his old day, and it being ripped out from under him in one day due to one bad decision on the part of our country's leader. Granted, dabbling in shares comes with its own set of risks, but a calculated risk none the less. I think that is when many of us had tangible evidence that our own President did not have our best interest at heart. Crime has since then really sky rocketed in our little sleepy town in the middle of nowhere, as we all knew it would. They now, together with hurting people and their kids in ways you don't even see in horror movies on TV, steal all your groceries along with your empty wallet and your very old cellphone. We can't sleep at night. For the first time ever, my husband who got so mad at me for always being so 'negative' and 'complaining', draws the blinds in the kitchen at night for fear of being watched. We live on a farm, so never really know what is lurking in the bushes. I constantly check my surrounds when I am in the kitchen in the day. That saying of the frog in the pot, is so true. We are all frogs. Being alert at all times to attempt to be ready when disaster strikes. At any time of the night or day. I've decided I'm switching off my stove at night before I go to bed. I have the most beautiful blond, blue eyed, one year old boy in the world, and we've all seen that video where the criminal describes what he does to your baby when you don't want to hand over your cash. I never have any cash with me, not even coins. I always frustrate the hell out of my husband because of this. If this is not being a frog in a pot, I don't know what is. And it's like one gets so used to it, you can think this in your head and not think it's strange. You think you are clever because you are planning ahead. Well finally the 'skille' have fallen off my eyes. I can see what is going on around me. And I know there is no future here for my kids. None of that 'it will change', 'it will get better'. It wont. I now just have to wait for my husband to commit to the same realization. He is like all the people out there (including myself), that always say they will start exercising and eating more healthy to shed some kilos, while stuffing a chocolate bar in bis face. He knows all the truths, but changing it is hard. And there in lies the Divine Intervention. I know God will do what is necessary for him to finally be persuaded. We are going on a LSD trip in September. I am as excited as a child over Christmas. I can't wait. I pray and trust that this will be the final persuasion he needs. As I live on a farm, I have many animals. Including a pot belly pig that I've yearned for forever and ever. And I've absolutely made peace with the fact that I can not bring any of my 5 cats, my 3 dogs or my one pig over. And I am a HUGE lover of animals. It will simply not be possible. My animals are all oldish, except for the pig, so they'll live out their last days in Africa. I don't want to buy anymore animals, but my husband wants a little dog for my 3 year old to sleap in her bed at night, and two giant dogs as security. He DESPISES dogs in the house. And I don't like big dogs. Ironic, isn't it. We've also not applied for our Visas yet, as he's still so unsure, and doesn't want to be in a position where he has a Visa, and the 5 years activation period becomes an issue. I on the other hand want to get it done as soon as possible, before Oz becomes flooded with SAFFAS, and they don't want us anymore. And I don't mean that in a negative way. I wish I was one of those families who have already had all done and were on their way... Best of luck to you in all your endeavors. And know you are not alone. I think we are the brave ones. As sad as it is... xx 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 @Skapie you and I share so many parallels right now. Thank you for sharing your story. Since you are going over on a tourist visa in September (I presume?), please tell me whether you are also needing to submit unabridged birth certificates for all three of you? I am sure with your little boy this will of course be the case, but I'm wondering about you and your husband. You analogies are spot on. For me the final straw came this past week with the 'incident' that I described in my initial post. It was the straw that broke the camel's back. I have now lost all interest in what is going on in SA (positive or negative). My only interest in relation to SA is in getting out, as harsh as that sounds. I have lost interest in home maintenance repairs/improvements (I love our home and take great pride in making sure that it looks and feels beautiful). Now that all feels like a waste of time because I'm improving it to increase the resale value, in an area that sells itself anyway. It feels like a waste to spend money on a dinner out because why bother? We will need that money far more in Australia. New lamp? What's the point if we need to sell it here anyway? To top off the way I'm feeling, my husband is still stuck in purgatory. He needs to let go of the fact that SA isn't going to take a sharp upturn, and that devastates him. Me? I am ready to get on that plane tomorrow, bags packed. All I need is a lift from the airport on the other side. As a result of all these events, we are even delaying starting a family. I don't want to be in a situation where I need to be x-rayed and can't, as that will hold up the visa process even more. I am already so mad at myself for not having made this happen faster... I feel as if I am living on borrowed time. I am sure that he will get there, as he's accepted that we need to make a move: he's just grieving and isn't sure how or when. Sydney sells itself. During my past two visits (I went to Brisbane, Melbourne, Sydney and Hamilton Island), I was like a Labrador bounding around. I have never felt so free. Sure, it was very expensive, but I was there as a tourist, not earning in the local currency. But this feeling is not something that you can explain to someone, as you described. You need to experience it for yourself. I feel your pain about leaving your dear animals. They are a great part of your life and to move them is costly and potentially very traumatic for them as well. It will break my heart to leave my rabbit (my equivalent of a dog). Please be safe on your farm. Sending lots of good thoughts your way as your husband comes to terms with this new reality.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skapie Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 @KirstenT, It's hard to share one's story. It's so personal. And many times I think, the first time that one actually puts thoughts into words, it is on this forum. My family find it hard to understand my thoughts, sometimes even I find it strange. We are going to see as much of Brisbane, Melbourne and Sydney as we can in two weeks. We're arranging it through a travel agent, as I would much like to focus on the kids and activities for them, as I think that is what is most important for both my husband and I. I will be sure to let you know of the up to date requirements to travel. I'm the exact way with my house. I always feel my house is a reflection of myself. I take much pride in it. I was midway redoing my garden, (or lack thereof) when everything went South last year. We were in the middle of adding a costly addition to our home. And suddenly it's all put into perspective. And I also felt, what's the use? Why bother? We will never be able to really enjoy all the additions, as we never really feel truly safe and at ease. And then I realised, all the material things and luxuries are actually not what life is about at all. if you don't have the freedom to enjoy them. And in a way I'm so glad that I've realised that. We tend to focus so much on what we've accumulated. And in turn what we will have to give up. I find, as I'm sure most parents do, all the feelings and worry multiplies by a 1000 when you have kids. Then you wonder, what will become of them one day? Will they be able to work, to have families of their own? Will my beautiful, blond, blue eyed boy be discriminated against, simply because he is just that? How is that fair on him? He didn't ask to be brought into this world. I think your decision to wait to start a family is a wise one. I've learnt through this process to be silent. To not let the turmoil in my head spill over. To trust in God, and wait for everything to fall in place. And I truly believe it will. Everything happens for a reason. Even if it takes a while. On a lighter note, my daughter's nickname is Lilly Pilly. And last night, while my husband was watching YouTube videos of Qantas flights (quite normal for an aircraft fanatic...), this one video of a flight from Hong Kong to Sydney, showed the detail on a menu. Where they offered Lillypilly dessert wine. I didn't believe my husband when he told me. He had to go search for that video again so he could show me. My mouth was ajar. I said to him, if that's not a sign, I don't know what is... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 @Skapie I can only imagine how the paranoia (or is it paranoia? Sometimes I wonder whether it's not just good sense, given the context) increases ten-fold when you have children in the mix. This is something that concerns me greatly as well. A child cannot determine his environment, and as parents, it is our responsibility to give them the best that we can. Materially we will be poorer off in Sydney, by a long stretch. Everything we have put into our house will be used to buy another house and it will be smaller and less flashy, but what a treat to walk outside and be in a backyard of your own without having to worry about a burglar alarm, noises outside, etc. Priceless. Sometimes I think that I am ageing prematurely here in SA, and I am only turning 29 in a few months. In respect of having a personal story, I can only really say that I feel I am short-changing myself and my husband by remaining here. It's something I feel awkward mentioning to particularly patriotic South Africans, as the accusation is one of being spoiled, unpatriotic and unwilling to sacrifice oneself for one's country. To these same people I can also offer up a few personal anecdotes. In 2012 my husband was mugged while mountain biking in Tokai forest. He escaped unscathed, fortunately, with property and limbs all in one piece. My sister-in-law was involved in a smash-and-grab in Johannesburg in 2014. In early 2015, someone/some people tried to open our garage door in the early morning (I used to go to gym in the mornings: thank God this was not on a day I was going to gym, as the timing matched exactly). Later in 2015, in Durban two men jumped over the high wall of my father's house, held up my brother and our domestic worker with knives (tied them up), stole all the valuables and left. Early this year, in 2016, my uncle was held up at gunpoint at his factory in Johannesburg, but escaped with his life. Ironically he went to Sydney a month later for a holiday to visit our family... do you think he wanted to come back? Not a chance. He is now looking for a way to get over there permanently. And these stories are tame in comparison to others we have all heard/know about. I just speak about the ones that have affected my closest circle. I may also have left out a few 'minor' burglaries and car jamming incidents... I am so pleased you are going to visit a good range of cities. I think we will most likely spend the majority of our time in Sydney, with a few days in Melbourne (this would be a second choice for us, I think). At this point I would like to share a good past time, which makes me feel hopeful and happy: I take a look at real estate in Sydney, click through all the photos, do some bond calculations as if we were going to buy the place, etc. I also check out what some other similar properties sold for in the area. Might seem like a silly exercise, but it gives me something to look forward to. Then when we visit later in the year, we can go and explore all these suburbs. I can't wait Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberJoe Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 (edited) Hi @Skapie. Much like your husband I really had a tough time thinking that another country can be all that different from South Africa. The leaving South Africa bug really bit me when we came back from our holiday to Australia last year but I still required a lot of convincing that it can be a better place. Fortunately, in this modern age, there is a ton of information available. I am only sharing the sites that present the processed information in a fairly easy to read manner, if your husband is the numbers man that he sounds like, I am sure he will dig up all the raw data himself since it is available. http://www.ifitweremyhome.com/compare/ZA/AUhttp://prosperity.com/#!/ http://peoplemov.in/#f_ZAhttp://www.goodcountry.org/overallhttp://www.heritage.org/index/heatmap?cnts=worldhttp://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/ https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/as.html We still have no idea what the future holds for us but from the numbers it seems that if I can make it South Africa, we will do very well in Australia! Hope you guys enjoy your LSD holiday and good luck with the application process!! PS: Check out a @AFreshStart post history. He had a great section on what you should visit and see while in Sydney! I unfortunately could not find it right away. Edited March 14, 2016 by CyberJoe Additional information: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skapie Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 @KirstenT, I'm so sorry to hear about you and your family's misfortune. So sad how most every South African family has some terrible tale to tell. I just don't think it's normal. Or the way one should live their life. @CyberJoe, thank you so much for the information, will most definitely have a read. I think everybody agrees that our country is truly beautiful, and there is nothing quite like it, but it isn't enough anymore. I just want to live my life in peace, and see my kids grow older. In peace. I will definitely look up @AFreshStart's posts, thank you for the advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rozellem Posted March 14, 2016 Report Share Posted March 14, 2016 @Skapie Lilly Pilly is the name of a group of Aussie plants/shrubs. They are a great native that grows like the clappers and takes care of themselves for the most part. A good bunch of plants and I am a big fan. Lilli Pilli (NSW) is a suburb to the south of Sydney, by the Royal National Park. All in all a very good name in Aus. Your daughter is definitely heading to the right country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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