Confused

[HFC]

Hi Everyone

 

It is been a while that we thought of going to Australia. We were 3 years in the UK, and decided to come back to SA. Now 4 years back already and now looking to go over to Oz. With this there is a mix of emotions going through our minds, i am sure most people on this blog can relate to. So let me start, i am a chartered accountant, currently i have a very good job as fd, i find it difficult to progress in my career, due to a variety of factors (economy, bee etc). Our main reason for wanting to go is for a better future for our kids and a more secure lifestyle. I amafraid of starting all over and maybe losing everything that we have built up over the last couple of years. How does the markets look like for ca's in Perth? Our kids is 20months and 6 months old and I am also worrying about crech fees etc. we qualify for a highly skilled visa and niw we need to decide to take the next step. I see two options one is just to go and make the best if the situation or 2 according to our migrant agent we can proceed with the visa, go over for a holiday to activate the visa and still have 4 years to decide if we really want to go over. According to them we can go over just before the visa expire and dint need to renew it once we are there, from there the normal 4 years will be applicable to get citizenship. I am currently 35 years old so we can wait a bit. After over analysing things and lengthy decisions it feels to me to make a decision between our parents/ family or our kids, and that is currently the problem for not taken any steps further. My wife also wants a better future for our kids but also want the kids to grow up with Oupa and Ouma. She agrees that the future in Oz will be much better for our kids. I will appreciate any opinions or views on the same delima.

 

Regards

hfc

[Erik]

Hi hfc

 

If a better life for your children is your motivation then no better time than the present. This visa is going to cost you a LOT of money, so if your not going to follow it through by moving I don't really see the point of starting the process. You can get your PR visa, do the activation and move over within the period that your visa is valid, but if you decide to go just before your visa expires, you will have to get an extension of your PR if you ever wanted to leave the country (for holiday or visit to RSA) after your visa has expired. Getting an extension, you will also have to prove that you have tried to make a life in Aus and deserve to be given an extension.

My kids are growing up without their grandparents (1 and 3 years) and believe me it's not easy and it's not going to ever get better, whether you move now or in 4 years. 

 

You have some big decisions to make, good luck

 

Erik

 

 

[AFreshStart]

HFC,

 

I was a similar age, though our kids were a little older, 3 and 5 years. We moved to Sydney a year ago, because to be honest it's the finance hub of Australia. My wife is a CA in senior management with one of the BIG 4, in audit, where many of the jobs are as audit is universal unlike commerce. I think in general things are not looking all that great for Perth, or WA in general post the mining boom.

 

Starting over is going to mean just that, starting over. It's only when you leave that you see how much the Rand actually buys. what would buy a house in South Africa is a DEPOSIT on a small apartment in Sydney right now, so you're going to feel it. You aren't going to have family support, a network and will be resetting to zero, which is both a blessing and a curse.

 

Personally I'd move sooner rather than later! We left over a year ago and cashed out at R9.70 to the Australian Dollar, quick check today shows R11.50, what's that going to look like in 2-3 years?

 

To be honest you probably won't be able to afford daycare for two small children and your wife will probably have to stay home with them until they are both of school going age, unless you are both going to work full-time to afford childcare costs.

 

It's tough, but rewarding. We have a FAR better quality of life in the way of safety, security and general well-being than we ever had in South Africa. We have fewer material possessions, but once you experience this freedom all that stuff pales in comparison.

 

You'll miss friends, family and for some it's harder than others, but we had to take the long view for our family and the truth is our children have FAR more opportunities here than they do in South Africa. They have access to FREE public education, when/if they want to study at University they have access to funds through VET-HELP, when they become citizens they will have access to over 14-countries that Australia has a work-abroad agreement with.

 

Starting over here is hard, but when they graduate and if they decide to move on we'd have build up our savings in dollars and would have resources to follow them. Ask yourself this, if you stay and their isn't opportunity for them and they decide to leave (that's even if they will be able to in 15-20 years time) would you be able to follow them? What would the Rand look like then?

 

It's not an easy choice, making it is a start, the hard work is going to come following through with it.

 

Cheers

 

Matt 

 

[LeonH]

Hi HFC,

 

We are in the midst of the visa application process, with a 16-month-old and another on the way. Like you, one of our greatest concerns is separating our kids from their grandparents. My dad even remarked over Christmas dinner that we were "abandoning them" - not entirely supportive, but accurate I suppose.

 

The way I am telling myself to see this is that one generation of my family is GOING to leave - if it's not mine then it will be my kids (I would want them to leave). As brutal as it sounds, it may come down to choosing between your parents or your children and there is no way that it will be easy. We will have to live with the consequences of our decision, but my view is that as parents it is our job to "pay it forward" to the next generation, our children's.

 

I am going to work hard and live modestly over in Aus (like I try to do here), so that we can afford visit SA regularly or fly the grandparents over for lengthy holidays.

 

All the best with your dilemma!

[Alchemist]

We are also leaving the grandparents behind, but they made their decision to stay in the 80s when they almost left for Oz, and now we need to make ours for my daughters sake. Its not about our parents anymore, its about our child. My brother and most of my cousins are overseas, its a very normal thing in some cultures in SA.....dont let it dissuade you. Dont dither on applying for your PR. The occupations can suddenly dissapear as much as they can appear and when yours is on the list, hit it while its still hot!

[HFC]

Thank you all for the responses. I really appreciate it. It is much easier to talk to people that were in the same position as me, most people here, family included are not very supportive which doesn't make it easier. In my view it is also better to make the move asap instead of waiting, because 4 years down the line you would have most probably settled already in Oz instead of starting over anyways. Now I need to convince my wife! Can anyone give me an indication to daycare fees? My  other biggest fear is that our children will most probably also leave the country in a few years, and we might be left behind. Busy doing some budgets and need to know how much money do you think one needs to take over to make provision for rent, food etc until you get a job, lets say for 4-6 months hioefully that is worst case scenario. I would probably go over alone until I have a job before my wife and kids come over.

 

Thank you again for the advise and information.

[SML]

Hi HFC,

 

My husband & I met in London and we then moved back to SA(both South Africans) as we didn't want to have kids in the UK. We then realised that for the our future, kids and ours, we should move to Oz. My folks were devastated and really made me feel awful for abandoning them. But, now, they miss us but are so glad that we made the move. Perth is lovely but jobs are few and far between. I'm not a CA but our neighbour is and he is in a job that isn't what he wants to do but there is nothing else here at the moment. 

We don't regret leaving SA for the second time. We are glad we went back from UK but we couldn't live with the anxiety anymore. 

 

Good luck! 

 

[RYLC]

Hearing these stories of parents who lay on the guilt trip make me so grateful that my late mother sent us with her blessing even though she was ill with cancer.  She wrote us the most amazing letter about "soaring on eagles wings" and making a new life for ourselves.  I know that it was killing her to see me go as I was her rock but she did it with such grace and love.  I'm forever grateful.

[Sweepea]

theres no time like the present as the others said above. have you calculated your points yet? Big diff of 10 points depending on your English language ability but best to aim high and rewrite a few times if necessary. Accountants with points under 70 have not been invited for a while. unfortunately that stopped about a month before we had all our docs and assessment in order. So tho I had submitted an EOI for the 189, I then did one for NSW too which gives you extra 5 points but you only need 55 is my understanding for the NSW 190. We could have got hubbys skills assessed to get the extra 5 points but that would have taken a couple months so just decided to go ahead with the 190. We are hoping to get an approval once PCCs are in.

 

We didn't tell hubbys mother anything as she will lay on the guilt trip from now. His father knows and is supportive. My parents passed away but even when we were growing up, my dad used to tell us to go overseas. In our case the grandparents don't play a big role in our toddlers' lives so no great loss there unlike the rest of you.

 

[DXB2OZ]

My mother was actually the one who started as looking at Oz in the first place. She misses us dreadfully but has always supported the move 110%. As she is the only Grandparent, that did make things easier.

 

All of the statements above are so true. Negatives - you will be stepping backwards, both financially and in your career, particularly in finance. However, once you have acquired that illustrious local experience and "earned your stripes" then it won't be too long before you catch up. You will be on your own without family and friends (in most instances) and that can be rough, especially in the early days.

 

Positives - our family quality of life is really very good and we have enjoyed so many of the little pleasures together. As I am about to have two teenagers, being able to be a strong family unit is something you cannot put a price on. And this forum becomes your support network in ways you wouldn't believe possible. We sometimes squabble and differ in opinions, but we are full of news, views and info and make a fantastic cheerleading squad.

 

further upside - when you are cleaning ithe house yourself, smaller can often be better ?

[BriD]

There are a few things that you must accept - your lifestyle WILL change. You will take a couple of steps backwards financially in the beginning and maybe for a long time. However, what you gain immediately is freedom, less anxiety, a beautiful friendly welcoming country with opportunity for your children and yourselves. Less Material possessions, smaller houses, a simpler life...makes people scared about whether they are ready for that....however, it is the greatest blessing. We had a huge house in South Africa, fancy cars, very comfortable life there. We now live in a Townhouse, our cars are not fancy but get us from A to B safely, we have to be careful with our money. BUT I would not change it for the world...and I could go on about all the opportunities that my children have here. However, I have gained so much too by coming here. The freedom and safety to walk with my children in the national parks...sometimes never meeting another person on the walks. Taking them to isolated beaches...spending time in the outdoors without being on high alert. I LOVE the life we have here. I also started studying again and have completely changed my career course now...and I love that. It is like when you come to Australia you start a whole new blank slate and you can do ANYTHING...you can write a new story. It is very liberating!

 

The material stuff...it means nothing when you are anxious and worried all the time. The change in my daughter since we moved to Aus has been huge...from an anxious clingy little 5 year old to an outgoing chatty independent little 7 year old...family that comes to visit remarks on the change in her the most. You underestimate the intensity of the anxiety you live with everyday in South Africa. Such a pity...such a beautiful country with such terrible problems.

 

We had different reactions from different people. My parents were sad, but very supportive and understanding and have continued to be. My husband's parents initially did not believe the seriousness of our intentions when we started the VISA process ( we told everyone every single thing that happened from the beginning...so no surprises ) and when they realised how serious we were - when we set a date to leave - then they became very upset and angry. However, they have been to Australia twice now since we moved and now fully support our decision. In fact my husband's siblings are both in the process of starting VISA applications. Amazing how one can become a pioneer for their once unwilling family.

 

The sacrifice is the lack of family in Australia...yes, the kids will not have their grandparents as part of their daily lives. It is a sad reality of immigration. No doubt about that. But coming to Australia is looking into the Future and looking out for the future of the youngest generation. It is our duty as parents to give the children the best chance possible...and if you feel that is in Australia...then you need to do what is best for the children.

 

Waiting...only delays the inevitable. 4 years down the line...you will be older...and you will still be starting from scratch. Once a decision has been made best to "rip off the plaster" and get on with it as soon as possible. Also Accountants have been flagged on the Skilled list for a couple of years now...I think time is ticking, if the skill drops off the list that will be a big blow. Get in while you still can if this is something you really want to do.

 

One thing though...you and your partner really need to be on the same page. Dragging an unwilling partner along is bound to cause endless problems. Immigration is VERY stressful and you need to have each other's back and be there to pick each other up when the going gets tough. An unwilling partner will become a resentful partner. You need to be on the same page. Perhaps a LSD (Look See Decide) trip would be good to help her visualise what life could be like in Australia.

 

All the best with your decision.

Bri

[HFC]

Thank you for all the usefull information and motivation. It makes sense to do a lsd first and maybe see some recruiters in between. Can one study and qualify for government allowance on a 189 visa? My wife is consedering studying if she needs to stay at home to look after the kids until they are ready for school, 3-4 years from now. And will you be paying international student fees or the 'reduced' resident fees?

 

[rozellem]

The 189 visa is a Permanent Resident visa.  So, you are just short of being a citizen.  On a PR, you cant vote, cant get a passport and cant get a state "student loan".  There might be something else insignificant, but the three I mentioned are the biggies.  So, she can study and pay as much as a local, but the will have to pay in the year when she is studying, not like the citizens, much, much later in their careers.  Good news, if you ask me. 

[Leavingforgood]

Hi @HFC - Also a CA with two young kids and took the plunge, arrived three weeks ago. Currently applying for jobs with minimal prospects (in Perth) but that was to be expected as I have been told accounting jobs are scarce on this side of the outback. There are a lot of advertised positions for auditors/ tax accountants but the prerequisite is the local experience. My advice to you is start the application, save up and come over....perhaps better on the East coast. Its easier to "restart" a career at an earlier age, and there were rumbles and jumbles last year that accountants were being removed from the SOL list (not sure whether this will happen anytime soon as there has always been rumours). Also my husband left before I did (three months), and it was a good decision so that he can settle in before the family arrives, but I don't think it would have been good for either of us if the separation period was longer ;).

 

Good luck with your decision, definitely not an easy one.