Divorce

[Koen]

I am not sure where to post this question, but as it seems to be all part of settling in, I thought this would be a good place.

I gather with all emigration that the stress from the upheaval and the distance from loved ones etc is going to mean a relatively high divorce rate in the emigrating population. So I am hoping to find people who have been through it all.

I am needing some advice for a loved one who is in a similar predicament in Australia and who is finding it all very difficult to cope with.

What is the general feeling towards the woman in divorce there? Are they well represented, or do the males generally come out better? I suppose what I am asking is, is society still geared towards the male there or not. And is this regional as in some places favour the woman and others the male i.e. how homogenous are the courts in dealings with divorce across Australia?

And secondly is there such a thing as legal aid? And what kind of reputation, if it exists, does it have? Ideally I would love to hear from someone who has been through this all, preferably a womans side to the dealings with the courts in Australia, and what to expect and what not to expect.

Lastly are there any organisations that are primarily set up to safe guard the interests of woman in proceedings of these kinds, even womans action groups whatever?

Please do not respond at all, if all you are after is an argument. I am genuinely trying to help someone here and would appreciate some form of consideration.

Koen

Edited April 26, 2007 by Koen

[matman]

hi Koen

have a look at this previous posting

Another good option is always to do a search on Australia Google

I searched on Divorce and got a few good hits like

LegalAdvice

Divorce Advice - Free Support Group

Family Law Courts - Separation and Divorce in Australia

There were plenty more hits

Rgds

matman

Edited April 26, 2007 by matman

[Spider]

Hi Koen,

I don't have any answers, but wanted to say that i hope whatever happens your friend is ok as i can imagine it cannot be easy...good luck

[Koen]

Thanks matman and Chandi, sadly it is not all all right, and I am desperate to help, but being so far away is making me also feel so bad.

One big problem is that the husband has hidden his assets and savings etc in South Africa and all in a big hurry, so although extremely wealthy is getting away with murder. This is a very complicated problem, and she feels so alone, newly arrived and no friends or family, it is a very horrible situation to be in.

Thank-you for the google sites, I will do some reading tonight. The problem is when you are faced with emotional things like this you have so much to think about and so much sadness that it is difficult to get yourself into gear and take action. She has been relying on some very shady lawyers who seem to be totally in it for the cash and keep making deals behind her back with the other lawyer defending her husband. And demanding huge retainers from her before they will do anything, even threatening to dump the case entirely. Every thing to my mind reeks of mall practise. The judge in the interim court hearing totally took the husbands side without even her lawyers objecting once or appealing afterwards. Obviously I cannot give details but believe me he was very wrong to be doing this.

Needless to say divorces are messy any where on the globe and I wont be hanging out any dirty linen, but it would be so nice if there were someone who had been through it all and survived, who could give me some trails to follow up for her.

Thanks again for the information,

Koen

[Spider]

Hi Koen,

Yip, divorce is ugly!

My mom is still here in SA but is an attorney but did some work in Australia as well so i will gladly contact her and find out who or what she knows as she is a person who hates people as deceitful as those you mention...

[Enrica]

Koen

She must get her self a good divorce lawyer quick smart. Women in general are treated very fairly. Basically

50% of all the assests/monies and superfunds etc. If there are children involved an extra percentage over and above the 50% per child.

If she has proof of the hidden assests and she has a smart lawyer he will not get away with less that what she is legally entitled to. Worst case senario her lawyer would recommend that a forensic lawyer/account be brought in to find the hidden assests. This can be expensive and very time consuming, very draining both physically and emotionally.

This is why he has tried to hide his assests.

Even if she has an ANTI-NUPTIAL AGREEMENT in SA , that does not apply here.

By law they must be separated for 12 months before a divorce is granted. In those 12 months basically they need to sort out the settlement and maintenance for the kids.

If he is threatenning her and or the kids in anyway she needs to get a VRO ( Violence Restraining Order).

If your friend does not have money for a lawyer , she can go to legal aid.

Also she can get assistance from Centre Link if she has kids. (single Mothers Allowance) she can go in and see them.

As far as I understand this is the procedure but I am not a lawyer, so this all needs to be verified.

[Koen]

Yea Enrica that is what she thought she had done? Gotten herself a good divorce lawyer, but obviously the selection where she is living is limited, possibly, I don't know. i would have also assumed a 50% split even if they cannot track down his assets and bank accounts, which they are claiming they cannot do without mega amounts of cash, his present salary would have had had to do, and would have been more than sufficient in this case. But the judge due to lack of suitable and strong defence came down favouring the husband, in a grossly unfair manner. Is why I asked my original questions here.

She did indeed already have to get a VRO and he is not allowed anywhere near her. The first thing he did was take both cars and all the household appliances and stop paying the kids university fees and trash their home. Even this seemingly violet and irrational behaviour was not obviously used in her defence at the first hearing.

She has no link or record or proof of any of his assets and accounts, they sold up everything when they left, but he has apparently very recently on one of his trips back bought two houses in SA but this is through the grape vine and unsubstantiated, his family are living in them now apparently. He has even left the country twice and this is substantiated despite a court order that he may not leave Australia at all. And her lawyers did nothing, I would assume there should have been some sort of penalty at the very least. But nothing.

The present home she is in is a new purchase and they didn't even award her him paying the mortgage, which would mean she will not even have a roof over her head. I am hoping 'legal aid" can do something at this stage I have now discovered there is such a thing, I have no idea what kind of reputation they have but it better than nothing. She will be contacting them today.

Thanks Chandi for your offer but I think it would be less use right now for her in Australia perhaps. I have to be very careful what I say here so cannot discuss the case any further in as much detail as I have already done. But when it is over you can bet your bottom dollar I am going to make it very plain who the legal firm is that has been shafting her so badly, and splash it far and wide, for a very important service to other woman who might find themselves in the same situation.

Regards

Koen

[Enrica]

Koen

Quiet a few of my friends have been in the same situation as you touched on. It appears that she has been hard done by, which is strange as the legal system with regards to divorce and family courts etc seem to work extremly well. She needs to get a new representation. The sooner the better.

Violence is not looked upon at all favourably by the courts here ...... he has a responsablity with regards the children and maintenance for the kids, which once again in the experience of my friends has apperaed to work fairly in Australia.

Even with regards to money that has been moved off shore, certain people I know , their lawyers have done right by them.You do not mention what state she lives in.....so rather difficult to offer any assistance.

[Koen]

Enrica, I am afraid I cannot mention the state, the town is about as big as PMB I gather and I have never been that far from Melbourne, but I assume it is a bit of a back water, though she loves it there, so I don't want to be too disparaging. Any way with a town like that I could get into trouble, its a small world.

The kids have finished school and are now doing part time to help, as well as trying to finish uni. I don't think she would get maintenance for them in fact she can't, and hasn't even tried. All she really needs is the house and enough to get her back into the job market as long as this can take. I would think and expect more, but there it is. The husband has always suffered from bipolar, and oops that is about all I can say, but she did not want him as a professional to loose his job through this sorry mess. What an idiot he cant even see she is still protecting him even though he is such a dolt. It is a bit of a catch 22 in this respect as well.

There I lost my cool.

K

[Bob]

There are two sides to every argument, so without wishing to take sides, all I can offer are facts pertaining a divorce.

The wife has the right to 50% of all assets built up since they have been married and any she brought into the marriage that she can prove was hers intitially.

The "bread winner" must support any dependent children . . and that includes kids in full-time University up to the age of 25 . . . and provide a roof over their heads.

This means that the "family home" cannot be sold from under the custodial parent until the kids are no longer classified "dependent" at which time the home can be sold and the proceeds split up between husband and wife.

In the meantime, the mortgage still needs to be paid on the family home.

The supporting parent must pay up-keep to the custodial parent for any dependent children in the marriage.

The supporting parent gets the initial first $8 000 of income to him or herself, after which they pay an extra 18% (for one kid), 28% (for two kids), etc. over and above their income tax to go to the Australian Tax Office (A.T.O.) for handing on to the custodial parent.

This takes about 6 weeks, so any change in income will reflect events occuring in the supporting parent of six weeks previously.

Any superannuation accumulated must also be split between the husband and wife since married. this can amount to thousands of $$, if not tens of thousands built up in a person's working lifetime. In my case, my super was hundreds of thousands of dollars if I had divorced my good wife.

Anyone can see that divorce is not the cheapest option to take.

In my time, I've seen women impoverished and men forced to work years after their "retirement" age to make up for what has been lost to them in divorce.

Divorce has to be seen, when all the chaff is blown away and reality is faced, as one of the most costly occurences in any person's life, not just emotionally, but financially.

It seems only lawyers get wealthy out of this, as Supreme Court cases cost thousands of dollars a day in representing their respective clients.

The husband and wife won't be winners.

If there is another way . . . counselling, mediation, whatever . . . . you'd be wise to tell your mate about it.

[Koen]

Thanks Bob, they don't have any dependant children anymore. No marriage guidance is not an option at this stage, that was tried in South Africa along with other therapies many times. Obviously you do not know the details of the relationship but believe me divorce is the best option, no matter what she manages to get as way of compensation for years of misery, she will come out better off without him.

It is in fact the wife filing for divorce. This might be what is causing the system to operate on a reverse discrimination basis. The husband has kept the family on a shoe string their entire married life and also has not allowed her to work. However now in Australia she felt safer and decided finally to get a divorce, though the support network to my mind is failing her horribly. Hence my post.

I don't get this 50l50 split thing because that is certainly not the case here, she has decided to file a complaint against her legal representative for mall practise anyway, so we will see how this turns out.

Thanks for your input

[Enrica]

Moral of the story, if you marriage is in trouble- DON'T EMMIGRATE.

Immigration makes a good marriage bad and a bad marriage BUST !!!

Seen it happen over and over.

Edited May 2, 2007 by enrica

[Koen]

I tend to agree with that Enrica, but it all depends. A marriage if it is going to bust is going to bust where ever you are. Staying at home and living a bad marriage out is also not a healthy idea.

Like so many people I have heard from here, and elsewhere, they say and think they are doing it for the children, the whole emigration bit. Is it a good enough reason? Maybe, but don't think you are running away from your problems, they stay with you, and in many cases can only get worse, especially as you no longer have your support network around you, your family and your friends. The same would apply to anybody who has financial difficulties, Australia is not going to suddenly become a bed of roses, it is expensive just getting there, and it can take a long long time to re-establish yourself, and in many cases if you failed at home the chances are you will also fail in Australia or any where else, unless you can clearly see why you failed and try and correct this with a change in your approach.

I think in general I have huge admiration for people who do take the plunge, for what ever reason, it is a very brave thing to do, sadly not many understand the full consequences until much later. Like in a divorce situation, then you suddenly need all the things you left behind, the things that take years and sometimes lifetimes to put into place.

[CapeTown]

I agree entirely with what Koen has said. I am speaking from personal experience.

I went over to work in Atlanta on contract, and the wife came with.Things were not all wine and roses when we left Cape Town,(nowhere near a divorce) and the thought of new surroundings made the wife excited to go.

Not long in Atlanta,the wheels fell off big time with my marriage,as suddenly we were 100% dependant on each other.

Moral of the story is we flew back to Cape Town to get divorced.You do NOT want to get divorced without friends and family in close support.

[DesV]

There is a saying in Australia

"Australian Women are good housekeepers"

Thats because they keep the house, From my understanding Women especially if there are kids involved get the upper hand in australia.

[Koen]

I agree entirely with what Koen has said. I am speaking from personal experience.

I went over to work in Atlanta on contract, and the wife came with.Things were not all wine and roses when we left Cape Town,(nowhere near a divorce) and the thought of new surroundings made the wife excited to go.

Not long in Atlanta,the wheels fell off big time with my marriage,as suddenly we were 100% dependant on each other.

Moral of the story is we flew back to Cape Town to get divorced.You do NOT want to get divorced without friends and family in close support.

Ya, "Cape-Town" it can be truly soul destroying for those involved, I would liken it from hearing about this whole experience to being on par with loosing a loved one through death. And then still no support, truly truly not for the faint hearted.

I feel so inadequate being here,now in Pretoria, there is just so little I can do. Everything is delayed a day at a time, so even your best efforts are not very timely. I am planning a visit, but this is quite difficult for me at this moment. But I do want to let anyone know that if they have a close friend, relative going through this, don't be put off by the stilted communications and time differences, just get on that phone, believe me its appreciated.

E-mails are fine but lack the true understanding and feeling you get from a direct conversation, and they are also open to misinterpretation, quite badly so, and that is the last thing you want.

Koen