Is now the right time to Immigrate?

[Kanniewagnie]

We started to adjust our lifestyle in South Africa (we are not in Oz yet), to see if we'll be able to 'cope'. We sold the house, moved into a tiny (understatement) 2 & 1/2 bedroom, 1 bathroom, are without a 'helper' & gardener, I resigned to be with the kids full-time, we sold a lot of furniture (not easy to let go of expensive hard-worked-for stuff that sells for next to nothing), this week sold the 1 car (tomorrow we have to go look for a cheep tjor to drive kids 3 km to and from school... (Eeeek!)

As far as we are in the process, and as much money we've spend / 'lost' to get to this point, we still wonder... What if we just carry on in SA? What if we move, our savings dry up before we find employment ( we can take enough to last about 6 months ). You know, it is pension money gone, lost forever. And then we have to start saving from scratch. We never earned above average salaries, so we do not have much of a buffer between now and employment.

But then I think to myself: OK if we stay, by the time we retire, what will our pension money be worth any way?

It remains a leap of faith. A question without a correct answer.

I'd say if you are still healthy, have energy and enthusiasm to make it work, your kids are still small, go for it.

Now that we 'feel' the loss of our big house, helpers, nanny, let go of our fully paid off dream car, we realise a tiny bit of the enormous sacrifices still to be made. We are not there yet, but we've come so far... and I just pray for wisdom.

[monsta]

I was slow in following this advice but I try hard to do so now and I do see a difference. It takes a lot of time but if you start on this while still in SA you will be in a better position to rebuild your career on arriving.

Agreed. You need to understand that Australia "pays its way in the world" mostly through mining, tourism and educating foreign students.

What most people don't realize is, this means that Australia isn't trying to make the best cell phone in the world, they are not trying to make the best movies in the world, etc.. Most companies in Australia are thinking exclusively about the Australian market.

The issue is the Australian market is only big enough for two or three big players in each area. For example, Woolies and Coles control 80% of the grocery market.

Woolies takes kids straight out of school. They pay them crap and force them to compete hard for each promotion. For example, there are say 16 store managers in the region, but only one regional manager. That forces the 16 store managers to work extra hours, network, etc... to get the promotion to regional manager.

Now, if you move to Australia and claim you were a regional manager for a Pick 'N Pay, they will never give you the regional manager job here... Woolies already have a queue of employees competing for the job (which is what they want).

Cheers

[Johnno]

We started to adjust our lifestyle in South Africa (we are not in Oz yet), to see if we'll be able to 'cope'. We sold the house, moved into a tiny (understatement) 2 & 1/2 bedroom, 1 bathroom, are without a 'helper' & gardener, I resigned to be with the kids full-time, we sold a lot of furniture (not easy to let go of expensive hard-worked-for stuff that sells for next to nothing), this week sold the 1 car (tomorrow we have to go look for a cheep tjor to drive kids 3 km to and from school... (Eeeek!)

As far as we are in the process, and as much money we've spend / 'lost' to get to this point, we still wonder... What if we just carry on in SA? What if we move, our savings dry up before we find employment ( we can take enough to last about 6 months ). You know, it is pension money gone, lost forever. And then we have to start saving from scratch. We never earned above average salaries, so we do not have much of a buffer between now and employment.

But then I think to myself: OK if we stay, by the time we retire, what will our pension money be worth any way?

It remains a leap of faith. A question without a correct answer.

I'd say if you are still healthy, have energy and enthusiasm to make it work, your kids are still small, go for it.

Now that we 'feel' the loss of our big house, helpers, nanny, let go of our fully paid off dream car, we realise a tiny bit of the enormous sacrifices still to be made. We are not there yet, but we've come so far... and I just pray for wisdom.

Good idea to start preparing but here's an idea. In order to properly prepare yourself, every time you buy something in SA, like a cup of coffee, times it by 3 or 4 and then stick the difference in a savings account. After a year you will have enough to live in SA without any money shortages

We just popped out for a quick bite at the local sports bar / tavern, wife, daughter and myself. We were in a bit of a hurry so no messing around. I had a T-Bone steak and chips, wife had warmed lamb salad and daughter had calamari. All 3 meals were delicious but no starters, no drinks and no deserts, Total = $77.00!

[Jody]

Folks

We never contribute on here anymore, but I just couldn’t help myself. We left RSA 3 years ago; we were in a TOTAL different position than most of you on here.

We were both in the Defence Force with 20 years service….and financially we were going down fast! My husband had to do a deployment to pay our children’s school fees; they were only in Public schools.

We had to borrow money to pay our visa. We did the application ourselves.

When we eventually got our visa, we were unable to leave due to our financial position. I prayed day and night. I became so depressed and obsessed to leave.

I knew we had to get out of Africa, as the Defence was so unbearable. I started sending my husband’s CV out……..I applied for about 20 positions before work every day.

We got our visa in February and in April they rang him for an interview. God is big!

He managed to get a job in a mining giant. They paid for our move (our dogs included) and flew us over in Business class, we were greeted on arrival in AUS and booked into the Hilton Hotel…..sounds like a fairy tale…not the end yet.

I was invited for a telephone interview and walked into a job on arrival. It was just an admin position in the local hospital, but today 3 years later, I have managed to climb the ladder. I hold a Level 9 position in Public Health.

I fly to remote Indigenous Communities in AUS with a charter as part of my job. Every time I go out I realize just how big, unique and awesome AUS really is. Now I am slowly working my way to medical scool, and I am able to pay for my own studies without having to apply for a study loan. Love my life in AUS.

My husband and I almost earn $300K together and we are not looking back. We have no debt, have absolutely all the cars and electronics we ever wanted…travel the world.

This is our fairytale, we pinch each other everyday as we still do not believe it, for us AUS is the lucky country……literary. We also had a couple of good wins with the lotto…For us it does not get any better than this!

[Kanniewagnie]

Wow, this is definitely not the norm, but I do envy you!! We looked for a 'tjor' today and realised that a 'tjor' costs nothing less than R80 000,00' and then it is just the same if we have to sell the 'tjor' or if we have to sell our car - loose we'll loose anyway, so, we cancelled the sale of our car and at least we can enjoy our Tiguan for another 4 - 5 months...

We also decided that hubby will go over end Jan 2015 alone, because accommodation for 1 is more affordable. Then we'll follow as soon as he found employment.

I'm a bit scared to be alone with the kids, because I'll have to then wrap up things by myself, (arrange moving company, sell cars, give rental notice, pack our last things for the flight) while I'm used to having my 'maatjie' to help with tough decisions.

Oh dear, I'll have to start a list of things to be done.

[Bronwyn&Co]

What a great post Jody. Well done to you guys

[monsta]

Wow, this is definitely not the norm

Yep, unfortunately that's too true... But its a good reminder to people that its not about having a fancy degree... its more about

1) Having a unique skill. I'll bet Jody's husband got some experience in the RSA military that would be hard to get in the Aus military.

2) Being willing to do whatever job you get. Then working your way up slowly. Don't think you will come over as the big boss.

3) Moving to the parts of Aus where your skills will be in demand.

Cheers

[SurferMan]

I'm glad I'm not the big boss but just a very senior resource with special skills. I got over the big titles things years ago. All I do now is keep my skills at the front of the hump and employment prospects are as good as they can be. Well done on the wicked income.

[Eyebrow]

I am starting from scratch.

Very scared.

I actually have to retrain.

So I come over on a temporary visa and retrain. With people half my age.

Will be interesting!

[Sunnyskies]

Eyebrow, I had to retrain. I hadn't studied for over 10 years. I freaked out each time I wrote an exam thinking I had failed as the trite content of my answers was so alien to how I work. Got fantastic results. I concluded that age and experience had actually helped me learn the work in a more holistic way and that I probably worked more effectively than when I was young as I worked full time at the same time and had a big project on as well. You will be absolutely fine.

[Gerhardk]

Hi Theunis,

We are two CAs that walked away from a very comfortable lifestyle. My parents could not understand it since they argued we can afford the best schools and best neighbourhoods and more or less buy what we want when we want. We were not rich but really comfortable in a security estate (outside Centurion) with a private school and a shopping centre. Problem is you have to go out of the estate.

We took massive drops in salary and comfort - would say at least 10 years. One of the reasons is that there are so many accountants and not so difficult to become a CA and many employees in big 4 not even CAs. Also I found that English as a second language does provide a hurdle as opposed to someone from UK. Now we live in an average neighbourhood and have one car. Kids are in a private school.

But there is no way we will go back. Even with all the sacrifices, the quality of life for us and the future for our kids and for us when we retire, just cannot compare. Also on a world wide basis, earning ZAR you become poorer quickly and we did not realise it.

It all depends on what you want. Arguably the best for you may be to start your own practise (or buy one) here but the hours will be longer since there is a lot of things to learn. By way of example, I completed quite a lot of tax conversion courses (cost a fortune) and Commercial Law before starting a practise.

You are welcome to PM me if you have specific questions.

[JuliaClaire]

Theunis

This is a question I ask myself everyday. Our PR visa expires in 2016. Do we make the move or do we let it lapse? We have 3 kids age 11,9, and 4.

My husband is 50. He is highly qualified in the marine sciences and has a great job here in SA which he loves. He has applied for lots of jobs (most below his level of expertise) in OZ with no luck. As each day goes by, the thought of taking up our PR visa grows dimmer and dimmer.

I can't help but feel perhaps we have missed the boat. The economy in oz seemed so much better back when we applied for visa - 2007.

[Theunis]

JuliaClaire

After reading your post I immediately had so much advise for you and motivation to just go for it and then I realized that it's so much easier giving advice than actually taking it. Lately I have sort of been looking for reasons not to go and then I read News24 or I see dirt everywhere or go to home affairs then I am reminded. I'm supposed to go do my police clearance and I have been dragging my heels and telling myself that I don't have time but the truth is that I can't get myself to go to the police station because I know how unfriendly and unhelpful they can be so I am dreading it and avoiding it. Anyway what ever you decide to do I hope that things will work out the way you want it to.

[Bronwyn&Co]

Theunis

This is a question I ask myself everyday. Our PR visa expires in 2016. Do we make the move or do we let it lapse? We have 3 kids age 11,9, and 4.

My husband is 50. He is highly qualified in the marine sciences and has a great job here in SA which he loves. He has applied for lots of jobs (most below his level of expertise) in OZ with no luck. As each day goes by, the thought of taking up our PR visa grows dimmer and dimmer.

I can't help but feel perhaps we have missed the boat. The economy in oz seemed so much better back when we applied for visa - 2007.

Julia I wouldn't give up a PR visa easily. It it very hard to get and your children are still a reasonable age to cope with the move & thrive. It's not the easiest decision but truthfully your husband's chances are slim from in SA (not really because of his age, more about the distance).

If I were him I'd target a few choice places to work, network extensively and then try & book a few meetings. He could fly in for a good look around (even between states). I know it's not cheap but you owe it to yourselves to make sure one way or another.

If he finds something awesome your problem is solved. If he finds there is really nothing (doubtful) at least you won't always wonder 'what if'.

I'd come for 2-3 weeks but make good use of the time? B

Edited August 24, 2014 by Bronwyn&Co

[SurferMan]

If you let that PR lapse you will have almost no chance of getting into Aus....I'm with Gerhardk on this one. I was pulling six figures a month on my own in SA, but you gotta leave the nest to forage..and even at home you're not safe. I too took a huge drop when I came here. I have now doubled my best income I ever made in SA and I work 40 hours a week. Just to be clear, this is by Gods grace, not by my hand. I guess I'm trying to support Gerhard and say it is possible to get up there, you need to work at it. It's not different to having a business in SA and being wiped out and having to start again. At least here you don't have to give away your business to some jumped up BEE dude and watch it tank.

By the way, I can vouch for GerhardK, good bloke!!!

[JuliaClaire]

Just to add ....

A while ago I wrote on this forum about the turmoil of having a PR visa! I say the turmoil, because rather than seeing it as a much prized ticket to freedom, it's become this ticking time bomb that I don't want to lose, but don't want to use if it's going to propel us into a life of hardship, stress, job insecurity homesickness etc etc.

We applied for our VISA in 2007. At this point the economy seemed good in AUS, my brother and fam were applying for one, my husband's family had all already made the move to Perth. We lived in Swakopmund Namibia, which to me is just a bigger version of Perth (without the quirky German influence).

Then we moved to the green hills of KZN. My husband started a new job. We moved next door to my mom and dad. My brother and fam decided to let their PR lapse. They chose South Africa. They have never looked back. Our PR visa came through 5 months later Bad timing!

Anyway, I wrote on the forum and mentioned that life in SA was actually quite lovely. Yes, we put up with an enormous amount of rubbish and there are atrocious indecencies going on. But I felt there were plenty of positive too.

I didn't expect some of the responses. Some were laced with anger. Along the lines of:

How could you possibly think SA offers anything better than AUS? What an insult to all of us who have made the move. How could you be so blasé about having a PR visa when others are so desperately trying to get one?

Suffice to say, it left me feeling bad and I was too afraid to write on the forum again...

It's always heartening to see people's success stories. But it's also reassuring to know that some do wonder if it's the right time to immigrate, some don't like Aus and some suggest staying put in SA. They are brave enough to say it. THANK YOU.

[SurferMan]

Hi Julia,

Its not for everyone (emigration), and its also not to say you lack spine if you don't follow through. What is a common theme is perhaps anger and some resentment from people desperate to get to Aus and reading about lapsed visas. Personally I struggle to grasp how someone will go through all that effort to be granted a PR visa, and then not take it up. But hey, that's me. I would give my nads for that piece of paper. Thing is, PR gives you options, without it, you have SA. Finish and klaar in the words of Mr. Selebi. I don't think you will be hammered too hard here.

Just for info, in case you don't know, if your PR lapses, you have zero chance of getting another one from DIBP. I hail from the lush shores of St. Lucia so know all about green hills and big blue oceans....

Cheers

Surferman

[Minks]

The decision to immigrate is such a personal choice, based on what YOU feel is the best decision for your family at a certain stage in your life.

I do get frustrated with people who have applied and received their visas and then sit on the fence wondering if taking the "final step" is the right thing to do - and the frustration is aimed mainly at the fact that there are SO many people and families who would have been given the opportunity to make that move had there not been undecided persons applying. Do I judge you because of it? Not at all.

I believe that sometimes those waiting for extended periods (like ourselves) is the divine intervention of the greater being... Had our initial visa been granted back in 2007 / 2008 we may well have been one of those people who would have had to consider whether uprooting and leaving behind all we knew, had achieved etc would be worth it. I can tell you with complete honesty that I doubt my husband would have made the move - he just wasn't ready. We had gone through the motions and he was basically just humoring me.

6 years down the line ( older and having spent WAY more money) we are applying for a different visa with the intent of leaving as soon as we get that golden ticket!

Life in Aus won't be easier and, as mentioned previously in posts, we will more than likely have to take a major step back in earnings, job titles, house, vehicles etc in the beginning... But we are going for the lifestyle and to be able to afford our children the opportunities that they will probably not be offered in South Africa.

Do we dislike South Africa... No. But in my opinion, you only have to look at what the rest of Africa has become to know that South Africa won't get any better. Does that mean that YOU have to immigrate? No... It's a personal choice which may or may not be influenced by what others think and feel.

At the end of the day, no matter which continent you wake up in, you need to be happy with the choice you made.

[Bronwyn&Co]

Sorry about your bad experience JuliaClaire. A while back there was quite a bit of that on the forum but I've noticed the wheel has turned and now there are a lot more people willing to be honest and a bit more understanding of other people's situations ?

As far as I'm concerned if people qualified for and paid for a visa it's theirs until it expires. All's fair in love, war & visa apps ?

Edited August 25, 2014 by Bronwyn&Co

[Splunken]

I'm in a similar situation to you Theunis (minus the children), but my qualifications/experience and skillset are not as common in Aus as a CA seems to be, so that part of your concern isn't a worry for me. In fact the number of relevant companies I can work for are 20-30 times higher than in SA (and they're hiring it seems). I'm not moving because I hate SA (I personally think that's a recipe for disaster), or because I've personally been a victim of violent crime (besides seeing some horrific violence perpetrated on others at various times in my life) or because I need to. I'm immigrating for different opportunities and a bit of an adventure.

From my point of view, there are no certainties in life, you have to take chances/risks at some stage if the benefits are below your personal risk adversity threshold. Think of the reasons why you originally started the process and if they still ring true then reconsider your momentary doubt, if not then stop the process. It's not that difficult if you think logically about the whole process. Like other's have said, nobody can make this decision for you.

[Johnno]

Theunis

This is a question I ask myself everyday. Our PR visa expires in 2016. Do we make the move or do we let it lapse? We have 3 kids age 11,9, and 4.

My husband is 50. He is highly qualified in the marine sciences and has a great job here in SA which he loves. He has applied for lots of jobs (most below his level of expertise) in OZ with no luck. As each day goes by, the thought of taking up our PR visa grows dimmer and dimmer.

I can't help but feel perhaps we have missed the boat. The economy in oz seemed so much better back when we applied for visa - 2007.

JulieClaire, you're 100% correct regarding the Australian economy. I sympathise with those who have a good job/career in SA and are torn between giving it all up and starting over in the unknown. Is the timing ever right for that......that's an individuals decision and each to their own.

Many migrants (typically skilled Saffas) who have arrived in Aus over the last 10-15 or so years have enjoyed historically low unemployment, much higher than average wages and a booming economy. The only real downside has been the expensive housing and high cost of living but that was easily offset by the wages, all pushed along by skills demand. In fact it was so buoyant that some employers were paying anything from retention bonuses to "finders fees" just to secure staff. If you as an employee recommended another employee to your employer you got paid! At one stage one of the big mining companies (which has been in the news most recently for restructuring and high retrenchments) 2 years ago they were paying $5,000 finders fee for new staff!

Here the Reserve Bank of Australia boss puts it into perspective:

http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/rba-boss-glenn-stevens-is-right-unleash-your-inner-mongrel/story-e6frflo9-1227032287745

Australian have enjoyed more than two decades of uninterrupted economic growth. The biggest mining boom since gold rush days delivered us riches untold, through higher incomes and lower joblessness. But the cocoon of affluence has turned us soft. And as the mining boom fades, we need to fire up other engines of growth.

Do not come with high expectations and then you cannot be disappointed.I think this sums it up very well!

The decision to immigrate is such a personal choice, based on what YOU feel is the best decision for your family at a certain stage in your life.

Life in Aus won't be easier and, as mentioned previously in posts, we will more than likely have to take a major step back in earnings, job titles, house, vehicles etc in the beginning... But we are going for the lifestyle and to be able to afford our children the opportunities that they will probably not be offered in South Africa.

Do we dislike South Africa... No. But in my opinion, you only have to look at what the rest of Africa has become to know that South Africa won't get any better. Does that mean that YOU have to immigrate? No... It's a personal choice which may or may not be influenced by what others think and feel.

At the end of the day, no matter which continent you wake up in, you need to be happy with the choice you made.

Edited August 25, 2014 by Johnno

[Theunis]

.....NETWORKING.....

What is the most effective way? Joining sports clubs, church and any form of social groups or events?

How do you then sort of ask people to put you forward if they know of something coming up without being annoying, irritating or seeming desperate?

I also assume this forum is the starting point of networking?

Do Saffers tend to look out more for each other?

[Neels]

Hahaha Theunis,

You asked and boy did you get an array of replies. Lol. As for us, I'm awake at 4am (light sleeper and early riser) listening to some gentle rain and the lullaby sound of a soothing ocean caressing the reef 300m away through my open bedroom window....

Would I go back to my massive house with my private armed guards on the property, luxury cars, game farm, beach property etc? Not chance, zero, nada. We made that call the missus and I and we we don't regret it one minute bar that we didn't do it sooner. Come along mate, it's great here.

Hey SurferMan

Do you need a driver or a cook? I do the best Ribeye...

[Mel-B]

We might not be rich but I'm leaving my dogs, my family, my house and my friends behind when we leave - that is a lot of important things. That to me is a HUGE sacrifice. Money and comfort does not shield you from being hijacked or killed for your cellphone. It doesn't shield you from a corrupt government or bad service delivery. Do yourself a favour and read Beeld and Pretoria news every morning for 30 days. After that read an Australian online newspaper. It is easy to get lost in a comfortable life, and odds are you will never have that lifestyle again should you move... but you gain so much more. What is important to YOU? The people I heard about that returned to SA were more wealthy than not. They could just not cope with mechanics being on their salary level, having to pull weeds from the garden or washing floors. Most had businesses waiting here that they ran for their parents or inherited. Much easier than going to Australia and starting all over again, granted. But its that WHAT IF that gets to us all. What if you are the next statistic? What if its your wife or your child? is the lifestyle worth that? For me NO.

[VanTonderFamily]

This is what I based my decision on

There are 3 things that is very important to me in my child's life

- Education

- Health

- Environment

I can control all 3 of those things - and not with money

I am sorry to say - but I thing in 10 years from now - the standard of even the public schools in SA will be pathetic

Immigrating to Australia now, you have to have your qualification validated etc, what will a degree be worth from SA in 10 years time??? - absolutely nothing

All the good doctors are immigrating, because they have to deal with HIV and stab wounds and the worst scenarios ever - and I would also get out of SA if I was a doctor

I want my child to spread her wings and grow up making her own decisions, being free and able to stand on her own two feet

Not having to have a nanny or guard with her 24/7, because nowhere is safe

Private school is no safer than public school - the only difference is, the toys are more expensive

I will not allow my daughter to go to the movies with her friends anywhere in SA, except if I can sit just outside the cinema having a coffee

And if you can afford to send our child overseas to a varsity, you will probably end up being stuck in SA, and would never be able to get out - regardless how much money you have

And your children will never come back, not once they have seen what is outside of South Africa

Somehow - all the kids in Aus go 'outside' to explore the rest of the world, but they all come back to Australia

My choice was to give my child an oyster in her hand, guide her and help her to develop, but give her ammunition to fight her own battles - because the opportunities here are endless

We've only been here 4 months now - but we will never go back

We only realised how bad SA were, once we lived outside of it

You have no idea how free you feel by not having to look over your shoulder

And no - we did not leave because we were hit with crime or anything like that

We left for a better life, a better future

And I get how difficult it is to rock up here and not earn the same kind of money you earned in SA

We took a few steps back - but I promise you - going forward, will be 3 steps at a time

No one can ever answer your question for you - but I sure hope that if you have to choose between a quality and a quantity life - you do choose a quality life