Retiring in South Africa

[SAman4Aus]

We live in Aus and hold dual citizenship (Aus and RSA). Now that we are in our 50's the retirement thing becomes more of a consideration. We visit South Africa yearly for family reasons and to be honest things are waaaay cheaper there than in good al Australia. Food and drinks are an average 3 to 4 times cheaper than here in Aus even for the same brand product. I know prices keep going up in RSA, but realistically they cant get too expensive as the majority of the population are on the bread line.

So we're thinking, if one retires in RSA debt free, one's AU$ savings would last 3 times longer than if you retire in Australia, Thinking of buying a cottage on the beach in the Cape and live with our heads in the sand to avoid any of the local politics etc. (Yes I know it will have to be in a secure estate, crime will still be there etc etc)

The one drawback I can think of is medical services. In Australia you don't really need private medical but in RSA it's not an option to be without it. Even then I don't think the private hospitals in RSA are as good as the Ausy public hospitals (but then I don't really know for sure). Also not sure if one can even get medical cover once you're in your 60's and I'm sure it wont be cheap.

I know it's early days yet, but what other considerations am I missing with my retirement planning in South Africa? Has anyone else given the idea a thought?

BTW we don't have kids in Australia which makes it easier to up and go.

[Johnno]

Quite a lot of old people have been targeted lately and either killed, raped and then killed, raped, beaten to an inch of there lives etc. I am not sure if you would like to live here without a support network at least.

They had a episode on Carte Blanche a while back where they where beating old people in the old age home.

Unless you're paying seriously top dollar for a very well-to-do old aged care facility, I'm afraid they are nothing more than terrible institutions where no sane person would want to see their golden years out! My Dad (lives in Cape Town) needed care so we found a really nice place but at $25,000 / month it was quite a draw on the finances. His requirement was very sudden so with short notice that's all that was available. My Mom was on her own for the first time in 55 years of marriage and being in her 80's it was not nice knowing that she was all alone and having to look after herself. We had a brain-wave and arranged a 24/7 live-in carer dnd Dad is now at home and very happy. From sitting in a very depressing old age facility lounge area on a row of chairs with people a lot worse off than him, he's now living at home with one-on-one care. He gets taken for walks around his garden, he waters the plants, relaxes in his own lounge and sleeps in his own bed. The added advantage is that there's a qualified carer to look out for my Mom as well. It's good company for them and it's a lot safer than having the two oldies living on their own. It also costs less then the care facility.

[Donovan83]

I'm assuming you meant R25 000, not $25 000?

[Bronwyn&Co]

Unless you're paying seriously top dollar for a very well-to-do old aged care facility, I'm afraid they are nothing more than terrible institutions where no sane person would want to see their golden years out! My Dad (lives in Cape Town) needed care so we found a really nice place but at $25,000 / month it was quite a draw on the finances. His requirement was very sudden so with short notice that's all that was available. My Mom was on her own for the first time in 55 years of marriage and being in her 80's it was not nice knowing that she was all alone and having to look after herself. We had a brain-wave and arranged a 24/7 live-in carer dnd Dad is now at home and very happy. From sitting in a very depressing old age facility lounge area on a row of chairs with people a lot worse off than him, he's now living at home with one-on-one care. He gets taken for walks around his garden, he waters the plants, relaxes in his own lounge and sleeps in his own bed. The added advantage is that there's a qualified carer to look out for my Mom as well. It's good company for them and it's a lot safer than having the two oldies living on their own. It also costs less then the care facility.

Johnno how did you arrange the carer? Through an agency? And does she live in? I am getting increasingly worried about my grandparents aged 83 & 87.

[Johnno]

Bronwyn&Co, we were put in contact with an agency in Cape Town. It's a whole new world for us but it's working well. If you need any more info feel free to PM me.

I'm assuming you meant R25 000, not $25 000?

Oooops, yeah....typo

[Lavender]

What about property in Aus? It is so expensive that we just cannot buy anything! The smallest little retirement house in Helensvale, Gold Coast, will cost anything up to $189 000 aud and more. Rand 1,9 million?? For that amount I will be able to buy an expensive retirement place in South Africa and still have some money left over. If you have to use SA Rand in Aus you will soon be without money. My hubby do casual work to keep us going and he is 72. Thankful that he is still healthy and able to do so. I know a couple our age that delivers the Gold Coast Bulletin newspaper every night of the week except Sundays to keep themselves going. So life is not easy here. There are many S/Africans with lots of money and that is a different story. They can afford nice places etc. but then a lot like us and many others like us work trying to save their savings from S/Africa. Things are not that bad at this moment in time in S/Africa. We will be able to live a good life their and also have much more support with all our family.

We also have to wait another 8 years (10 in total) before we will get any kind of pension back. By that time my hubby will be 80 and that made us thinking again. We only have the following few years with the Grace of God, to enjoy, and why not enjoying with all our sisters, brothers, other son and family in S/Africa! Hard decision to make for us!

We pay towards BUPA Health Care $260 aud per month. I had a quote from Medihelp S/Africa R3300 per month. Our car insurance here cheap at $27 aud per month but then you pay $660 aud per year for your car registration and that is only a 1400 Hyunday Getz. We are fortunate to stay with our children but if we had to rent a granny flat, like we have now, you will pay anything from $250 audollars per week for that. $1000 aud per month (R10 000)? It depends on the size and area etc.

[Bronwyn&Co]

I agree Lavender, it's not an easy decision my friend's father is over 70 here in Bne and he had his own business in SA. He now works as a cleaner, 6am shifts! It's terrible.

You can get a townhouse overlooking the sea in CT for the same price as a very ugly 2 bed unit here.

It's a hard decision... Good luck, I think in time it will be worth it, but you have to make use of everything else that Australia offers, to make it worth the sacrifice.

B

Edited March 28, 2014 by Bronwyn&Co

[Bob]

Obviously, the earlier in life you arrive in Australia, earn Australian wages and pay Australian prices for home, car and so on, the more you can afford a better retirement.

If you arrive in Australia at the end of your working life (early 60s), only have South African money from the sale of your home, car and so on, then this will get you next to nothing in Australia @ R10.00 to A$1.00.

You will not have contributed into the Australian pension scheme, so are not entitled to any Australian payouts either.

Your South African income from a Retirement benefit there won't buy you the same in Australia.

The thing is, the later you have left your "run" to get to Australia, the more behind you will be financially.

I really feel sad for the older South Africans I come across, who have only their South African incomes to live off, next to no job prospects here in Australia to earn Australian $$$$$ and no entitlement to an Australian pension either.

They really are the ones who have "missed the boat" . . . . . not physically, but in financial and other ways, they have.

They haven't had the time to build up any sort of 'nest egg' to help them in their old age Down Under.

Any South African in their 30s and 40s thinking of bringing mum and dad over to live had better do the sums, because the chances are they will be subsidising their oldies lifestyle until they die, or at least for the first 10 years until they qualify for an Australian old Age pension, and even then that will not afford the oldies a trip overseas each year.

Edited March 28, 2014 by Bob

[funtobeaussiechick]

What about property in Aus? It is so expensive that we just cannot buy anything! The smallest little retirement house in Helensvale, Gold Coast, will cost anything up to $189 000 aud and more. Rand 1,9 million?? For that amount I will be able to buy an expensive retirement place in South Africa and still have some money left over. If you have to use SA Rand in Aus you will soon be without money. My hubby do casual work to keep us going and he is 72. Thankful that he is still healthy and able to do so. I know a couple our age that delivers the Gold Coast Bulletin newspaper every night of the week except Sundays to keep themselves going. So life is not easy here. There are many S/Africans with lots of money and that is a different story. They can afford nice places etc. but then a lot like us and many others like us work trying to save their savings from S/Africa. Things are not that bad at this moment in time in S/Africa. We will be able to live a good life their and also have much more support with all our family.

We also have to wait another 8 years (10 in total) before we will get any kind of pension back. By that time my hubby will be 80 and that made us thinking again. We only have the following few years with the Grace of God, to enjoy, and why not enjoying with all our sisters, brothers, other son and family in S/Africa! Hard decision to make for us!

We pay towards BUPA Health Care $260 aud per month. I had a quote from Medihelp S/Africa R3300 per month. Our car insurance here cheap at $27 aud per month but then you pay $660 aud per year for your car registration and that is only a 1400 Hyunday Getz. We are fortunate to stay with our children but if we had to rent a granny flat, like we have now, you will pay anything from $250 audollars per week for that. $1000 aud per month (R10 000)? It depends on the size and area etc.

How did you get into Australia when you were so old? I am curious to know

[Jordy]

How did you get into Australia when you were so old? I am curious to know

Parental Visa would be a valid guess.

[Mel-B]

I think food is cheaper in SA, as well as housing. If you are not scared of crime, and you can afford a medical plan (remember you pay more if you were out of the country for a period of time), and the politics and economical and social problems don't bug you, and you don't have kids to worry about, then do it. SA is a lovely country. We are moving because of the worries about our kids, and the political and social problems and of course the crime. If those things are not worrisome to you then this place is NICE. Consider though that you would need to have ADT or join a sector watch group for your safety, and you would need a reliable vehicle as you can't use public transport or want to get stuck on a road somewhere with a broken car. That is just what I think. That said, I would shudder if my mom could be somewhere else and wanted to move here to retire. I would be worried sick about her 24/7, unless there was family who would vow to take care of her. Then again my father in law is a foreigner as well as my own father and both would not leave SA for anything. They swear Africa is heaven on earth.

[SurferMan]

Africa is the dark continent for a reason. it is beautiful, but savagely so. Wars rage across her face like a veld fire, regimes rise and fall like a crude club, but against the very people they claim to be saving. Constant fighting and lack stability...it should have been prosperous ages ago.

Edited March 31, 2014 by SurferMan

[Guest May]

Hell on earth. And savage and dark continent.

[Lavender]

We came over on a contributory parent 143 visa. My son had to sponsor us. We are living with them at the moment but not the best thing to do even if I really love them. They still have their own life ahead with their children and maybe grandchildren? We also had to pay $68000 for the specific visa en still have to wait 10 years for the pension. If we go back to S/Africa we will lose that money. You do not get anything back only the Assurance of Support and that in ten years time (8 years to go). So I think oupas and oumas must really think twice unless they have lots of money to support themselves. My cousin just went into a frail care in Pretoria (80 years). It is not the top of the range but they do care for her in a wonderful and caring way (all black people) and she is happy. People must stop to run everything down in South Africa. Maybe it makes them feel better, don't know.

Our children visited S/Africa for the first time in 6.5 years during Dec/Jan 2014. Although they will never go back as they are very happy here, they found a lot of things that was still so good. They said that the restaurants, coffee shops were excellent and prices. The service excellent and very friendly. Clothing very good quality and good prices. People, especially black people, very friendly. They were amazed as things in Pretoria were still the same for them. Loved Cape Town. I agree that a lot of things need to get better but if you have to live there, then you just have to make things work for you.

I respect everyone's decisions as long as we are all happy!

[McCabes]

Lavender...

I've been thinking about this, and hope you don't take this the wrong way.

Yes, if you HAVE to live here, I'm sure you can find ways to make the best of it.

But please don't come thinking things are going to be wonderful and perfect. I've only been to Aus once, and only for 2 weeks, but even in that short time, the feeling of absolute safety was amazing - to the point that for a week after we got back, my heart would shift into hyperdrive, and I would lie hardly able to breath every night if the dogs barked at anything. Being safe is not a small thing.

Also... don't take all those pedestrian paths going everywhere for granted. No, you don't NEED them, I guess. But it's just a sign of the society. Same with public transport... there really isn't much in the way of public transport here that you can safely use - that isn't very expensive anyway. I think once you're used to being able to meander the path to the library or shop or hairdresser, or hop on the train or bus or tram to wherever you're going, it can be difficult to get used to not having that anymore.

RE food etc, especially in Gauteng, we are starting to feel the pinch of etolls, as all companies are shifting the cost to consumers. It will still feel "cheap" as it did for us to come back and pay under $2 for a cappuccino, but for the most part, meat & veg - basics - cost the same here as in Aus. Clothing can be cheap, but most of it is coming from china. Well... unless you're still converting to AU$, then even the designer ranges at Woollies and the like will seem cheap. But once you're getting ZAR in / just using rands, it's not *that* cheap anymore.

Please don't misunderstand me... I think in your shoes I would be considering the same move, I'm just worried that the picture you have isn't realistic - coming here on holiday, and living here are two very different things.. and the cost of living is definitely going up.

I wish you all the best and hope your plans go smoothly! Take care.

Edited April 4, 2014 by McCabes

[funtobeaussiechick]

Agreed totally, price of safety has no price

[Lavender]

Thank you McCabes, appreciate your comments.

I know exactly what you mean. I have been living there for 66 years and only two in Aus but has been visiting Aus since 2007. I also know how fortunate we are to be here where everything just works. At our age things are really different and it is not easy for older people to make such a big change. My other son still lives in S/Africa as all of our sisters and brothers and other family. We have daily contact and we know what is going on. We know all about security all day and night. We are definitely not living in cloud cuckoo land. We are worried what might change after the voting?

Although not always so violent, we have daily stabbings, murders, home invasions. Things are changing slowly but surely and one has to be more alert than ever before. Drugs are a major problem. But still so much safer here and wonderful for children.

Thank you and have a lovely week!

www.ninemsn.com.au

[McCabes]

Yes, I think that's what all of us are wondering about! I don't think we are going to see anything change, to be honest, and one of the opposition party leaders has raised concerns about rogue elements in the IEC who may rig the result for the ANC... I guess I will just be very surprised if the ANC get less than 60% of the vote, but even if they do get less, I think we all know we're in for another 5 years of theft and corruption under Zuma

Are you planning to wait until after the elections before making a move?

Good luck with everything, Lavender! I really wish you well, can't imagine how difficult all this must be!

Edited April 7, 2014 by McCabes

[Lavender]

Will only move in about 4/5 months or as soon as the current property gets sold. Thank you for understanding and good luck and best wishes!

Lavender

[Mel-B]

It is a huge decision. Good luck, whatever you do, I hope it works out well for you! Life is a journey, and we should enjoy it, wherever it takes us

[CGP]

The one drawback I can think of is medical services. In Australia you don't really need private medical but in RSA it's not an option to be without it. Even then I don't think the private hospitals in RSA are as good as the Ausy public hospitals (but then I don't really know for sure). Also not sure if one can even get medical cover once you're in your 60's and I'm sure it wont be cheap.

Agreed about public hospitals, but disagree on private hospitals. The private hospitals in RSA are as good as anything I experienced in the UK or Aus. With the government hospitals becoming as bad as they have, the need for 1st world medical facilities gave rise to private hospitals being built. The doctors are good (and very well paid so they don't all leave). You will need medical aid though as you won't get any assistance at a private hospital without it. Since we've been in Aus we've never once had an Aussie doctor. We've had Chinese, Pakistani, Indian and Bangladesh doctors who were all very good. (Only1 was bad/terrible and he was from elsewhere in the 3rd world.) If SA universities can't produce good doctors in future, then the private hospitals in SA will import them from elsewhere too because (1) people are quite obviously prepared to pay for decent medical care and (2) it's too expensive to have bad doctors from a reputation/litigation point of view.

You will be able to get medical aid - it will be unconstitutional to be declined. It will be pretty expensive though, at a guess I'd say it would come in at about $400-$600 a month for 2 people in their 60's, depending on cover.

[SurferMan]

Africa is stunning, if you accept thr isk that comes with it, there is no place like it on earth. I cannot accept the level of risk nor the discrimination. I can have everything bar the Big Five and the bushveld, so I will stay here. i love Aus.

[patrice]

think i will take my chances and retire in Oz allbeit on a modest income

I agree ones' money will likely last much longer in ZAR - but will you ??

[SurferMan]

I would rather have a small pandokie near the beach here in Aus, than a palace with armed guards, ravenous, dogs, CCTV, humming electric fences etc. In fact I have become so used to living like one should, I could not conceive of going back to "DEFCON 1" and living like I've got 5 minutes to go. No thanks. My money keeps on beating the rand year after year (Sorry Saffers... )

I can see my Super slowly climbing up the scale, (not fast enough, ) and my quality of life is the best it's ever been. I am so blessed to be here and to have what I do. Nee wat, hou maar Efrika. I do miss the bushveld sometimes though....

[Bronwyn&Co]

Well it burns my bum to think of the retirement we could have had in SA, I'm not going to lie...sometimes I wonder about the sanity of dividing your life savings by 10 in your 40's & 50's. Some may say it's extremely irresponsible ?

[SurferMan]

hi there Bronwyn&co,

Heartily agree with you, thing is you would need to balance the odds of being around to spend it....Also, SA is getting expensive. Not for those who rely on the 10-12% of taxpayers (insane already) but for you as a taxpayer. For essentials you pay 2x already. 2x for safety, medical, education, roads, petrol. Stealth taxes make up as much as 71 cents to a Rand. Its nuts. I too have had dreams of what it would have been like to retire to one of my farms/plots in the Cape, KZN, Kosi Bay etc. But the risk and the number of close shaves that God saved us from, eisch. loaded dice.

I know this story's been flogged more than the Maracena song, but it still holds true. If I kept on course for another 10 years, I could have retired young and wealthy, but I chose safety and a good life over SA. I miss my mates and my family, and some days its hard yakka, but that is common no matter where you live*

Why does Zoooma tell people your vote is wasted if you vote for others? Surely you can do so if you wish. (As an example)

*T&Cs apply. African Presidents for life need not worry, until Spring time..., )

Dont touch me on my Presidency! Waaahaaa