Crossedover Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 My one daughter is due to start high school in 2015 so we went to the prospective parents evening....The school in question is by far my first chose, not because I went there but because of its fantastic academic record. In the recent past one of the past pupils came first in South Africa so it's a great school. The school can correctly boast a 100% pass rate for the last 20 years.... And in 2013 99.5% of their close to 200 gr 12's received a university acceptable pass.... Only one child received a diploma acceptable pass... When I graduated out of my class of about 100 girls... I would guess maybe 35 of us got matric exemptions / university acceptable passes.... While to many parents watching this presentation they will be wowing the school, and they do have good reason to be proud... That takes lots of hard work from the girls and their teachers and the supportive role of their parents.....BUTAn alarm went off in my head.... How is it possible for the entire grade to be passed at this high level.... It's a scary reality that the normal girls in my community have managed to do exceptionally well.... So what is out 35% pass rate actually. The average number of A's achieved by each candidate at the school in question was 3+ (2013) I think I got one A .... A's were amazing to get back then.... And I got many high B's.... I would say 65 to 70% of my year never saw an A... And it was not in the dark ages either... Some of the teachers who taught me are still there!!!!!For me this is scary! What will my girls education be worth by the time they leave high school???? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndreR Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 You make a very good point Crossingover and I've often wondered about this. Back in the 80's when I went to school distinctions were a rare thing, and many people had to drop down to standard or even lower grade to pass. Many of my friends just couldn't hack school and left after Std 8 to go to technical college. Nowadays kids are taking extra subjects and getting 8 distinctions. Is it easier today or are we just not as smart as our kids? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibella Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 Yes this is interesting. As my daughter just started high school I was looking at the 2013 VCE school ranking in Victoria and in the number one school 37% achieved a ranking of 40+ (which is difficult to explain but equates to an A+). They also list the average study score for the schools, anything over 37 (equates to A average overall) is outstanding.Have a look at the results here:http://bettereducation.com.au/Results/vce.aspx?yr=2013So yes definitely not that easy here in Victoria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFreshStart Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 A friend of ours has just relocated to Aus, she sent her daughter to one of the top private schools in SA, spared no expense on her education and because she wanted to go to Uni in Aus she thought it best to do her matric equivalent year there to make a few friends and get a few classes under her belt.Well she's started now and is on the lowest grade math level as her math and sciences are well below the average in Aus in a public school, this coming from one of the top 10 private girls high schools in SA.It's one of the big drawcards to Aus of us and our family, our children's education. I still hope to encourage their entrepreneurial spirits in Aus, much like I'd have to do here in SA as I believe for many being gainfully self-employed is going to be the only option, but they'll have access to world class education as well as learn languages like Mandarin, which given the power of China will stand them in much better stead economically.CheersMatt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCabes Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 (edited) AFS/Matt - did she do well here at the private school though? I just mean, if she was taking Maths Lit and not really doing any of the sciences then even being at a top private school isn't going to help her much regardless of where she goes. I guess what I'm trying to say is that kids can do poorly even if they're going to one of the best schools in the country. Going there on it's own isn't going to gaurantee success.Look mine are only starting school and looking at it from this angle, they are stuffing an absolutely REDICULOUS amount into the early grades... but then I'm hearing over and over that the high schools just aren't cutting it. Maybe it's a sign that they are trying to get it right for the next lot who are coming through, but at this stage, if we decide to stay (doubtful), then we will be doing CIE for high school. We simply cannot afford private school for 3 kids, and I'm not going to waste time or money on a certificate that is meaningless even in SA.Just to explain, my son started grade 2... they now have to jump from doing addition & subtraction comfortably to 10 and taking a bit more time, to 20, but still coping. This year they are expected to leap into doing calculations in the hundreds, well into the hundreds... from 20??? They will also do times tables, fractions, time telling, money - making change etc. They had to memorise the national anthem in the first week and have a termly prayer they have to memorise as well...Reading I'm ignoring because they are still giving him "look Jane, look. There is a shop. Come and see." books and he is reading chapter books, so I can't say anything about that, except that I feel they are WAY behind in this! He is expected to practice cursive patterns, learn spelling, do multiple pages of bonds (addition/subtraction), practice phonics blends, learn nouns, adjectives and verbs, do supplementary reading, learn an english poem, read an afrikaans poem with expression, practice a page of afrikaans words starting with A, re-order mixed sentences, correctly punctuate others, and write 5 of his own of 7 words or more, doubling and halving (including halves ie what's half of 3? 1.5 etc), oh and we have to teach him alphabetical order - up to the second letter of words, so if given ant, ate, ace, brown and bear, they must correctly place the words in alphabetical order. That's just this weeks homework.The teacher herself told her they have really loaded this year (grade 2) and they have many tests and assessments and the pressure is huge.To me, these early years should be less about the tests and more about ensuring the kids have the basic building blocks they need for the next phase in education. Now it feels like they are packing the work on because they know there's a huge problem in high school, and often, by then, it's too late.But I don't think this system is going to work either. these kids are going to burn out before they get to high school. Edited February 7, 2014 by McCabes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFreshStart Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 McCabes, she was a top student at school, so it wasn't a matter of poor grades, which is part of the worry, if she wasn't at the highest level that they school offered then I wouldn't be worried about it much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCabes Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 Ok, that makes more sense, and is pretty shocking... what are people paying for if not better quality education.Though, it's been seen in the international tests they do for a while now - the IEB schools perform slightly better than government schools, BUT they still don't manage to reach the AVERAGE scores of most other countries. Seriously concerning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryVR Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 AFS/Matt - did she do well here at the private school though? I just mean, if she was taking Maths Lit and not really doing any of the sciences then even being at a top private school isn't going to help her much regardless of where she goes. I guess what I'm trying to say is that kids can do poorly even if they're going to one of the best schools in the country. Going there on it's own isn't going to gaurantee success.Look mine are only starting school and looking at it from this angle, they are stuffing an absolutely REDICULOUS amount into the early grades... but then I'm hearing over and over that the high schools just aren't cutting it. Maybe it's a sign that they are trying to get it right for the next lot who are coming through, but at this stage, if we decide to stay (doubtful), then we will be doing CIE for high school. We simply cannot afford private school for 3 kids, and I'm not going to waste time or money on a certificate that is meaningless even in SA.Just to explain, my son started grade 2... they now have to jump from doing addition & subtraction comfortably to 10 and taking a bit more time, to 20, but still coping. This year they are expected to leap into doing calculations in the hundreds, well into the hundreds... from 20??? They will also do times tables, fractions, time telling, money - making change etc. They had to memorise the national anthem in the first week and have a termly prayer they have to memorise as well...Reading I'm ignoring because they are still giving him "look Jane, look. There is a shop. Come and see." books and he is reading chapter books, so I can't say anything about that, except that I feel they are WAY behind in this! He is expected to practice cursive patterns, learn spelling, do multiple pages of bonds (addition/subtraction), practice phonics blends, learn nouns, adjectives and verbs, do supplementary reading, learn an english poem, read an afrikaans poem with expression, practice a page of afrikaans words starting with A, re-order mixed sentences, correctly punctuate others, and write 5 of his own of 7 words or more, doubling and halving (including halves ie what's half of 3? 1.5 etc), oh and we have to teach him alphabetical order - up to the second letter of words, so if given ant, ate, ace, brown and bear, they must correctly place the words in alphabetical order. That's just this weeks homework.The teacher herself told her they have really loaded this year (grade 2) and they have many tests and assessments and the pressure is huge.To me, these early years should be less about the tests and more about ensuring the kids have the basic building blocks they need for the next phase in education. Now it feels like they are packing the work on because they know there's a huge problem in high school, and often, by then, it's too late.But I don't think this system is going to work either. these kids are going to burn out before they get to high school.I think you guys are going to be shocked to realise that what your child is currently doing, is probably what is the minimum expected here in Australia. If you go to a private school, you'd freak out to see what THEY expect there. Remember the Australian Y12 PUBLIC Certificate is accepted for University study in the UK and all countries which adhere to the International Standard comparable to the British O levels. I don't know what the situation is currently with acceptance of South Africa's public system Matric Certificate in the UK, but I do know that students with a public Matric Certificate in South Africa are not accepted in to university placements in Australia. Know of a couple who had to have their daughter re-do Y11 and Y12 here in Australia, before she could gain university entrance, fortunately she persevered and is now a Doctor in Marine Biology, having just taken a fantastic job in a major research project involving The Great Barrier Reef! My son in Y8 is doing maths which I did in my FIRST year at university in South Africa, times have certainly changed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drought Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 The South African Senior certificate is indeed accept in Australia for university entry- like all quals, it depends on how well the individual student performed. see this link for an idea of how the conversion works for Queensland universities, a similar version applies to other unis in Aus: http://www.uq.edu.au/study/docs/domestic/south-africa-senior.pdfThere is no difference in Australia between the certificate achieved at a public school and the one achieved at a private/independent school- excluding of course programs such as IB, Steiner, Montessori ( who generally do IB) In WA all students sit exactly the same external WACE exams. I am not aware of any state in WA that has different Certificates for public and private schools.Can go on listing examples of SA kids that have done extremely well in the Aus system and of other that have struggled. Similarly can also list examples of students in year 12 in private schools in Aus who cannot do their times tables, etc,etc,.What is concerning is what is regarded as a "pass" in SA; however the minimum entry level at a particular university in Perth is an ATAR of 55. This equates to a student having achieved an average percentage of 45% for 4 subjects in year 12- or put another way; failing 4 subjects in year 12 can get you into university- what an outrage and this student could 4 years down the track be your child's classroom teacher!!!!! It's all relative. But I'd rather have the options provided by completing schooling in Aus than those potentially offered by schooling in SA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryVR Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 The South African Senior certificate is indeed accept in Australia for university entry- like all quals, it depends on how well the individual student performed. see this link for an idea of how the conversion works for Queensland universities, a similar version applies to other unis in Aus: http://www.uq.edu.au/study/docs/domestic/south-africa-senior.pdfThere is no difference in Australia between the certificate achieved at a public school and the one achieved at a private/independent school- excluding of course programs such as IB, Steiner, Montessori ( who generally do IB) In WA all students sit exactly the same external WACE exams. I am not aware of any state in WA that has different Certificates for public and private schools.Can go on listing examples of SA kids that have done extremely well in the Aus system and of other that have struggled. Similarly can also list examples of students in year 12 in private schools in Aus who cannot do their times tables, etc,etc,.What is concerning is what is regarded as a "pass" in SA; however the minimum entry level at a particular university in Perth is an ATAR of 55. This equates to a student having achieved an average percentage of 45% for 4 subjects in year 12- or put another way; failing 4 subjects in year 12 can get you into university- what an outrage and this student could 4 years down the track be your child's classroom teacher!!!!! It's all relative. But I'd rather have the options provided by completing schooling in Aus than those potentially offered by schooling in SA [/quoteI am perfectly aware that students in Australia sit the same exams in the private sector as well as the public sector. The point I was trying to make is that a student who had gone through the public system in Australia has access to a range of international opportunities, unlike a student who has finished through the public system in South Africa.I was certainly not having in mind a university course where there is no selection criteria, teachers are a dime a dozen! Please look into courses which have to meet selection criteria and the picture is quite different. IB Candidates from South Africa stand a chance, but then I doubt if that student would come from a public school in South Africa? It is also a known fact places are reserved in even selection criteria courses at universities in Australia for full fee paying international students, but then the Immigration Department in Australia place exclusion periods to be able to work in Australia on such students once they achieve their degrees. Not a great idea if you were thinking about settling in Australia eventually. If you had to arrive in Australia as a PR with a child that had just completed Y12 in South Africa, then that child does not qualify to be a full fee paying International Student, regardless if the parents can afford it. Such a student would have to meet the criteria should they wish to apply for a selection criterium course.So, in the end it's all about what your child wants to do, their hard work will get them where they want to be. I know of people from Australian Public schools who have made it in to university in selection criteria courses where the minimum ATAR was 99.2 and they have made a resounding success of their studies and subsequent careers. Also know of children from "affluent" families who had to do the family thing and went to prominent private schools and not get in to any selection criteria courses. One boy who went to a $25k a year private boys school in Melbourne for 5 years finished up a tattoo artist after fooling around in a Bachelor degree course in Journalism for 2 years. So, it's relative! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drought Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 Do not wish to get into a protracted "he said, she said", but suffice to say that all university courses have selection criteria- for a start there is the the indicative ATAR , and in some instances further criteria may apply.I am more than happy to provide accurate information for those who so desire, (even those who do not respect other professions). To all the teachers out there, hats off to you, even if you are a dime a dozed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryVR Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 Do not wish to get into a protracted "he said, she said", but suffice to say that all university courses have selection criteria- for a start there is the the indicative ATAR , and in some instances further criteria may apply.I am more than happy to provide accurate information for those who so desire, (even those who do not respect other professions). To all the teachers out there, hats off to you, even if you are a dime a dozed You are completely out of line by implying that I don't respect other professions. My point was that studying to become a teacher is currently one of the courses where you can enter university with the lowest ATAR required to enter Uni. ThIs in no way implies a lack of respect, it's a mere fact!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossedover Posted February 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Occasionally as I stood in front of my class of matrics I would secretly smile at my situation ....I was standing teaching future doctors, scientists, accaturial science masteres..... It's an honour being a teacher... An undervalued honour.A point of interest... Whether gr 12's write the government matric papers or the IEB which are INDEPENDENT ( not international) examination board papers they are all awarded the same senior certificate used to enter varsity. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronwyn&Co Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 We have recently been through the process. Our eldest son finished his IEB matric in South Africa in 2010. He flew here to live with PR after the Dec holidays & we then started the process of trying to get him into uni in Qld. What a pain in the rear, he was neither an Australian applicant or an International student & after being shoved from pillar to post we missed the cut-off dates for entry because they couldn't give him an OP & rank in time. We screamed & shouted, begged & pleaded, phoned the IEB people in CT. Whatever. He finally got a crappy rank that got him into a science course for the June intake. After the first 18 months of time wasting in science, he got a trf to Engineering at the uni he wanted (UQ). He's 2nd year now & passing no problems, thank goodness. But it was stressful & expensive. His IEB matric set him up for his Engineering degree. His whole 1st year uni maths was what he did at school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCabes Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Crossing over, has that changed recently, as I'm pretty sure my IEB matric certificate stated it was IEB at the top... I could be wrong thought as I haven't looked at it in a while, but I'm not sure what the point would be and how anyone would tell the difference if it didn't state what examining board/type of certificate is?Sorry not meaning to argue, I'm more wondering, so think "rhetorical questioning tone" while reading the above please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossedover Posted February 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 You may have been granted an IEB certificate by the IEB people but it would not have been your formal school leaving certificate. That is your national senior certificate issued by the state, these are standardized, they are all the same irrespective of whether you wrote the state exams or the IEB exams. Not important really .... Just hope my kids cope and fly in their new schools over there .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaughanroe Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 My eldest son is in Kindy here in Aus so he is 5. I am pretty amazed at the amount nof homework they get already. I am worried I might not be of much use to him when he gets to highschool and need some assistance... heck I am worried about hiom getting to grade 5 and needing some help! (mild panic attack coming on...) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurferMan Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Ahh, my son already taxes me. He is building Meccano and Lego Technik for 17yo and he is only 7. A few weeks back he built a differential and gearbox (2 speed) and then came to me for help with the shaft rotation speeds, due to crown gear size issues. Man I love it. Disclaimer, I am not an engineer but like any bloke love tinkering, so i know how they work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryVR Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 Thankfully we don't have to worry about this whole education debate, as 2 of our children have finished secondary education in Australia and the youngest in high school. Whoohooooo !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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