TQO Posted July 5, 2013 Report Share Posted July 5, 2013 We had a very lengthy meeting with our broker from Liberty yesterday who claims that we cannot move our RA's from RSA to Oz. Nor can we cash them in. He says they are good investments and we should leave them as is, even continue to pay them from Oz when we leave, and come back to RSA at 55 and enjoy a holiday ... For me that is 23 years from now - even if I have family still alive here in 23 years time, I doubt very much that I would actually want to come and holiday here .So my question is this: bar approaching CashKows and Exchange for Free for guidance herein, is there anything that can in fact be done with the RA's and what have you done with yours....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GideonVD Posted July 5, 2013 Report Share Posted July 5, 2013 You CAN have them paid out once you have provided proof that you are now an Australian Tax Resident. This is all that's required by SARB and SARS. The insurance companies then have to pay out the full amount and not the "early withdrawal" reduced amount. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Posted July 5, 2013 Report Share Posted July 5, 2013 They way I understood it, is that if you formally immigrate, you can pull all your money out of RSA (including RAs). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TQO Posted July 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2013 This is what I don't understand about these brokers - why don't they tell you about all the options available to you!?! Thanks Gideon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardH Posted July 5, 2013 Report Share Posted July 5, 2013 This is what I don't understand about these brokers - why don't they tell you about all the options available to you!?! Thanks Gideon.He wants his commission every month until you are 55.... Read the thread about DIY formal migration in the forums. I have almost finished doing mine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichtB Posted July 5, 2013 Report Share Posted July 5, 2013 I also understood it the same as Erik. You need to follow the formal emigration process to get all of your RA's paid out into the blocked account. From there it is moved to your bank account in Australia. All other bank accounts/credit cards etc must be closed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GideonVD Posted July 5, 2013 Report Share Posted July 5, 2013 Formal Emigration, this requires proof that you are an Australian Tax Resident also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TQO Posted July 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2013 Thanks very much everyone - would you mind pointing me in the direction of these 'formal emigration' threads? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad76 Posted July 5, 2013 Report Share Posted July 5, 2013 Firstly, I'd consider changing brokers, his advice is suspect and he seems more interested in commission than advising what may / may not be in your best interest!Once you formally emigrate you can get a release on funds tied up in RA'sWhile you're waiting for your visa and if you're virtually certain of a positive outcome you could also consider converting the RA's to a paid up status! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HadEnoughofJuju Posted July 5, 2013 Report Share Posted July 5, 2013 Hey TQO fire that broker. He doesn't want to tell you the whole truth because if he does he looses 23 years of commission. Liberty brokers are on the same level for me as dodgy migration agents and car sales people (lower than shark poop). Here is one of the threads where formal emigration is discussed at length. http://www.saaustralia.org/index.php/topic/38043-formal-emigration-has-anyone-done-it-on-their-own/page-3#entry355778My other suggestion would be to contact companies like Cashkows or Exchange4Free and get some real advice from them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugo2 Posted July 8, 2013 Report Share Posted July 8, 2013 Cashkows.com formal emigration link although I see that you said short of going to Cashkows.com or Exchange4Free. Do take into account Cashkows.com will provide you with a free no commitment assessment and if you elect not use us the process is parked and no cost is incurred. The free assessment includes a consent form, not a broker appointment, to obtain the true and relevant info from Liberty and others. Consent forms does not allow us to earn any fees from the fund i.e. it is truly at no cost to you! Why do we do it for free? Despite all the successful DIY emigrations quoted on here, the largest portion of enquiries eventually return after trying all other options without success. Most of the success DIY stories listed is often the same people repeating their success story. I agree it can be done yourself or by your (willing) broker or banker or auditor or friend. There is no requirement to use CA(SA) form, yet we are proud of our SAICA, SAIT, STEP and other professional body registrations and memberships.I also wrote a long blog on the process - read my blog summary, which is little dated but it remains to be a valuable guideYour broker seem to have NO understanding of the Australian tax system. The SA Retirement Annuity is taxable or assessable assets every year you own it. Yes the ATO (=SARS in Oz) taxes you on the annual growth despite the fact that you could not yet access the funds!Your broker is also outdated on the SA taxation of foreign retirement funds should you return to SA in 23 years. In terms of the foreign income rules when you retire to SA, you will pay tax on the Super's income using years of SA membership/total year of membership.As you joined the Super after you left SA tax system, the SA years of membership = 0/25 =0% (I assume 23 years left plus 2 years already in Oz). If you dump your after tax RA into the Super, you effectively receive the growth tax free should you return to SA in 23 years as the years in RA is not added to the Super's membership years.If you keep you Super and only commence monthly benefits 5 years after your return to SA in 23 years, the ratio is 2/30 i.e. one fifteenth of your monthly pension ex Super will be taxed in SA, yet the said amount is reduced by contributions not deducted in SA in the last 5 years (year 26 to 30).Compare this to the SA rules which will tax you on the RA build up whilst not tax resident. Your Liberty RA will be fully taxed and please do not believe him that the contributions made from Oz will be deductible in year 23 or 30, it just aint true anymore, see the SARS tax law amendments 2013 which removes the deduction of carry forward excess contributions.The other part he failed to tell you is that Cosatu and ANC suggested in the new retirement reform legislation should be built in a cap on the one third commutation. Before you can get one third your fund, in future, will probably have to retain a minimum fund balance equal to your life expectancy at age 55 (say 44 year's) worth of the state's old age benefit. So if the old age pension is then R10000 pa and your life expectancy is 44, they have to ensure your 2/3 portion equals R440 000. If your fund is say R400 000 you will be denied a one third lump sum. Will this proposal be carried? Lets hope not but see the treasury and sars web pages on pension reform.Last question, unless your SA RA fund allows you to hedge against the Rand, the currency loss for the next 23 years, using past 23 year's history will be adequate reason to say the suggestion to fund Rand policy from hard currency Oz dollars is probably reportable misconduct? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GideonVD Posted July 9, 2013 Report Share Posted July 9, 2013 So like Hugo said...Get it out of RSA as soon as you can... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TQO Posted July 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2013 Wow! Thanks Hugo - we will definitely get in touch.Thanks again everyone - much appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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