Discipline and Kids

[Guest May]

Parents hold on to your seats because are you in for the ride of your life. Make sure those first years of discipline is in place because when you get to see the enrolment officer you are just the poor sucker with a wallet. They sit eye to eye with the kids 12 and 13 and talk to them with the occasional acknowledgement to your existence in the room every once in a while.

I chose to put my kids in a State High School in South Brisbane and will keep them there for this year (this comment for all who come after me to the forum)/ lovely school rated high on the list 3-5th teaching Auslan sign language with Mandarin with a lovely program and teachers, however a tad too liberal for me...what you win on the intellectual end you may lose on the discipline because it fosters creativity and diversity can boil down to no uniform (very well controlled), long hair in boys(past shoulder length) with full beards. High tolerance to children of different cultural backgrounds except I fear they fall back into their ethnic groups and kids like mine who are South African Asian fall between the lost souls.

I take my eldest off to the audiologist today, he sits the boy down and tells him about the funcitonality of the hearing aids and the complexities of the benefits per the Federal Govt....you can choose which hearing aid you would like........................................................................................................................................................................................umh

....umh ....if mum agrees....

So get used to it kids are KING!!!!

[Sunnyskies]

I think this will differ from school to school and state to state. My son's school talks with both of us, with him having an opportunity to express his views but with an acknowledgement that as his parent my voice counts. Same thing when we go to doctors.

[AndreaL]

That is what I like about education here, that each child is treated as an individual and his self worth and opinion are regarded as important.

Sorry May, I'm going to disagree with you on this one. It is the child going to school, not you, so they need to foster a relationship with the child. My kids school is great, the teachers are very open and communicative ( some of them are my friends outside of school)

What has discipline to do with creativity and diversity? Do we want a nation of automatons or creative, intelligent, expressive beings.

I'm not saying that children and people in general should not be polite and respectful, but that is the duty of the parent to teach, not the teachers, they are there to educate your child, you to mould their ethics.

Personally, I hated the school system in South Africa ( when I was at school anyway) everyone had to be the same, look the same and think the same, it fostered bullying, had no room for individuality or free thought.

But, at the end of the day, you as a parent have to be comfortable with the school your children attend, so I wish you luck in finding one that you like.

[Gizmo]

I would disagree too. My daughter goes to a government school in Perth and they are very strict - but in a good way. The kids are very disciplined and toe the line as there are consequences for even small infractions such as talking in class.

[Lyn]

I chose the wrong public school for my kids - it was in area and we could not afford private at the time.

Thank goodness my kids had learnt manners and respect from good public schools in RSA. Both the school and college they attended in Canberra were disappointments. My kids would record the goings on for me as I just couldnt believe what they were telling me.

Yes I know all schools are not like this, but I made the wrong choice. When we arrived in 2008 I remember asking for advice on the forum on the local school and got no replies - maybe people prefer to say nothing at all if it isnt something good. Working where I did for 1,5 years I met many teachers - and saw the behaviour of the kids from varoius schools - saw how the public schools handled the same situation as a private school - totally different.

As for kids dressing the same, short hair etc etc - I dont see what this has to do with education. In RSA I would get notices every few weeks to cut my sons hair - whats his hair got to do with his brain ? Now in Aus - he has rather long hair - which he ties in a pony tail for work.

I dont have a problem with teachers or doctors etc talking directly to my kids - it makes them feel more involved - I was a little peeved earlier this year tho when my son asked me to collect his Year 12 certifcate and the college refused to give it to me.

[AndreaL]

Just from my perspective, I will always disagree when people associate appearance with character.

My husband has long hair, tied in a pony, he has a tongue stud and a few tattoos, he is the kindest and one of the most intelligent men I have ever met.

Unfortunately, looking like this in RSA did cause a few problems ( we lived in Standerton for a while and that was an education in itself) but we believe that you should be true to yourself and people who judge on appearances are probably not the kind of people we would have anything in common with anyway.

I LOVE his long hair, how many men of 41 have thick healthy hair, no receding and only a few strands of grey at the temple.......there are men that would love to have hair like that ( and women too, me included) .

As far as schools go and having gone both private and state, it really is about your own requirements and what sits with your belief systems. Don't necessarily assume that private is better and state worse, it depends on the area and a number of other things and unfortunately you only find out by experience. Other people may have different experiences with the same school too.

I always say to people to not stress to much about schools, if you don't like one, move on. I do recommend volunteering at the school if possible and then you get a clearer picture of how the school is run and how they deal with issues like bullying etc.

But again, it is each to their own.

[Guest May]

I was upset when I wrote this post but I think I too have chosen the wrong school. its the only one(I think/ stand to be corrected) that doesnt have a uniform. I think they take expression too far. Once my kids leave school they can do what they choose, if they want to stop practicing their faith its their life but while school going age they should have good guidance and discipline. Based on the fact that some ppl have chosen to disagree with me tells me that I am not as open -minded as I need to be to have my kids at this school and that there are other schools that have the standards I might be more compatible to.

[Spider]

i think in Australia it is because they are more inclined to recognise children as individuals who too have an opinion and should have some choices...granted there are boundaries while still children such as your example

whilst they need our guidance and discipline, they should also not be forced to do stuff they do not want to where its not truly a necessity - i guess why they talk not just to parents but equally the children

i went to an art school in jhb, i was a dancer, we were all different - but hell we did well in school, many are successful, etc....it was still a great school even if "liberal" to some

i dont mean to say you are wrong here as you need to be happy too, but there is a difference as well between guiding and instructing

[Mikej]

At our kids' school they are quite strict on uniform and neatness and we value this as it is part of the discipline of the school.

Another thing we have noticed in Australia is that the kids are encouraged to be independant and responsible. When I forgot to pack my son's (kindy) water bottle the teacher would ignore me and tell him to make sure he rememebered to bring it every day. The attitude is that it is not up to the parents to baby our kids they must learn to be repsonsible and capable from an early age.

[Guest May]

Just to close with an update on my experience with the school.. I dont think tongue rings and coloured hair at an impressionable 12/13 and F* you at my kids is acceptable. As much as the school is liberal in new activities. But thats just me so I will be moving my kids and hoping for better.

[AndreaL]

I suppose it depends on the school rules, the girls at my daughters high school colour their hair and most 14 year old have tongue rings, some belly rings, but that is the parents decision as they can't get a piercing under 16 without a parents consent, swearing unfortunately seems to be par for the course, even when I was at a staid Afrikaans school in the 80's kids swore, but they would never swear in front of teachers, whereas kids here do.

Maybe you have to look at private or catholic schools in Perth, and when you have the initial meeting with the school ask them about discipline and uniform policies.

Good luck May, I hope you find a school you are happy with. My biggest issue with schools is bullying, particularly among girls.The rest I see as incidental and not likely to affect my childs wellbeing or education, but bullying does.

As someone who was bullied terribly at school in RSA it is my pet hate and probably why I am so tolerant of other things

[Kanniewagnie]

May, that is unacceptable behaviour, but unfortunately the world tends to 'demoralise' on most terrains. I trust that our kids will see and remember and follow our (parent's) example. I hope & pray with you that you'll find a better school and that your kids will stay strong and positive. I see it in the light of us coming from a land where things got so out of hand because of a lack of respect, (for others and for the laws of the school, road, country etc) and hope that our kids will value the new opportunity even more and hopefully influence their peers positively because they know first hand what the outcome of our future will be if they (the youth) tollerate such behaviour.

[Guest May]

Absolute disrespect, my children came out of primary school to high school. A lot of people here are not christian to call the Lord Saviour names and swear at him just shocked my children. Its one thing for the school to profess to be outgoing and free thinking but it seems to neglect to teach respect to anyone else.

[Guest May]

Just because I came across looking like a prude I want to add a note to this thread, I am a practicing catholic but when my son brought home an invitation this week to a birthday party being held at a cemetery late at night with a ghost tour I think I am on the right track. The child is allowed to express herself by dressing goth with the no uniform be creative regardless of respect attitude of the school. Not for us, I have two children out of primary school new to high school soaking up a new culture like sponges. A cemetery for heavens sake!!!!

[AndreaL]

It is a delicate balance to walk with kids that are used to the more conservative culture of RSA. I've found that we all want to protect our kids, that is our job, but we also have to allow them the skills they need to develop to work out what is right and wrong in this society too.

I have a friend whose 15 year old son is a bit of a terror, he smokes cigarettes, has the occassional drink and tears about town on his scooter, but other than that he doesn't do drugs or get mixed up in petty thievery etc. He was friends with a South African boy whose parents are ultra religious and ultra conservative, but the mother of this boy decided that my friends son was " the devil in her sons ear" and stopped the friendship.........unbeknown to her, her son is one of the most foul mouthed youths I have ever met, he is a known dope smoker and in fact his parents bust him last week for chroming ( getting high from aerosols) ...........I wonder who they will blame this time.

The boy is obviously rebelling against his strict parents. I'm not saying that the parents are wrong in their approach, they have the right to parent as they wish, but part of being a teenager is testing the boundaries and developing your own moral compass.

All kids are going to try alcohol, sex and drugs.....I have.....but I was able to discuss things with my parents rather than hide things from them.

My Dad always used to say that he couldn't stop me making the mistakes I needed to make to learn from them, but I should always know that he had big arms always ready to give me a hug and make me feel safe......basically that he would always be there no matter what.

May, I can see that you absolutely adore and want the best for your boys and I agree with you that they are just out of primary school and being exposed to so many new things, many not good. Just know that no matter how good the school and how strict the discipline, kids will still try things and we still love them, but need them to know what is not acceptable to us as parents.

I have a 14 year old daughter who has been bullied at school and has dreadfully low self esteem etc as a result....it is so painful to watch your kids go through these things.

BTW I would probably have been the type of kid that would have loved the idea of a party at a cemetery, but as a parent now I would want to know, will there be a responsible adult there and who is responsible for ensuring the kids all get home safely.

One good thing about the modern era, whatever they do gets plastered on Facebook, so they have very few secrets.

I also believe that South African kids do many of the things that Australian kids do, but the parents know less about what goes on in their lives than the parents here.......good or bad, I don't really know.

[Lyn]

May - is your son going to the party ? How old is he ?

[Guest May]

No. because he doesnt want to. 12 years old. He is a very free spirited child. Think I will stay a prude, at least he made it easy for me by declining. Shoo might not be that lucky next time. Well he has asked about dying his hair for school..... purple or blue.

Edited July 19, 2013 by May

[AndreaL]

Oh goodness. May, I wouldn't be letting him go either at twelve, 15 maybe, but with enough knowledge of who will be there etc.

Maybe things work differently in small communities, but we all seem to know one another and have strict expectations of the parents who will be hosting the sleepovers etc that our kids go to.

[Lyn]

Well in that case I am a prude too - 12 is still very young in my books.

I am glad tho that he decided for himself that he didn't want to go, and it didn't turn out into an argument between the two of you.

Good luck with the hair colouring. My kids have had all colours too.