Citizenship

[Gavin and Chantell]

Hi

Can anyone tell me how long you need to have permanent residence for before you are aloud to apply for citizenship please?

[Johan Swanepoel]

As far as I know it is 2 years.

Not sure if that is cumulative, so a 2 year period over 3 years would be valid?

[Bob]

At the mo. it's two years, but legislation is underway to bring it out to four years.

[kangaroo]

Hi Gavin and Chantell

Have a look at NB changes to citizenship laws, which was a previous thread on this topic.

[Gavin and Chantell]

I got granted a Regional sponsored migration visa (RSMS Visa),which at the time I thought was great....

But now that it got approved,I read that I can apply for citizenship after 5 years.....Hence the reason why I am asking....Had I known it was 5 years through an RSMS visa,I probably would not have gone for that option......?

[Rison]

Gavin and Chantell

If you already have a RSMS visa then you only have to live and work in Australia for two years from the date when the visa was granted and you will then be able to apply for Citizenship. I am on a RSMS and my approval letter from the Case Officer clearly states two years.

The five year period refers to the time within you should apply for Citizenship. The intention is that you cannot remain on Permanent Residence indefinitely.

So I really think you would be ok already having Permanent Residence and will only have to wait two years.

[ExASP]

Yes that is true....we were also on RSMS and we applied for citizenship after two years..if you get PR before those new laws come into working you still only have to have it for two years.

only if you get PR after that date will it be four years. uhh your PR date on RSMS only starts from when you enter Aus for the first time..not from the date the visa was granted.

For instance we had our visa from the beginning of August 04 and because we only entered the country two months later our two years started from the beginning of October. ALSO..we left the country for a month to visit family and that counted against us.

SO...you need to have PR AND you have to be in the country for 24 months altogether before you can apply for citizenship.

So in our case we had PR for 25 months before we could apply for citizenship.

Hope this helps

[Gavin and Chantell]

This makes me feel alot better....I definetly misread the letter.

Thank you for the re assurance.

I read the letter again,and what you all are saying above is correct.When I went to the Australian consulate yesterday in Auckland to have my PR visa inserted into my passport-he confirmed everything you all said.

Thank you!

[Riekie]

On his topic - and a bit off it I suppose - how long does it take South Africa to process your application to renounce your RSA citizenship? As I understand, you have to apply to have dual citizenship PRIOR to taking up citizenship in another country, but you also need to formally apply to renounce it if you don't want to retain it.....(even though not applying to have dual citizenship automatically cancels your RSA citizenship). All very confusing...

We will qualify for Aus Citizenship in 19 months..... Just wanne get my facts right in time...

[LiezelM]

Riekie, you can chat to SaSydneysider about this, they found out about all of this/or something similar, last year...

[SASydneysider]

how long does it take South Africa to process your application to renounce your RSA citizenship?

Hi Riekie,

We were told by the SA Government that it takes 6 - 9 months. Our experience is very different from this and we are still waiting!!!!

We were originally told by the SA High Commission in Canberra that they could not assist us with the renunciation and we had to do this via SAfrica. This has caused us major hassles, as you can imagine how difficult it is to get anything done in SAfrica if you are in Aus! Every time we submitted the pack of forms they required, they rejected them for petty reasons, or required different forms. Every time we spoke to a different person, something different was required - frustrating!

In the end, we became so desperate when they rejected our finger prints, we contacted Canberra again. This time around, Canberra was quite prepared to process our application. You will not believe how furious I was after we have battled and battled for ages to get things done through SAfrica! We also found out that we never needed to complete the pack of forms as requested by SAfrica. This process has certainly taught me patience!!!

The forms that need to be completed are BI 246 and BI 529. We obtained our forms from SAfrica, but I'm sure you can get them from the SA High Commission in Canberra. Their phone number is 02 6273 2424.

As I understand, you have to apply to have dual citizenship PRIOR to taking up citizenship in another country, but you also need to formally apply to renounce it if you don't want to retain it.....(even though not applying to have dual citizenship automatically cancels your RSA citizenship). All very confusing...

You are quite right in that you need to apply for dual citizenship before taking up another country's citizenship.

It is an offence in SAfrica to fly into and out of the country with another country's passport if you have not officially renounced your SAfrican citizenship or taken up dual citizenship. I know of people who have taken chances and got away with it, but I also know of others that have come short and are now battling to get back out of SAfrica.

Personally, I will not take this chance. I am not prepared to have my foreign passport taken away from me and then facing the possibility of not being able to get out of SAfrica again. We are over 45 and the risk is just too great!

SAS

[Riekie]

Wow! Thanks for all that! Looks like we're up for a very frustrating process..... I just wonder how long it will be before RSA prohibits anyone from leaving the country....... (a Berlin Wall type policy.....)

[Sam]

Deleted - question off topic

Edited March 21, 2007 by ~Sunflower~

[iaj]

I'm new to the forum but this thread caught my attention because we were approved for Aussie citizenship last week and now only have our ceremony to go to make it official.

My understanding is as follows: If you are currently a permanent resident, none of the changes apply to you. Anyone becoming a permanent resident after the date the changes were introduced will be impacted by the changes. The proposed changes include an increase from 2 years to 4 years living in Australia as a permanent resident. We had to deduct our overseas trips (including business trips) from our time since becoming PR.

We also applied for our Dual Citizenship through the SA embassy in Canberra (who have been excellent in all our dealings with them). They now process the Dual Citizenship applications in Canberra (they told us that they no longer have to send it back to SA) so we got ours back in about 6 weeks. What we have been told is that SA government is happy for people to have dual citizenship provided you have the dual citizenship letter and you always enter/exit SA on your SA passport (for tax purposes - prevents people cheating on the number of days out of SA requirement on your SA tax forms). If you are caught entering/leaving SA on your foreign passport, they will confiscate the foreign passport.

Probably repeated a lot of what has already been said, but just my 2c worth.

[Scotty]

If one does not apply to renounce SA citizenship BEFORE getting Australian citizenship then does SA citizenship just fall away or does one still have to apply to renounce it??

[SASydneysider]

If one does not apply to renounce SA citizenship BEFORE getting Australian citizenship then does SA citizenship just fall away or does one still have to apply to renounce it??

Hi Scotty,

After a period of time being out of SAfrica, your SAfrican citizenship does "fall away" in theory - Not sure what this time frame is. However, in the eyes of SAfrica, you have not formally renounced your SAfrican citizenship, therefore you will remain a citizen until you formally renouce your citizenship. Without formal renunciation of your SAafrican citizenship, you will remain liable for tax returns annually and you can not travel into and out of SAfrica with a foreign passport (even though your citizenship has theoretically "fallen away). As IAJ mentioned, your foreign passport will be confiscated if you are caught travelling into and out of SAfrica on a foreign passport (without official renunciation of SAfrican citizenship).

So to answer your question, you will have to formally renounce your SAfrican citizenship (if you do not apply for dual citizenship), whether you do it BEFORE or AFTER obtaining Aus citizenship does not really matter. If you want dual citizenship, you have to apply for this from SAfrica BEFORE getting Australian citizenship.

SAS

[saffer2]

Just a note on leaving SA on a foreign passport. No goverment has the right to confiscate a foreign passport thus not allowing you out of the country. Hope this helps.

[Riekie]

Just a note on leaving SA on a foreign passport. No goverment has the right to confiscate a foreign passport thus not allowing you out of the country. Hope this helps.

Thanks Reid. Though, there's a lot of things they don't have the right to do, but that hasn't stopped them in the past..... I would not take that chance.

[Marlene]

This is what my husband was told by his agent:

When you are successful with your visa application, you will be granted a three year provisional visa. Once you have complied with the visa''s conditions, and lived for at least 2 years and worked for a minimum of 12 months in the said area in Australia, you will become eligible to apply for either a permanent regional visa or permanent visa, depending on your eligibility.

On 1 March 2007, the Australian Citizenship Bill 2006 was passed by the Australian Parliament. The new legislation is likely to commence on 1 July 2007 on Australian Citizenship Application.

The new residence requirements for Australian citizenship will mean that applicants will need:

four (4) years lawful residence in Australia immediately prior to making an application for Australian citizenship with at least 12 months as a permanent resident, and

absences from Australia of no more than 12 months in total in the four (4) years prior to application, and no more than three (3) months in the 12 month permanent residency period prior to application.

[celeste]

I don't understand. Does Australia not allow people to have dual citizenship at all? For example the British consulate allows passport holders to have a maximum of three passports.

What are Aus rules regarding this because there may be no need to renounce SA citizenship? Of course some countries do make you renounce your previous citizenship but not sure if this is the case with Aus.

Regarding the letter...as far as I know it is no longer required. You just enter and leave SA with your SA passport and show the foreign passport on the other side.

[Enrica]

I don't understand. Does Australia not allow people to have dual citizenship at all? For example the British consulate allows passport holders to have a maximum of three passports.

What are Aus rules regarding this because there may be no need to renounce SA citizenship? Of course some countries do make you renounce your previous citizenship but not sure if this is the case with Aus.

Regarding the letter...as far as I know it is no longer required. You just enter and leave SA with your SA passport and show the foreign passport on the other side.

Dear Celeste

The Australians do allow you to have dual citizenship.They have no issue with you retaining your South African Citizenship.

Regarding the "Letter" you most definitly have to apply to the South African Home Affairs to have dual Citizenship.You have to reapply for dDual Citizenship every 5 years. By South African Migration laws, you must present your letter and arrive and depart South Africa on your South African Passport. When you have Australian Citizenship, they require by law that your enter and depart Australian on an Australian Passport.

[Bob]

The Australian gov't allways allowed citizens from a Commonwealth country with the Queen as the Head of State (e.g. United Kingdom, New Zealand, Canada) to take onboard Australian citizenship. This was because you swore allegiance to the same Head of State, namely the Queen, and you could travel on both passports.

It was always a legal obligation, however, that you present your Australian passport (if you hold Australian citizenship) on leaving and coming into Australia so that the gov't has a record of its people and their movements (for tax purposes, social security, etc.)

Australian born people who held Australian citizenship, were not allowed to hold another citizenship until a couple of years ago.

My wife in the mid 1980s was offered British citizenship, but the conditions were that she'd have to authorise the British gov't to act as the prime representative in overseas diplomatic situations on her behalf, thus informing the Australian authorities that she had acquired another citizenship (in this case, British) and that would immediately have annulled her Australian citizenship.

She wasn't prepared to do that, so declined the offer of British citizenship.

In recent times, there have been a number of talented and professional Australians that have lived and worked for several years overseas, notably Britain and America, where they've had to take out citizenship to stay there.

This presented problems with them coming back to work and live in Australia later on and the Australian gov't realised it was missing out on skilled and talented people being allowed to come back (they had to apply for work visas, etc.), so allowed Australian born citizens in 2005 onwards to acquire overseas citizenship and not renounce their status as an Australian citizen.

[rsteyn]

Hi All

Please can some one clarify this for me. With the new law on Citizenship coming into effect in the near future.

We where granted our visa on the 23 March 2007, but have not made entry yet. Does the old law of 2 years still apply for us or will be have to make entry before the new laws come into effect to fall under the old 2 year law?

Thanks

Rudi

[JJV]

We where granted our visa on the 23 March 2007, but have not made entry yet. Does the old law of 2 years still apply for us or will be have to make entry before the new laws come into effect to fall under the old 2 year law?

Hi Rudi

Have a look at this link on British Expats where this is being discussed at length.

You will see that you must be an Australian Permanent Resident at the time of the law coming into effect to fall into the "2 year category". Whether a validated PR visa (without being physically present in Oz at the time of the law coming into effect) would cut it is currently uncertain.