What Turned A Sceptic, The Decision To Go And The Journey That Follows.

[HadEnoughofJuju]

Hey Mrs Mupersan

I understand that the process is going to be tough and long and hard, I never really expected anything less, I know of other people that have gone through it so it wasn't really a surprise. As for getting angry at "everyone" the only people that I am angry with are the agents. From the beginning we made it very clear to them that we wanted the visa lodged before 30 June and they promised us that it would be. I don't think we had unrealistic expectations on them, if they knew that it was not possible then why on earth did they promise they could do it? It took them 60 days to "process" and do "legal checking" on our skills assessment file, before they submitted the application to AITSL. What on earth could take that long to check. AITLS are apparently one of the fastest when it comes to skills assessments (maximum of 10 weeks) if the agents had submitted the application (even 6 days) after they received it, which I could have done myself without the legal processing, we would have had a result by now and the visa application could have been lodged (yes I know let's not focus on the past because it hasn't been).

Yes I kick myself everyday for not having started this process sooner. If it was just me I would have done this 12 Years ago unfortunately it has taken my wife, the 12 years that we have been married, to come around and decide she wants to go to. I also regret ever spending so much money on a bunch of agents that promised us the world but delivered the moon. I truly wish we had discovered this forum before we decided to emigrate, I would have flown solo.

As for the financial situation, if we cut spending anymore than we have we are going to have to give up eating and as for saving well if there was any money left at the end of the month I would. We bought our house (a 61 square meter town house) in 2000 for a whopping R145000.00 in a good area in a complex (yes we struck a massive bargain) and yes over the years we have re bonded the house to do odds and ends but we are still paying way less than a rental would ever cost us so to sell and move would actually end up costing more. We (in my humble opinion) are doing everything possible to save and get out of where we are financially.

I really do appreciate all the support and advice that you as well as the rest of the forum have shown us through this process so far, I just wanted you to understand the situation we are in. I get really angry at people who make promises knowing that they will never be able to keep them. If I had unrealistic expectations it was because they were planted by the agents in an attempt to just get us to sign and pay their astronomic fees for an apparently overrated service.

Edited July 14, 2012 by HadEnoughofJuju

[Jacques Voogt]

Just read your journal and realized how fortunate we are. I too saw the effect of one or 2 bad choices in my life, like not studying when I should have. Hence the fact that we too have to make use of my wife's skills and experience to get to the future.

I'm of opinion that those left behind will be those that are either too old, those whom do not have any skills and those whom are blinded by the smoke and mirrors of having enough money to live in a secure complex and believing that SA's problems will not happen to them. Like the proverbial frog in the pot. It is very sad that their realization will only come when it is too late, when the pot is boiling and they are either too old or have to say farewell to a loved one, murdered for a cell phone. My heart goes out to those who simply do not have the means to secure a better future like my Parents and the unskilled who will be suffering the most.

I take my hat off for your endurance and belief that things will turn out well. If only everyone had such perseverance, we would be a great nation indeed.

Like you pointed out, having skills and a job in SA does not mean you have surplus money come end of the month. In fact, unless you are highly skilled like a doctor or CA or similar, in SA you will earn less than the minimum wage for anyone in Australia. And once you have cut costs you simply just can't cut any further as it is simply not possible. Even though we currently have more than we truly need in SA, I have calculated that we will be better off in Aus than in SA earning on the bottom scale of market related salaries. Take bricklayers for example, in fair demand in Aus, yet how much would you pay for one here in SA?

In SA the divide between the haves and the have-nots is growing at an alarming rate. Highly skilled professionals live in mansions, maintained by gardeners, domestics, nanny's and secured by guards, all whom are earning ridiculously low wages living in terrible conditions. It is no surprise that we have so many vagrants living in the veld around us. If they were to travel to work and back every day, they would quite literally not have anything left after paying for transport.

Even if one sends your kids to private school there is no guarantee that they will study hard and make it all the way through university and become one of the selected few in control of 'n big chunk of wealth. In SA your children can end up being one of those vagrants living in the veld. At least in Aus, those less fortunate to have the ability to learn some special skill will be able to make an acceptable living. Hence the reason why we all want to go there.

I also agree with you HEOJ, your agent dragged the process out and they could have lodged an application before 1 July which would have guaranteed you entry if processed in the average 1 to 2 years time. Now you have to wait and see. On the other hand, with teachers having an occupation ceiling 14 times bigger than ours (7000 primary + 7000 secondary) and this being the beginning of the new selection year, I am sure you will have a state nomination and invitation in the first month or two and your VISA will go a lot quicker than expected. So just hang in there, it will happen soon and you will not be disappointed by Aus. And keep following up with the agent.

We decided to go it alone as we had a straight forward application. Needless to say, if we had made use of an agent we would have probably been told that we had to score more on IELTS and we would have re-done it by now and most likely also have lodged before 1 July, now we still need to do the IELTS again and hope we are lucky enough to be selected in the 1000 occupational ceiling that we have. I would still recommend to anyone to make use of a reputable agent if you have the means. We also wasted some time to get all our documents in order for the skills assessment. Something I'm sure would have gone a lot quicker if we had a agent asking for it on a regular basis.

HEOJ, good luck and see you smiling on the other side.

[SA Aussie]

Hi There,

I have to agree here with Mrs Mupersan for yor own health and sanity. Sit back , chill and get your mind off this or you will give yourself a heart attack , go nuts or die of stress before you get here. When you get here you will see that the Aussies have no appreciation for our sense of urgency - it's like water off a duck's back. Good Luck.

[Donovan83]

Like you pointed out, having skills and a job in SA does not mean you have surplus money come end of the month. In fact, unless you are highly skilled like a doctor or CA or similar, in SA you will earn less than the minimum wage for anyone in Australia.

Well.. what I find most scary is that you needed to be highly skilled and finished being qualified about 3 to 5 years ago at least in order to make your skills and qualifications work for you if you are white. I finished my qualification at the end of last year and yes I had quite a lot of debt to pay (last payment at the end of this month! Yay!) I'm not exactly flying like I thought I would be - sure I could be better or worse off but I'm certainly not living it up like the newly qualifieds of prior years buying up houses and cars.

Yet, my black counterparts who are qualified the same as me are all driving big fancy cars, have all the best jobs and all seem to be flying so much higher. They pick and choose which positions they fill. Maybe they just have a bigger appetite for debt than I do but there is a clear difference in my opinion. You can even see this shift in the traffic in Sandton. There's me in my good enough skedonk (even if I was staying, I'd not replace my car since it's reliable, comfortable and gets me from A to B so why waste money on a new one just for the bling factor) surrounded by big long Mercs and BMWs and Audis... driven by people my age more or less... the only difference being their race. So what did I do wrong and what did they do right to be able to drive a 7 series so young? Or is it all debt.

I do not mean to sound ungrateful because I am fortunate in that I earn enough to cover modest living in a secure complex in a smallish apartment, buy groceries and pay off my debt. I worked when I was a student to save and buy things like furniture and stuff. But I'm certainly not financially free now like I had envisioned...

Anyway sorry to hijack the thread a bit, I just think that there's a wrong perception that life is easy if you have a "skill".

I think that HEOJJ has a point. His agents stuffed up and although he will probably still get a visa, it didn't have to be so uncertain.

[Jacques Voogt]

@Donovan83

Yes, totally agree. I have friends who studied engineering with me, unable to find jobs. And those that do find jobs, still struggle. Even those with honors degrees. Those that are doing well, are those with specific qualifications such as CA or Medical Doctor, or those with significant experience. Those with experience normally have acquired exceptional skills, which their employer cannot do without.

I cannot wait to read more progress from HEOJ and the success it will turn out to be.

Edit: added some punctuation...

Edited July 18, 2012 by Jacques Voogt

[HadEnoughofJuju]

Skills Assessment Complete

After much frustration and fighting and complaining and begging and pleading with the agents as well as complaining to MARA we finally got the skills assessment submitted on 29 May 2012. True to their word AITSL (the skills assessment authority for educators in Australia) completed the skills assessment exactly 10 weeks to the day it was submitted. There were thankfully no complications and everything that was required was submitted with the application and was apparently sufficient for them to make a decision. We were informed that the result would be posted and that was that, nothing about what the result was or when we would receive it or if there were any issues.

Before we could contact the agents to find out what was going on, we received an email notifying us that they (the agents) were not sure where the skills assessment result had been posted to. Our postal address was on the original application form and the agents had mentioned that they did inform AITSL that the results should be posted to them and not us but could not confirm where it was going to land up. I was understandably annoyed at this because if the results were on their way to us it would then be at least 3 weeks before it arrived in South Africa (if it arrived at all) and we would then have to send them back to Perth via courier to speed things up at our own expense so that the process could continue. I took it upon myself to send an email to AITSL explaining the incompetence of our agents and asked them to confirm the final destination of the results. Thankfully it was Perth and would take a maximum of 3 days to arrive. Relief does not begin to describe how happy that made me. At this stage we still had no idea what the assessment outcome was so the frustration merely continued.

We got even better news this morning from the agents to say that the skills assessment had arrived at their offices and that it is successful and that the EOI is being processed (it remains to be seen how long it will take them to submit something that has already been filled in and just needs to be submitted). Yippee forward movement at last.

[Donovan83]

The first thing I thought when I saw your skills assessment was positive was... F@(& YEAH! lol. Congrats... now the fun starts.

[HadEnoughofJuju]

@Donovan

Thanks, exactly the same thought went through my head and in the true tradition of IT Professionals (especially the true developer breed) I stood up, let the music play in my head and did my little happy dance. The only frustrating thing now is to have to wait and wonder exactly how long it will take the agents to submit the EOI and what trumped up "legal processing" are they going to have to do in order to actually click the submit button. I mean the entire EOI is already filled in and I sent them thew EOI reference number as well as the password all they need to do is literally hit the "submit EOI" button in the bottom right corner.

On that matter, Donovan (and anyone else that feels like chipping in at this stage) do you think I should accidentally hit the submit button and send an email to the agents explaining my dumb @@S move, apologize profusely for being an inconvenience and ask them to assist in correcting the details in the EOI (all of which are correct by the way, I spent a large amount of time checking and re-checking the information.) Just a thought and an attempt to speed things up.

[Donovan83]

@Donovan

Thanks, exactly the same thought went through my head and in the true tradition of IT Professionals (especially the true developer breed) I stood up, let the music play in my head and did my little happy dance. The only frustrating thing now is to have to wait and wonder exactly how long it will take the agents to submit the EOI and what trumped up "legal processing" are they going to have to do in order to actually click the submit button. I mean the entire EOI is already filled in and I sent them thew EOI reference number as well as the password all they need to do is literally hit the "submit EOI" button in the bottom right corner.

On that matter, Donovan (and anyone else that feels like chipping in at this stage) do you think I should accidentally hit the submit button and send an email to the agents explaining my dumb @@S move, apologize profusely for being an inconvenience and ask them to assist in correcting the details in the EOI (all of which are correct by the way, I spent a large amount of time checking and re-checking the information.) Just a thought and an attempt to speed things up.

Do it. Just remove your agents details from the EOI and put your own address as the one you want the invite to come to. Your agents are a waste of your time - this might be a good way of "firing them" without firing them.

[MarcK]

With all the non-performance you have experienced with your agent perhaps you should report them to MARA.. Keep in mind you will not be their only customer hence the slower pace... I remember being frustrated at times when our agent seemed to take aaagggeeesss at certain steps in the application process. Patience is indeed a virtue!!

Having said that I have no knowledge/understanding of the new visa application process other than it being similar to the Kiwi system. I am sure it will all work out well in the end!!!

[Toitjie]

But they are sitting with your visa application money....if you submit yourself wouldn't it give them some weird reason to say that that money is now forfeited because you circumvented them?

[HadEnoughofJuju]

With all the non-performance you have experienced with your agent perhaps you should report them to MARA.. Keep in mind you will not be their only customer hence the slower pace... I remember being frustrated at times when our agent seemed to take aaagggeeesss at certain steps in the application process. Patience is indeed a virtue!!

Having said that I have no knowledge/understanding of the new visa application process other than it being similar to the Kiwi system. I am sure it will all work out well in the end!!!

Hi MarcK

We have already gone down the road of reporting the agents to MARA, that's what got them moving with the skills assessment and I really don't feel like going down that path again. I think we may have annoyed them to the point that every communication has an undertone of annoyance and aggravation. I just want them to do the job that they have been paid to do. We did send a rather direct and honest email to the CEO of the company today to find out what their future plans are and how much time they plan on wasting. I understand that we are not their only customer, the problem I have is when people promise to do something within a certain time limit and then proceed to take twice as long and don't communicate during the process.

[HadEnoughofJuju]

But they are sitting with your visa application money....if you submit yourself wouldn't it give them some weird reason to say that that money is now forfeited because you circumvented them?

Hi Toitjie

Fortunately, by law, the visa application money has to be held in trust until it is paid over to DIAC when the final visa application is submitted. If for some reason they decide to fire us (before the visa application is submitted) they are obliged to refund that money. As for the rest of the fees that we paid, yup those we will have to forfeit.

[AllisonW]

I am really sorry that this process has turned out like this for you. It reminds me so much of my own painful process.

We used an agent in the beginning. In summary he cost me R25 000 and then skipped off to Canada and i did my own application and i finally got to Oz. But it cost me years and years.

I think you have the right to be angry, mad etc because it is clearly unfair and unethical. But i think that the message that others are giving is sound because i have been there. This will teach you patience and if it takes years you have to find a way to have a healthy functional day to day life while you are waiting to get to oz.

When our visa was hanging in the air and my life was consumed with oz i made a decision - i was still going to live in SA. I wasnt going to postpone every decision, every holiday, not plant a plant in the garden, not paint etc. I was going to embrace my life in SA until i had my visa and it kept me sane. It is so easy to become obsessed with this process but you have to breath and let it go. Work patiently and slowly on it but let it go.

Good luck!

[HadEnoughofJuju]

Filling in the blanks

After we go the skills assessment back we asked the agents when they planned on submitting the EOI. They duly informed us that there was no point in submitting the EOI with a meager 65 points and that we only had on e of two choices, one was for my wife to re-write the IELTS and score 8 or more for all four bands so that we could gain 10 extra points or apply to ACT for a state sponsorship and then apply for the 190(old 176) visa. My wife was not prepared to go and live in ACT because of the cold winters and the fact that our daughter coughs her way through the winter as a result of allergies and there was no budging on that either.

I wrote back to the agents and asked them what the disadvantages of submitting the EOI with only 65 points would be and their only comeback was that we would probably be looked over until we updated it to 75 points. My argument was that we definitely would not stage a chance of ever getting an invite if we didn't at least have an EOI in the system so I told them to submit the EOI anyway, they then agreed and said that they would work on it and let us know when it was submitted. Well, given their history and service tract record with us I then decided to create and fill in the EOI and leave it in draft mode and once that was done I sent the EOI login details to the agent and all they had to do was login, check the details and hit the submit button. We waited another three weeks after that and heard nothing so I decide that I would lend them a helping "finger" and hit the submit button, which I did on 22-08-2002 so that we would at least be in the list when the 1 September invitations were done. I knew deep down inside, after going through the SkillsSelect report from the previous round that the chances were slim that we would get an invite but I just felt that we needed to at least have an EOI in and submitted even if we were looked over during that round. I also figured the sooner the EOI was submitted the greater the chance we would stand if it came down to the difference in dates submitted with other EOI's with the same number of points. I didn't bother telling the agents because I figured that if we did get an invite I could email them and say I told you so and if we didn't we would still have a chance in the following rounds.

In the mean time we had re-booked the IELTS test for my wife and she was determined to get 8 or more for each band which she duly did and I am very grateful for. She wrote the IELTS on 25 August 2012 and we were meant to get the results back on 7 September 2012 and the actual test report form was meant to be in the post the following week Wednesday, so the plan was to upload a colour scan of the form for the agents and get them to update the EOI so that we would be in the running for the second round of invites scheduled to go out on 15 September 2012 at 0h00. Well things didn't quite go as smoothly as I hoped they would.

First the IELTS results were not available on line due to a "system failure" so we had no idea of how my wife had done or if we had to re-book a third IELTS and we all know that the longer you wait to book an IELTS test the faster the available dates become fully booked and the longer it takes to get the results back. Then we found out that the report forms had only been posted on 11 September 2012 instead of the previous Friday as had been promised by the British Council, I got rather depressed and angry about that because it meant that even if my wife had gotten the scores we needed for the extra points it meant that would not be able to have the EOI updated and would again have to wait for the next round of invites which are scheduled for 1 October 2012, at this stage I was at the point of oh well this will never happen and everything is working against us to keep us here. I will also add that at this stage I was also depressed about the fact that I had to quit the baseball team I had just joined and had started practicing with because we just don't have the spare cash at this stage to pay for things like team clothing and equipment and all the other things that go along with a grown mans sport (if you know what I mean)

My lovely wife diligently went to the post office on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday afternoon after work each day just in case the test report form magically appeared in the post box and imagine my surprise and joy and all the other emotions that I went through when at around 15:30 the BBM with the test report form number in it came through. I immediately logged into the EOI and updated the IELTS information and resubmitted it and finally we had the magical 75 points that the agents said we needed. I also sent the agents a message that we had the test report form and had taken the liberty of updating the EOI for them. I figured that if I had to wait for them to do it I would wait until next year, we still have not had a response to that email.

Somehow or the other I seemed to think that the invites were scheduled for 0h00 on the 14th and not 15th so I rushed my ass off to get the EOI updated before 16:00 our time which is 0:00 in Canberra, an then about 10 minutes later read on the SkillsSelect site that it was 15 September an was both disappointed and relieved that I had another 24 hours before the automated invites went out.

Friday afternoon 16:00 came and I decided to log into the SkillsSelect site and check if we had received an invite and when I saw that there was nothing I was rather disappointed and disheartened and figured that we would never get a visa at this rate. How many points are we going to need to get an invite and how long would it take were the thoughts going through my head. I just carried on working and figured that there was no point in me logging back in later and checking. At 16:15 I had decided that I had enough of work and stated checking the forum for any new posts, Facebook and email when I decided that I would login to SkillsSelect one last time and check again just in case there was something and WOW I nearly fell off my chair with shock and surprise when I saw that the status had changed from submitted to invited and that there was an "apply visa" button next to the 189 visa. I immediately sent my wife a BBM giving her the good news and spent the next 45 minutes giggling like a little school girl out of sheer shock, surprise, relief and joy. It's taken 2 days for the reality to sink in that we have been given the golden ticket and that we can choose where we want to stay and where we want to work and there are no strings attached.

One thing that I have learned from this experience so far is that it's mine and my families futures that are at stake here, don not leave it up to someone else to fix, change or better on your behalf, they don't care about it as much as you do no matter how much you pay them.

[Bronwyn&Co]

Like like like!

[AllisonW]

Now all the real hard work and craziness begins! What good news. Good luck!

[Annelie Siemens]

On my way! That is such awesome news! Wow!!, i think there is a couple of people here that will be popping champers bottles, the day you post - Got it.

Enjoy.

[HadEnoughofJuju]

This waiting is killing me

It's has now been 51 days (yes it's been that long and yes I'm counting) since we received the invitation to submit an application for a 189 PR visa and the agents have still not done anything remotely constructive. Exactly how long does it take to submit an online visa application? Surely not more than 24 hours. Oh (***sarcasm alert***) I forgot agent have to do "legal processing" on the application before they process it. I will never in my life trust an agent, whether it be an estate, migration or any other agent they are all (***generalisation alert***) a bunch of shark out to make money.

I have sent the "or else" email, the "you'd better get you backside into gear" and "be ware we won't let this one rest" emails if they even think about missing the 14 November deadline. They are going to wish that they never met me, and no that's not a threat of violence that's a promise that I am going to drag their reputations through the mud and report them to every possible regulating authority I can find in Australia that will listen.

As soon as that visa is lodged and I have confirmation from DIAC and a login and password for the online visa I am going to fire there asses (sorry Jordy, I know you said I should but there are enough agents on this forum who I am sure that for a fee will help sort out any problems after the fact). I have just so had enough of this crowd that its not funny anymore.

If this is meant to build character then I have an awesome character.

Edited November 5, 2012 by HadEnoughofJuju

[Fish]

...If this is meant to build character then I have an awesome character.

[OubaasDik]

Hi HEOJ

Nice post - awful subject. Those agents need an AAK - really.

You've been very patient.

[Sunnyskies]

Just stick to them like a dirty rash until they do their job.

[LizM]

gggggrrrrrrr I can't imagine how frustrating and nerve-racking this must be!

[Jordy]

Feeling terrible for you guys.

[HadEnoughofJuju]

Hey there and thanks for the support guys and girls we really appreciate it.

Just an update, we sent them a communication at around 11am Perth time this morning informing them that they had until the close of their business day today to complete the submission of the visa and forward the DIAC confirmation, proof of payment and e-Visa login details to us or we would go ahead with the lodging of complaints against ASA and the migration agents with various agencies in Australia.

We got a very flustered response of "we have been trying the whole day to lodge the visa but have been unable to do so because the e-Visa site is down and that the technicians are working on it" (I've heard that one before, in fact I've used it myself as I am a web developer/"technician"). After checking the SkillSelect site it turns out that the site is down and that it will also be down for maintenance tomorrow.

When I got home this afternoon I penned (or rather keyboarded) another email in which we told them "thank you for the response but we feel that 52 days was more than sufficient time to lodge a visa" and we have extended the deadline until Friday 9 November because of the "outage" as they called it of the e-Visa site, far too kind I know.

This time, if they fail to lodge the visa before Friday, 17:00 Perth time, I will throw the entire library at them. I have threatened to not only report the registered migration agent to MARA but to also lodge complaints with the Australian Bar Association and the Western Australia Department of Commerce.

These people are proud of the fact that they are of South African origin, the only thing they got from this place was the utter lack of customer service, come Monday morning, if this visa is not lodged with confirmation from DIAC, these agents are going to wish that they had never taken our money and taken us for a ride like this.

I do not believe in idle threats, if I say I am going to do something, no matter how much I may have to inconvenience myself (and believe me laying complaints is an inconvenience) I will do it. I just don't think that these people are taking us seriously though and are going to get a nasty shock next week when they start getting contacted for their statements in this saga.

Edited November 6, 2012 by HadEnoughofJuju