Spoken by Great men

[KangaRoux]

Got this mail, dont know how true it is but it sounds cool anyway!

SPOKEN BY GREAT MEN

"Give me 20 divisions American soldiers and I will breach Europe. Give me 15 consisting of Englishmen, and I will advance to the borders of Berlin. Give me two divisions of those marvellous fighting Boers and I will remove Germany from the face of the earth."

Field Marshal Bernard L. Montgomery, Commander of the Allied forces during WWII.

"The Americans fight for a free world, the English mostly for honour and glory and medals, the French and Canadians decide too late that they have to participate. The Italians are too scared to fight; the Russians have no choice. The Germans for the Fatherland. The Boers? Those sons of bitches fight for the hell of it."

American General, George "Guts and Glory" Patton

"Take a community of Dutchmen of the type of those who defended themselves for fifty years against all the power of Spain at a time when Spain was the greatest power in the world. Intermix with them a strain of those inflexible French Huguenots, who gave up their name and left their country forever at the time of the revocation of the Edict of Nantes. The product must obviously be one of the most rugged, virile, unconquerable races ever seen upon the face of the earth. Take these formidable people and train them for seven generations in constant warfare against savage men and ferocious beasts, in circumstances in which no weakling could survive; place them so that they acquire skill with weapons and in horsemanship, give them a country which is eminently suited to the tactics of the huntsman, the marksman and the rider. Then, finally, put a fine temper upon their military qualities by a dour fatalistic Old Testament religion and an ardent and consuming patriotism. Combine all these qualities and all these impulses in one individual and you have the modern Boer."

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

[Orion25]

Very good KangaRoux,

Makes one think doesn't it, this land makes one hardy and able to withstand almost anything.

So immigration should be a sinch if only.

I enjoyed your post thanks

T

[AndreaL]

And here is the rest of that quote Arthur Conan Doyle- The great Boer War

[KangaRoux]

And here is the rest of that quote Arthur Conan Doyle- The great Boer War

This is a great read, thanks for that!

[AndreaL]

This is a great read, thanks for that!

I know, I am engrossed. How well written it is, not like a traditional history book. This will give me more understanding of the Boer war than any amount of dry history lessons.

[Mikej]

This will give me more understanding of the Boer war than any amount of dry history lessons.

Hi AndreaL

Don't take this the wrong way but Arthur Conan Doyle's account of the 'Great Boer War' as he calls it, cannot be considered a definitive work on the Boer War. It is a limited chronicle, limited by Conan Doyle's personal cultural perspective and the information available at the time. In his defence he wrote his book within months of the war ending, in about 1902 and a lot more information has come to light since then.

Even so it is a great read and even though Conan Doyle is unequivocal as to the status of the Boers as enemies of the Empire he obviously admires them, he credits them with chivalry and confers on them that greatest of English honours, gentlemen.

His account of the war as it was fought by the English is probably reasonably accurate. He was personally in ZA and travelled with parts of Roberts' armies as they progressed through the Orange Free State and into the Transvaal from the Cape.

Having said that we cannot ignore that history has shown his opinions to be defective in many aspects. Researchers have discovered correspondences and diaries as late as the 1980's that have shed new light on the war. Pakenhams book on the Boer War is more accurate from an historical point of view.

The single most important error is that Conan Doyle blamed the Boers for starting the war (it is true that Kruger was the first to declare war but by then the Boers had been squeezed into a corner and the English Armies were already on their way). The Empire was really tricked into the war by Milner (another of histories war criminals) who desired and fomented the war and even though a conspiracy has never been proven, the mining industrialists, especially Beit and Rhodes worked in parallel with Milner to this end.

Briefly; there came a time when the Empire made certain demands for the rights of the foreigners (uitlanders) in the Transvaal, Kruger refused and it went from there. Over time Salisbury moderated the demands of the Empire and Kruger offered a few minor concessions but it was never enough.

When war seemed inevitable Kruger acceded to all demands in order to avert a war. This was a major setback for Milner and correspondence shows that he was quite depressed by this twist. His response was to keep Kruger's offer secret, he never informed Salisbury. You must imagine what Kruger was thinking, he had acceded to all demands and received no response at all. All he saw was the continued arrival of soldiers and weapons at Durban and Cape Town. This is Milner's great crime. Conan Doyle thought very highly of Milner but he could not have known what Milner had done.

At the time of the war the OFS and Tvl were recognised by England as sovereign and independant states. England granted this status on them at (I think it was called the Sand River Convention) around 1850. They were pastoral lands with no interest or value to the Empire. It is no coincidende the Boer War was instigated after gold was discovered on the Rand. Gold motivated Beit and Rhodes while Imperialism drove Milner.

Conan Doyle's other great weakness is one typical of the cultural arrogance of the time. In his book he often expresses his genuine bewilderment that the Boers should not want to be part of the monarchy. He seems to think Kruger has somehow tricked the Boers into thinking they are better off without the Queen and in spite of all standing conventions he repeatedly confers on England her suzerainty over the OFS and especially the Tvl.

My final point relates to the numbers of soldiers on each side. Conan Doyle repeatedly compares numbers and suggests that the Boer "soldiers" outnumber English "soldiers" at the start of the war. He fails to adequately point out that almost all the Empires soldiers were professional soldiers and that almost all the Boers were farmers. If memory serves I think the Tvl had an army of about 2,000 at the start of the war.

For a better 'understanding' I suggest a broader range of authors on the subject.

By the way this is the same Conan Doyle who wrote Sherlock Holmes.

Apologies for the long post.

Michael

[Toitjie]

I am also fascinated by our past, the wars, the history, although I hate history books. i prefer learning history in a novel I know, not the most scientific way

But one book that I absolutely enjoyed is James Michener's "The Covenant" which is about early South AFrican, the Afrikaner, the French Huguenots, how our language came to be, why the settlers left the Cape, the ensuing fights with tribes, the English, apartheid, all of it. The good, the bad and the ugly.

It was an awesome book to read.

[Alida]

What an absolute fascinating thread, with great posts and reading. My overwhelming thought throughout was: And how far we've fallen ! So little bravery, self respect, self esteem, so little love and regard left for our own. How we've been broken and how we've broken ourselves down. We're in a surely pitiable state ! And it's also a sorry state that whenever anyone of us would just mention the idea of stirring the lost pride of this nation, everybody around, and ourselves, pound the idea into the ground as if it was declared to be anathema. Just think about the song of Bok van Blerk - absolutely NO reference to hate speech against anyone, just remembrance of a proud nation that once was true to itself and look how much aggressive attacks was launched against it.

If I read posts like the above, I really mourn for the loss of a beautiful heritage.

It's almost like: "It could have been love, but it's over now".

[AndreaL]

By the way this is the same Conan Doyle who wrote Sherlock Holmes.

No offence Mike. I did think that Doyle's view would be eurocentric anyway.......... but it is so well written.

[Mikej]

No offence Mike. I did think that Doyle's view would be eurocentric anyway.......... but it is so well written.

Hello AndreaL

I agree it is well written and gripping, I was not trying to make a point about him being the author of Sherlock Holmes, it just seems so incongruous that he should have been the author of both these books.

It would be difficult to find two works more disparate than The Great Boer War and Sherlock Holmes, one a celebrated novel set in the dark alleys of London and the other an historical chronical recorded on the open veld of the OFS and Tvl.

It is a testiment to the man that he was so successful at both.

Michael