Skills Assessment: IT vs. Accounting

[TjaartvdW]

I have a Bachelor in Accounting Science degree but moved into IT 8 years ago where I've since functioned as a SAP R/3 Applications Consultant in the area of Finance and Controlling.

The 'problem' is that my degree (in Accounting) does not match my work experience (in IT) and as a result the ACS (Australian Computer Society) would want me to complete a RPL (Recognition of Prior Learning) which is a very extentsive layout of my last 8 years' work experience. This is obviously not ideal if compared to the fact that had I had an IT releted degree, it would be a case of submitting the certified documentation and having my qualification (hopefully) positively assessed.

My question (and request for your assistance/input) is, that I noticed that the occupation "Accountant" is both on the Skilled migration list (60 points) as well as on the MODL (Migration Occupations in Demand) list (I think this is an extra 10 points or so - and I need them !) Thus, seeing as I have a South African degree in Accounting (BCompt), which I assume is comparable to an Australian equivalent, as well as 8 years experience on IT systems working in the area of Finance:

1) Do you think that I can get my qualification assessed wtih the NIA (National Institute of Accountants) as opposed to the ACS ?

2) If yes, would this South African BCompt degree hold up to an Australian equivalent ?

3) If yes, and I eventually get given a Australian visa, would this in any way count against me if I then applied for a position in the IT area as a SAP R/3 Applications Consultant (Finance)...?

Any relevant input, either from facts which I'm missing or personal experience would be greatly appreciated

Thanks,regards

Tjaart

[Dedrei]

Hi Tjaart

Ek is Accountant hierso in Aus en as jy 'n assessment doen deur NIA, ICAA of CPA dan vergelyk hulle net jou graad met die oz ekwivalent. Hulle kyk nie eintlik eers na ervaring nie.

Hierso is die requirements

The curriculum of your qualification/s must be comparable to the curriculum of an Australian Bachelors degree in 9 of the following 12 areas:

Basic Accounting

Cost and Management Accounting

Financial and Corporate Accounting

Auditing

Current Accounting Issues (standards and theory)

Business Finance

Introductory Law (including contract law)

Economics

Statistics

Computer Information Systems

Australian Taxation Law

Australian Company Law

Kyk gerus hierso vir meer info http://www.nia.com.au/category.asp?categoryID=923

Klink vir my na 'n beter idee as om die IT route te volg.

Groete

[TjaartvdW]

Hi Dedrei

Ja, dit is presies waarop ek ook afstuur. Ek het die dokument van die ACS deurgewerk en hulle het 3 sections:

kategorie a) Graad ekwivalent + iets soos 4 jaar ondervinding

kategorie 'b') Diploma ekwivalent + 6 jaar ondervinding

en dan as jy nie a) of 'b') het nie (maw - EK !)

kategorie c) RPL met 8 jaar se gedokumenteerde 'wat het ek alles geleer'...

Daarteenoor blyk dit (soos jy se^) op die NIA se site dat hulle slegs jou graad assess, en as dit met hulle grade ooreenstem (i.e. die 12 kategoriee wat jy gelys het) dan keur hulle jou Skills Assessment goed...

Ek is net bang dat NIA dit goedkeur, maar as ek dan my Immigration application indien, waar een van die requirements is "that you have been in paid employment in 'a' skilled occupation for at least 12 of the 18 months immediately before applying" - dat hulle my sal afskied en se^ my Skills assessment (Accountant) stem nie ooreen met my laaste 12 maande (of laaste 8 jaar) se werksondervinding nie... aan die ander kant, my werksondervinding is in IT, maar dit is gebaseer op die finansie"le area

Thanks vir jou hulp en dit begin al hoe meer vir my na 'n beter idee klink as om die IT roete te volg

Groete uit SA

Tjaart

PS: Ek het 5 jaar klerkskap by 'n ouditfirma - dit tel natuurlik ook darem iets.

[sebr]

I have a Bcompt and got a positive skills assessment through CPA, they only look at your degree not work experience. You will have a problem with DIMA though with the work expereince issue. I think ACS is probably the best route as Computing Professional - specialising in SAP 2231-79 which is also on the MODL.

[JacoE]

hi,

Ek het 'n BComm (rek) graad en het die eerste 3 jaar na studies sa rekenmeester gewerk, maar die lasate 13 as programmerder (sonder om 'n formele kwalifikasie klaar te maak) en soos ek die inligting tot my beskikking verstaan moet ek deur ACS 'n RPL doen, en dan as programmerder aansoek doen by DIMA. So ek is geneig om saam te stem met 'sebr' so opinie.

jaco

[Alwyn]

Sover ek verstaan word jy beperk tot werk in die kategorie waarvoor jy aansoek doen. So as mens wil aanhou in IT dan moet jy die ACS roete gaan. Dis hoorse so ek kan verkeerd wees.

[sebr]

I think it depends on what visa you are on, if you have a 136 it makes no difference what field you work in when you get to Oz. If the only job you can find is packing shelves then so be it. However what is important is that you currently work in the field of the occupation you are applying under.

[JJV]

Ek is net bang dat NIA dit goedkeur, maar as ek dan my Immigration application indien, waar een van die requirements is "that you have been in paid employment in 'a' skilled occupation for at least 12 of the 18 months immediately before applying" - dat hulle my sal afskied en se^ my Skills assessment (Accountant) stem nie ooreen met my laaste 12 maande (of laaste 8 jaar) se werksondervinding nie... aan die ander kant, my werksondervinding is in IT, maar dit is gebaseer op die finansie"le area

PS: Ek het 5 jaar klerkskap by 'n ouditfirma - dit tel natuurlik ook darem iets.

Tjaart

I believe your best option is to get an Accountant assessment (requirements as per Dedrei's post) and make sure you comply with "Recent work experience" requirement as per booklet 6. This could be in any skilled occupation listed on the SOL (for at least 12 of the 18 months immediately before you apply). This is where your SAP experience will count.

You may have more difficulty in getting the ACS assessment on SAP because of the burden of RPL considering that you're not a Computer Science graduate.

By the way, the 5 yr articles unfortunately does not count anything when applying for the accountant ASCO job-code. The skills assessment is purely on the academic stuff.

Edited November 10, 2006 by JJV

[JacoE]

If you want to claim points for a MODL occupation, you had to have worked in that occuation in

for 12 of the last 18 months. You clearly cannot get that as an accountant. SAP programming is also on the MODL.

jaco

[TjaartvdW]

If you want to claim points for a MODL occupation, you had to have worked in that occuation in

for 12 of the last 18 months. You clearly cannot get that as an accountant. SAP programming is also on the MODL.

jaco

Hi Jaco

Jy is heeltemal reg, SAP is op die MODL, maar so is Accounting ook. Maar jou stelling hierbo is egter nie heeltemaal akkuraat nie. Ek verwys na die "General Skilled Migration Booklet" bladsye 8 en 27 respektiewelik.

Bl 8 onder die afdeling "Recent Work Experience" lees as volg:

"If your nominated occupation is worth 60 points (wat beide 2231-79 = SAP consultant asook 2211-11 = Accountant is) you must provide evidence that you have been in paid employment (en hier kom dit nou...) in ""a"" skilled occupation for at least 12 of the 18 months immediately before applying.

Bl 27 onder die afdeling "points for Specific Work Experience" lees as volg:

"If your nominated occupation is worth 60 points under skill (2231-79 en 2211-11 is albei) and you have worked in your nominated occupation (en hier kom dit weer...) or a ""closely related 60 point occupation" for at least 3 of the 4 years immediately before you apply... (dan kry jy 10 punte op jou aansoek, en derhalwe kwalifiseer jy in die 'work experience' afdeling...)

Nou hierdie is alles baie goeie teorie, reguit uit die Aussies se aansoekvorms & handleidings, maar die feit is, ek sal moet bewys dat, indien ek my 'skills' onder 2231-11 positief laat 'assess' en ek my hoof aansoek indien onder 2231-79, dat 2231-79 'closely relate' aan 2211-11 wat my werk aanbetref.

Ek hoop ten minste so !

Nou ja, dit is die hele storie van my kant af. Ek sal graag almal se opinies en ondervinding tov die 'topic' wil hoor.

Baie dankie

Tjaart

[TjaartvdW]

Deleted - was dieselfde as vorige 'post' (sorry)

Edited November 10, 2006 by TjaartvdW

[JacoE]

Tjaart,

Verstaan ek reg?

1. Jy wil jou Skills Assessment as 'accountant' te doen om sodoende die 15 punte vir MODL te kry? asook die 60 punte vir jou 'nominated occupation'.

Is jou graad al wat jy nodig het om 'n positiewe skills assessment te kry?

2. Eis die 'Recent work' experience se 10 punte as SAP Consultant?

Hoe bewys jy die recent work experience voldoen aan die standaarde sonder om deur ACS te gaan, of dink jy verwysingsbriewe/kontrakte/CV sal genoeg wees.

3. Die probleem sal seker wees om specific experience te eis: SAP Consulting more or less equal to Accounting?

Ek moet se, ek het nie eers hierdie scenario probeer oorweeg nie. As dit enigsins moontlik is sal ek dit self wil doen want dit is die enigste manier waarop ek 120 punte kan kry vir 'n 136, maar sjoe, dit klink darem snaaks ('mind you - there are a few other baffling things with these visas - like getting a temporary regional visa as a programmer and being able to renew it simply by proving that you worked for a year (even as a car washer) or even better, by having the possibility of having it renewed simply by proving that you tried to get a job !!)

Maar ek sal regtig van iemand wil hoor wat 'inside info' het of dit reeds so gedoen het.

Jaco

Edited November 13, 2006 by JacoE

[TjaartvdW]

Verstaan ek reg?

1. Jy wil jou Skills Assessment as 'accountant' te doen om sodoende die 15 punte vir MODL te kry? asook die 60 punte vir jou 'nominated occupation'.

Ja, ek wil my 60 punte vir 'skill' doen as ACCOUNTANT, soos per die "Skilled Occupation List"

Is jou graad al wat jy nodig het om 'n positiewe skills assessment te kry?

Ja, blykbaar. Ek het 'n girl van die ACS ge-mail en sy het dit bevestig.

2. Eis die 'Recent work' experience se 10 punte as SAP Consultant?

Jy kry 10 punte vir "Specific work experience" - en dit gaan ek probeer om dit onder kode 2231-79 (Computing Professional - specialising in SAP) te kry.

Hoe bewys jy die recent work experience voldoen aan die standaarde sonder om deur ACS te gaan, of dink jy verwysingsbriewe/kontrakte/CV sal genoeg wees.

Jy het basis 2 dinge nodig:

1. Skills assessment - ek beplan om dit by NIA te doen wat SLEGS na my graad kyk (hulle kyk nie na work experience nie - maar die ACS kyk na jou graad en work experience)

2. Jou hoof aansoek wat jy by DIMA indien - hulle kyk of jy die nodige 50 of 60 punte by die relevante Skills assessment center gekry het (in my geval hopelik die NIA) en dan is daar 'n deel van hulle aansoek vorm waar jy jou specific work experience moet invul (ek glo dit is waar hulle my die ander 10 punte sal toestaan)

Die 15 punte vir Occupation in Demand (MODL) is addisioneel, en daar sal ek dit op dieselfde kode moet eis as wat ek my "Specific work experience" eis, maw 2231-79

3. Die probleem sal seker wees om specific experience te eis: SAP Consulting more or less equal to Accounting?

Ek glo nie, omdat dit presies is wat ek al die laaste 8 jaar doen, glo ek daar is 'n sterk verband tussed my kwalifikasie (Accountant) en my ondervinding (SAP consultant: FI/CO). Maar op die ou end is dit die DIMA wat ek moet 'convince'

Ek moet se, ek het nie eers hierdie scenario probeer oorweeg nie. As dit enigsins moontlik is sal ek dit self wil doen want dit is die enigste manier waarop ek 120 punte kan kry vir 'n 136, maar sjoe, dit klink darem snaaks ('mind you - there are a few other baffling things with these visas - like getting a temporary regional visa as a programmer and being able to renew it simply by proving that you worked for a year (even as a car washer) or even better, by having the possibility of having it renewed simply by proving that you tried to get a job !!)

Maar ek sal regtig van iemand wil hoor wat 'inside info' het of dit reeds so gedoen het.

Jaco

[JJV]

3. Die probleem sal seker wees om specific experience te eis: SAP Consulting more or less equal to Accounting?

Hi Jaco & Tjaart

It is indeed possible to get an "Accountant" 2211-11 assessment (to get the MODL points) and also get the "Specific work experience" (SWE) points by working on ERP systems (SAP, Oracle & PeopleSoft).

DIMA look at this (amongst others) to determine whether something is closely related or not for SWE purposes. You will find the following in there :

"may advise on the selection and application of computer-based accounting systems"

The latter could be proven by your job description and employer reference. You don't necessarily need an ACS assessment for it.

Edited November 14, 2006 by JJV

[JacoE]

Johan, Tjaart,

Thanks for the discussion we had at the coffee club - great to meet you guys.

I am now convinced that the accounting route is the best to take in my case as well. I read through the 136 section on DIMAs website again and have to agree with everything you said (can't atually argue with you Johan, can I, seeing as how you have had your visa approved in this manner.)

Furthermore, I quote the next section from page 8 of booklet 6 (136 'manual'). It is obvious to me from this that the 'Additional Requirements' listed on the points list page to not necessarily refer to the same occupation you nominate to get the points in the 'points test' section.

"For certain occupations a longer period of specific work experience is required to obtain

a suitable skills assessment (eg. Manager). If you nominate a 40 or 50 point occupation

and are relying on a registered occupation usually worth 60 points (eg. Pharmacist) to

meet the ‘recent work experience’ requirement ...."

And for the specific work experince you get the 10 points for working in the same or closely related occupation, but even you have only worked in another occupation on the SOL you still get 5 points.

I have decided to also apply for a 136 using my BComm to pass the points test and get the MODL points. (I have actually performed the dual role of accountant and programmer the last year.)

I cannot tell you how glad I am that this particular question was posted.

Jaco

[rsteyn]

Hi Tjaard and JacoE

I am so glad that you guys can do it this way makes live allot easier. Good luck to all of you going this route and may your application be processed quickly and successfully.

Cheers

Rudi

[TjaartvdW]

Hi

For the sake of completion I'm posting the information which JJV sent me via Personal Message on the forum for all to see - as per our discussion at the coffee club

Tjaart

-------------

"Hi Tjaart

Nee, ek gee glad nie om as jy vra nie. Ek het presies dit gedoen en my 136 visa is in Jan 2006 so goedgekeur - Accountant 2211-11 met die laaste 4 jaar betrokke by PeopleSoft (PS) implementerings projekte en onderhoud daarvan. Lg was natuurlik nodig om die "specific work experience" punte ook te kry om 120 te haal.

'n Goeie vriend van my het ACS skills assessment roete aangepak met baie meer PS ervaring as ek. Natuurlik om die MODL vir PS te benut. ACS het die NEC (not elswhere classified) assessment gegee (sonder vermelding vna die PS spesialisasie) ten spyte van die klem op PS ervaring regdeur sy aansoek. Nou stoei hy al amper twee maande met 'n appél. Daarsonder kry hy nie die MODL punte nie.

As ek reg gelees het sien ek jou DV Saterdag by Irene. As daar iets is waarmee ek dalk nog mee kan help laat weet gerus.

Groete

Johan"

----------------

Also some more valuable information which JJV has sent me (thanks Johan !)

http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/De...97?OpenDocument

Tjaartvdw

[Gee]

Hi there Tjaart,

Just read this entire thread....

I'm in a very similar situation to you..

completed my B.Compt and B.Compt Honours via UNISA, practised as a Financial Controller for a few years and then migrated into the IT arena and have held various positions as a Business Analyst, Project Managner and JD Edwards consultant all over the past 7 years.

When my family and I applied for our AUS visa's and PR my migration agent looked at going the Accounting/Finanace route or the ITroute and in the end I scored far better along the IT route as a Managment Consultant as my mix of IT consulting and implementation skills were more recent than my Accounting skills. I last practised as an Accountant in 1998 and the Accounting assessment body obviously wanted more recent skills in the this profession.

I could have gone the Accounting route but as is required re Accountant and CA's from SA would have had to have written the various exams to align with the Australian Accounting , Tax and Law standards and I was not happy with that.

It worked fantastically for me as my assessment by VETASSSES, who score and assess Management Consultants and IT skills, came out tops and I also got my PR..all within 6 months.

My family and I are moving over mid 2007

I am currently doing major research into IT and associated positions in Australia, particularly Melbourne.

From my research to date experinced IT skills are really in demand in AUS. Positions re good,solid Business Analyst and Project Managers particularly.

If you would like to PM I can share some good inputs with you as to what I have learnt so far.

Gavin

Edited November 20, 2006 by Gee

[TjaartvdW]

....and in the end I scored far better along the IT route as a Managment Consultant as my mix of IT consulting and implementation skills were more recent than my Accounting skills. I last practised as an Accountant in 1998 and the Accounting assessment body obviously wanted more recent skills in the this profession.

I could have gone the Accounting route but as is required re Accountant and CA's from SA would have had to have written the various exams to align with the Australian Accounting , Tax and Law standards and I was not happy with that.

Hi Gavin

Must admit I have not consulted with any migration agents, but have spoken to a number of people, 1 of whom (Johan) have managed to successfully get his PR via the 'Accountant' route whilst being in the same position as the both of us... (earlier replies in this post)

How do you know that the Accounting body wanted more recent skills in the (Accounting) profession...? Did you actually apply under Accountant initially ?

Also, I dont have the same info wrt "Accountant and CA's from SA would have had to have written various exams to align..." The info that I have is that if your local degree matches 9 of the 12 catgories of an equivalent Aus degree, you're accepted. (2 of the 12 you cannot match, as these are Aus Tax related but the rest apparantly matches with a 'BCOM Acc/BCOMPT)

Would appreciate some more info regarding the above, as I'm well on my way to apply the "Accountant" route, but with my last 8 years skills in SAP FI/CO (which I trust should not be a problem - just need some more 'motivation')

Thanks

Tjaart

PS: Would very much like to get some more details wrt your research. Your welcome to send it via PM

[Gee]

Hi there Tjaart,

re the first question...

my migration agent initially scored/assessed me under the Accounting route and he mentioned due to my lack of recent experience I was short of points...therefore my recent IT skills were strong and we went that route.

re the second question...

most of my SA Accounting friends which I studied and worked with which have migrated to AUS have been CA SA's(Chartered Accountants)

For them to hold the similar status in AUS ... as an Australian CA ,& to be able to sign off Financials and use the title they all had to do a conversion course.

Once passed they are conferred the AUS CA title

this is the first hand info re this I have

regards

Gavin

Edited November 21, 2006 by Gee