WORK AVAILABILITY

[Mara]

I am going to stick my neck out here, just like Bob did when he warned everyone about coming on a 457, he got shot down and now his words appear to have been prohetic! So, if you do not agree with my view, that is your right, just ignore it, however, if you do, please add to this post, it would be appreciated.

We moved to Brisbane in July of 1997, although this is a long time ago, I do not think that the Queensland attitude has changed in the interim. I work as a Financial Manager, and I have never had a problem getting a job. I have never gone for more than three interviews when job hunting, and often I would be offered at least two out of the three jobs. I have references that could be framed, they are that good. Now before you think I am just here, blowing my own trumpet, that is not the case, but you have to understand the background in order to understand my advice on Brisbane.

As stated, we arrived there in July 1997, I immediately set about job hunting, had my first interview a week later. In the next four months I went for 17 interviews, yes, that is right 17 interviews. The worst part is, I was not even short listed once! I eventually decided that there is something dreadfully wrong, so took the chance and called the last five jobs that I had interviewed unsuccessfully for. The comment I got from three of them, sorry the job went to a Queenslander! Two of them actually told me that although I was better qualified to do the job, their company's commitment is to first employ a Queenslander before anyone else! Please also understand that none of these jobs were through an employment agency, they were all direct. I cannot tell you how stunned I was by their remarks, it was pure discrimination, definitely thought about reporting them to some or other authority, but what would be the point? As Christmas was approaching, I decided to give it a break, enjoy myself and try and adjust to the humidity! Chatting to someone in human resources at a barbie, I was also informed that it is policy to first employ a Queenslander, then an Australian, then a Kiwi and lastly an immigrant! I was stunned, although I was a Kiwi, I spoke with the wrong accent. Please also realise, that I was happy to do any job involving books, anything from accounts clerk to financial manager, it did not matter to me, I just wanted to work.

Mid November, hubby came home from work and stated that he had endured enough of the relentless humidity, that it was OK if you worked in an air conditioned environment, but if, like him, you had to work in a workshop, this was not the place to be. Worst of all was, it was only November and everyone told us that it would be getting a lot worse, come January to March! We had a family conference and he decided to call the company in Melbourne that had also offered him a position, they just asked when could he start? So here we were, off to Melbourne.

With new vigour I immediatley started checking for new jobs in Melbourne. I sent out a few applications, and three days later had a call from one, he was very interested, was coming to Brisbane on business and could I meet with him, which I did. Offered me the job, there and then, and was happy to wait for me to arrive and give me two weeks to settle in. Best of all.....I had not even set foot in Melbourne yet, but I had a job!

So my advice to all of you arriving on PR, think carefully before you decide to settle in Brisbane, especially in the present economic climate! There are far more jobs available, across the board, in Melbourne and Sydney, than what there is in Brisbane. If you have your mind set on living in Queensland, then I suggest you come to either Melbourne or Sydney, spend a couple of years here, set yourself up with the famous 'Australian experience' and then look at moving yourself to Queensland. Melbourne and Sydney do not have a problem with immigrants and people with funny accents, mostly, all they are interested in is whether or not you can do the job!

Life does not come with guarantees, coming to Melbourne and Sydney will not guarantee that you will get a job, but I am pretty sure, you may find it easier than in Brisbane.

Good luck with your journey!

[polly]

Just from reading posts, there really seems to be a big difference in ease of finding work between the states.

[Queensland Girl]

Once PR has been achieved , my opinion is - Go where you find work. I know you are all thinking....oh- I dont want to have to move again.... But many formites have done JUST THAT. Once you have Australian working experience it makes a huge diffe rence.

Many times, the "stepping stone" location becomes home. And if not- move on.

But rather than fixed ideas about "I want to live in Brisbane/melbourne/wherever" have an open mind.

Family of ours did that- found a job in Canberra( the last place they were looking) and loved it. But they still wanted to be close to us.They have subsequently moved to the Gold Coast and are here for keeps!

[penny]

Thanks Mara for the post.

We have been here since October 2008 and I am still unemployed. In the beginning I had a few issues that I had to sort out, settling kids at school then Christmas arrived. From the beginning of January I really started applying for jobs. I have had a number of interviews and have received such contadictory messages. I queried the fact that the jobs are being given to Aussie's and was told "never" that would be unfair labour practice.

I have now spent time trying to learn MYOB to make myself more employable. I have so much experience (20 years) as a bookkeeper but no qualifications One person told me I am wasting my time applying through Seek etc and in a way I feel the same way. They seem to reply within minutes that my application has been unsucessful. I have also been told to be careful about starting something which I don't really want to do because it does not look good on a resume. I will now have to look at other options. Perhaps someone out there can give me more advice on finding employment.

Penny

[Gizmo]

Thanks Mara for that.

To add my 5c worth. I would be careful about coming to Perth unless you come with a job. Perth industry is heavily reliant on Mining. The mining sector is the worst effected by an economy fall. All the big companies here are not retrenching - they are culling!!! I came with a job, but, that was just before all this happened. Our company is now in trouble, they have already had a heavy round of retrenchments. We have all recently had to take a 10% pay cut. My three month probation is half-way through. I doubt that considering their situation, they will keep me on. In my field in Perth, since November, there are only about three jobs advertised!!! This is shocking - before November last year, there were at least 5 new jobs posted every day!!! The three jobs which have been advertised are all director positions (actually I suspect the adverts are actually all the same job) - they require somebody with almost double my experience, but also someone who knows the Perth market intimately and can scare up work - way above what I am capable of at the moment.

For hubby, there were ridiculous amounts of jobs posted before we came - about 20 new ones per day!! Now that we are here, there is almost nothing. With all the retrenchments, the few jobs available have fierce competition. He spoke at length to one of the agents looking for him - apparently, a job gets posted and the firm is inundated with applications in the first few hours. Before they day is out, they have over 100 applications, so they stop accepting any applications and pick someone from the first 100!!! To be the early bird and get into that first 100, you have to know people here. You need the networking to get the heads up that a job is going to become available - by the time the job hits the internet, it is too late already.

We have started looking at Melbourne and Sydney - in both our fields there are many more jobs available there. Not as many jobs as last year, but a lot more than in Perth!

(Oh, and please, nobody suggest that we go and work at Coles or Bunnings to ride out the tide - there aren't any jobs there either and neither hubby nor myself have any teller, or sales experience. Coles and Bunnings etc would take one look at or CV's and know that the minute we found something better we would be off... with no experience and with the potential to be unreliable, they would not hire us. Not to mention the numerous Aussies wondering around looking for work. Yes - they do the hire an Aussie first thing here too - unless you have contacts of course).

Edited February 15, 2009 by Gizmo

[zorba]

Thanks Mara, another excellent post!

I agree wholeheartedly that employment opportunities differ from state to state. But I have found that in NSW employers are quite open to "foreigners", well in Sydney that certainly seems to be the case. This may be because Sydney is so multicultural and so many "foreigners" are in fact Aussie citizens anyway!

I started looking for work in January, scanning the local papers for possibilities. I sent out about 6 CV's and have been invited for 3 interviews so far. Two have resulted in call-backs: one was unsuccessful and the other has resulted in an offer.

The third position, the interview went very well and the Employer asked if I could complete a course (required by law for the industry) before they can make an offer. Just as I had enrolled and commenced the course (at my own expense), the other offer came about...that's Murphy for you!

Not once was I made to feel disadvantaged because I am not an Aussie, if anything 2 of the interviewers commented that Saffers have such a good reputation and a brilliant work ethic, but for all I know the "unsuccessful" attempts could have been about me being foreign - I will never know.

(BTW not one of these jobs was for the field in which I hold qualifications. When in Rome...be flexible!)

So forumites who are struggling to find work should seriously consider trying other states, some are definitely more receptive and welcoming than others it seems. Good luck!

[candivw]

The problem with trying to find a job before you come over is most people are not interested in hearing from you until you land, again I also think its industry dependent. Those in insurance or if you have a trade you wont have a problem. It seems to be the "office" based jobs that are hard to come by at the moment. I dont think we can assume that its harder to find a job here in oz than in RSA as i sat back home a few years ago with no work after being retrenched. Times are tough everywhere, the choice is where to struggle, in oz or in RSA.

In Perth there are also loads of foreigners, they seem quite open and welcoming of other cultures etc.

Edited February 15, 2009 by candivw

[CandiceM]

I agree, you need to go where the work is, not where you want to live. If the work is where you want to live that's a bonus! Unfortunately right now, with this climate the jobs aren't abundant, and I am sure many companied are employing an 'aussie first' system. This means we immigrants have to be incredibly flexible. This recession WILL NOT last forever, but will probally last the next couple of years. Its a short time in the scheme of things, do what you have to do to get the job, and later more jobs available move where you really want to live, with job in hand!

'RELOCATION' is becoming a dreaded word, especially if you have just moved to Australia, but you can do it, it will be stressful, it will be hard, and the kids will be unsettled and you will get lost driving down roads ALL OVER AGAIN!! But you have endured visas, moving to Oz and settling down before, you can do it and you can make it work! Think of it as an adventure , and you never know, you might just love where you end up!

Candice

[Nix]

I am an incredibly positive person, and believe that things work out the way they are meant to. You just need to committ to your decision, and it all will fall into place.

I have proved that once already - we moved to a small Caribbean Island on a whim 8.5 years ago. We did not know the culture, we did not speak the language, and we certainly did not understand the small island business ethic. We thought we would going to take our successful Jhb business style and teach THEM a thing of two....and boy where we wrong!

But we survived. And made it work. And in the 8.5 years, we have achieved alot. And we have remained self employed the entire time. It has not been easy, and there have been times when I have wondered what the hell I had signed up for......but looking back, I would do it all again.

This move to Aus is far more considered. We have done our research. It is different this time. We have a child, we are older (me 40, and my OH 57) and we cannot afford to "waste" a couple of years whilst we find our niche. It needs to count first time around.

So......Gold Coast here we come......and I certainly hope that there are some opportunities there for us !

I think it is all a matter of attitude.

Nix

P.S. And yes....I DO feel apprehensive!

[lemoen]

(Oh, and please, nobody suggest that we go and work at Coles or Bunnings to ride out the tide - there aren't any jobs there either and neither hubby nor myself have any teller, or sales experience. Coles and Bunnings etc would take one look at or CV's and know that the minute we found something better we would be off... with no experience and with the potential to be unreliable, they would not hire us. Not to mention the numerous Aussies wondering around looking for work. Yes - they do the hire an Aussie first thing here too - unless you have contacts of course).

I stood mop in hand, not long after arriving in Sydney, and thought to myself, “what would my esteemed colleagues think†back in the good old South Africa if they could see me now cleaning/mopping the floor, mopping up after others. Me of all people, who was used to a cleaner daily knocking very politely on my office door, asking permission to come in and clean up my mess, I hardly knew the ladies name, and barely spoke to her, and here I am, mop in hand, feeling a bit embarrassed in the beginning, but I did it as I had to put bread on the table, and learn some important life lessons.

During the interview, the employer mentioned to me that it was not really my field, referring to my CV and qualifications, I told her that I do not mind starting from the bottom; at least I have my foot in the door. To make a long story short, I strived to be the very best “floor mop personâ€, and guest what, once you are in, the sky is the limit.

My daughter worked at Coles, not so difficult to do, she was only 15 and mastered most after two training sessions and after a couple of hours on the job. It is not a shame to in Australia to do menial jobs, just do whatever you do to the best of your ability, and the rest will take care of itself.

We all shout for our own teams, we are supporting the Springboks, or the Proteas, do expect the Aussies to shout for the Wallabies, same goes for employment they will prefer to employ their own first, it is common sense, it is a human trait to look after your own first, then the rest.

[Mara]

Thanks to all of you for your support of my opinion, humble as my opinion may be!

The reason I chose Melbourne and Sydney is due to the fact that they seem far more welcoming to immigrants and also being the biggest cities, there are more jobs available!

Nix, I understand your concerns regarding age, I may add that when we arrived in Australia, hubby and I were both 48 years old!

[AndreaL]

We have moved 3 times in 3 years- To Perth then Albany then Moranbah, Queensland.

I was brought up with the belief that you go where the work is, my parents moved from Scotland to England in 1970, back to Scotland in 1979 and on to South Africa in 1982.

Before Australia we moved to Namibia in 2002- again for work, the days of choosing somewhere to live and then finding work are gone, first find work and then just hope that you like the place enough!

A lot of that depends on your mindset and willingness to adapt, yes it can be hard on the kids, but it also gives them experiences that other kids might not have.

My husband is an Electrician with a mining background, his first job here was in a factory making compressors, his second in an sheep abbatoir ( we were just as surpised by that adventure!) and the third finally back in mining.

We have had good natured teasing about being foreigners everywhere we have been and have not had any negativity here in Queensland but that could be because the mines by nature employ foreigners from all over the world, things may be different in other industries.

There have been a lot of job losses in our community, my brother in law was retrenched last Friday and we are looking at a pay cut and possibly 20% reduction in workers( we are keeping our heads down, fingers crossed and discussing when we could go for p.r with the company, this will certainly cause a stink as other people had to wait 2 years..... )

I really can't offer constructive advice for someone like Gizmo and the many others looking for work or about to land and look for work.

Things have changed so much in a few months that I would just say forget how things used to be done, try and think outside the box a little about how you look for work and grab any opportunity that comes your way, it is better to be sitting in a lousy job that pays the rent and looking for a better one than have no job.

For those in South Africa waiting for 175 visa grants- seriously look at trying to get a 457 sponsor so that you at least come with work, it can take 3 months to find work in good times, much longer now, hopefully there will be no drama until your p.r. is granted.

Remember 457's have already dropped by 21% in number and are getting harder to secure too so don't be too rigid about how you get here or how you get a job- we are all beholden to our employers in one way or another.

Finally all forumites, be prepared for a cut in the skilled migration intake- although still at rumour stage- this may happen, refer to the latest Iscah migration newsletter.

Good luck to you all.

[Tracy]

I have to try and find some positve things about my time in Alice Springs; and perhaps it was what Mara is saying: the Aus experience.

I have to say that I'm a LOT wiser about things now!

[JennyG]

Mara, I do agree with your post, thing is with state sponsorships you don't have a choice than to move and stay in that state who sponsor you for the period of two years. At this stage I feel like the best thing to do is to stay put. In other words, why leave your job in SA to go and struggle finding a job in Oz. Apply for your PR, validate it and just wait for everything to cool down. Just my opinion.

[Mara]

Thanks JennyR, yes, if you are sponsored you do not have a choice, but to stay in the state that sponsored you for the two years. The whole object of my initial post was to inform people coming on PR that they may get a job a lot easier in Melbourne or Sydney than in Brisbane. Just a case of using or ignoring the advice, each one has different circumstances.

I had just seen a lot of folks heading for Brisbane and the Gold Coast, all on PR and I was concerned for their ability to find work in that area at this stage!

[Nats123]

Hi All,

As I said before times have changed and finding work (in any country for that matter) is not an easy task.

We came over on a 457 and I was very fortunate to have a friend that recommended me for the position.

I can rememebr that companies like Hays scoop you up from South Africa if you have your PR.

So as soon as you have that PR confirmed apply at allt he agencies and make it very clear that you are a perminant resident.

Good luck!

Nats

[Smartie]

Mara, I do agree with your post, thing is with state sponsorships you don't have a choice than to move and stay in that state who sponsor you for the period of two years. At this stage I feel like the best thing to do is to stay put. In other words, why leave your job in SA to go and struggle finding a job in Oz. Apply for your PR, validate it and just wait for everything to cool down. Just my opinion.

Hi JennyR,

I have to agree that right now the safest thing economically is to stay in SA and ride out this particular storm but sometimes there are other reasons why staying is maybe not the answer.

We applied for PR Feb 08 and honestly it looks like we will be lucky if we get it by the end of Dec 09.

My eldest daughter is already 15 and my little one starts grade R next year. I would like for them both to start next year in Oz as I dont want my 15 yr old to arrive in Oz in grade 12 (last year of high school) and I dont want my little one to start big school here and then have to move.

My hubbie is now looking at ALL the options we have including the 457. Gotta say I am ABSOLUTELY petrified about this move but I do believe that for US just sitting back and waiting may well result in neva leaving. Anyway as with anything they are all personal decisions and there is no wrong or no right.

Edited February 19, 2009 by Smartie

[Jacky]

Thank you for posting this Mara.

Hubby and I are considering moving to Australia from Canada. I moved to Canada from SA 11 years ago. We were thinking that Perth sounded like a good place to settle, but from what I'm reading, it's a good idea to see where the jobs are first before committing to an area. Hubby is in the Oil and Gas industry. Can anyone recommend good websites or recruitment agencies to look at? Would Perth be a good place to look at to live?

[Brett]

We moved here to Brisbane in mid January on PR.

My wife found a job, but she has good qualifications and experience, that being said in SA she would have had 10 offers, here she only got one and that only because the Aussie they gave the job to got a better offer from his current employer.

I have sent out many CV's and have not had one interview. I'm a Design engineer, but it seems so is every one else in Brisbane.

I haven’t lost hope though, with my wife working I've had time to bond with my daughter, and as she only goes to crèche 1 day a week someone would have to be at home with her anyway.

And with all the financial turmoil at the moment it would be expected that work will be hard to find, just remember that SA always seems to be a year or 2 behind, so this will hit there also some time.

What’s nice is that in SA there is no way we would have lived off one salary, but here with a modest salary we are doing well…..just breaking even, but enjoying life, and having fun.

To those in SA reading these posts and getting nervous. It is hard times here, and if you can secure a job before you come that’s first price, but that being said, go look at any online job site, there are hundreds if not thousands of jobs, if your skill is needed you’ll get the job, if you have the right experience you’ll get the job, if your patient something will come up just look at the people who say “it took me 3 months to get a jobâ€, “ it took me 5 months….â€, sure it took a while but they got a job didn’t they. Just do me one favour though if you’re a design engineer please don’t come they have enough here.

We made this move for our kids, and it’s the hard times in life that you look back on with pride when you’ve made it, if you thought moving to a new country was going to be easy you’ve obviously never done it before. But if you had to ask me if I’d do it again my answer would be yes every time.

[kiddies]

Hi everybody

I really hope there is somebody out there that can be of assistance to us in some or other way. Actually not me, but my brother.

My brother will be 45 years old this year. We all know that as far as emigration to Australia is concerned, this fact has the warning lights flashing already. He did an Agricultural diploma at Grootfontein in Middelburg, Cape and farmed for 15 years in the Eastern Cape. When our parents sold the farm he decided to pursue his longstanding interest in Mechanical Engineering. He is already in possession of his National Diploma in Mechanical Engineering and will finish his B Tech Degree in June this year. He has done various courses and is currently employed as an intern at the Automotive Components Technology Station (ACTS) at the University. They are mainly involved in the design of components and systems which are not commercially available.

The reason why I am telling you all this is quite obvious. Because of my brother's age he will struggle to find a visa unless he is sponsored by a company. He is passionate about what he does and so badly wants to give his family (wife and two small children) a better future in Australia. He is exceptionally good in what he does. It was not easy restarting at the age of 40 and competing with the younger students, but despite this he is one of the top achievers and got a merit award for design last year. Since we were small he showed exceptional talent in anything mechanical.

All I want to know is if anybody knows of a firm (corporate or private) who would be willing to give him a chance. Any contact details are welcome so that my brother can follow up on them. He will be available for work in July/August.

I guess if you don't try you won't get anywhere................hence this post!

Thanks so much

[Nix]

Kiddies......did your brother get anywhere with this request? Has anything come up for him? Just curious.....always nice to hear "happy stories"....

Nix

[RyanO]

Hi Brett,

What design work do you do? Qualification? Years experience?

Reading how you have been unsucessful in finding work, even up in Brisbane is not good news for me.

I don't need any more bad news at the moment. I feel down enough as it is. I don't know how you are managing to stay so positive.

I am/was employed as a Civil Designer at Consulting Engineers on the Gold Coast. I was told on Monday, "your position is being made redundant".

We have been here since November so I was recruited when the economy was still booming. I'm on a dreaded 457 so it's not like I can get a casual job selling vegetables. We took a gamble with the 457 and lost.

I am being 'stood down' for a month first, so that is supposed to buy me some more time.

The total lack of responses from recruitment agencies is deafening. They haven't even called to talk themselves up. Even the agent that got me this positon is MIA.

Ryan

[Eva]

I am/was employed as a Civil Designer at Consulting Engineers on the Gold Coast. I was told on Monday, "your position is being made redundant".

We have been here since November so I was recruited when the economy was still booming. I'm on a dreaded 457 so it's not like I can get a casual job selling vegetables. We took a gamble with the 457 and lost.

I am being 'stood down' for a month first, so that is supposed to buy me some more time.

Ryan

How awful Ryan!

I really feel for you and hope you manage to find another job/sponsor soon!

Regards

Eva

[thehulls]

Hey Ryan - Hope you get this sorted out as soon as you can. Sorry to hear this bad news!

L.

[gr8xpectations]

I am/was employed as a Civil Designer at Consulting Engineers on the Gold Coast. I was told on Monday, "your position is being made redundant".

We have been here since November so I was recruited when the economy was still booming. I'm on a dreaded 457 so it's not like I can get a casual job selling vegetables. We took a gamble with the 457 and lost.

I am being 'stood down' for a month first, so that is supposed to buy me some more time.

Sorry to hear mate! I'm in the same industry and things are really bad out there. My company is still letting people go, all be it at a slower rate. There is a lot of talk of new work coming in, in the next couple of months... so keep on knocking on those doors - dont give up just quite yet! I believe more federal budget has been allocated to Victoria than other states... so try contacting companies/ agents in Melbourne! Chin up, us Saffers are fighters!!