Undecided

[Hanlie]

Hallo

I am a new member and I apologise if I sound uncertain but I need to make contact with people that can give me an honest opinion. It is really a fantastic forum and has given me a lot of info.

What bothers me is will ex South African's really say if they are unhappy in Australia?.

My sister is staying in Sydney and she was very homesick the first 3 years. Now she has adapted and is happy and enjoys the freedom and crime free living. I know everyone will say a country is what you make of it but I still have my concerns.

My husband is set on moving to Australia. He is in the construction industry and everyone is very positive that he will find work very quickly. He is 44, has a degree in construction management with very good experience in large shopping centres and hotels.

We have been through a armed robbery at our house the beginning of the year which has been a terrible emotional roller coaster ride for us. Will the fear of becoming a victim of crime again leave us when arriving in Australia?

regards

Hanlie

[Dreamcatcher]

Hi Hanlie,

Yes, we will be truthful. Read this thread. In it there is a discussion about the issue you mention. Hope this answers one of your many questions.

Don't worry about sounding uncertain, I think we all went through that stage some time or the other. We are here to try and give as much information as possible, even though we may be biased . Each of us is talking about this from our own experience, which is different for all. Take what you need from the information presented, and form your own views and decisions. It is not easy, but I can tell you it is worth it in the end.

It takes people different times to adapt to change, and it depends on a lot of factors. I am sure your husband would find work, as there are skills shortages everywhere in Aus.

When it comes to crime, there is nowhere in the world that is free from it. If you come to Aus with the idea of Utopia, you will be disappointed. It is however much safer than SA, and once you start living here, you will wonder how you could ever have lived the way you did in SA. I was talking to my hubby earlier when we went for a walk. We left the kids at home, and walked through the streets at 7pm, in half dark. We had no fear, and were not even thinking of looking around, or being aware of our surroundings. I noticed this, and mentioned to him that I don't think I'll ever adapt to the SA way of life again. We (once again) remarked to each other how the school has no locked gates, the houses don't have burglar bars, and everyone's cars are standing on the pavement or on the roadside for the night. No worries mate, as the Aussies say!

I for one, love it in Australia, and even though there are times when I feel a little homesick, it is for friends and family, not the way of life.

Greetings,

Dreamy

Edited November 6, 2006 by Dreamcatcher

[Guest Bronwyn]

Hey Hanlie I am also in Lynnwood. We are probably next-door-neighbours I'm so sorry about the armed robbery, that must have been horrible. I am very nervous in my house all the time too, and sick of living like this.

We are leaving for Adelaide in about 5 weeks time (and counting). I haven't had one moment's doubt that it's the right thing to do, and I am so excited. I hope and trust we won't be disappointed.

Give me a shout if you would like to meet. Unfortunately we can't make it to the Coffee Club on Saturday 18th, but maybe we can get together another time if you like. If you can attend, you will be able to chat to lots of other Pretorianers.

Where are you thinking of moving to?

Cheers, Bronwyn

[Ajay]

Hi Hanli,

First of all, welcome to our forum - I hope you find lots if useful, helpful information here. I like to think that we are unbiased, but I don't know if any such thing exists, to be truthful. I wrote something about this before, which you can read here .

Unfortunatelt, this is one of those decisions that only you and your hubby can make. It's a great idea to use the internet to do as much research as you can, but you need to be sure in your heart that you are making the right choice for you and your family. Otherwise, the relocation will be that much more challenging. Having your sister close by will no doubt help, as well.

From a purely personal perspective, I can tell you that I believe that this move has been a life changing, and possibly a life saving decision, and I haven't regretted it for a second.

My husband got a second crack at a career, after being retrenched and unemployed in SA. My kids have the kind of life that I though only existed in the movies, where they can walk to school, catch a bus to the mall, etc. and I get to see them and hopefully their children grow up. In SA, I had resigned myself to the fact that my boys would probably have to leave the country to go to university and have a career. My youngest son is passionate about sports and is a talented cricketer - here he actually has a chance of turnng this into a career if he has enough talent, whereas in SA, the enforced quota system counts for much more than actual ability. I wake up every morning, and look out my unfettered windows, and send thanks to the person upstairs, whoever that might be for you, for making this possible.

Good luck with your decision making - and remember to lean on us if you need to.

Love

Ajay

[Guest Sunshine Sister]

What bothers me is will ex South African's really say if they are unhappy in Australia?.

Hi Hanlie.

Welcome to our forum. I am a little bit different from the other forumites in the sense that I am living in Australia as an expat rather than an immigrant. We are not here on a permanent basis, nor are we in a hurry to make our stay in Australia permanent. (We are not planning to apply for PR nor to buy a house or any of the other things that many do to settle in ASAP). We do have the option of extending our stay after our current 4 year contract, but for now we have no commitments of living or working here beyond that point. Our status of expat makes us quite unique (imho) as we do not have the pressures most others Saffers feel of making their move work and fitting in and settling in or this being where they will live until they die. In a way I guess I am a bit more objective than others (?) as I have the luxury of leaving after 4 years if I don't like it here. I don't have to convince myself that it is the best place on earth, nor do I have to ignore any of the negatives as I have been very happy in other countries (other than SA) and can go back there at any time. Ok, enough with the background info.

When we left SA 8 and a bit years ago there was another Australian myth doing the rounds and discouraging thousands from taking the leap. The myth then was that Australians despise South Africans, that they are jealous of us as we are hard-working and ambitious and that they will do almost all in their power to keep us at the bottom of the food chain in business as they are afraid we will take over their country if given the chance. We were also quite a force in rugby and cricket at the time (boy this was obviously looooong ago ) and many Saffers were convinced Australians hate us and are threatened by us and by going to live in their country you set yourself up for all kinds of abuse/hatred and discrimination. This alleged discrimination was not against foreigners in general, no, it was specifically aimed at Saffers, they knew our accent and would spot us a mile off. Hmmmm. Where exactly this myth started I don't know. Why this rumour started I can imagine. It would seem that there is forever a myth in the air when the discussion of Saffers and living in Australian is on the table, while in reality very little if any of it is true. As you are not the first one to mention the issue of "Saffers being unhappy in Australia" recently I am starting to suspect that it is the flavour of the month myth. I have been in Sydney now for 4 months. During this short time period I have gotten to know 22 South African families. I had to count on my hands quickly and was stunned to end up with such a high number !! Of the 22 families that I know I personally only know one couple who aren't bursting at the seams with enthusiasm. They haven't been here long and I am sure if they give it some time, they will find their own little nest and life will go on. All of the other families have settled in well, made friends, found jobs, live in nice houses, have braais / birthday parties/ coffee meetings, go to church on Sundays, etc just as they had done before in SA. They are a very diverse group ranging from ppl who have been here 9 years to ppl who have been here shorter than us. None of them are struggling financially, starving to death or selling their bodies for food. (I know another popular myth is that some Saffers are so poor that they are stuck here without money and without the means to go back ).

I personally think Australia is an excellent choice for Saffers. The cultures are relatively similar, we both love the outdoors, the climate is similar, it is still in the Southern Hemisphere, schooling is much the same. In many ways I have found Australia to be South Africa without the troubles. If you grew up in the platteland/suburbs and remember playing cricket in the streets until the sun set, walking to the corner cafe for your mom to go buy milk and bread and playing in the park with the kids of the neighbourhood, then you will feel right at home in Australia. It is very similar to how it was when we grew up, before everything became chained down, locked- up, alarmed, armed and life threatening. When you look at important aspects like stable economy, career prospects, schooling, medical care, global competitiveness, freedom of the press, democracy, infrastructure, safety and security etc you will find very little wrong with Australia. It is a secure, stable, 1st world country, which expects residents to act responsibly and punishes them when they step out of line. It isn't perfect, there are things that I don't like and that I know will still work on my nerves, but when you look at the big picture it is NOTHING compared to the troubles South Africans live with. I have to agree that your new country will be what you make of it, but it is also important to make informed choices. The best thing you can do for yourself is to research thoroughly and to ensure that you live in the right neighbourhood.(When I say right I mean Right for you). It is the best thing I ever did, was to find out all I could about all of the different suburbs and to come and live where I am surrounded by like-minded ppl. It has made an enormous difference to settling in and making friends. I have also met a few fabulous Australian moms at school, 3 of whom I have regular coffee mornings with. They are all from my neighbourhood and it is amazing how much we have in common.

So far I am very happy in Australia. Most South Africans I personally know here are very happy and I have no reason to lie to you. It is not easy and making friends takes time and energy, but living in the right neighbourhood and surrounding yourself with like-minded ppl will give you an enormous kick-start.

Will the fear of becoming a victim of crime again leave us when arriving in Australia?

As you have lived in fear for so long I think it will take a while before you will relax. There is no reason to be scared in Australia and after a while you will start to see how relaxed everyone around you is and it will start rubbing off on you.

Where will you be moving to ? If you are considering Sydney, let me know as I would love to help wherever I can. Good luck, I can completely understand your apprehension - having realistic expectations and knowing what others have struggled with will help you prepare for what lies ahead.

Love from Sydney

Sunshine Sister

[Bob]

Well, that's pretty unbiased reality from a fellow Sth African in Sydney.

I don't know if you have read other posts from other folk in Sth Africa thinking of taking the leap to another country or not. I don't believe you mentioned if you had kids or not.

I mentioned once before . . . . an aspect that may not seem so obvious at first . . . . but if you have kids at all, there is a big chance that they will leave a country (i.e. South Africa) where there is not as much opportunity for them to achieve at all levels.

They will hear from their mates about the "fantastic" opportunities available in the U.K., Australia, Canada, New Zealand and America and the great lifestyle in these places, where they'll be able to go about without an armed escort 24/7, and just live as normal human beings.

The probability is great that your kids will leave South Africa . . . . if you don't.

If you want to be with your kids in the years to come, with grand-children around, then they are more likely to be near you in a place like Australia, where they will able to achieve whatever levels in sport, career or education they want, regardless of them being White.

I visited Zimbabwe a few years after Mugabe took over. The young had mostly left, leaving the old people there to live with their government pensions, etc. . . . . not that that would be worth anything nowadays?

Secondly, your husband sounds like the sort of bloke able to wrap up a decent job in Australia . . . . at the moment!

45 is cut-off time.

No more employment offers, in Australia, to speak of on reaching his next birthday.

Think about it . . . . but whatever you decide will probably lock in your future, as time is NOT on your side much any more.

Sorry to put it so bluntly, but it's worth making these points as plain as day to you in case you don't consider them both.

Edited November 7, 2006 by Bob

[Riekie]

Hanlie, you've already got so much advise & opinions from everyone else - there's barely anything I could add (apart from agreeing with most of what everyone said). I UNDERSTAND your doubts. If the reasons to GO outweighs the reasons to STAY, the answer is pretty obvious (although, not in any way easy!) ...and visa versa....

[Andro]

Hallo Hanlie,

My naam is Helena & my man is Andro. Ons is ook nog in SA en het nog nie eers begin met die aansoek proses nie. Ons behoort darem al 'n geruime tydtjie aan die forum en het ook soos jy ongelooflik baie kosbare inligting sowel as antwoorde gekry.

Al wat ek van my kant af kan sê is die volgende:

Ons bly nou wel nie in Oz nie, maar het al met soveel mense daar gepraat, almal deur die bank is net so gelukkig daar. Hul kinders het die vryheid om skooltoe te stap, fiets te ry of sommer 18:00 - 20:00 die aand saammet 'n maatjie na die plaaslike swembad te gaan. (dis nou iemand in Perth met wie ek gepraat het oor Skype). Die kinders gaan braai naweke alleen in die parkies en kamp alleen sonder ouers se toesig. Dit klink amper te goed om waar te wees! Die nuutste statistieke wys dat daar maar 800 sterfevalle per jaar op die paaie is, dis nou wel 'n eenvoudige rede maar kyk net hoeveel sterftes alleen is daar nie oor die seisoentyd in SA nie. Ons bly nie in Gauteng nie, anders dink ek was ons al lankal oorsee. Ons bly in 'n baie veilige omgewing in die Wes-Kaap, ons het nog nie kinders nie maar besef dat ons die skuif vir hulle wil doen en natuurlik vir onsself, hoe lank gaan dit nie wees voor hier by ons ook "armed robberies" en hijackings is nie... Mens lees elke dag van mense wat eers 'n geliefde moes verloor ens voor hulle die besluit kon neem, ek wil nie een van daardie mense wees nie, ek en my man kies om nou al die gevaartekens raak te sien en nou al iets daaraan te doen.

My man het sy eie besigheid en dit gaan vir ons baie moeilik wees om als te los en van vooraf te begin, maar op die ou einde van die dag gaan ons 'n baie beter lewe in 'n ander land soos Oz hê.

Ons was bevoorreg genoeg om in baie ander 1ste wêreld lande te toer en die lewens kwalitiet in 'n 1ste wêreld land is net soveel beter as in 'n land soos SA waar ons moet veg vir als. Een ding wat ek veral opgelet het is hoe goed die Oz government na die ouer mense kyk, hier in SA kry die arme ouer mense die swaarste van almal! Ons almal gaan eendag oud word en wil darem weet ons is veilig en daar is goeie sorg vir ons waar ook al gaan bly. Dis nie almal se kinders wat na hul ouers kan of partykeer wil kyk nie, dan word die arme ou mense net iewers in 'n te huis gesit....ek wil ten minste weet ek sal goeie sorg kry ens.

Die besluit bly nogsteeds joune, maar as ek moes deurgaan wat julle en soveel ander SA'ners daagliks deurgaan het ek al lankal meer ernstig na so iets begin kyk. Ek weet mens mis jou vriende en familie, maar hier gaan dit oor survival, as jy en jou familie jul besluit geneem het sal jul baie gou weer pelle maak. Familie kan altyd kom kuier of selfs soontoe immigreer as hul dieselfde voel soos julle. Ongelukkig sal nie almal die "bigger picture" kan insien nie.

Nou ja, as jy enige tyd wil gesels kan jy my pm dan kan ek jou my email adres gee of ons kan oor skype ook praat.

BAIE STERKTE met jul besluit en pas julself mooi op daarbo.

Lekker dag verder!

Helena G

[sonnetjie]

Hanlie

Moving to Australia has been one of the best decisions we made as a family. My parents and my brother left SA and I followed a year later. The first few years were a challenge, but long-term the freedom and the opportunity that we have gained have far outweighed that what we had sacrificed.

We got connected in a very dynamic church and it just planted us and connected us to our community. I met my husband in Australia and my brother is going out with a fabulous Christian Australian girl he met at church. My parents have really gotten involved in their community and could not be happier.

Moving countries is definitely not a bed of roses. If you have family here in Australia it will definitely make it easier. It was only the four of us when we immigrated to Oz. As the years have gone by the rest of our extended family have been scattered across the world. We have always been a very close-knit family. Moving countries has just brought us closer. We have developed an independence and ability to just get on with life that is amazing. I believe we are richer for it.

Culturally we have grown and have become better-rounded people having a capacity to communicate to all, realizing and understanding that there are many different ways to skin a cat. Knowing that our way of approaching life is not the only way and that there are diverse varieties of cultural groups out there that have some good ideas that we can incorporate into our daily life. Our culinary tastes have developed and expanded far beyond what we could ever have dreamed. At the same time we have been able to hold on to our values and stand strong for what we believe is right.

I believe our children will be a melting pot of all these enriching experiences. As the years have passed I have first seen myself as South African and these days as Australian with a sub culture and that being South African. I have seen this pattern amongst many of my immigrant friends be they Lebanese, Indian, Asian, South African, Italian, Portuguese, Dutch etc.

Our friendship circle is a real rainbow that represents cultural groups from across the globe. We are not intimidated by the different cultural groups, but have learnt to embrace them as they have embraced us. One of the many things that I really enjoy about Australia is that we all work together. I have not experienced Australians as a them and us mentality. Because Australia has so many immigrants one does not stand out as much as one would in for example Japan. We have found the Australians very embracive and very tolerant willing to allow all to have their own opinions and thoughts. I would not describe the people as legalistic or controlling. They are pretty laid back. Yes they also do have their limits and if their tolerance is abused they will very quickly let you know if you are overstepping the boundaries. Violence is not acceptable in society; it is very much frowned upon and very quickly addressed. If you do step over the line you can count upon it that that you will be made accountable for your actions. This has contributed to making Australia a very safe environment. Oz is not paradise as it has its mistakes, but the good parts far outweigh the bad parts.

We have all (my parents, my husband, myself and my brother) been able to run with our careers like we would never been able to in SA. The only limits to our careers have been our own ability. Other than that Australia has been a complete smorgasbord to us. Both my husband and I have been able to do postgraduate studies, which we would not have been able to afford if we were in SA. Fortunately the Australian government has a system that enables you to do it as they financially assist you through Fee-pay.

My brother and I will be forever thankful for the opportunities and the safety that my parents have provided for us by immigrating to Australia. Had they stayed in SA my brother and I would have left anyway as we would not have been able to find work in South Africa. So far it has definitely paid off, as we moved as a family. My brother did his last two years of high school year 11-12 in Australia and I transferred my uni studies from SA to Oz. My brother did his first degree at Sydney Uni and had a blast and I completed mine at Charles Sturt Uni I’m currently doing my masters.

I don’t believe one can put a price on your safety. I have had a few very close shaves myself in SA and have had some family members whose lives have been traumatized severely due to some of the violence that they have experienced in South Africa. In Oz I’m free. As a woman I can move around freely without constantly having to worry that one or other thug is going to try and get me. I often only get home around 8:45pm or much, much later. Our office is in the CBD in Sydney. I can comfortably walk from the office to the train station at night and then from the station to my car without worrying about my safety. This is common practice amongst other women as well. I have done this without any problems for a number of years now. The house that we were renting up until recently did not have a fence around or any of security measures compared to SA. We leave the windows open during the day without worrying that someone is going to help himself or herself to our stuff.

All the best with your decisions. Give Australia a chance. You will be surprised to see how wonderfully it surprises you. Our family has brilliantly integrated into the Australian community. I have often heard people speaking Afrikaans on the train in the food court or in St Ives Shopping Villages or even at church. You often hear immigrants speaking to their children in their home language in Oz. It is not an uncommon practice. I have even heard of an Afrikaans mothers group in Sydney. In my opinion one does not lose your cultural identity when you move countries you just enlarge it.

[Guest Larry]

Sonnetjie,

That is about one of the best sum-ups of Australia from the migrants' point of view that I have ever read. - Thank you!

Edited November 7, 2006 by Larry

[Hanlie]

Hi everyone

Wow, I cannot believe everyone is so friendly en helpfull. I am soooo exited after reading all your advice. My husband is flying to Australia (Perth, Sydney and Brisbane) the 9th. He has several interviews lined up. Hold thumbs!!! After going onto Google Earth I cannot decide between Perth or Brisbane/Gold Coast. Everything looks stunning. We love the outdoors and we love diving, actually all kinds of watersports.

Bronwyn, my tel no is (012) 348-6850 at home. Maybe we can get together. My children is in Lynnwood primary (3 of them). Please send me your tel no as well, then we can make contact before you leave (if you have time between all the packing). I am actually envious

If Tukino (Gary) reads this email, I was trying to send you an email back to telkomsa.net but it is bouncing back. Please send me your telephone number then my husband can contact you. Thanks also for your sound advice.

This forum is just what I needed.

Hanlie

[Carlos Carvalho]

Hi Hanlie

Welcome. My 2 cents if I may! I would like to believe that I know what your family is going through after experiencing at home. Keep your spirits high and have faith. This is not an easy decision and I believe that the comments posted to date are truthful and will lead you to making the right choice.

Kind Regards