A difference of opinion.

[Greener pastures]

Hi,

I need some opinions, please. But first some background info…

We, my husband, two children and I, just started our application to move to Aus. We decided than we want a better life for our children. My sister lives in Brisbane, a cousin in Sidney, friends in Perth and a sister-in-law in Townsville. Everyone of then said that they will never come back to SA except my sister-in-law. She is really miserable there . She said that people don’t mingle, that she misses her family and that she is very lonely. She said that we should reconsider our decision. My parents did a LSD and were ecstatic about Aus. They are very supportive of out decision although they still live in SA. Sister-in-law said that there is a difference in living there and visiting. Now my question is…

1. Who would come back, and why? Who would stay in Aus and why?

2. Is my sister-in-law correct in saying that we should avoid staying in the small town areas? Is her problem a small town thing?

Any feedback positive or negative would be much appreciated.

[Dreamcatcher]

Hi there,

I would not say it is a small town thing. If you call Townsville a small town, that is... According to the sites I just checked out, it is a city!

Anyway, I live in a so-called "small town", and I love it here. We are a big community of South Africans, but we don't have a inclusive club, if I can call it that. We know each other, and visit and support, without being interfering. We have joined in with some of the volunteer programs, and through that we have made many friends, and learnt a lot about Australia and it's people. Maybe you can suggest that to your sister in law? There is a Volunteer Resource Centre in Townsville.

After all it will be what YOU make of it. If you are intent on hating it, you will. If you come here with an attitude that says: "We are going to make it, and we are willing to go through some tough times to get there", then you will be OK. People are different, and they take to change differently.

She is right in telling you to reconsider your decision, but not in a negative light. We all had to consider, and reconsider before we came. We made the decision to come, and have never looked back.

Greetings,

Dreamy

[DesertDaisy]

There are times when I am petrified about the decision we have made to leave, and other times when I am SO looking forward to it.

Only you can make the decision for yourself, and only you can make it a success.

I know plenty of Saffers in Abu Dhabi, some of whom are miserable, and others very happy. The difference? Its what they make of it. If you try and live just like in SA, then you are looking for trouble. You can't do that, its a different country and you have to adapt.

Good luck with your decision.

[Queensland Girl]

Dear Greener Pastures

I have heard that smaller towns/cities in Queensland can be problematic for some to settle in. I have not experienced this at all here where I live on the Gold Coast and we have settled well and we are happy.

Perhaps the family member who lives in Townsville would feel different if perhaps she was also in let say Brisbane?

We as a family have found the grass to be greener.

[Dedrei]

I can totally relate to your sister-in-law’s experiences as some days I feel like that as well. We are in what they call a city as well, but to us it is a small town, we are about the same size as Townsville (115 000 people)

After visiting Brisbane & Gold Coast we have come to the conclusion that it is definitely a small town thing. We felt so at home in Brisbane. The people were definitely more welcoming and accepting towards us. Small town people, this side of aus anyways, aren’t very accepting to foreigners. And I can understand why. In Brisbane and the big cities you have lots of different cultures and immigrants. Small towns only have a few immigrants, so they don’t get exposed to different cultures at all. In Cairns alone, I believe we are about 100 Saffers max. We call these guys the Outback Jacks. Just think of back home in SA, the plattelanders are bit different to the city folk in Cape Town, Jo’burg, etc. It’s the same here. They might call most of these cities, but they are really small towns.

Also, I am not giving Cairns a bad name or anything, this place is really beautiful and there is no other place like it. Just some of the people here that needs a wake up call.

And we would definitely be looking at moving to the bigger cities in about a year or two. Not just because of the people but because we are “stadsjapies” and thrive on the energy of the cities and the different cultures.

[Lindy-Lee]

We came over to Perth with no LSD. Had NO idea what was waiting for us on this side. But before we even came over we decided that we have 2 choices: either it works or we make it work!! There just was no other option for us.

If you are going to settle in quickly,... depends on your attitude!!

One thing I realised very quickly was that there was not a tatoo on my forhead saying "Im new and have no friends. Please be my friend"

I made a point of going out and meeting people, be it in person or on the net.

With that attitude I have not looked back once. and I am not prepared to give up our lives in Australia for anything!!

January 2005 we moved "home". Australia is and always will be home for us.

Good luck with everything and remember it's normal to start doubting all your decisions now...abit like getting cold feet before a wedding

Lindy-Lee

[chatterbug]

Hi Greener pastures,

This is quite a difficult one, especially since it is so dependent on what you are personally looking for in your lives, how desperate you are to get out of SA and into Aus, and many other factors. What many others wouldn't give for a chance to go to Townsville? Hey but we are all different. There are obviously many other factors at play in your sister-in-law's situation that we would not know about, and you probably don't even fully undertsand.

I think the best is to analyse why you guys are contemplating the move. Go back to the drawing board and decide why you guys are wanting to come over. If you know what the reasons are then I'd say start asking yourself what the ideal place would look like for you guys to fulfill most of your needs/want /desires - in general.

What should the weather be like, do you want to be close to a city, live in one, or at all cost want to avoid one, do you want an inner city living lifestyle, beachy setup, platteland, acreage, hobbyfarms setup etc. Think of proximity to schools, good universities, colleges, etc. What about leisure, do you like the outdoors, do you like arts and cuture etc. What about job opportunities, do you need to be close to a city, does it not matter, or do you for example live near a mine, factory or other main centre for a specific job? What about support structures - are you the poinering type who does not need much and can adapt easily or are you the type that likes to be closer to people that are more like you, maybe closer to the support structures of other family/other saffers? Consider at what stage you are in your lives, starting out, with a small family or winding down with the kids leaving home soon? Maybe you are in need of a sea change and wanted to move from a city to a rural setup, or the other way around?

When you have a good picture of the main elements you need /want in a place you'd be better equipped to decide for yourself. It remains your decision and when you have made it and have arrived my advice is to close that "back door" about going back to SA for at least 2 years. Don't even go there or contemplate it, just try and make it work, after a couple of years you'd be better placed to evaluate and to make up your mind.

Remember there is a lot of help on the forum and we'll all try our best to ask specific questions about the different places. Have you been here for an LSD? Maybe once you see how some of your family live you'd be better placed to decide.

We will never go back - I did a lot of research and visited twice before coming over, also I decided that if I do this there is no turning back for us - in our minds that is. I chose Brisbane for very specific reasons and I feel quite chuffed to live in a place that fitted my "ideal place" requirements to a tee, and I'm here for the long haul now. Now I understand why some of those trekker forefathers of ours named their farms etc with things like "vergenoeg" "rust en vrede" etc.

Remember too however that there is always the opportunity to move later - you don't have to stay in a place that doesn't work for you - Dedrei (and hubby) is a case in point, they've seen where they want to settle eventually and I'm sure it will keep them focussed and give them a lot of hope to cope with their current situation. I for one would not survive in the "wet tropics" and Townsville would get me down too, but thats why I didn't go there. Is it a bad place, no - it's just not for me!

Good luck and stay in touch!

Brissy BUG

Edited September 11, 2006 by chatterbug

[SASydneysider]

Hi Greener Pastures,

We've been out of SA since 1999 and have not been back. To be quite honest, we have no desire to go back, not even for a visit to our family (they visit us and love it here). We have tasted freedom and absolutely love Aus and Sydney!

Moving countries is a personal decision and depends on how resilient you are are also how attached you are to those left behind in SA.

I agree with Brissy Bug, weigh up all the things that are important to you, visit your family living out here and experience some of the lifestyle and then make your decision.

The decision to come is yours and YOU have to make it work, no one else.

SAS

[Annette]

There are just a few things I would add - In my opinion, there are some people who are probably not suitable for emigration. They will struggle. It is those people who, as had been said before, expect everything to come to them without making an effort themselves. They expect no hassle whatsoever and simply do not have much staying power or resilience. I'm not saying your SIL is like that, but attitude does have an awful lot to do with it. On the other hand, I have met a few people who very obviously suffer from some form of clinical depression - this can easily be brought on in susceptible people by the stress of relocating and all the related issues. However, trying to convince such a person to see a therapist or doctor about it, is almost always well nigh impossible - in their eyes, it is absolutely only and exclusively to do with the place and the people and nothing at all to do with them - it's difficult!

I'm not sure it is a small town thing, although I suppose it could be. Adelaide is often referred to as a small town in a city disguise and I can honestly say I think it's the friendliest place I've ever been to. We have been so openly welcomed and embraced into the local community, it sometimes brings a tear to my eye just thinking about it ...

To answer your question - NO WAY will we ever go back....

[Olly]

We left in 97 and have not been back, our parents have visited us every couple of years. It is such a good life we have here, you couldn't drag me back. There are just too many negatives and not enough positives about SA. You should not have to live behind bars looking over your shoulder all the time, not using public transport and only driving at night if it is absolutely necessary. That is not living. Here we have a more normal life the way it should be.

[Guest Sunshine Sister]

Hey there Greener Pastures,

Oh wow, I am so chuffed for you that you have had such a fantastic response. Every single answer thus far has had some excellent advice and valid points, fab !

1. Your SIL is absolutely right on the money when she says living and visiting are two completely different things. I used to love holidays on the beaches of Umhlanga.. would I want to live there ? Probably not - the humidity and bugs would probably drive me bonkers.

2. There is definitely a difference between plattelanders and stadsjapies. This rings true for Australia, South Africa, Holland, France, Korea, Japan, China, the USA etc. I see that you are in Gauteng. So you can think for yourself if you compare yourself, your life and interests to those of someone from Springbok or Oudtshoorn how vast the differences are, even tho' you are both Saffers. If your SIL is a city person and grew up in a place like Pretoria/Joburg in SA, I am not surprised at all that she is lonely in Townsville. I have a couple of friends who are reasonably unhappy with living in smallish towns in QLD. Common complaints are that the ppl keep to their own and because there are very few foreigners your choices for friendship are VERY limited.

3. Loads of ppl have talked beautifully about creating your own happiness and attitude being everything/very important. I agree with this and think they have all made excellent points, but I do think there is another side to the story. QLD girl said something very important (Brizzie Bug also spoke about it)

Perhaps the family member who lives in Townsville would feel different if perhaps she was also in let say Brisbane?

Sometimes you can be as positively buzzing as you want, you are just not in the right environment for you. I have been in that situation. I was constantly criticized by those around me for not doing enough to make friends, meet ppl and enjoy my new oh-so-fab life. I was in the wrong place, surrounded by the wrong ppl and I tried my butt off to change and fit in. *When I say wrong, I mean wrong for me * The more I did so the more miserable I became until I ended up not knowing who I was anymore (and still friendless, how pathetic is that ). I have never had a problem making friends and I have also been outgoing, but for the first time in my life I was up against a force I just couldn't control. Anyway, loooooong boring story. What I am trying to say is that yes, having a positive attitude, getting off your behind and taking the responsibility of making friends are all crucial. BUT sometimes despite all our best effort, best make-up, Queenspark outfits and maybe even plakkies to try and impress the local tribes we still can't manage to fit in.... Hmmmm, there is a point where we are allowed to say you know what ? Enough already with all the Pollyanna-positivity-am-I business, this town just isn't for me. If you didn't love living in Orkney/Welkom/ Sasolburg/Joburg/Durbs in SA, why move to the Orkney/Welkom/Sasolburg/Joburg/Durbs of Australia ? Unless of course you are up for the adventure of a lifetime, which I am sure you will get ! There is nothing wrong with knowing your limits and deciding to up and go to another town if the one where you are now after some serious effort, time and consideration is not working out.

4. Making friends and fitting in takes time. Give yourself plenty of time to figure things out, meet ppl and get to know your new surroundings. Don't expect to ever recreate what you had in SA, as your new friendship will be different and rewarding in different ways.

So in my humble opinion, your SIL is trying to protect you. I think she is over-reacting by telling you to reconsider your entire move to Australia, just because she is unhappy in a little town in QLD, but she is probably trying to warn you that it is not all plain sailing. I think she would be very pleasantly surprized at how happy she could be in other places in Australia. I personally wouldn't live in the platteland here in Australia, I am a city gal. The major cities of Australia offer an array of different ppl, with different backgrounds, interests, nationalities, religions, etc. I am sure you will be able to find a spot where you feel right at home, so many tens of thousands of Saffers can't all be wrong !

I don't think I will stay in Australia for ever, but I won't ever go back to SA. I am sure you will be very happy in Australia, and I find it very wise of you to carefully consider advice from family and friends.

Love

SS

Edited September 12, 2006 by Sunshine Sister

[Guest Noeks]

1. Who would come back, and why? Who would stay in Aus and why?

GP, I cannot comment on the small town issue, but certainly for my family and I, we would never return to South Africa because it just isn't an option, and that for many reasons. Australia to us is pure paradise, and we can honestly say we haven't been this happy in many years (again, for many reasons!). Perhaps its different for us, because when we first left Southern Africa, we moved to and lived in the UK for 3 years , and then moved here to Perth 6 months ago !! On a lighter note (and in my dreams), the only thing that would drag me back to SA, is if I could live on a game farm in the Laeveld, and at the same time, erase all crime and violence, so that I could "live" on a game farm in the Laeveld....!! But that's in my dreams. Australia will do just fine for now (and ever).

[Danie]

Hi GP and other members!

Are you happy where you live in GP...? What is it that makes you happy..?

If not, what would make you happy...?

Now repeat the questions as if you were living in Aus...

I think answering the above is the most important part of the decision to relocate. As The Bug has mentioned you have to work out were you will fit in....

Platteland or City -> these are world apart and a city boy won't fit in small rural place and vice versa ... SS said she is a stadsjapie...

For myself, I am a plattelander, no not a plaasjapie. I like the smaller towns. And some days it is difficult, the ways of doings things are a little bit different and there are less influence from other cultures!

Does not matter where you end up in Aus, there is enough room for all of us!

D

[Guest colton]

I agree with SS, so many tens of thousands of south africans can't all be unhappy. You need to find out where you will fit in, that's why I "personally" feel a LSD is very important. Most people speak about Brisbane as the place to live but for my family it is not the right choice even though Hubby's work is in Brissie. I love Brisbane, for a day visit or when I need a culture fix but not to live there everyday. We are settling on the Gold Coast, even though it is a bit of a commute for Hubs to go to work everyday, we looked at all aspects and decided we prefer the quiter towns, near enough to the city but not too close, and the surf was very important to all of us so that's what helped us make our decision.

Maybe your SIL would prefer the city life as mentioned before, and then she would be happier? We have close family living in Perth, last 15 years, who absolutely love it but my family didn't like it too much, all it says is that Perth is not for "my" family. I know someone who lives on the Gold Coast and they are not too happy either, they came from the Berg and the humidity of the coast is not something they are enjoying. All I hear from them are constant complaints!! I agree with SS if you aren't happy move when you are able to, to somewhere you will enjoy. Each of us will be able to find our own little piece of sunshine.

[Riekie]

Who would stay in Aus and why?

What an interesting thread! Thanks for starting it!

As far as going or staying goes, I for one (with my family) will definitely stay! Why? (Why not?! If I had to sum it up in 2 words... ) To give you a fair opinion I'll elaborate a bit: (and this is seriously being realistic):

I do not feel that my kids have a future in South Africa. Yes, coming here did have an emotional impact on them, but they are now so fully integrated, settled and adjusted that it would be unfair to uproot them once again (a reason for not considering going back....) In fact they have thanked us for the life they have here and even given the opportunity to go back, would not give it another thought. This is their life and future now.

I feared for my life and that of my family. I lived in fear bordering on paranoïa because of what I had to witness, experience and hear/read about 24/7 in South Africa. Many times I went to the local SPAR to buy a few things and would be so overcome with fear of a robbery that I would leave everything, get to my car and go home without buying anything! I could no longer be outside my house without my firearm and panic button on me - we had a lovely outdoor entertainment area which I would not use during the day because I was scared someone would jump over the wall and murder/rape me and my daughter. I had to use prescription sleeping tablets as I was unable to fall asleep for fear of what might happen during the night, and I would wake at every little sound ten times a night. Fear was my life and no-one can live like that. I will NEVER go back to that.

These are my main two reasons for firstly coming here, and secondly for staying here. There's many more I can share, but that would keep you reading for the next few hours. It is really not easy to emigrate and it is not easy starting a new life from scratch in a foreign country where even the peanut butter looks and tastes different! We had many struggles - financially, emotionally and even mourning the loss of our past and everything which made up our lives since birth (still do). But even at our lowest low in Aus, going back was never an option. It is difficult and a long hard road, but is is worth it through and through!

[Greener pastures]

Wow, what wonderful replies!!! Thank you so much!!!!

To everyone still wondering, 95% of people I talk to said that going back to SA is not an option.

I can not wait to leave! The snail-pace of the application is going to drive me nuts!! Isn’t there someone I can bribe? Oh yes that is the SA way of doing things.

We are looking at going to Brisbane because my sister is there. I live in a small “city” in GP. The idea of moving to a big city is very exciting. So if anyone would be looking to sponsor an IT-guru (hubby) from SA it would be much appreciated.

(I hope he reads this... )

[Jimmy]

So many different views and great advice. Well perhaps because it's in it's early stages for me, but I am really, really going to miss my family (mum, 2sis, 2 bro's & other fam (in-laws) and friends) and from where I stand that would be the reason I come back to VISIT, as Riekie said, I'm going to move my kids and would not embark on a mass exodus again as it would impact on them negatively, so doing the return thing later would possibly not be an option for us as well, yes amongst other things. I have read articles on sites etc that likended emigrating to "the loss of a loved one" and they have strongly suggested councilling. I will diff go for councilling. We are also going to a small town, Canberra, and it does not fit my Citygirl profile, but then nothing about this move fits my profile. I'v identified activities for us to keep us occupied, my kids and I play hockey, hubby loves to gym, so I'v earmarked sports clubs for us to join and am looking for a gym for hubby and we going to ride bikes. My son asked me if I'm sure we'll have enough time in the day to do all I plan on doing. Lastly, sorry guys this is my only frame of reference I can't relate anything in my life without this balance, so here goes,1. Prayer for God's leading and commit ur plans to HIM, 2. start praying now already for God to send good friends ur way and ur kids way and for peace to reign in ur hearts, perhaps give your sil that advice to and HE will honour that because HE says so....

Psalms 32:8 I will instruct you and teach you in the way you should go; I will guide you with My eye.