Greener pastures Posted August 29, 2006 Report Share Posted August 29, 2006 Hi,Now don't send me any hate mail. I am still old school when it comes to discipline. So please tell me if I will be arrested if I give my children a smack on the bum when needed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mara Posted August 29, 2006 Report Share Posted August 29, 2006 These are the only links I could find for you. Hope they get closer to clarifying the situation regards smacking.http://www.nospank.net/n-g91.htmhttp://www.ag.gov.au/agd/www/Agdhome.nsf/P...OpenDocument#c5Halfway down the page you will find point number 184, titled"Corporal Punishment" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riekie Posted August 29, 2006 Report Share Posted August 29, 2006 My kids are older, so I would not know what the law in Aus says about that. What I DO know is that smacking your child is frowned upon by others and that the Aussies take a completely different approach to discipline (which, in my opinion is obviously NOT effective!!). I'm not against the odd smack on the bum if the situation requires it, but also believe that there are many other ways in which to get the message across. I can count on my one hand the number of times I had to smack my kids and they are absolutely lovely kids, still receiving complements on their behaviour wherever they go. As far as the law on it goes here in Aus, I'm sorry I can not be of any help.... Maybe someone else knows, as it would actually be interesting to know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sunshine Sister Posted August 29, 2006 Report Share Posted August 29, 2006 So please tell me if I will be arrested if I give my children a smack on the bum when needed?Hi there Greener pastures,Welcome to our forum. It is perfectly legal to give your child a smack on the bum as needed, provided it is on the bum and just a slight smack. I would also refrain from smacking in public, as the law does seem to draw a line between corporal punishment in private places vs public.Corporal punishment in the home is regulated at state rather than at federal level, and is lawful throughout Australia under the right of “reasonable chastisement” or similar (Australian Capital Territory Child Welfare Ordinance, 1957, section 124; Northern Territory Criminal Code Act section 27; Queensland Criminal Code Act, 1899, section 280; South Australia Criminal Law Consolidation Act, 1935, section 39 and subsequent amendments; Tasmania Criminal Code Act, section 50; Western Australia, Criminal Code Act, 1913, section 257; Victoria under common law rule).In New South Wales, under the Crimes Amendment (Child Protection – Physical Maltreatment) Act (2001, in effect 2002), inserting section 61AA into the Crimes Act (1900), physical punishment by a parent or caregiver is considered unreasonable if the force is applied to a child’s head or neck, or the force is applied to any part of the body in such a way as to cause, or threaten to cause, harm to the child which lasts more than a short period, and in such cases the defence of “lawful correction” does not apply.More info hereHope this helps.LoveSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greener pastures Posted August 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2006 Hi,Thanks for the replies, guys. I must just clarify something. I don't beat my kids half to death!! I have two very, very active, but beautiful toddlers. I was just talking about the odd smack when you need to get a message trough immediately. I feel a little ashamed that people would think otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sunshine Sister Posted August 30, 2006 Report Share Posted August 30, 2006 I feel a little ashamed that people would think otherwise.Hey there,Don't even worry about it. I actually found it an interesting question and wish more Australian parents knew of the zap-on-the-butt-to-get-immediate-attention method. It could make a world of difference to the decibel levels in public places !! Even possibly allowing Riekie and I to hear each other during our coffee mornings. Maybe you can come and introduce it to the local tribes, DU !! You could see it as volunteer work, a kind of community service if you will.. (Please feel free to start your quest in my community !! )LoveSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamcatcher Posted August 30, 2006 Report Share Posted August 30, 2006 Hi there Greener pastures,Don't stress too much about it. Us forumites are (mostly) levelheaded people, and if you read our posts regarding children, you will see that we all believe in discipline, whatever form it takes is up to you. Being from a stern Afrikaner background I think most of us is well accustomed to a burning backside, and the results it heeded. Thanks for SS and Mara for the guidelines, I was wondering too, as my kids can sometimes be a handful. I did not want the law to arrive on my doorstep!Greetings,Dreamy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Noeks Posted August 30, 2006 Report Share Posted August 30, 2006 Well guys, I have a h-u-g-e "paplepel" that I have (on show), and have had for many, many years now - and I bought this "pappie" in Botswana from a delightful "ma" on the side of the road. I have never had need to use it, God be my witness, however, it speaks volumes when presented on throwing of tantrums / ill behaviour. etc..... This, and the narrowing of my eyes, have had a remarkable effect on my gorgeous, and may I hasten to add , well-disciplined children, who also, to this day, receive compliments on their good behaviour and manners!!!!! I heard on the radio just this week, on Perth's 96, that there are these ignorant people (didn't quite catch which organisation), who think they know how to discipline children, that are trying to enforce a law that states you shall not (in the future) be allowed to say "NO" to a child - ag, shame, what a bunch of plonkers. And then they wonder what is becoming of our youth... Like one of the DJ's said, wonder if any of them ever brought up a 2 year old! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riekie Posted August 30, 2006 Report Share Posted August 30, 2006 who think they know how to discipline children, that are trying to enforce a law that states you shall not (in the future) be allowed to say "NO" to a child - ag, shame, what a bunch of plonkers. I agree - is it not ridiculous!!! I mean REALLY!!! Look, I can carry on forever about all this but I might find myself escorted to the airport and out of this country!! Wait 'till I get my PR...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olly Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 You don't want to meet any of the kids in the UK. They are so cheeky and just down right skelm. They have no respect for other people or their property, it is shocking. There is a very strong culture of the kids calling the shots and making the decisions over there, no dicipline what so ever and some very spoilt kids who are making their parents lives a living hell. For me, experiencing that was enough proof that the occassional pat on the bum goes a very long way. My kids are normal happy little rascals but they know who is boss and sometimes even listen to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Noeks Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 You don't want to meet any of the kids in the UK. They are so cheeky and just down right skelm. They have no respect for other people or their property, it is shocking. There is a very strong culture of the kids calling the shots and making the decisions over there, no dicipline what so ever and some very spoilt kids who are making their parents lives a living hell.I can vouch for that - we spent three years in the UK, and I worked at my daughter's primary school for two of those three years - an experience I do not wish to repeat, especially with regards to the kids' blatant lack of discipline There were many, many a time that I could quite happily of moer'd them, one shot. But I say in the same breath, as strict as I was with them, they absolutely adored me, and many cried when I left. Children crave discipline. They cry out for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindy-Lee Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 Ok here goes...if anyone gives you hassles cause you give your child a spanking when needed, then you can quote this.... Proverbs 23 verse 13:"Don't hesitate to discipline children. A good spanking won't kill them. As a matter of fact, it may save their lives." I was very tempted to use the verse for my baby's christening, but not sure everyone would see the funny side of it.... Lindy-Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Noeks Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 Proverbs 23 verse 13:"Don't hesitate to discipline children. A good spanking won't kill them. As a matter of fact, it may save their lives."Lindy-Lee Oh so true... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jules Posted August 31, 2006 Report Share Posted August 31, 2006 ...wish more Australian parents knew of the zap-on-the-butt-to-get-immediate-attention method. It could make a world of difference to the decibel levels in public places !!Phew, I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way! The screaming kids in the shopping malls can really put a damper on a girls' favourite pastime. Well guys, I have a h-u-g-e "paplepel" that I have (on show), and have had for many, many years nowHehehe Noeks, I had the same thing back when my kids were younger. It's a wonderful bargaining tool. I think at the end of the day it doesn't really matter what method you use to discipline your child (within reason of course), as long as you have a system and you stick to it. An undisciplined child is an unhappy child, they need to have boundaries, even though they push them from time to time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greener pastures Posted September 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 Hi Guys,I am so glad I am not alone!! There are other parents that believe that a ‘paplepel’ still had a place in the home. And that it is NOT cruel but KIND to give the occasional smack on the bum. Thanks. But I have to say that when my parents did their LCD they found the Aus kids well behaved. Or was this just a once off occurrence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annette Posted September 6, 2006 Report Share Posted September 6, 2006 Sigh.... well, here goes.... My opinion, if you do feel the need to physically punish a child: Anyone who uses pain to discipline a child under the age of 4 should really think very long and hard about what they're doing...Anyone who uses an implement to spank their child should think long and hard about what they're doing...Anyone who uses physical punishment more often than about once a month should think long and hard - it's obviously not doing the job: if it doesn't work, why carry on - find a more effective form of disciplining...Anyone who beats a child above the age of 12 is probably doing more damage than good...That's just my penny'orth... In my experience, the calmer the parents, the calmer the children and lowering your voice when the child raises theirs totally puts a spanner in the works... the more they lose control, the more you need to retain control... none of this IMHO can happen when violence is involved... this is too often something that is inflicted when the parent "loses it". Love, love, love and accept your children unconditionally...I'm not saying any of the above posters have any of the problems I mentioned, at all. I will defend tooth and nail any parent's choice of method of discipline, because the most important of all is that discipline does need to play a strong part in the upbringing of children. I'm absolutely uncompromising when it comes to my children's manners, respect for others, being trustworthy and reliable, hard working, not breaking the law, etc. and they are punished consistently and quite harshly. It's just that I prefer to be in control of the situation and my own responses and emotions and I don't think it can happen (in our case, anyway) when physical discipline in involved. I prefer to use the carrot, not the stick ... Greener Pastures: by and large, we have found the Aussie kids absolutely delightful, but believe me, there are exceptions! Mind you, after spending 7 years in the UK, I think most kids would look like angels to me . I worked in a school there and I work in a school here and although it's probably not fair to compare the two because the demographics were very different, I have to say that the biggest difference we have found is that the teachers here never, ever, ever shout at the kids. They are calm, in control and respectful towards the kids, and get the same in return most of the time.... what a delightful difference.... and I can already see the change in my kids. Aggression is seriously frowned upon... whereas this was endemic in most aspects of life in the UK, in my opinion. Although the kids were hardly ever smacked, they were often shouted at, dismissed as annoying, or just plain ignored.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olly Posted September 6, 2006 Report Share Posted September 6, 2006 (edited) I agree with you in principal and wish it was that simple for me. You must have the patience of a saint (meant in the nicest possible way). I smack my kids on the bum more to give them a fright than to actually hurt them and try to be as calm about it as possible. I totally agree that love and kindness teaches a much more positive lesson than anger and violence but sometimes it is sooo hard to just walk away, take a deep breath and count to ten. I think you have put your advice across more clearly than I usually hear, most people are happy to tell you what you are doing wrong and don't follow through with the alternative method. Edited September 6, 2006 by Olly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annette Posted September 6, 2006 Report Share Posted September 6, 2006 Totally, Olly, I agree and I know where you're coming from.... it's not easy at all and we all slip up from time to time... that doesn't make us bad parents at all, neither are people who choose to use physical forms of punishment routinely ... just sort of trying to give another point of view.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riekie Posted September 6, 2006 Report Share Posted September 6, 2006 Annette, I do agree with you - you've hit the nail on the head! To give the odd smack on the bum with your hand is OK if the situation really justifies it, but I've never used anything other than my hand and can count the number of times I had to on one hand.... I also base my methods on rewards to educate & discipline my kids and choose applicable punishment to the "crime" eg. if a child empties your pot-plant onto your carpet, make them clean it up (even if they're doing a lousy job and you have to do the final touches later....) - it teaches the principle of facing the consequences of your actions. Something I'm yet to see evidence of in the Aussie kids - they grow up in a society where you can always blame someone else for whatever you do wrong. Getting a $1000 mobile phone bill and just blame the service provider for not stopping you from using your phone (AND expecting them to reverse the charges!!). Take porn to school on your mobile phone and just blame the school for allowing mobile phones. Run ahead against the teacher's instructions during a school excursion to the zoo and climb over a fence, getting slashed by a lion then blame (and sue!) the zoo for not having enough warning signs or more fences!! Like I said, I can carry on forever....!! Too many times we punish wrongdoing but don't award the good things our kids do. If we shift our attention to the carrot, it vary rarely is necessary to fall back to punishment. Also, applying your tactics age appropriate goes a long way eg a teenager NEEDS their electronics : the TV, Playstation, etc. Taking away their "electricity" instantly gets your point across..... I've actually gone as far as tripping the switch for their bedroom's electricity - believe me, it is pure torture for them! (And suddenly they rediscover other means of "entertainment" such as cleaning out their closet, reading and spending time with other members of the family! ) The best ever method is the 1-2-3 (fail-proof in my case) approach. Kids want to feel that they have choices in life and by counting to 3 before you take action, gives them the opportunity to decide their next step. The best thing is, that I've NEVER gotten to 3! They don't know what would happen after the count of 3, but they sure was not going to stick around to find out! Amazing..... and it STILL works!! I'm by no means suggesting that I'm the perfect parent or that my methods are the only way to approach raising your kids, but I CAN say that I'm reaping the rewards! (So I must be doing SOMETHING right.... ) I'm also not judging anyone who choose other effective & appropriate methods of disciplining their kids. (Just thought I'd add my own 2 cents..... ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sunshine Sister Posted September 7, 2006 Report Share Posted September 7, 2006 (edited) My opinion, if you do feel the need to physically punish a child: Anyone who uses pain to discipline a child under the age of 4 should really think very long and hard about what they're doing...Anyone who uses an implement to spank their child should think long and hard about what they're doing...Anyone who uses physical punishment more often than about once a month should think long and hard - it's obviously not doing the job: if it doesn't work, why carry on - find a more effective form of disciplining...Anyone who beats a child above the age of 12 is probably doing more damage than good...*phew* Whether I agree or disagree with the piece above is irrelevant. I found your comments judgemental and unnecessarily harsh. What works for one parent doesn't have to be the standard as children and situations differ. Results are probably more important in this case than the method used. One method isn’t necessarily better than another : I can quote you many psychological test results of the long term negative effects of the carrot/bribery approach as well as negative results from the smack-on-the-bum approach. (I am not talking about abuse, I am talking about Olly’s method of getting the child’s attention, rather than aiming to hurt them). Socializing a child in which ever form we choose to do it, will always leave some degree of psychological scarring as it changes their nature to make them socially acceptable. The benefits they will reap from the process should manifest in their being confident, secure, well-adjusted children capable of rewarding relationship with others.LoveSS Edited September 7, 2006 by Sunshine Sister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riekie Posted September 7, 2006 Report Share Posted September 7, 2006 I think we can all agree that raising children is not an easy task (with a fool-proof "how to" manual included). As long as we can live with ourselves in the way we discipline our kids and not have to feel guilty about our methods and as long as it's getting the desired results: happy, lively, balanced, well-adjusted kids, then that's OK. Raising kids should be fun (though trying and difficult sometimes!). Your kids should be your joy, not your burden! When they become a burden, then you need to re-assess your methods of parenting. Greener Pastures, you may regret starting this thread and think to yourself: "so why not just a simple answer to my question?!" - no need to feel that way (if you do), in fact you've opened up a topic for conversation very close to every parent's heart. It's good to talk about these things too, even though we may not all agree. Maybe more ppl can share their tried & tested secrets on raising children...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annette Posted September 9, 2006 Report Share Posted September 9, 2006 Riekie - that tripping the switch comment really made me laugh - oh, I know that method very well and also the unplugging the phone / modem method .... works well, doesn't it, tee hee.... Oh and the 1-2-3 method - an absolute classic! Still works with my 15 year old - 15 years on and she still hasn't found out what happens when I get to 3 - amazing! How and why it still works sometimes baffles me, but hey, who am I to complain? SS - fair enough, that's why I did say that it was only MY OPINION. Surely just as valid as everyone else's opinion? Totally agree with your "what works for one parent doesn't have to be the standard" comment. I don't think by reading back through my post that it comes across that I think my methods are the only valid ones? If it does - apologies, because it was absolutely not the intention. It was not meant to be judgemental at all, after all I don't know and have never met any of the people on this forum, let alone this thread, so how would I be able to judge them anyway... not that I would want to. It's just an opinion ... Sorry for having caused offence - not intended that way at all . Oh, and there's a HUGE difference between bribing (or for that matter emotionally blackmailing) kids and using what I meant by the "carrot" method. What I was trying to say and in an attempt at conciseness probably didn't get across clearly, is exactly what Riekie was saying much better - praise, thanks and award for the good things they do as much as punishment for the bad. I'm not talking material or necessarily physical reward - more of a "well done, thanks for listening, I really appreciate your efforts to make good" etc...Wouldn't the world be such a boring place if we all agreed? I don't see it as a problem not to agree 100% of the time - it can and should lead to quite stimulating and enlightening discussion.... It would be a shame if the impression was created that no one is allowed to disagree with anyone ... or else .... after all, the post heading is "To Smack or Not to Smack?". I assumed that that meant that opinions on both sides of the fence were invited ... Raising kids should be fun (though trying and difficult sometimes!). Your kids should be your joy, not your burden! When they become a burden, then you need to re-assess your methods of parenting. Pretty much sums it up for me as well... oh, and in no way being judgemental and not intending to insult anyone who does in any way feel burdened ... Jeez ... I'll be turning into a paranoid wreck if I have to agonise about every single word I post like this all the time ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sunshine Sister Posted September 9, 2006 Report Share Posted September 9, 2006 SS - fair enough, that's why I did say that it was only MY OPINION. Surely just as valid as everyone else's opinion? Totally agree with your "what works for one parent doesn't have to be the standard" comment. I don't think by reading back through my post that it comes across that I think my methods are the only valid ones? If it does - apologies, because it was absolutely not the intention. It was not meant to be judgemental at all, after all I don't know and have never met any of the people on this forum, let alone this thread, so how would I be able to judge them anyway... not that I would want to. It's just an opinion ... Sorry for having caused offence - not intended that way at all .Hey there Annette,No worries. You didn't offend me at all, I was just worried about some newer members and how they may experience things. You know I have always liked you and I have ALWAYS valued your opinions and contributions to this forum. What I like most about you is that I often don't agree with you, but still you manage to put your point across so well that I inevitably end up learn something valuable from you. I find that you always bring some needed balance and another perspective on things. Please don't let my comment put you off, debate and "both sides of the story" is most certainly (in my opinion too) the aim of the discussion. Sorry if I made you feel bad, sad or attacked in any way, I think that I may have ended up coming over harsher than intended (talk about the pot calling the kettle black !! ). Thanks for being brave and always speaking your mind, I for one have always appreciated it. Love, SS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest B H Posted September 9, 2006 Report Share Posted September 9, 2006 As this topic is so close to all of our hearts, I thought some of you might like my favourite poem about children by Dorothy Nolte:-"If a child lives with criticism, he learns to condemn. If a child lives with hostility, he learns to fight. If a child lives with pity, he learns to feel sorry for himself. If a child lives with ridicule, he learns to be shy. If a child lives with jealousy, he learns to hate. If a child lives with shame, he learns to feel guilty. If a child lives with encouragement, he learns to be confident. If a child lives with tolerance, he learns to be patient. If a child lives with praise, he learns to be appreciative. If a child lives with acceptance, he learns to love. If a child lives with approval, he learns to like himself. If a child lives with recognition, he learns to have a goal. If a child lives with sharing, he learns about generosity. If a child lives with fairness, he learns justice. If a child lives with honesty, he learns what truth is. If a child lives with security, he learns to have faith in himself. If a child lives with friendliness, he learns that the world is a nice place to live in." Dorothy Nolte, "Children Learn What They Live," I was given a copy of it at my baby shower 12 years ago and I've tried to apply it ever since. I think it sums a lot up. Enjoy, Bronwyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riekie Posted September 10, 2006 Report Share Posted September 10, 2006 While on this much debated topic of "to smack or not to smack" - the fedral government is getting a lot of pressure from certain groups to criminalise smacking your children, but a public vote indicates that 90% of aussie parents feel that they should be able to smack their kids and that it is an important parenting tool. See the Sunday Telegraph article on the matter here: http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,20386...5007133,00.html So, after all that, it seems like the decision would be taken from the parents' hands and that we will all have to use alternative avenues to get the message across..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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