What an Aaamaaazingly Positive Forum , this one is !

[Ray51]

You know , dear people , it never ceases to aaamaaaze me again , jis' what a positive-thinking lot all of you are !

SethEffrikenz ( Transvaalers , actually ) , I've always known as "can do" ( Boer maak 'n Plan ) lot , but exactly how bright , happy , optimistic and forward-looking ALL of the posters on this Forum are , baffles an old(er) sceptical cynic in long exile ( i.e. my poor self! ) ;

- so , for a little balance , I playfully visit various Brit-forums , addressing the life Down Under ;

crikey , most of our dear poms Never Ever seem to be able to stop whingeing , about their new life in Oz :

the wages , the CoL , the beer , the shopping , the press , the pubs , the footie , the bank charges , the monopolistic providers , the hairdressers , the bureaucracy ...mostly also : allegedly totally crap TV , nothing much to do when the sun's not out , speed cameras and so on & on & on & on ...

Yebo , I'll cut this short here ( for now ) , but :

any valued comments , to my above comparison , of SAffers vs. Poms , in Oz ?

[Guest Larry]

The Poms come from a working First-World democracy. Going home is always a real option if things don't work out. So they are constantly re-evaluating their reasons for staying. In any case, based on my own experience, Poms tend to whinge even when they are at home.

For South Africans, going home isn't a REAL option. We therefore prefer to concentrate on the positives and get on with life. We don't feel glad when we hear bad things about SA, but the bad news does tend to reinforce our reasons for leaving...... and for staying!

There are quite a few ex-SA's working with me. The generals consensus of opinion is "We have only one regret about coming to Australia. - We should have done it 10 years earlier!"

[Ajay]

Larry is on the button. I have quite a number of friends here from the UK, and they really struggle much more than we do to settle down. BUT - it's because their chief motivation for leaving the home country is the weather......not much of a retention tool once you're used to being warm After they've acclimatised, they notice the "poor" public transport system By poor, they mean that sometimes a train/bus can be delayed (whilst we SAffers still sit on trains with big grins on our faces, because there ARE trains). Then they complain about the petty politics - whilst we SAffers lounge in the glory of such a luxury. They also complain about the lack of sophisticated news reporting - whilst we SAffers revel in the fact that the news isn't all bad. At the end of the day, SAffers have a far more compelling reason to leave SA than poms do to leave the UK - and therein lies the rub. Weather just ain't that compelling a reason!

That's my 2c!

Cheers

Ajay

[Guest Lara]

You have read my thoughts!! That is exactly what I would have said.

I have lived in South Africa and I have lived in the UK. I don't want to return to either so I have to try and make it work here as I don't want to have to move country again. Luckily I really like it here.

The Poms come from a working First-World democracy. Going home is always a real option if things don't work out. So they are constantly re-evaluating their reasons for staying. In any case, based on my own experience, Poms tend to whinge even when they are at home.

For South Africans, going home isn't a REAL option. We therefore prefer to concentrate on the positives and get on with life. We don't feel glad when we hear bad things about SA, but the bad news does tend to reinforce our reasons for leaving...... and for staying!

There are quite a few ex-SA's working with me. The generals consensus of opinion is "We have only one regret about coming to Australia. - We should have done it 10 years earlier!"

[Guest Jules]

... but exactly how bright , happy , optimistic and forward-looking ALL of the posters on this Forum are , baffles an old(er) sceptical cynic in long exile ( i.e. my poor self! ) ... most of our dear poms Never Ever seem to be able to stop whingeing , about their new life in Oz :

the wages , the CoL , the beer , the shopping , the press , the pubs , the footie , the bank charges , the monopolistic providers , the hairdressers , the bureaucracy ...mostly also : allegedly totally crap TV , nothing much to do when the sun's not out , speed cameras and so on & on & on & on ...

Hi Ray

I feel pretty much the same was as Ajay and Larry on this one, however, having pommie blood and being a bit of an old(ish) skeptical cynic myself , I do hear where you are coming from. There are a lot of things that I am not exactly brimming with positivity about and I do sometimes have to keep my inner wingeing in check BUT in comparison to life in South Africa they are trivial and really not worth mentioning. I personally like the fact that this forum doesn't get too deep and political, there are plenty of other fora that do, I visit some of them too from time to time, but I think that it's refreshing for the average Saffer to be able to leave the bad news, the politically charged atmosphere, crime, corruption etc etc behind and ONLY have to worry about the beer, shopping and crap TV.

Love

Julie

Edited August 11, 2006 by Jules

[BeeTee]

To sum up the reponses in one line...

"Give a starving man a cracker..."

[Guest Sunshine Sister]

Hey Ray,

How's Belgium looking ? Things cooled down a bit yet ?

What an excellent observation and interesting topic. I agree with all that has been said, and add my R2's worth (which should be about 2c in any foreign currency ):

1. Moving to Australia is a bigger adjustment for the English than for Saffers.

Saffers are used to living on an island. We were isolated for years, and even tho' the rest of the world has so graciously invited us back in, we are completely isolated on our little tip of the continent. Not as if you are gonna hop over to Zim for a fantastically relaxing spa holiday, or Mozambique for a long-weekend shopping spree... Where as the English are right next to the diversity and luxury of all that Europe has to offer. Hop on a plane and within hours you are in another civilized, 1st world country with all things organize and fantastic. Australia must be a very isolating experience for the English, who are used to having everything a short flight away.

Saffers and Australian share the same kind of lifestyle. We are both nations who love the outdoors, are used to having friends over for a braai on a Friday night, watching the rugby, etc, etc. We share the same climates - we're used to hot summers, short not-such-harsh winters, having summer at Christmas time, days on end with sunshine and all that sort of thing. I think the English under-estimate how big the life-style change is when moving here. They (as Ajay already said) just keep their eyes on the sun - literally - and don't think of the lifestyle differences that come with the climate differences. English culture of being indoors / pubs / watching football matches while praying you will be able to pry your butt off the ice after the game, etc is a FAR cry from the South African/Australian natural, outdoor, beach, sunshine lifestyle.

2. Saffers are used to looking after themselves. We come from an extremely hostile, tough environment, where NOBODY takes care of you. From the age you can remember you have been reared with the knowledge that if you don't work, you don't eat. No use crying, sulking or whingeing - that's Africa. No space for the weak, if you're lazy, you die. Klaar - einde van die storie. Whereas the English come from a place where the State cares, as long as you do your bit and pay your taxes, you will be taken care off. In fact, if you are not feeling so well and want to take a couple of months off, why not, the State wil also take care of you then. Saffers are used to coping, head down and get on with it, while the English are probably a bit spoilt with being used to someone caring when they are unhappy. Could they possibly have a general cultural trend of whingeing more than we do…whether in their own country or elsewhere ?

3. Lastly I think it would also be interesting to note the ages of the ppl you are speaking to. I suspect you may find that the English you are speaking to may be older ? They may also have only come to Australia at an older age, possibly with retirement in mind, therefore finding it harder to adjust to the huge difference in lifestyle from what they have grown used to. While Saffers generally come here much younger, keen to create a better life for them and their children, and therefore also younger and probably still more flexible to roll with it and adapt to the (lesser) changes they have to make in order to fit into Aussie society.

There you have it, my R2’s worth.. chat again soon.

Love from here

SS

[Olly]

You all hit the nail on the head. We went to England first for a few years before coming here. It is first world in the UK but we also wanted the nicer weather of Oz and fewer people. We were lucky we had the choice. I think the Poms come here expecting it to be like a holiday in Spain and struggle when they realise that everyday life, school run, grocery shopping, the boring stuff, etc. is just the same as the UK. They also realy struggle with missing family and friends whereas we mentally leave all that baggage behind and start fresh because it is not an option for us to move back especially if we have kids.

[BeeTee]

2. Saffers are used to looking after themselves. We come from an extremely hostile, tough environment, where NOBODY takes care of you. From the age you can remember you have been reared with the knowledge that if you don't work, you don't eat. No use crying, sulking or whingeing - that's Africa. No space for the weak, if you're lazy, you die. Klaar - einde van die storie. Whereas the English come from a place where the State cares, as long as you do your bit and pay your taxes, you will be taken care off. In fact, if you are not feeling so well and want to take a couple of months off, why not, the State wil also take care of you then. Saffers are used to coping, head down and get on with it, while the English are probably a bit spoilt with being used to someone caring when they are unhappy. Could they possibly have a general cultural trend of whingeing more than we do…whether in their own country or elsewhere ?

BAIE waar...twee uitdrukkings spring te gedagte:

"HOU JOU BEK EN VREET JOU PAP!!!" en "KANNIE MEE NIE KOPPERAAL!!"

Dis maar die SA mentality...

[Annette]

I'm a member of a Brit forum for expats in Adelaide, and I had a major blowout yesterday because of all the whingeing. One can take only so much.... I think this is one of the most important reasons why we left the UK after 7 years, because it really wasn't the weather! It's only because the Poms moan so much about their weather that the rest of the world are under the impression that it's so bad . I just couldn't face my children growing up in such a negative, selfish and glass-half empty society and knowing that they will probably end up a bit like that themselves, despite my best efforts.

I think all of the above points are valid, but I have also met quite a few Pommies who are quite happily settled here and no sign of the afflictions of their fellow (ex)countrymen. I have a suspicion that a large proportion of the people who frequent these forums are those who are struggling to settle and need the support of people who are going through the same and therefore sort of air their grievances to a sympathetic audience... There are many people who just get stuck in and get on with the job of settling and carving a niche for themselves - Poms included. Then there are those who just enjoy a good old Skinder....

SS - sadly in my experience age does not have that much to do with it - it just seems to be one of those endemic "conditions" .... but I don't think it's genetic - I have a fair bit of Pom blood flowing through my veins!

[Guest Sunshine Sister]

SS - sadly in my experience age does not have that much to do with it - it just seems to be one of those endemic "conditions" .... but I don't think it's genetic - I have a fair bit of Pom blood flowing through my veins!

Hey everyone,

*phew* Annette, glad to hear it !! Only reason why I think this, is because the Pom parents I have met at school aren't whiners at all (as badly ?) but they have all come here during their 20's early 30's and seem to adapt well to life DU, making friends and fitting in to the daily hustle and bustle.

Good point Olly, I suspect you are on to something there !

BeeTee, I had such a lekker laugh at your comments. Made me think of one of hub's favourite ones :

Light-duties klim uit !! Maybe that's what they are, our pale and Pommish brethren ?

Light-duties ??

Maybe the adjustment is equal for all, but we are just so much tougher ?

Love

SS