Once we were a Nation

[Guest Mauritz]

I'm hugging Mrs Chardonnay and I wonder - how am I going to write this without upsetting the PCKKKB (Political Correct Kaalvoet Klooster Koek Brigade). How am I going to word this, so that I don't upset the 'average normal' Southern African???

Once we were a nation ..........................................................................????? What went wrong?????

The Dutch landed ....... built their thorny hedges .......... separation. Then the mixed grill was born - they loved Africa and they went ........... f@ck the Dutch. Later and much, much later the mixed grill - the Boer - met the African ................ fire works ............. separation................... but they stayed. Why???? They loved Africa, they knew nothing else.

The British came ................ the mighty world power .................. fire works ................. separation, these stupid Africans and bloody illiterate Boers. The mixed grill were a tough bunch. The British left, but so many stayed. Why???? They loved Africa ........... they can tolerate the mixed grill and the African.

The African came from the north and met the mixed grill and the British .................... fire works ............ separation. Now all live in Southern Africa. Why???? They all love Africa.

The southern tip of Africa belongs to who????? I have more right to live in southern Africa than the Aussie in Aus, the Nz'lander in Nz, the white American in America, the white Canandian in Canada etc., etc. I don't live in Africa. Why?????

Once we were a Nation .........................................................................????? What went wrong????

Everybody is angry ........... everyone is upset. Everybody blames ........... no solutions.

I look at Isreal - they don't bow, they don't retreat - they keep on fighting. Southern Africa is a war zone, but nobody is noticing. Once we were a nation - now we're scattered - all pulling this way and that way. What went wrong?????

Africa cries ............... very little hope. The world looks this way and that way - nobody cares anymore. Tough times ahead for the world - never mind Africa. What is going to happen - all the children????

Once we were a Nation????????????????????

This might all sound a bit infantile, a bit on the weird side, but .................?????? I am lucky, I've been living in Aus for 12 years. For most of the 12 years I've avoided Southern Africans. Why???? The negativity, the moaning and bitching, the arrogance, the narrow mindedness or head in the sand attitude. Suddenly things have changed - everybody is walking around with a thorn bush, looking to see through who's backside they can pull the bloody thing. Is that guilt?????

Personally I don't feel guilty. I was involved in the 'bush war.' I fought alongside blacks - all volunteers - fighting against blacks, who fought alongside the Russians, Cubans and Chinese. All my troops were 'non white.' Where is this guilt coming from????

Once we were a nation ............................................................... what went wrong????

Black and white are suffering in Southern Africa. Very, very ugly things are happening. Can't we all pull together - all push for change????

First your family - then your friends - then your nation - then the rest of Southern African - then the rest of Africa.

When are we going to stop to rip each others throats???? When are we going to act?????? When are we going to listen????? When are we going to stop the blame???????

When are we all going to stand together, pull together and have a strong politically and financially based 'voice'???????? When are we going to say enough is enough?????????

Once we were a Nation??????????????????????

Why the hell don't I just walk away from this??????? Why don't I just sit happily ever after in my 'blikhuis', on my 10 acres and fiddle with my horses - all in the wonderful land of Oz?????? Why do I bother??????

I am Africa - I am a Boer - I have roots. Africa is crying - mostly out of stupidity. Can I/we make a difference????

Once we were a Nation?????

Can we just cut ourselves off???? Can we just walk away and practice our new accents??? I DON'T want a new f@cking accent - I'm a bloody Boer - I'm a Suidwester. Can we walk away????? Can we forget?????

Once we were a Nation .............................................. what the f@ck went wrong?????????

Edited May 5, 2008 by Mauritz

[Blossom]

Wroeg jy Mauritz? Hoop nie jy het kop seer more nie!

Lekker slaap. More is alles weer beter.

Edited May 5, 2008 by Kannidood

[louw.pretorius]

Mauritz, ek dink nie jy moet weer so post nie, jou posts vat my hart saam en dan raak ek sommer depressief en hartseer soos ek hier sit.

Jy is TE wel ter tale. Maar anyways miskien moet jy poesie oorweeg, bg is amper liries (hmm of liedjieskrywer, eks seker ou Bok v Blerk soek nog goeie authentic materiaal en die immigrante-mark raak net groter)

[Nilo]

Sjoe......Mauritz???????

[Navigator]

Ai Mauritz, hoeveel kere het ek nie al dieselfde gevoel nie...

[Hennie-Pennie]

Ai Mauritz, hoeveel kere het ek nie al dieselfde gevoel nie...

Hi Mauritz. Jy is n ou wat verskillende opinies kan hanteer en aanvaarso daarom gaan ek eerlik post...

soos die namibiers se as jy eers afrika se sand in jou skoene het kom jy altyd terug. Hou die hart ooit op punt trek terug na die suide toe. As Mauritiz (n model ozzie-afrikaaner) dit na 12 jaar nie kan reg kry nie...waar le dit vir my. Moet n mens maar aanvaar dat die smag na JOU land n deel bly van immigrant wees? Moet ek dit dalk erken en aanvaar dat daar altyd n gaping tussen my hartkamers gaan wees...

Ai Mauritz. Ek was die naweek by my eerste suid afrikaner byeenkoms en dit was lekker..maar dit het my hart gebreek om te hoor hoe van hulle steeds so klas bewus is, steeds soveel haat ronddrae. Ons volkie is kwaad....ons volkie gaan nog vir lank kwaad bly...en as n boer kwaad is is dit beter om skuiling te soek...Ons mixed grill het sterk gene gekry...ons het die kaaskoppe se hartkoppigheid, die duitser se trots die engelsman se slinksheid en die fransman se passie...dan nog het ons grootgeword in n land wat jou toets en slyp en sterkmaak...maar ons het nie die vermoe om te vergewe nie... Ons kan nie, ons sal nooit nie.

En dan weet ek dat waar daar haat gesaai word is daar net haat te maai...Ek lees die koerante en jy sien die vrugte van Haat...mense maak nie net meer dood vir iets nie, hulle maak uit haat uit dood...hulle wil seer maak. Hulle wil skade maak... Daars n begeerte om wraak te neem...HOEKOM. Le die oplossing vir afrika nie miskien daarin dat dit tyd is om n werklike oorlog te he en dat daar n werklike verloorder is nie? Ek wil dit nie he nie want my mense is dalk daar tussen in vasgevang....maar hoe anders gaan daar ooit vrede kom?

My hart bloei vir my land suid afrika, maar terselfde tyd bot hy met n vroee lente bloeisel vir my pleegland Australia...

Groete

Henriette

Edited May 6, 2008 by Lelik

[Navigator]

Jy raak rerig 'n hartsnaar of twee aan Henriette...

[Nilo]

Mooi Lelik, goed gese en geskryf, uit die hart uit!!

Drukkies vir ons almal.

[Navigator]

As nasie is ons van ons trots beroof en sommige gee dit sommer net weg. Enige nasie het trots nodig, ongelukkig voel party mense skaam oor ons nasie se geskiedenis. Dit is egter nodig om te besef dat jy niks aan die geskiedenis kan verander nie. Mens moet trots wees op jou geskiedenis, of dit nou reg of verkeerd was om sekere dinge te doen, dit het ons uitgebring waar ons vandag is. Gebruik dit en beweeg aan, mens kan egter nie 'n nasie voortbou as daar geen trots is nie.

[Sean Udal]

Power, Greed, Negative Media and Mental Illness.

South Africans are prepared to spend millions on finding their ideal sports stars,

however neglect trying to find the right people to Govern their country.

South Africa has a wealth of talented people who could turn this country around.

The challenge is getting South Africans to vote for them.

I believe there should be a huge campaign where Headmasters and Business men

work together to identify South Africa’s top future leaders.

I also believe the SA Media need to spend more time and money teaching people

right from wrong, and present more positive news.

I personally, need a break from SABC and E-TV news. It is not good for your mental health.

When South Africa won the A1 in Oz, it did not even make the news on TV.

I pray that future generations turn this country around.

[Guest Mauritz]

Wroeg jy Mauritz? Hoop nie jy het kop seer more nie!

Ek wroeg nie - wonder net partykeer wat ons voer:

One evening a n old Cherokee told his grandson about a battle that goes on inside people. He said, 'My son, the battle is between two 'wolves' inside us all.

One is Evil. It is anger, envy, jealousy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego.

The other is Good. It is joy, peace, love, hop e, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion and faith.'

The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather: 'Which wolf wins?'

The old Cherokee simply replied, 'The one you feed.

[BasinOzson]

Mauritz jou storie van die wolwe is baie waar. Ek het so rukkie terug besluit om die "joyful" wolf te voed. Al kom die ander wolf soms nog tussen.....ek kom Oz toe sonder attetude en vol vreugde, maar sal steeds verlang na Afrika.

[Guest mrs mupersan]

You know, there's one thing I envy these Aussies. They have such a huge sense of their history. There are men who will stand up and proudly tell you that they come from 6 generations of shipwrights - people who helped build this country to what it is today. Everyone is so very proud of their history.

And here I sit, not even knowing what my real history is any more. The ANC has seen fit to "change" history books to suit their story. I'm sure that the NP also made sure their slant was put into the history books I learnt from at school. I feel as if, as a white, English speaking South African, I have been chased out of my country of birth (5th generation Saffer) - made to feel ashamed of my history. And now, in my mid-thirties, I need to learn a whole new history of which to be proud.

Mandy

[Legalbuff]

Hoe reageer mens op dié post?? Dit maak my angstig as ek sien dat Mauritz met dié wolf stoei, nes ek en my mense, en dit na 12 jaar in Oz. Soos Henriette tereg sê: Waar lê vrede dan vir ons??

Henriette, jy het my hart se woorde saamgevat in jou post.

Ek is nou sommer tranerig en hartseer oor ons geslag se lot in die lewe.

En steeds weet ek ons het geen keuse hierin nie. Ons pad in SA is afgesluit. Tyd om aan te beweeg.

My gebede sal wees met elkeen wat stoei met hierdie goed. Inderdaad: 'n Sterk volk, om die dinge te kan "vat".

[bienkie]

Hi daar

Ek dink ons almal is so bietjie hartseer as ons die post lees. Ek het nogal hoop dat my kinders eendag meer verdraagsaam en eengesind sal wees want as ek maar net kyk hoe lekker speel hul as kinders saam! Almal van alle rasse en alle kleure - net kinders. Ongelukkig raak mens groot en dan kom politiek en verskuilde agendas in die prentjie, maar miskien sal ons kinders as hul groot is, die goeie oue dae met kleintyd vriende onthou, en miskien gebeur daar tog 'n wonderwerk.....

Bienkie

[AReyeP]

Very interesting reading Mauritz

I'm not a South African so I'm not as qualified to talk on this issue, but I feel compelled to. I'm an Aussie who's been living in SA for 2 years now - married to an Afrikaner lady. Yep, I'm proud of Aus and my history. Funnily enough part of that history saw my grandfather fighting in the Boer War on the British side - my wife and I often laugh about how our grandparents were on opposing sides yet their kin are now married.

There's a lot of rich history here in SA and how it's being rewritten! Much of the new version isn't worth the paper it's written on though I'm afraid. The tragedy is that as a result of these distortions, many South Africans are now ashamed of who they are (or have been made out to be). Yet your ancestors worked hard and sweated blood and tears to build this country and make something of it. You have a lot to be proud of - don't let others make you believe otherwise. My father was into history in a big way and African history was one of his favourites, I learnt a lot from him. So unlike many Aussies and others in the rest of the western world, I wasn't ignorant to much of what was going on here over the past century. My wife's extensive knowledge of the history here just proves that my dad was pretty thorough in his readings. It's ignorance that has fed the rest of the world.

My wife loves SA and it hurts her to see what's happened to this country. Like you Mauritz, her eldest son fought in the bushwar during the 70's, and was almost killed a number of times. Today, he feels like he put his neck on the line for nothing.

You may disagree with what I'm about to say. I stand to be corrected if I'm wrong in anything I say - my apologies if I am. I go by what I have garnered from my father and my wife, and others I have spoken to on the same topic. But for what they're worth, these are my thoughts:

What went wrong with SA? If you ask me, the rest of the world and the politically correct stuck their noses in where it wasn't welcome. They had little understanding of Africa and the cultures within and had never lived here, but that didn't stop them telling others how to run their affairs. No surprise really considering this kind of thing still goes in the world today. South Africa, Rhodesia and so many other colonized African nations led the world in many fields and I don't think other western nations liked it. Certain powers to be in the world could see the wealth that Africa held, but how can you exploit this wealth when the governments in the region run strong independent economies and threaten to make an African continent that could rival any other economic power in the world? A united African continent could have been an economic and military superpower. Nope, better to keep Africa in a mess - much easier to exploit.

In South Africa's case, so many people like to point out the "evil" apartheid system was to blame for all that was supposedly wrong in the country. That's garbage if you ask me. It's just a convenient scapegoat that has been used to make the old system look sinister and evil. Nelson Mandela is made out to be a saint and no one dares question the means he and the ANC used to justify their end. OK, there is no such thing as a perfect system, and there are examples of excesses under the old system, you'll get that anywhere, but sadly these are the only things we ever seem to hear about. Do we ever hear about the positive things? Does the world media ever cover this kind of thing? No - they want to continue to paint a negative picture about the old system and a positive picture about the new one no matter how much of a mess the country is in now.

OK, so there was seperate development among many cultures in SA in the "old days". Is this racism? Is this a bad thing? The rest of the world certainly wanted to think so. The west seems to see "multiculturalism" as the new enlightened age, mixing all different cultures together in one big group and wanting harmony at all costs. Sadly, as much as it'd be great if it could work this way, in reality it doesn't. Some cultures/religions have conflicting beliefs or traditions. These differences can lead to confusion, resentment, clashes, arguments, even riots as one culture tries to impose its will over anothers or feels threatened by the other. I could give a heap of examples around the world of this kind of thing but I don't think it's necessary.

I think back to my home in Melbourne. Apartheid isn't enforced there. But isn't it strange how birds of a feather flock together? Just look at the Vietnamese in Springvale, the Nigerians in Footscray, the Lebanese in Brunswick. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and culture, but this is made harder when you're constantly having to worry about whether you're offending your neighbour by practicing your belief. So people will often try to stick with others of their own kind to avoid this kind of thing - it's human nature.

For those that argue and believe that there was racism and discrimination in SA, well OK, it's easy to argue the wrongs of this. But have things changed? It's still here, just it's worse now and the boot's on the other foot. As for those that point to white racism as the root of all evil, well it's strange that so many of the black Zimbabweans I have met and chatted with quietly tell me things were so much better under the old Rhodesian system. Strange though how they seem so afraid to admit this openly in the new "democracy". Funny too that many of the black South Africans I have befriended have told me in whispered tones they worry SA is headed the same way as Zim and were better off in the "old days". Why the fear to say it out loud? Racism/apartheid is always dragged up as the blame for everything, and all too often the poor old Afrikaner is made out to be the bad guy. However, while their are good and bad among all, I have never struck a more hospitable and warm people than the many South Africans I've encountered, and half of them have been Afrikaners.

I think perhaps the biggest mistake SA made was putting aparteid into law. It tried to enforce what so often comes naturally anyway, and it was easy to make this look bad to the rest of the world who knew little or nothing of the local situation. Just the kind of excuse needed for the rest of the world to launch economic warfare.

Anyway ... they're my thoughts. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm not qualified to comment on such topics. My apologies if I've offended or upset anyone.

Edited May 9, 2008 by AReyeP

[louw.pretorius]

Mate thanks!

A voice of reason is often found where one least expect it.

Any South African who said it straight - like you did - would be castigated and humiliated because "you are White" or "you racist" - most favoured.

I also find the most considered and realistic news and views of my beloved country in fourign media, maybey this is because they have less of an agenda??

Anyways, thanks alot dude for putting the facts on the table without a twist.

Enjoy your stay in our country - we will be waiting for you when you go "home"

Cheers

[TertiusVanZyl]

“History is written by the victors.†- Winston Churchill

These can be the victors of wars fought with weapons or words.

That is why the most important history, is the one passed down from generations.

Maybe there will be a version of history that can unite a nation.

[The 3 R's]

This is just my vent - copied my reply to another thread "Why not just walk away" under Money Topic. Thanks Mauritz for your initial post. My reasons for why SA is not what it used to be.....

QUOTE (Snowi @ May 7 2008, 07:50 PM)

Hi,

I'm pretty new here and have been reading a lot on the forum about finance etc. Whereas most people seem to be want to take money over, there might be those not so fortunate. Instead of cash to get out some have a lot of debt to leave behind (and like good citizens hope to pay off as soon as possible). But why not walk away from it: quit your job go insolvent (or whatever the correct term is), get the judgement and make a clean start on the other side (seeing that you credit record here doesn't follow you there) ?

So here is a hypothetical debt scenario:

1. 1 x Prime property, bought at a premium (last year sometime): if you're lucky you will just get you money back & break even: Debt=R1,000,000

2. 2 x Credit Card averaging R25k each: Debt=R50,000

3. 2 x Shopping/Clothing etc. account averaging R5k each: Debt=R10,000

4. 1x relatively new vehicle not at break-even yet (book value=R100k less than owing): Debt=R300,000

5. And just for good measure back taxes owed to SARS: R30,000

The total comes to: R1,380,000 (or R180,000 if the car can be sold for book value and the house be sold at break even which seems like a long shot in these times anyway - still R180,000 is a lot of money that can be applied elsewhere)

So what is the motivation for repaying this debt and not walking away from it? (If you are not planning on returning to SA soon - as I understand you could get a judgement cleared in 5-10 years (if you ever return) - again I speak under correction.)

Also I assume you will always be liable for tax (death & taxes) - again financial experts is this right?

I'm not saying there's no way around it - like renting the house, getting someone to drive the vehicle & pay you, repaying your debt from the other side etc. I know most people (me included) would try and resolve the situation, but I just can't help wondering what the worst case scenario is.

I would love to hear the views of our financial experts on this.

Thanks for allowing me to waste your time!

Cheers

S

Snowi - I see you have not been back to this thread, maybe you have been scared off by some of the replies ... I hope not, I hope you come back to read this and I hope after my posting you are not gone forever (there is a wealth of information here and there are so many helpful and wonderful people here on this forum) My intention is not to frighten you away - your question was after all hypothetical, my reply though from the heart - this after reading another thread by Mauritz - Once we were a nation, please read it. Sorry, but this is my vent !!

Why are leaving SA, the place of our birth, our family, friends, homes, beloved animals, belongings - everything, for a country that we have never been to ? Most polls say crime, for our children, BEE, the list goes on and on. What has happened to our beloved country (again, please read Mauritz's thread, it's heart stopping) I say, the breakdown of morals, the lack of consequence for your actions and the lack of respect towards others.

SA has become a place where if you commit a crime - murder, rape, steal, defraud, litter the beach, cruelty towards animals, to name a few - you are not punished for your wrong doing, no, in fact you are sometimes rewarded, the guilty have more rights than the victums. There is no example for our youth, the future president has been accused of almost everything but murder, but he will still become president. If you land up in jail, you pay a corrupt prison warden and you are back on the streets. There is no consequence for wrong actions - society has become accepting and in some way, people are influenced - some feel, "if others are doing it, why can't I. Others get away with it, why can't I."

And then the snowball gets bigger and bigger and eventually we land up where we are now, a country destroyed. Why, because there are now too many people (all colours of the nation) that are no longer able to distinguish right from wrong. And some who do know what's wrong (your question to start with), but decide to do it anyway, because why ? What's the worse that can happen ? You have a judgement for 5 years, so what - move along and start over in another country !!

Sorry, but I am gatvol !!!! I am sick of people who know the difference between right and wrong, who look at the consequence and decide - oh thats not so bad, I'll give it a bash - hope I get away with it !!

It's no wonder SA has hit rock bottom. Some of response posts actually spell out the process and answers to all the initial 'hypothetical' questions - was there even a consideration or thought that the initial intention was not to seek help or alternatives, but just to run away from it all ? That the initial intention was 'hypothetically' to commit fraud and that the writer of the initail post was aware that their actions would be wrong, but what was the worse thing that could happen ?

If the initial intention is wrong, unlawful or harmful - then it should be condemmed, not considered.

Sorry, but after reading Mauritz's thread, and wondering how my family and I arrived here, I gave some serious thought to why SA is such a sh!thole. I always placed crime at the top of any of my lists (you know the lists !!!), I am changing the no 1 spot - Our nations moral decay. No 2 - Lack of consequence for actions / no respect for punishment.

[Marius]

Africa, more specifically South Africa is like a rotten tooth. There are here and there good signs,it might feel even good at times, but it is slowlyrotting away. I decided to pull my roots from the rotting tooth. I will always remain part of the tooth in many respects, but have chosen to remove my roots and seperate before I am consumed by the rot. Immigration for me is like a root canal, it is not easy, painfull even, but is required to get to a better situation. The situation is better, here in Australia where we are shooting new roots into a healthy tooth. That show we see it. What happened in Africa stayed in Africa as far as we are concerned. Sela !

[Janneman]

I deleted this post. It's probably best...

Edited May 10, 2008 by Janneman

[sbhennops]

Hie Maurits

Van jou post ly ek af jy was by 32 Bat. Laat mens wonder of dit alles regtig die moeite werd was. Ek sit nou nog met 'n koeel gleef in my skedel, en wanneer ek aan dit vat dink ek baie aan daai dae toe ons sou staan en sterf vir ons land en sy mense. Dit is om van te huil. Hier is niemand om mee stories uit te ruil nie, niemand wat sal verstaan waarvan mens praat nie. Baie was nooit in daardie situasie nie, en kannie hulself indink hoe dit was nie.

Laat mens net wonder of dit tyd word om te se genoeg is genoeg. Dit broei in 'n mens, en is heeltyd in die agterkop. Daai vragie waarvoor almal so bang is (Moet ons opstaan en baklei??) niemand wil dit vra of hardop se nie, dalk is die antwoord nie die een wat mens wil hoor nie. So wat nou?? Nou loop en tob ons maar oor die dinge, en hoop stillitjies 'n sterk leier wys homself sondat ons weer ons koppe kan lig en se hier is ons wereld, en nou het ons genoeg gehad.

Hoeveel van julle worstel met daai gedagtes en is eerlik genoeg om dit te se. Dit gaan nie oor kleur nie, dit gaan oor ons reg op lewe, vrede, en 'n reg om ons mense te beskerm waar ander ons vaal is dit nie so nie. Dis maar van die goed wat in my kop elke dag ronddwaal, en ek is nie bang om dit te erken nie.

Steph