Attention Deficit Disorder

[peepee]

Hi all

I have burning questions, to which I need solid answers.

We are based in Pretoria at present. I have 2 girls aged 6 and 3. Our eldest is in a private girls school in grade 0. Her lovely young, in-experienced teacher has diagnosed her as having ADD. She has also been so bold as to state that our girl is extremely clever (Occupational Therapist reports), yet she has the maturity of a 4 year old. She has no choice but to keep her back next year. The ADD has been confirmed by a Pediatrician and OT. The alternative is to place her in a special school which will cope with her disability. We are completely opposed to this and have started Ritalin in desperation.

We are re-locating to a small town 4 hours north of Brisbane. Searching the towns' website, there are no special schools exept a school for mentally handicapped children. Our girl is everything but handicapped!

How does the Aussie system cope with ADD? Are these kids taught in mainstream education, like it was done 20 years ago in SA? Are the teachers more adapted to this than our "highly specialised young teachers"? I am so furious yet so concerned for my daughter!

Please give me good news... I would hate my daughter to fall behind in a smaller town in Australia. This might even keep us from immigration...

Advice will be welcome.

Peepee

[DesertDaisy]

I have no idea what the case is in Aus, but I did want to give you some encouragement.

My 10 year old nephew has ADD. He is also bright, but does not cope well in traditional situations. They have tried Ritalin and other drugs, and unfortunately, they don't work for him, though I believe they have been successful when used with other children in the right cirumstances.

However, things that have helped him include OT, special reading glasses, and a specialised form of neurophysiotherapy.

The way that ADD works is that their brains simply do not process information at the same speed as what others do - basically, their brain waves are slower. It just means that it takes longer to process the same information. ADD kids are often bright/creative in unexpected ways, and sometimes just finding the right combination of treatments can do wonders.

It is NOT a bad thing to have ADD. Richard Branson does. So does Bill Gates. It is suspected that Albert Einstein did too. Not bad role models.

I will ask my sister in law for some of the resources that she had - she did a lot of research, and what she has learnt may help you in finding the right school (in SA or in Oz) for your daughter.

[Riekie]

I can only share from my own experience about the schools my daughter has attended. ALL kids are welcome in the public school system and every effort is made to accommodate ALL kids with ALL abilities! They are integrated into the groups and special attention is given to kids battling with keeping up. In Primary school for example, for eg Maths, the class is divided into little groups where they all work at their own ability, speed & level. In that way, the teacher gets to spend more time with the group of kids who need a little more time & attention, and the little Einsteins in another group gets more challenging work etc.

In High school, they have a support class, where kids who needs support in any way (mentally, physically etc) are getting the necessary support and attention. For example, most (all??) schools are wheelchair friendly and if they're not, and a child lives in their "zone", they have to make the necessary adjustments to accommodate that child. I have a friend who is a school psychologist and she told me that when the school she worked at, were informed that they would get a child in a wheelchair, the school had a wheelchair toilet built, wheelchair ramps and even a lift to the 2nd floor!!! Believe it, because it is true!!

Then, I must share with you our own experience with our child. When he was still at nursery school, we were told he had ADD and needed to see a therapist etc. And off-course, he was diagnosed with ADD and got the packet of Ritalin. 3 Days later I decided to take him off the Ritalin because he was like a zombie! That was the best decision I have ever made because it later proved to be nothing more than a short-tempered, busybody teacher and incompetent therapist's opinion. Our son was perfectly "normal" and today he is a brilliant young man!

In my opinion, they should label the Ritalin packets : Replacement Love & Attention! Now, please don't jump at me!! I know in a lot of cases it IS a valid treatment for correctly diagnosed ADD & related conditions. I just feel that kids are too quickly "diagnosed" as having ADD by impatient teachers and sometimes equally impatient or uninvolved parents - the easy way out to force a brilliant, lively child into a little box. I guess what I'm trying to say is: don't just believe it when your child is diagnosed with ADD. You have the right to challenge that and get 2 or 3 other opinions. So many times the diagnoses has proved to be incorrect - which would be an injustice to your child.

Peepee, my heart goes out to you!!! I can feel your frustration & anger - and your hurt & concern for your daughter, and I can SO identify with that! I hope you find the right answers and the peace of mind you will need. I don't think you should be too concerned about your daughter in the Australia school system and even if her school does not live up to your expectations, there's always many other options. The support & resources in Aus for anyone with any disability - or in the case of your daughter's ADD - is really fantastic!

[Guest Sunshine Sister]

In my opinion, they should label the Ritalin packets : Replacement Love & Attention! Now, please don't jump at me!! I know in a lot of cases it IS a valid treatment for correctly diagnosed ADD & related conditions. I just feel that kids are too quickly "diagnosed" as having ADD by impatient teachers and sometimes equally impatient or uninvolved parents - the easy way out to force a brilliant, lively child into a little box. I guess what I'm trying to say is: don't just believe it when your child is diagnosed with ADD. You have the right to challenge that and get 2 or 3 other opinions. So many times the diagnoses has proved to be incorrect - which would be an injustice to your child.

Hi everyone,

Riekie, I agree with you 100 %. A family member of mine is a child psychologist. She says most cases of ADD and other disorders that children suffer from these days can be fixed with enough love, undivided attention, support, a caring nurturing environment, enough sleep, routine, discipline, structure, patience and a proper healthy diet where sugar and fats are limited.(can't remember the whole list now but those were some of the things that kids were lacking). Ppl label children WAY too easily, putting them on all kinds of medications to slow them down, and keep them quiet. Often not worrying about the consequences to the child, but rather focusing on their own sanity in creating a controllable environment. You have seen my two, very busy boys. Ppl have often asked me whether they aren't maybe hyperactive... Ag please, man. YES, they are Super active, guess what, so am I. It's obviously just in our genes (jeans ). Yes I know exactly how exhausting it is to look after two active little ppl, but I also enjoy seeing them play, learn and be active, isn't that what little boys/girls are supposed to do ? I also agree with you, there are REAL cases of disorders in children, and then we should get the best treatment available to them. But too many adults judge themselves to be experts and judge kids way too quickly, when they are actually just being kids who need discipline, structure, love and healthy food.

Peepee, I feel very sorry for you. If indeed your child has ADD, I am sure she will get all the care she needs here in Oz. I can't speak for the platteland, as we are in Sydney. At our school, they try to accommodate as many special needs kids as possible. They have 2 staff members who help in this regard, while the school doctor keeps an eye on the children's physical development, etc. These children, who have an array of different challenges are placed in normal classes, but also attend special classes where they are helped individually. Our school also has a gifted tract, where the wizz kids are challenged a few times per week, and these gifted classes also include a few of the special needs kids. So as you can see, our school really looks after everyone ! I hope you will be able to find something similar for your little one.

Good luck ! Hope things will turn out well for you and your family.

Love

SS

[Ajay]

Hi Peepee,

I can empathise with you completely. We’ve gone through all the same hoops as you, except it’s been with my younger son, now nearly 11.

In South Africa, he was also diagnosed by a bunch of ‘professionals’, starting with his teacher, at the age of 6. We also did the OT / Speech Therapy / Neurologist / Psychologist / Psychiatrist / Developmental Specialist / every other ‘ist’ in the province, trying to find a solution. We also tried Ritalin in desperation. All the labels and being dragged around to all the doctors knocked his self-esteem and his performance dropped off even more, and he acted out more. After days, or even months, of research, I stumbled across something called Applied Scholastics. This is where you need to keep an open mind. It is a study methodology founded by L. Ron Hubbard. Yes – that L. Ron Hubbard – the one that is the founder of Scientology. That word alone was enough to have me running for the hills, but I was at the point where, if they’d told me that standing on my head twice a day while whistling God Save the Queen would have helped, I would have tried it! After going through the books on what Applied Scholastics is, I decided to give it a bash and I enrolled him. One of the clauses included in the contract that you entered into with the school was an undertaking from the parents that your child was not on any psychiatric medication (read Ritalin). They simply don’t believe that ADD / ADHD is something that should be treated by medication – and can be addressed through other means. Whether or not you agree with that (and I don’t want to get into a debate about Tom Cruises outburst against anti-depressants here!!), it worked for my son. He blossomed at his new school and was a different child. His performance improved dramatically – there is no question about that. Unfortunately, he’d only been there a year before we made the decision to move to Australia, and the only Applied Scholastics school here in Sydney is too far away for me to get him to. He’s back at a regular school, and we are starting to see some of the same problems present themselves. We’ve found a really good psychologist though, and are hoping that we can navigate through this again.

If you go to www.appliedscholastics.org, you can find the nearest training centre / expert in your area. They might not be fully fledged schools, but offer training and additional tuition.

The other school that seems to have a different approach, and which seems more prevalent here (maybe because of the lack of link to a left-wing religion…) is Rudolph Steiner (www.steiner-australia.org) – they seem to be linked to Waldorf Schools as well. They also seem to have an approach that deals with the children as individuals, as opposed to one homogenous mass of little people!

If you want to PM me for more info, I’d be more than happy to help out as much as I can.

Best of luck

Ajay

[Dreamcatcher]

Hi Peepee,

I live in the "platteland" and have three "ADHD" (as labeled by teachers) children aged 9, 11, and 13. The eldest has grown "into" himself, and is now using his overactive mind in positive ways. He has learned to live with the fact that he is highly intelligent, and needs more stimulation from his environment. I just don't believe my middle child to have ADHD at all, she is just quiet and reserved, and takes a little longer to catch on than other kids. My youngest one is more of an active child, and has some difficulties in school. He was almost suspended from his pre-school at age 5, but we drastically changed his diet, and it helped somewhat. The two younger ones were "diagnosed" by the same teacher when they were in grade 3.

We left SA last year November, with a very nervous little boy, who was told he had to stay behind in grade 3 the next year, in front of all the other kids in his class , he was having anxiety attacks, so scared he was of his teacher. Lets just balance the scales and say that he is a handful. We landed in Aus, and there was about three weeks of school left. I went to the school to find out about enrolling them for the next year, and they were promptly whisked off to class, to start school immediately! They were placed solely on their ages, and I still wanted to tell the teacher about their "problems" and that he is supposed to be in a "lower" class, but they just told me that they would evaluate him themselves. They would not allow me to put any labels on my children, and I loved them for that. He was in school for a week, and came home with the "Star pupil of the week award" For fitting in nicely, and always having a bright friendly smile. That is when I realised that teaching in Aus, is not in any way comparable to teaching in SA.

My son is now in year 5, whereas he would have been in year 3 in SA. He is still having a lot of trouble, and having English as a second language does not help much either. Other than that, he is very happy, and that is much more than we could say in SA. In SA he was on Ritalin, and he teacher did not trust me, as she knew I hated giving it to my child. She kept the tablets with her, and gave it to him herself. It broke my heart, but all the "qualified" people were telling me that I was doing him more harm in not giving it to him, so I listened to them. He was suffering from a lot of negative symptoms, he would have headaches, and be teary in the afternoons, and this would last for as long as he was on it, and not only two weeks as they all assured me. I was so glad when I heard that our aplication for coming to Aus was succesful. I wanted my kids to have a clean start. My son was nervous and scared of the plane, of leaving his friends behind, of letting go of his dog. He was not a very happy chap. That soon faded as we were safely settled in our new home. I do not like Ritalin, but he is back on it now, under the supervision of a peadiatrician, and he is doing waaayyy better!

We have looked at alternative treatment options, but could just not afford it. It looked like the answer, and if I can afford it some time in the future, I will surely enroll him. It is called the Dore program. You go for an initial assesment, and then you have to go back every six weeks. I was willing to fly to Perth every six weeks, but the program itself is expensive. If you have residence, you can apply to pay it off in installments. Other than that, the teachers are all VERY supportive, and children with "learning difficulties" go to mainstream schools like all other kids. There are several program in the schools to support these children, like the Students At Educational Risk (SAIR) and English Second Language (ESL) programs. Other than that, I have enrolled my kids with Kip McGrath.

To get to the point of actually answering your questions: Your children are surely not handicapped. They should go to a normal school, and the support you will get from the smalltown schools, will be very good, judging from my own experience. I have spoken to a school principal from Perth, and according to her, the goverment is pouring a lot of resources into the regional schools, and believe me, you can see that. The teachers here, all of them who I have met, are highly qualified, motivated and passionate about what they do. Now that makes a great big difference, doesn't it? Even the very young teachers are great. I find that they have more patience, (or is it energy?) to deal with my children. Lastly I would just want to say that you should never compare what is "small town" in Australia, to what we know as small towns in SA. There is no comparison. Maybe you can compare it slightly to SA, 20 years ago, when things still WORKED.

Please feel free to ask if you have any more questions, and please, rerlax, your child is most certainly a lovely, normal 6 year old. And she is also a crystal/indigo child. (As Ajay said, keep an open mind)

Greetings,

Dreamy

Edited July 26, 2006 by Dreamcatcher

[Mara]

When my youngest son attended junior school in SA I was called into the office and told that he had 'huge learning difficulties'. They said that they were going to organise for the school psychologist to see him and that they thought he should attend a special school. I blew my top, like just a mother could, and told them they did not know what they were talking about. I had undergone a few years of child psychology studies and as far as I was concerned, and his doctor, there was nothing wrong with him. The school headmaster would not even consider that the problem may be with his teacher. With insistance from me, he was later moved to another class and all of a sudden his problems seemed to disappear. From birth he was a very independent child, wanted to do things for himself and may I say 'bump his own head'. I did not believe in Ritalin, but we did ensure that colourants and preservatives were missing from his diet. That youngster who supposedly had a huge 'learning disability' is today 30 years old, a Systems Engineer with a BSc Comp Science degree, well adjusted, and a son to be proud of.

I wonder where he would have been if I had allowed them to label him?

Mara

[DesertDaisy]

Peepee, don't take all the comments to heart. If Ritalin is working for your child, then that is great news. It doesn't work for everyone, and sometimes it can take time to figure out what dosage works best.

I spoke to my sister in law, and she recommends the support group www.adhdsupport.co.za. She has also said that if you need to chat to someone who has had personal experience (and who has done a lot of research on it), she is more than welcome for me to pass on her contact details to you. You need to just send me a PM, and I will pass them on to you.

[Ajay]

Peepee, don't take all the comments to heart. If Ritalin is working for your child, then that is great news. It doesn't work for everyone, and sometimes it can take time to figure out what dosage works best.

Hi DD,

I'm not sure what you mean by this comment - I don't think anyone here has been disparaging or discouraging at all? If anything, there has been an outpouring of sympathy and empathy from those that have experienced the same, or similar, problems.

Certainly, I have no problem with medication - I saw the improvement it brought about in a friend's child - but I do worry about the rather loose diagnostic criteria required for ADD/ADHD nowadays, and I think there can be little doubt that it is being prescribed in instances where other interventions could be as, if not more, effective. But I totally agree - where it is really required, the positive effect is dramatic.

Cheers

Ajay

[DesertDaisy]

Yes, I understand that Ajay, but Peepee may have faced a lot of criticism from others in the world for using Ritalin. I know my sister in law was told by many that it was just "bad parenting" to give their child Ritalin, and I wanted to assure Peepee that they should not take stuff like that to heart, thats all!

Thanks Ajay, for pointing out my comment may have come out wrong. Sorry. Everyone on this forum is generally very helpful and supportive - its lovely!

[Danie]

Hi to peepee and all!

Reading through the posts I have seen some of these things in my son. He is almost 10 and in grade 5. He was labeled as ADD and we were requested to place him on Ritalin. My wife and I just refused point blank. We then visited all the folks as mentioned by Ajay. Because of him being labeled he became difficult and we were basically forced to place him on medication. Now we used a different product... I can't remember now, will ask wife... which improved the situation, but did not cure it...

Then we moved to Aussie land and are currently on the "platteland" about 500kms north of Brisbane and he is happy in school. He has got a youngish teacher which assists him and encourages him and is a friend to him. And the best - she has not labeled him. I have spoken to her regarding labeling, she said that labeling is almost a no-no in Aus, and I should not worry about that.

Another thing we do - control what he eat, looking especially what has been put into the food... the baddies are preservatives and coloring. Try to steer away from any of those!

But remember, not all advice will be applicable to your child! You have to work through the different options/programs/schooling/medication/whatever and find the acceptable ground.

The people her have given you good advise but sadly or luckily not all are relevant or applicable.

Just remember you will not be in South Africa, the Australians treat the kids as something special and that goes for the schooling as well.

Be strong, there is light at the end of the tunnel!

D

[Dreamcatcher]

Good points there Danie!

Greetings,

Dreamy

[maggie]

Good points there Danie!

Greetings,

Dreamy

I think there have been very good points made - all very personal and meant for good intentions. I do not know what all the hype is with labelling. I mean, if it were not for the "labelling" we would not have got our son into an early intervention programme. (He is Autistic.) Sometimes you just have to accept "the label" as a medical term to get the government help that is out there to support you. Your child is still your child, and because they have a label does not mean you have to put a ceiling on their development. I do not think anyone was implying that, but I just wanted to share it anyway.

Edited July 27, 2006 by maggie

[Annette]

I don't have any children with this "condition", but did you see the Channel 9 programme last week about Fish oil (Omega 3 and 6) and the effect that has on children's concentration and behaviour in general? Some children who were diagnosed with ADHD have been able to come off Ritalin after taking regular high concentrations of Fish Oil every day. I remember a study like this being done a couple of years ago in the UK. A whole school volunteered to take part in the experiment and the children were put on fish oil for 6 weeks. The results were mind-boggling...

Two personal experience cases: A friend's son had serious behavioural and learning issues ... she refused to put him on medication and really struggled. He was just awful ... After she saw this programme, she put him on fish oil and tried to eliminate additives from his diet. I saw him about 2 months after she started this and I couldn't believe my eyes - it was the most dramatic transformation I have ever seen! It was like he was taking some very powerful drug. Two years down the line and she is still keeping this up and he is a lovely calm and settled boy now. It's like he was possessed by demons before, which have been excorcised - simply amazing! My husband is dyslexic, but also suffers from a form of ADD which includes hypoactivity and very poor concentration (almost opposite of being hyperactive). He found an improvement in his concentration almost immediately after starting to take fish oil (about 2000 mg a day). Quite apart from all this, it is of course also good for the old joints, heart, skin, etc. etc..... We are a very fishy family now.....

The other issue is of course, additives and colourants in food. I have personal experience with this as we had some behavioural issues with my son a few years ago - temper flare-ups, impatience, headaches and general irritability. I was at my wit's end until one day I read an article on research into the effects of food additives on people. It was a very detailed article and listed the additives which most commonly caused adverse effects and what these were. I was so shocked that I immediately started him on an elimination diet to try to find out what was causing the "issues". We concluded that the biggest culprit was a sustance called "vanillin" - it was like clockwork... the minute he had something with this in, he seemed to start acting up (it would take a few hours). It was almost like pushing a button .... I have been "experimenting" on and off since then with foods, as I don't want to completely deprive my kids of everything (it certainly seems that the only way to really eliminate any worry would be to home grow and cook everything - but who has the time?) . In my experience, the worst culprits seem to be breakfast cereals (especially those aimed at kids), chips and other snacks, certain biscuits, cold drinks (even those "juice based" ones) and sweets (chocolate, I'm VERY happy to say, does not seem to cause any problems ).

Lastly, and I realised that I have rambled on a bit (but I just feel sooooo passionately about this) - I worked at a school for 3 years ( and will again soon ) and we always used to joke that after lunch the kids were so much worse behaved. One teacher did an "experiment" for a week and checked her class's lunch boxes - the one's whose lunchboxes contained chips and sweets and artificial (or even Fizzy!!! - what the hell are those parents thinking???) drinks were almost without exception by far the worst behaved. My son's school felt so strongly about their concerns that they completely banned anything except home made sarnies (with healthy fillings, not Nutella or whatever ), fruit and water from the lunch boxes... the staff couldn't believe the difference and needless to say, stress levels went down proportionately ...

Edited July 28, 2006 by Annette

[Danie]

Hi there,

While we are still on the topic, I came across this from MSN regarding ADD & ADHD

There are some interesting stuff to read and some valuable tips!

HTH

D

[sonnetjie]

Hi

I haven’t chatted for ages. I’ve been extremely busy with my work and part time studies doing 80 hour weeks at the moment. Annette I agree with you the fish oils make a world of difference. There are two excellent doctors in Sydney that help people with ADD & ADHD & learning difficulties & allergies. Dr Marilyn Dyson in Sydney (5 Hesperus St Pymble NSW 2073 tel;02 9983 0484 fax 02 9983 0484 email: dysondsm AT ozemail Dot com Dot au ) uses sound therapy http://www.samonas.com/info/f_info.htm to help treat people with learning difficulties & ADD & ADHD. I have seen some excellent results in friend’s children and in my own life. She is not a big supporter of Ritalin and has found that using a number of other approaches have had some outstanding results. She has patients flying in from all over Australia, Hong Kong and Singapore to see her. You often need to go on a waiting list to see her but she is well worth the wait. I can highly recommend her.

Often food intolerances go hand in hand with people who have learning disabilities and ADD & ADHD. Dr Richard Schloeffel in Sydney, (suite 2, level 2, 802 -808 Pacific highway Gordon NSW 2072, Phone 02 9418 1388, fax 02 9418 1418) is excellent in treating these food intolerances. People with learning disabilities & ADD & ADHD are often like the canaries that were taken down in mines to show the miners when there was a gas leak as they were the first to pass out. Having the effect that individuals with these types of problems are the first to show a reaction. You can often improve learning disabilities & ADD & ADHD by changing people’s eating habits as everything is interlinked. Have a look at http://www.fedupwithfoodadditives.info/

[Norm]

Hi there... advice given above all spot on. As a teacher who was diagnosed as ADD when I was young and who has a very real problem with teachers that diagnose children as ADD and the whole SA school situation, my 2cents if I may...

Before you even listen to another word from your daughter's teacher go and do some research into the concept of "Indigo Children". Good web at www.indigochild.co.za. It will amaze you and restore all the hope and get rid of the fears you may have. Maybe you can find a school or teacher who sympathises and understands the whole Indigo Child concept... they are usually the best at dealing with true ADD children in any case.

Good luck and shout if you need any more info.

Norm

[Riekie]

Info on the DORE Program in Australia - they have a medication-free approach: (You can send them your details for a free DVD on how their program works - I suppose they would only mail within Australia, so maybe you can have it mailed to someone you know in Aus to have it forwarded to you...)

[sonnetjie]

If you looking for a sympatetic paediatrician try Dr Anthony Underwood he works at Pymble Grove Health Centre Suite 2, Level 2, 802 -808 Pacific Highway, Gordon in Sydney 02 9418 1388. He is a leader in his field regarding autism, learning disabilities & ADD & ADHD. I can highly recommend him. He has had some fantastic results that have been Ritalin free. I have been amazed at some of the results he has achieved. For those who are interested you can have a look at www.mindd.org he recently spoke at one of the mindd seminars. Have a look there is an interesting article under Disorders AD/HD it is a research paper on Outcome based comparison of Ritalin versus food-supplement treated children with AD/HD

Edited August 5, 2006 by sonnetjie

[strawberry]

Hello,

I am so glad I stumbled across this topic, my son is ADHD but truly a sever case, he has been on Stratera, Ritalin and now Concerta NONE have helped him.

I do believe now it must be the food and his immaturity.

We are migrating to Cooktown which truly is a very small town outback in Queensland I do believe it to be smaller than Magaliesburg:)

But I am truly grateful to swop the mad pace here at home for some peace and quiet.

Should know of any doctors in that area I will truly be grateful.

Regards

Tash

[Riekie]

I saw an ad today about an all natural supplement for DHA kids which is now available in Australia : Elaflex (www.planetearth.com.au or freecall 1800 064 953) It is available in capsules or liquid form and has apparently been very well researched.

[Dreamcatcher]

Riekie help, ek kry nie die regte inligting nie? Jou link bring my by baie oulike T-hemde, en as ek Elaflex Google, dan kry ek net pype en nozzles??? Ek sal baie graag meer wil lees oor hierdie middel?

Groetnis,

Dreamy

[Riekie]

Ek het nie die email adres getoets voor ek dit geplaas het nie - dit is soos dit op die advertensie was. Hou hierdie spasie dop - ek kyk wat ek vir jou kan uitvind!!!

[Riekie]

Hier is die pamflet..... Dit is by apteke beskikbaar en kos $59.60 vir 240 Caps (Ek het nou nie gekyk hoeveel die stroop kos nie.... sorrie, die koppie is partykeer maar bietjie in die wolke.... Ek het darem die Email adres van die bottel afgeskryf: info@efamol.com (Efamol is die Pharmaseutiese Maatskappy - hulle is in UK...)

[Dreamcatcher]

Thanks Riekie,

Ek sal sommer more gaan hoor of ons apteek dit aanhou, en sal julle op hoogte hou van die effek.

Groetnis,

Dreamy