Cost of living

[Dreams]

'n Storie wat ek graag wetenskaplik wil uitsorteer is dat mense sê dat Aus is duurder as RSA. Op grond waarvan word die stelling gemaak? Dalk kan die finansiële guru's vir ons sê hoe om lewenskostes in verskillende lande te vergelyk. Ek sou sê kostes moet as 'n persentasie van jou inkomste uitgedruk word. Maar nou is jou kostes in die lande ook verskillend, bv vir sekuriteit moet jy baie bataal in RSA en sekerlik minder in Aus.

Ek kry ook die gevoel dat mense wat in Aus is nie Aus se pryse met die huidige pryse in RSA vergelyk nie, maar met 'n jaar gelede se pryse en dan laat dit 'n skewe beeld. Bv. kruideniersware wat 2 jaar gelede R800 gekos het, kos nou R1100. Die goedkoopste kaas is nou R60/kg, maalvleis is minstens R32/kg en vleis hier by R60/kg ens.

So, kan die slim mense vir ons 'n formule gee en 'n opname maak, dan stem ons of Aus regtig duurder as RSA is.

[ottg]

Een manier is om jou besteebare inkomste in R en $ te vergelyk vir dieselfde pos/werk in SA en Oz. Alle uitgawes word dan relatief tot die R en $ besteebare inkostes uitgedruk en vergelyk.

Byvoorbeeld jy verdien in SA R35,000pm en jou besteebare inkomste na belasting R22,000pm. Terwyl in Oz jou inkomste vir dieselfde werk $12,000pm en jou besteebare inkomste na belasting $7,800.

As voorbeeld:

........................SA ..................OZ

B/I .................. 22,000.............7,800

Kaas/kg.............60....................16

% relatief...........0.0027............ 0.00205

Kruidenierw........1100.................600

%relatief............0.05.................. 0.076

Behuising 4slk.....4500pm............2400pm

%relatief.............0.2...................0.3

Natuurlik moet die produkte en kosmandjie inhoud dieselfde kwaliteit wees.

Hoop dit help!

Edited February 10, 2008 by ottg

[Duane W]

If you use the search function you may find something as this has been discussed many times allready read through this

http://www.saaustralia.org/index.php?act=S...te=Living+costs

and you may find something that will help you

[SAGirl]

Ek gaan elke jaar terug SA toe vir vakansie en ek kan jou nou se dat goed soos kruideniersware, klere, skoene definitief duurder is as in Aus. Dis nie 'n "wetenskaplike stelling" net gebaseer op gevoel. Jy moet ook onthou, hier styg pryse net soos in SA. Kruideniersware word al hoe duurder en ek verstaan nie die rede nie. Daar was nou die dag 'n insetsel op nasionale TV waar daar vasgestel was dat Australiese pryse vir kruideniersware van die hoogste gestyg het in die wereld, meer as in Amerika en Europa.

[Guest Ninja Turtle]

Een manier is om jou besteebare inkomste in R en $ te vergelyk vir dieselfde pos/werk in SA en Oz. Alle uitgawes word dan relatief tot die R en $ besteebare inkostes uitgedruk en vergelyk.

Byvoorbeeld jy verdien in SA R35,000pm en jou besteebare inkomste na belasting R22,000pm. Terwyl in Oz jou inkomste vir dieselfde werk $12,000pm en jou besteebare inkomste na belasting $7,800.

As voorbeeld:

........................SA ..................OZ

B/I .................. 22,000.............7,800

Kaas/kg.............60....................16

% relatief...........0.0027............ 0.00205

Kruidenierw........1100.................600

%relatief............0.05.................. 0.076

Behuising 4slk.....4500pm............2400pm

%relatief.............0.2...................0.3

Natuurlik moet die produkte en kosmandjie inhoud dieselfde kwaliteit wees.

Hoop dit help!

I would like to see you earn $12 000 pm in OZ , maybe if you are a director of a company....

The average wage in OZ is $40 000 PA ($3333) PM

I am at the top end of the IT market (company director), and after looking for work for a year, the best offer I got was :

Gross of $104 K PA ($8666 PM) before tax of 42%

Nett of around $5000 PM

A mortgage of $400 000 (which buys you a real average house), will cost me $3500 pm (over 30 years):

So I have $1500 PM left to buy:

Groceries - $800 PM

Petrol - $800 PM (two cars) @ $1.40 per litre

School Fees ?

Service Car ?

Entertainment ?

etc etc.

This does not include cars on HP, we bought our cars cash, I would not afford an HP on the salary I could earn

There is a reason why Australians have amongst the highest credit card debt in the world.

You would have to have both partners in a family working full time to have anough money to save.

Harsh reality unfortunately.

NT

[Navigator]

I would like to see you earn $12 000 pm in OZ , maybe if you are a director of a company....

The average wage in OZ is $40 000 PA ($3333) PM

I am at the top end of the IT market (company director), and after looking for work for a year, the best offer I got was :

Gross of $104 K PA ($8666 PM) before tax of 42%

Nett of around $5000 PM

A mortgage of $400 000 (which buys you a real average house), will cost me $3500 pm (over 30 years):

So I have $1500 PM left to buy:

Groceries - $800 PM

Petrol - $800 PM (two cars) @ $1.40 per litre

School Fees ?

Service Car ?

Entertainment ?

etc etc.

This does not include cars on HP, we bought our cars cash, I would not afford an HP on the salary I could earn

There is a reason why Australians have amongst the highest credit card debt in the world.

You would have to have both partners in a family working full time to have anough money to save.

Harsh reality unfortunately.

NT

Either you drive a lot, or your cars are not very fuel efficient.

I do however agree on living costs being relatively high here in Australia.

[Pippa]

Hi All,

...klere, skoene definitief duurder is as in Aus.

I don't find the clothes less expensive here in Australia. In fact, the clothes are quite expensive!!! We are going back to SA (for a visit) in December/January 2008 and look forward to buying affordable clothes.

I do however agree on living costs being relatively high here in Australia.

Agree!

Bye, Pippa! X

[Guest Ninja Turtle]

Either you drive a lot, or your cars are not very fuel efficient.

I do however agree on living costs being relatively high here in Australia.

We are running an IT consulting business, seeing clients every day, not sitting in a cushy desk job

[Tezi]

We arrived in Aus about 2 months ago. I was not prepared for the cost of things! We lived a very good life (financially) back in SA and I would tell anyone who is considering to move to Aus to make sure you know what you are in for. We had a paid off house and two paid off cars back in SA and could go on a overseas holiday every 2 years and at least one SA holiday a year. Once you are used to that kind of lifestyle it is hard to get used to starting over again. Things are more expensive here there is no doubt about it. I remember walking into Spar or Woolies in SA and seeing people with a trolley full of food. In Aus people walk with baskets and calculators adding up the expenses.

Do your homework about costs and be prepaired to start at the bottom again.

[Nilo]

Eish!! I been looking and reading and HONESTLY can not say that things are that expensive here and that we have to budget more!! And we are not earning a ginormous salary!!!

Food - affordable

Clothes - affordable

Shoes - affordable

Housing - affordable

vehicles - affordable

travel - affordable

long weekends away - affordable

shall I carry on??

[HansaPlease]

I am at the top end of the IT market (company director), and after looking for work for a year, the best offer I got was : $ 104k PA

I don't mean to be disrespectful, but to me, that is not top end of the IT market money in Australia. Department managers should easily be able to earn $110,000. IT directors should be earning $150k plus. Again, I say this not to be disrespetful, but only to point out to people that it's not as cut and dry as that.

There is a really fine balance in Australia - and it does depend on what business you're in, but wages can be very far skewed to the one direction or the other, depending on company, area, profession, size of the company, demand...

[Blossom]

Hi,

I must say I'm with Nilo on this one.

I find everything much cheaper here otherwise why would we live better here than there? And with some money left to play with and save? We also buy only cash, no HP.

KD.

[HansaPlease]

We arrived in Aus about 2 months ago. I was not prepared for the cost of things! We lived a very good life (financially) back in SA and I would tell anyone who is considering to move to Aus to make sure you know what you are in for. We had a paid off house and two paid off cars back in SA and could go on a overseas holiday every 2 years and at least one SA holiday a year. Once you are used to that kind of lifestyle it is hard to get used to starting over again. Things are more expensive here there is no doubt about it. I remember walking into Spar or Woolies in SA and seeing people with a trolley full of food. In Aus people walk with baskets and calculators adding up the expenses.

Do your homework about costs and be prepaired to start at the bottom again.

Again, you have to be careful of generalising on facts just based on your personal circumstances- sure, some people are worse off in Aus than in SA, but on the other hand, some people are far better off. It entirely depends on a number of factors - occupation being the main one.

Some professions are very well paid in SA, but not well paid here. And others are the other way around. For example, teachers or tradespeople generally struggle in South Africa, but do pretty well in Aus.

As for walking around with baskets and calulators in Aus - this is a very broad generalisation. I've seen just as many people walking around filling their trolleys in Aus, us being one of them. We're by no means loaded, but we don't stress too much about what goes into the trolley at the moment - because we've not yet started paying the mortgage and don't have kids. Things will change at the end of the year, change and we might have to start skrimping. Then again, I might get that promotion and earn a fortune. That's the point I'm trying to make - it's all about circumstances. Just because you're in a certain position doesn't mean others are.

I hope I'm making sense.

(PS, I very much agree about the part where you say - do your homework about the costs and be prepared! )

Edited May 23, 2008 by HansaPlease

[Guest May]

My perspective: (and I have not been to AUS)

Its cheaper in OZ not because of the monetary value because you enjoy a standard of living that does not come at the high price namely your personal security.

I had a PM from a forumite(OZ) this week and its was signed 'Please stay safe" which made me think....that it is by the Grace of God that some of us manage to escape crime.

My bottom line is:

Live modestly but safely than live the high life here and in fear.

[Enrica]

We arrived in Aus about 2 months ago. I was not prepared for the cost of things! We lived a very good life (financially) back in SA and I would tell anyone who is considering to move to Aus to make sure you know what you are in for. We had a paid off house and two paid off cars back in SA and could go on a overseas holiday every 2 years and at least one SA holiday a year. Once you are used to that kind of lifestyle it is hard to get used to starting over again. Things are more expensive here there is no doubt about it. I remember walking into Spar or Woolies in SA and seeing people with a trolley full of food. In Aus people walk with baskets and calculators adding up the expenses.

Do your homework about costs and be prepaired to start at the bottom again.

Tezi

Most people when they move over still convert when purchasing items, it takes you 6-12 months to stop converting. Firstly I take exception to the fact that you say most people in Oz shop with a basket.I shop just for the week (when I can) , I shop on specials, so perhaps I am one of those people that you see with a shopping basket.

The costs of food stuffs is relative to what you earn in just about any country. 10 years ago I paid $2.00 for a packet of Tim Tams on a LSD, today you can still get Tim Tams on Special at $2.00. I dont think the same applies to SA. If you are going to convert then convert the salary that you are earning to.

People are talking about earning $110K = ZAR825k thats a lot of money even by SA Standards.

I dont think that groceries are that much more than what you are paying in SA. We spend about $1000.00 per month for groceries and we eat meat 4 times a week. If you read past threads people are spending ZAR 6-7K in SA for groceries and just barely surviving. So now you are converting $1000 at zar7.5 , but just 3 1/2 month ago you would have converted at ZAR5.5- big difference. To bad that SA's rate of exchange is so bad, but you are earning dollars now. I still beleive your dollar goes further here in OZ.

At the end of the day, it all works out.

Of course when you move over you are going to feel the pinch. Hello , we all did .You had a house that was paid for and lived well. You have quantity in life in SA, here you have quality of life. If you life was so great in South Africa , you would have stayed in South Africa, but something was not right.....the safety of your family. Remember that there is no price to the safety of your family.

So what if you cant afford to go overseas twice a year so you will go every 2-3 years, but you know what, you are going to be alive to do it.

Cheers

Enrica

[Jill]

Hi

My 2c worth, I have to say I find things more expensive here in Australia, but you can survive. If you go to a coffee shop , 2 cappuccino's and 2 scones can set you back $20 which when you convert is ridiculous.

Food is quite pricey, meat not too bad, deodrants, toothpaste etc, I find very expensive. But saying all that, you can survive, I think because you aren't spending money on alarm monitoring, etc, car insurance is much cheaper, I pay $520 for the year and I drive a Toyota Camry 2006 with full house. So that is affordable.

Jill

[zorba]

Tezi

The costs of food stuffs is relative to what you earn in just about any country. 10 years ago I paid $2.00 for a packet of Tim Tams on a LSD, today you can still get Tim Tams on Special at $2.00. Cheers

Enrica

Hi Enrica,

WOW! Tim Tams for $2.00!! I can't wait...we bought a packet (at Pick 'n Pay) for the kids to celebrate our job offer, and paid BW Pula 30.00 (roughly ZAR 34.00). OUCH! Extravagant, yes, but we couldn't exactly offer them champagne now could we?! LOL

And I agree, you should compare apples with apples, and STOP CONVERTING when you start to earn dollars or you won't eat or drink ever again!

zorba

[sa2uk2oz]

Hi

I just wanted to add that we have lived in UK, SA and now Aus. Somethings are more expensive in one country and cheaper in another, but what we usually find is it is all relative to your earnings in the country you are living in, and usually affordable.

The safety issue is priceless!

[CandiceM]

Hi

I am one of the shoppers that load my trolley up, when shopping, sure if you convert dollar to rands the $4 for two Dorito packs does not seem like much of a special, but in dollars I can afford to feed my family of 3 with $1000/month quite comfortably. I buy no name brands, look out for specials, buy priced to sell item, shop at markets etc. The biggest thing that has changed for me in Oz is my buying habits. In SA I was far less price conscious and put my tastic rice and clover milk in the trolley barely glancing at the price. Here I check comparitive products and decide mostly on price. Meat, I look for price per Kg and instead of buying chicken breasts at $12.98/kg, rather get the whole chicken at $4.79/kg and even with the bones come out on top meat for dollar.

You have to be willing to change, your whole outlook on shopping and life in general. In SA we went to Spur at least once a week, if not more. In Oz we can't afford to go out that often for an evening meal. Plus in all honestly trying to find a restuarant that is good value for money and can keep a 4 year old entertained is like trying to find hens teeth. So we prefer to go out for coffee and scones, and so it costs $20 every two weeks, we have had a good time, walked on the beach, sat in the marina watched the boats come in a fought off the seagulls as they have divebombed our scones, all in all an entertaining couple of hours and well worth the $20.

Apart from the grocery shopping, in general I am always on the look out for specials. For the most part i have found that toys are priced much the same here as they are in SA. Yesterday while shopping at toys-Rus I found on Clearance a Brat doll for $14, a Imaginarium (brand name) tower blocks (huge blocks) $6, a fisher price musical farmyard toy marked down from $40 to $20.

All I am saying is that is general things are more expensive in Oz and we are one of the lucky ones as we earn 2.5 times what we did in SA. I have found that our quality of life is so much better then in SA, not only in terms of material goods, but in terms of going to Kings Park, for the day and having a picnic, it costs you nothing and you can be sure the kids will have a good time,and you will not be mugged. PLus as said by another poster, you also need to consider that the cost of insurance is less, you probally won't have armed response or even an alarm system at all, most saffers on PR don't pay extra for medical aid and if they do its a fraction of what you would pay in SA ($115 for a family of 4), the interest rates are lower.

And lets not forget, the fact that whilst your material quality of life in SA, might be better at the moment then it would be in Oz, can you say that it will be in the future. With AA and the general political climate in SA, are jobs and advancement guaranteed? I feel in Oz you have a better chance of succeeding, of getting to where you were in SA when you left and surpassing it in a much quicker period of time.

Candice

[Jordy]

What I find rather wierd is the price of bread rolls. They so seem so out of proportion to the rest of products. They cost A$0.60 each. I have seem them on a special (maybe yesterday's bake) for 50 cents each. Now considering a 2 litre milk costs anything betweeb $1.99-$2.69 that means that 6 rollscost $3.60. Almost the double that of a 2 lt milk. Six 100% beef sausages were $3.75 and the rolls the same price.

Whats the reason behind this?

Edited June 29, 2008 by Jordy

[lyall]

jordy, you make my mind spin...that is so confusing for me....(really a dumb blonde)

Jokes apart, I know we will be better off once there, have done similar sums - income to cost of living ratio, def be better off.

Salary husband is going to earn in relation to the cost of rentals/buying property in the place we are going to is so much better that what we are in sa...we are hoping to start saving at least $100 per fortnight immediately,

i havent had a holiday for years...becase we live right on the oceans doorstep (2km away) dont really feel the need for it, and am so used to amusing myself that I dont need entertainment..

I have decided to study more once there as have been looking at the prices of colleges and some of the courses i'm interested in are really cheap in realtion to what you would pay here...will have to be correspondence though cause moving to a small town of about 5000 people...

And of course there is no price on peace of mind....

Lyall

[Perth Oost Family]

Hi there

Don't be under any illusions - the cost of living in Australia is high!!

Factor in paying for private schools - especially if your children are High School age. We tried our daughter at a government school which did not work. She was not used to the scholars treating the teachers with total disrespect etc and we moved her to a private school after a couple of weeks.

Remember many people use the public transport system to get to work so one small car might be enough for you at first. Check your needs out carefully.

If your children are university age - you have to pay double the annual fees an Australian would pay. PR status gets you 25% knocked off.

They always complain that there is a shortage of Doctors here and I must admit after sitting at Joondalup Emergency for over 4 hours one day - I tend to agree but I think I know why. Where you would only see one Doctor in SA - here you end up being referred all over the place.

Example - problem with wisdom teeth - from GP to specialist dentist - to another higher qualified specialist as teeth impacted. We also had to pay for a visit to the anaesthetist at his rooms - miles away. It was 9 months before we got the teeth extracted and four people were tied up with appointments before my daughter was even booked in the hospital. HBF class this as an existing condition so I guess payment is our problem!! The joys.

One item I would rather buy here is lounge suites and some other furniture items - especially at sale times.

You pay premium prices here for many items. I have a thing about light bulbs. They push energy efficient light bulbs as what we should be using but the prices - anything from $5 to $14 and beyond.

As with most countries now everything is made in China - you just pay more here than anywhere else. Wait for the sales - items become more realistic.

But when all is said and done - we bitch like crazy sometimes but we intend to stay- because quite simply - although not perfect - we definitely feel safer and there are many things we enjoy about Perth!!!!!!!!!!

[CandiceM]

Factor in paying for private schools - especially if your children are High School age. We tried our daughter at a government school which did not work. She was not used to the scholars treating the teachers with total disrespect etc and we moved her to a private school after a couple of weeks.

Although I agree that private schools are pricey I think it depends which one you go to. At Quinns rock Baptist, the primary school i think is in the regions of $4500 a year. Divided over 12 months the fees come in at $375 a month. Converted into rands you are looking at just less then R3000. And St Stephens School their school fees range from $3288 (about in rands per month R2140) at pre-primary level to $4996 (in rands per month R3250) at Grade 12. St Johns College in Jhb, admittedly one of the more elite schools is R 5395.00. Bishop Gavin in Bedfordview is R4225 a month, Rodean School for Girls is R4920. St Benedicts in Bedfordview R4933.

On the whole I don't think we are much worse off sending our children to private school here in Australia, then we would have been in South Africa. Also schools differ from area to area, and we are very happy were my son is now (public school ) although we are looking for a private high school as the feeder school for our area is not very good. And I would have said the same in SA about the schools for the area in which I lived. Here we only pay $30 for him a year, (so will definately be saving those pennies for high school). And as a plus to going to school in Oz, we don't have to be as concerned if our school has an HIV policy (sfound on a SA private school site)

Candice

Edited July 5, 2008 by CandiceM

[Geduldige van der merwes!]

Even more confusedddd

[Jon Green]

So what if you cant afford to go overseas twice a year so you will go every 2-3 years, but you know what, you are going to be alive to do it.

Cheers

Enrica

Cheers to Enrica

We are in the early process of getting our VISA and it couldn't happen soon enough. I can tell you from someone who has had a gun put to his head while being forced to the ground by 2 men in the dark, for spare change and a cell phone. I couldn't care a dam about overseas holidays, paid off houses and cars.

I would eat bread, live in a rental and use public transport in OZ if i have too, over a "richer" life here in SA. SA like the rest of Africa is like the wild west. You apparently "earn more and pay less", but at what expence - corruption, murder, RAPE.

I say NO more. Give me higher prices but a safer place for me to grow old with my partner anyday.

PEACE AND SAFTEY TO YOU ALL