A&A Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Seeker, Het vir jou 'n PM gestuur ivm Intrument Tech laat weet as jy dit nie gekry het nie.Sterkte Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no longer interested Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 (edited) Hi there...Clearly we're new here(on this site,NOT OZ),and by saying new i mean me and my friend.We both have families of our own and share the same ambitions in life. We both want to relocate to OZ so i feel i need to know a few things now...Go to Australia?Dont go to Australia?Ninja Turtle? I see your point of view more clearly than all the other positive things mentioned bout OZ...too many people paint this beautiful picture bout OZ,but fail to mention the negative too...i strive to keep my look out on life positive too,but when it comes to my family,then a person should look at all the pro's and con's before making a huge move in life...There is just one thing you should ask yourself when you are in SA and that is:"When is my or my familie's next encounter with a criminal?"All here has been affected by crime somewhere,and if not,then consider yourself lucky...If I have to look at the future of my kids,then I'm affraid I would take that "Moerse" knock that you are talking about(movin to OZ)We find it difficult to get a vacancy for Instrument Technicians in OZ,even though there is a shortage of this trade there. Need sum help websites,tel #'s,people's names ANYTHING!! But we'll keep SEEKING...Oh and hang in there Ninja Turtle,your move wasn't so bad after all!Hi Seeker I find your post interesting and without wanting this to be taken the wrong way I wondered please if you would mind elobrating on your point of view (in bold, italics and underlined) Edited January 2, 2008 by NorCalAussie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scatterling Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Thanks for pointing out the negatives as I have struggled to find them as everyone in these circles is hell-bent on convincing themselves they have done the right thing.Well-done!Well I bet you will never raise anything negative about Aus on this forum again.If you are still having second thoughts why don’t you come back to SA, I have a lovely house going really cheap that you can buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no longer interested Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Thanks for pointing out the negatives as I have struggled to find them as everyone in these circles is hell-bent on convincing themselves they have done the right thing.Well-done!Well I bet you will never raise anything negative about Aus on this forum again.If you are still having second thoughts why don’t you come back to SA, I have a lovely house going really cheap that you can buy.Hey Mate I suppose it comes down to how you see it and that is your viewpoint I think that what has been mentioned before is by all means have your say but be prepared to back it up where necessary with facts if that is what is requiredHave a great one , when do arrive in Aus and where are you planning to call home in Aus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dax Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 (edited) Well I bet you will never raise anything negative about Aus on this forum again.Scatterling & Ninja Turtle,We debated this (negative aspects of Oz) issue extensively in this thread. It is not as if we shy away from australia's less positive aspects, if anyone have any questions, just ask... Check the link to a thread of about 8 months ago.Negative things about OzCheers,Dax Edited January 3, 2008 by Dax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 I think the opening statement is totally incorrect as the only lie in all of this was the lie told by NT to NT about Australia. Nothing have changed prior to NT's arrival, nothing have changed since his arrival, it is still the same. Australia and Australian life is definitely not a lie!!! The only lie was NT's perception which was totally of the ball park to begin with. NT's further statement "If things were to improve significantly in SA I would be back in flash" in my humble opinion holds the key. It is clear NT don't want to be here because his hart is still in South Africa. For as long as you have this attitude I am afraid you will not enjoy, appreciate or adapt in Australia. Perhaps you should consider going back, at least you can still have a peaceful night's sleep which you were so use to. NT obviously hasn’t done his your homework properly because if he did he would have known about all these issue. Nothing he mentioned is a state secret, but with a bit of research not rocket science to figure it out. When we arrived 3 years ago this site did not exist but we found nothing in Australia that we did not know about prior to our arrival. Our PR application process from the time we decided to do it till it was approved was approximately 2 years. Both my wife and I spend every day of those 2 years on the internet doing researched, speaking to people who was already here and also who was in process. We investigated every government web site and others in relation to immigration, bought books on immigration and even bought a software program to ensure our CV’s to be in the correct format for the Australian job market. And by the way Australian experience was never an issue to find a job. I would also strongly advice people to do a LSD trip. Our mind was set on Adelaide or Melbourne from our researched but after our trip we new Perth was the place to be. If it wasn’t for our trip we would have ended up somewhere which might not have been the right place for us. Do your homework 100000% and then do it again. You can never do too much of it, don’t come her with unrealistic expectations of which NT is a very good example. Be prepared to drop your quality of living for the beginning, it will change again but be prepared to it. It is really interesting to read about the total love affair South Africans have with there belongings and status in the society. How important it is to drive around in expensive German cars and to have the right address in an up market estate. Those people normally find it very difficult to adjust here as Australia is built on giving everybody a “fair go” and not on your status in society. Get your mind set right, I will again say this: Australia is not South Africa, things work differently. Whether you think it is silly or stupid is not the point as it is not going to change. The only person who is going to make this work is you, the Aussies did not ask you to be here, you came out of your own free will. The old saying of when you are in Rome you do as the Romans do was never so true for people immigrating. Make Ozzie friends as soon as you can it will help the transition from South African life style to Aussie life style. My experience is they are way more relax about things than South Africans. The South African survival mode and the quality of our security system might have something to do with this? To adjust and to make this a success is not easy but is also definitely not the lie NT is making it out to be!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ninja Turtle Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 Dont have a problem with him giving his view.. just have a major problem with him slagging the hand that feeds i.e aus like Mauritz said - all I can say is - I smell a hell of a rat mate.Actually the hand that feeds me right now is my own savings account. And that would be savings earned in SA. The money I have made in Australia is not significant enough to be fed from it. Before you say 'CentreLink', I will put all the contributions from CentreLink towards my cost of emmigrating, which is in the region of ZAR 250K, so its going to take a while at $450 per fortnight before I break even. Once again, just the facts to correct a point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TYTAN Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 NTIf Oz is SOOO bad, pack your bags and head back to South Africa. Obvioulsly you seem to think its better. Furthermore rather post your comments on a website called the Homecoming Revolution. No one on this site minds hearing about the negatives in Oz, but you are displaying an attitude of negativity that is unfounded and for the most part undesired.You obviously have the money to go back and set up defenses on your fort is SA. Do it, or stop whinging... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 Dear NT,Just relax!I appreciate the post and the negatives that you raised, it is good to have a realistic expectation before immigrating. But please don't be so defensive. And I also agree that some of the forumites shouldn't have been so offensive. But leave that aside.I really wish you all the best in Australia and hope that you'll be able to make it work. But I think that it would require an attitude adjustment.All the best,Linda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nilo Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 Ek begin ook nou regtig dink ons sal moet help en NT se "mind change"! So kom nou forum kom ons praat die man moed in en een van die dae sponsor hy ons almal sommer met 'n lekker forum get together by 'n smart hotel omdat hy so VREESLIK baie geld gemaak het in Australie net want ons het hom opgebeur!! So wat dink julle kom ons maak die negatiewe 'n positiewe!! GOED WEN ALTYD!!!! VREDE is die BESTE!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ninja Turtle Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 Hi NinjaTurtleWhen I read your initial post, I thought you were whinging a bit but gave you the benefit of the doubt as going through a "down" or negative phase is part of the settling in process. However after your arguments have been blown to hell by fellow forumites quite easily using simple Google searches for information, I'm starting to think that you really are whinging. Someone mentioned earlier that you were spoilt & I tend to agree.Quite frankly, I am VERY surprised that you haven't packed up and left for some other country yet - one that you can spend another 10 months in & totally trash the place to anyone who will listen. I suspect that wherever you go, you will be unhappy and find negative aspects to blow out of proportion and winge about.I hope that you haven't poisoned too many minds with your misinformation and that your wife & child manage to stay positive about their new country in the face of your negativity. From your posts and the success of your software business I imagine that you are a hugely driven and goal oriented person. Imagine how successful this move to Australia could be for you & your family if you focused all your energy on the positive aspects of your new home? As has been mentioned over & over on this website, a successful move to Australia (or any country for that matter) is mostly about ATTITUDE. Many people would give their eye teeth to be in your position right now - actually in Australia already - staying in a pretty swanky part of the country at that - with enough money to live on while opening a business. Perhaps it's a good time to take stock & count those proverbial blessings......NJ, I wish you all the best and hope that you can start to see the positive. You truly have it SO good and you're completely blind to this fact.Thanks for your comments, most of which are approptiate, except the one about arguments being blown to hell. I disagree that anything I have said has been 'blown to hell' by anybody. However I think you have summed up the situation very well when you talk about how successful the move could be, but in reality we have spent the last year trying to do business in a place that favours Australians. It's as simple as that. My perspective at this point would have been very different had the market place embraced our products like our South African customers do. However there is a very different reality that we have encountered, and that is 'If its not Australian made or Australian owned you will struggle to sell it'. Australians are very proud and patriotic, and they consisder the only place on the planet that is better than Australia to be the USA. So if you product comes from the USA you will do fine, but unfortunately they do consider South Africa to be the 3rd World, and that is the label that products from South Africa are tagged with.However, I have a steely determination, and resolve that will enable me to prosper in this nation, but I need to go and study the rule book all over again, as the things you take for granted in SA, do not nessecarily apply here in the business world. I know it will take time, and I agree that we are fortunate to have the financial resources to do what need to do, but I have also seen a few people loose a lot of money by coming here, hence my initial post. Right now I am just a little disillusioned, that is all. When a few deals have been done things will look different for sure.You mention ATTITUDE, and believe me I came here with the right attitude, and it has slowly been ebbing away...BTW. Its easy for the wife to be positive, she does not get knocked back daily when trying to do business. And if you think clients pay slowly in SA, OZ is no faster...Anyway thanks for you comments, I appreciate that you are able to add constructive criticism, which shows a certain maturity.RegardsNT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dax Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 (edited) However there is a very different reality that we have encountered, and that is 'If its not Australian made or Australian owned you will struggle to sell it'. Australians are very proud and patriotic, and they consisder the only place on the planet that is better than Australia to be the USA. So if you product comes from the USA you will do fine,I'll stick my neck out to agree with you in full in respect of this. Aussies do seem to have a long standing infatuation with the USA. Examples: Some older folks actually attend formal line-dancing gigs, a typical Yankee cultural thingie. Also, Way in the past they invested in the US F16 fighter bomber and never bothered to check out other options, e.g. the cheaper and probably better performer (proto type by proto type) French Mirage.Just a few examples to enlighten, I'm really not slagging my adopted country, but I'm not blind to some of its down-sides.But then, Oz's positives outstrips its negatives by light years.Dax Edited January 3, 2008 by Dax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiezelM Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 At the end of the day:you have to pick your poison Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SASydneysider Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 However, I have a steely determination, and resolve that will enable me to prosper in this nation, but I need to go and study the rule book all over again, as the things you take for granted in SA, do not nessecarily apply here in the business world. I know it will take time, and I agree that we are fortunate to have the financial resources to do what need to do,NT Hi NT,You have given yourself the answer on how to move forward and achieve. You are not going to give up and don't ever lose that steely determination!! Take the next step and make it work!!!I wish you well and when things work out, come and tell us.SAS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ninja Turtle Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 Scatterling & Ninja Turtle,We debated this (negative aspects of Oz) issue extensively in this thread. It is not as if we shy away from australia's less positive aspects, if anyone have any questions, just ask... Check the link to a thread of about 8 months ago.Negative things about OzCheers,DaxI had a look at the Negative things about Oz thread, and the info is certainly not duplicated here. Who cares about fuel injected cars and trollys with 4-wheel steering. Lets talk about real problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mara Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 NJ, I am just wondering whether the problem is being in Queensland. Now before everybody starts shouting, from personal knowledge I know that Queenslanders can be very anti anything or anybody that is not from Queensland!I have definitely found that the people in Melbourne are far more welcoming to immigrants than what we found the folks in Brisbane to be.I sincerely hope that it all comes right for you soon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ninja Turtle Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 Hi NT,You have given yourself the answer on how to move forward and achieve. You are not going to give up and don't ever lose that steely determination!! Take the next step and make it work!!!I wish you well and when things work out, come and tell us.SASHowzit,Thanks for your comment, however this topic was never intended to find answers for anything in my life, I was actually wanting to publish information relevant to people who were considering to come to OZ, and also stressing the point that they do their homework. People need to get both sides of the story, and I am sick and tired of nobody being honest enough to say anything about the downside of living in Australia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pippa Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 Hi Mara,NJ, I am just wondering whether the problem is being in Queensland. Now before everybody starts shouting, from personal knowledge I know that Queenslanders can be very anti anything or anybody that is not from Queensland!Interesting that you are mentioning this... I've heard this from so many other people including Australians ! It might be a Queensland thing... Hope you are well and all the best for 2008! Lovies, Pippa! X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 (edited) Strewth!The bottom line to all this is that it's totally unproductive to sling off at the bad things in life.We know they're there.Get on with life anyhow!No booklet you've read has said that Australia was perfect.Aussies don't have halos and can't walk on water, despite what the media says.There are still young hoons who get killed in their cars on Saturday night doing 200 km/ hr, blind drunk.There are waiting queues in public hospitals across Australia.It's still not absolutely safe to surf on Australia's beaches. There are sharks and rips that carry people out to sea where they drown despite lifesavers patrolling the beaches.Occasionally your wallet does get knicked out of your bag and you have to cancel all your credit cards. Sometimes you get your wallet back, intact, where you dropped it an hour ago.I could go on and on and on about this and that in Australia's lifestyle.The essential fact is that there is no law in my knowledge that states that a South African is obliged to stay against their will.With a million people a year applying to emigrate to Australia, this place can cherry pick the migrants it wants to settle here.If one South African doesn't go too much on the joint, there's no law to stop him or her strolling into an airline office, booking a ticket back and jumping on the plane.Hopefully, it will make him or her happier . . . . . and probably all the others happier, too.If I don't like working for a company, I don't carry on complaining.I stroll up to the boss, say "Thanks for letting me work for you, mate!", put on my hat and stroll out and get another job.The workers at the company really don't want to hear me carry on about the company day after day.It is sooooo unproductive in the long run.The "gentlemanly" thing to do is to resign.South Africans wanting to check out the Australian lifestyle are welcome to come and do so.Take your time and give it a thorough check over.If it doesn't match up, do something about it by shifting to another part of Australia or even New Zealand, etc.There are historical reasons why Australia is the way it is and why its people think and behave the way they do. It may not always be apparent to South Africans why, just take my word for it.In the end, the solution is so simple to not liking Australia very much . . . . . for a gentleman, at least! Edited January 3, 2008 by Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mauritz Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 (edited) No booklet you've read has said that Australia was perfect.I've been waiting for Bob - what can I say???When I came over 12 years ago - I brought bright new ideas and products to this country. The law of the land was a 50% wholesale tax. In short, for all my trouble - I was PUNISHED. I had to 'construct' a 50 page document, just for the tax office, so that they can decide how to tax me. I confronted them with my arrogant Souf Efrican PERSONALITY - it was like p@ssing against the wind. I had to pay that 50% on my 'brilliant' products. I had heaps and heaps of other 'problems' - I tried to fight it for a while - theN saw the light.I liked this place and its people - a stupid little product and an even more pathetic tax system was not going to get me down. There is more to life - I have a brain (even if it's sometimes confused with my @rse). There are other things that work in this system - that is LIFE - I had to change and adapt. Looking now at Azania - thank God I had the brains (maybe enough hairs on my @rse) to make the right decision - that was to stay, to learn, to blend, to adapt and to change. Edited January 3, 2008 by Mauritz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dedrei Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 Now before everybody starts shouting, from personal knowledge I know that Queenslanders can be very anti anything or anybody that is not from Queensland!This is so true.I also think NJ needs to relax and some other members. Going through all the negative experiences is what is making him negative about Australia. This will improve with time, you just have to give it time and don't be too judgmental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmo Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 I had a look at the Negative things about Oz thread, and the info is certainly not duplicated here. Who cares about fuel injected cars and trollys with 4-wheel steering. Lets talk about real problems.NJ, where on earth did you come from? Didn't your mother teach you a thing or two about manners? How rude! Dax was trying to help and see things from your point of view. Your attitude is completely off to those who are actually attempting to sympathize with your whinging!We all appreciate that you are publishing the down-side of Aus, however it is not very constructive, even though in the face of all the backlash, you are now trying to justify it that way. None of us here are idiots - you made a really useless whining post and now you are trying to pass it off as being a warning and "helpful" to others... puleeez! If you would like it to be helpful to others (instead of it just being a whinge), you should be a bit more specific about what company you are trying to launch. Which products you are trying to sell. What exactly is going wrong, what solutions you have tried etc etc. Had you done this you would have received a lot more sympathy and probably a lot of advice and help from the Aussies who chat here!Don't forget, this forum is an amazing resource, because a lot of people have been there, done that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bronwyn Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 I am surprised how hard everyone has been on NT. I thought this forum was about sharing experiences. We have also experienced a lot of what NT is going through, the only difference is that he wrote about it on the forum. I agree with a lot of his points. I have been watching the thread but just haven't had the time or energy to respond the way I would like to.I think it's really surprising that people are so critical of his viewpoint. This seems to be a symptom of feeling threatened. It is incredibly hard to start a business in Australia. I am willing to bet that almost 100% of the critics on this thread are in salaried jobs, and haven't a clue of how hugely expensive and difficult it is to get going here in business. Our business visa was granted on this basis: "You can come here with a minimum of a few hundred thousand Rand, but you do not qualify for benefits or Medicare. You will pay full price for childcare, and you will pay almost $400 per month for Private medical aid. You are liable for maximum taxes on any funds earned (even in SA), you may live here for only 4 years. If you do not somehow support your family (let's say you will need R400k per year after tax), or you do not start a profitable business and employ Australians, you will be asked to leave at the end of 4 years. If you want to buy property you must first get our permission, and you may not rent it out. You must advise us of your whereabouts at all times. When we ask you to leave you will be required to sell your house."Sometimes this is a bitter pill to swallow. No-one is asking for favours, but this is a very one-sided contract. I have a big problem with the rose-coloured glasses attitde, it's not fair or realistic. People should tell it like it is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmo Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 Bronwyn, it has been made very clear here by all, that we WANT to hear the good with the bad. The problem here is not WHAT is being said, it is HOW it is being said! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navigator Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 (edited) Yes there are negatives, and they definitely are mentioned on this forum, I think it's just a matter of the positives outweighing the negatives, and like numerous people have mentioned, your attitude regarding these matters. I thank you for the information you published, now I know exactly what kind of mindset to avoid once arriving in Australia. Edited January 4, 2008 by RenierPret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.