SA Family on Gold Coast

[Dax]

You summed it up well - the 'problems' here are just a storm in a teacup, compared to those of Azania.

Guess they don't handle that many gunshot, knife & spear wounds. You just don't get those rape victims streaming in. Hospitals in Aus can be real boring places.

Have a look at the training for police officers in this country - they must be bright as they study university level subject on many levels. I guess you do remember those bright & intelligent policemen of Azania - who in the world can compete with them???

The Gold Coast is heavily populated - the murder rate low - I find it excellent Violent crime?????? Can you really compare it with crime in SA?? Open any Aussie newspaper today and compare it with the 10% reported crime in any South African newspaper. What about the real hardcore statistics????

Glad to hear that a peaceful night's sleep is still available in good oll Africa

Is that a new thing in Aus to keep the mossies away??? I've been here for 12 years - I don't know anyone with such a noisy apparatus.

You mention the 'bar fights' etc. I've been in more bar fights in Southern Africa that I can count (tells you something hey). Bars & pubs here in Aus are family orientated areas. Believe me - South Africans pick their little fists up much quicker that anyone else. I've never seen any aggression in a public place.

The kind of crime and injuries you're talking about is common anywhere in the world - I call it 'rich man's crime' - rich kids in their pumped cars. Drug related crimes - always in 'rich' areas. The home invasions you mentioned are mostly drug related. If you look at the studies & statistics - the majority of these are possible, because people don't lock their houses.

Where there are people there are problems. I see and experience less problems in this country - THAT'S IT.

I wanted to reply but then saw that Mauritz did it it much better than I could have done

All that I can add is that to compare Oz with RSA (and to look for similarities, or where RSA is one-up on Oz), is like comparing apples with oranges - it's almost impossible.

I'm sorry, but I think Oz is miles ahead of RSA with things like the services industry. When my son needed urgent, serious medical attention (casualty) some years ago, he got excellent attention in Flinders State Hospital.

So, when one really compares apples with apples, e.g. govt. medical services, i don't think RSA is in the same league as Oz.

Cheers,

Dax

[celeste]

Hi Ninja Turtle

I said it before and i'll say it again thank you for posting your honest opinion on things. The fact about the world becoming a more violent place is quite correct ('violence covered the face of the earth' in the day's of Noah and that is how the bible says it will be at the coming of the Son of man which is fast approaching, i might add) and I have also factored this into my decision making process. It is, I take from the newspapers (Aus Gold Coast papers) that I have read far, far less violent at this stage than good old SA but it will get worse as the violence and corruption permeates the world. How long will it take? We don't know but I reckon if we can enjoy a few years of living (be it a decade or a generation or two) in a country that does not have the crime levels of SA then I'd rather do that. Also, in SA there is always a sense of uncertainty regarding the future and of course I don't want my wee toddlers blamed in school for Apartheid and punished for it through discrimination all their lives. We could stay in SA and make it work but the adventure of moving to Aus and the equality and freedom of movement it offers is far too irresistible. I wouldn't want to sit in SA in 15 years time and wish we had left sooner.

[TBZ]

Just a comment on one of your points:

"What is more disturbing than the crime though, is the number of fatal motorcycle and motor vehicle accidents"

I am not sure where you get the statistics you use. But an interesting point to look at is the total road fatalities in Australia over the Christmas holidays thus far 18 yes 18 http://au.news.yahoo.com/071221/2/15cc3.html

Death toll on roads rises to 581 !!!! yes 581

http://www.thetimes.co.za/PrintEdition/Art....aspx?id=667509

Not even a comparable

[Guest Ninja Turtle]

Just a comment on one of your points:

"What is more disturbing than the crime though, is the number of fatal motorcycle and motor vehicle accidents"

I am not sure where you get the statistics you use. But an interesting point to look at is the total road fatalities in Australia over the Christmas holidays thus far 18 yes 18 http://au.news.yahoo.com/071221/2/15cc3.html

Death toll on roads rises to 581 !!!! yes 581

http://www.thetimes.co.za/PrintEdition/Art....aspx?id=667509

Not even a comparable

There have been 52 motorcycle deaths on the Gold Coast alone this year. Most were men with families, so there are many families that celebrated Christmas without dad this year beacuse of this. Unfortunately SA did not report on thier motorcycle deaths, so I cannot draw a comparison.

However I used to ride superbikes in SA, and I did not feel like I was going to die tomorrow, but I would not consider riding a bike here if the attrition rate is so high. Added to this is the fact that there are no race track facilities here, but in JHB, you could at least go to a track day to have a blast in a safe environment.

This might be part of the problem why people ride too fast on the raod on bikes over here, as there is no other place to ride the bike.

We have also done a lot of travelling and exploring here, and I have come across many accident scenes here that were horrific. We saw the remains of a crash recently with kids toys scattered all over the road for at least 100m. Makes you wonder how fast these people were driving?

That brings me to the way trucks drive over here. They tailgate you and pass you when you are doing the speed limit. They drive in a very intimidating fashion, so its hardly surprising that they crash so often. Every week the news carries stories of trucks crashing and spilling thier hazardous loads all over the place. There was the recent case in Melbourne of a truck driver that purposefully nudged a merc in a tunnel, and then proceeded to ram the merc for the length of the tunnel, all filmed live by channel 9 news. The merc driver was lucky to escape alive.

I dont feel any safer on the roads here than I did in SA.

[Nics]

However you can't be complacent, just a few doors away from us, there was an intruder in a house recently, who tried to steal a kid in the middle of the night, and we live in a gated estate with 24H security (I bet you did not know that such places exist in OZ?)

I really cannot comment as I don't relate to any of your experiences/views. We have had nothing but good experiences and are happy beyond belief - have never even for 1 second thought about returning to RSA - even have a hard time contemplating a visit/holiday back - so as you can see - we are on a completely different page to you.

BUT - as we are also on the gold coast - I was very concerned about the comment you made above about someone trying to steal a child in the middle of the night!! I never heard about this, was it in the paper / news? Which neighbourhood?

[Sam]

Every week the news carries stories of trucks crashing and spilling thier hazardous loads all over the place. There was the recent case in Melbourne of a truck driver that purposefully nudged a merc in a tunnel, and then proceeded to ram the merc for the length of the tunnel, all filmed live by channel 9 news. The merc driver was lucky to escape alive.

Purposefully you say? Mate you don't know what you are talking about! Australia is a large country and there are many incidents reported in the media. Also the media like to put sensation on things because stories are sometimes too placid and won't sell. You posts are full of comparisons between two very different countries. You'll never settle down successfully if you don't let go of your critical and over analytical eye. Relax man.

[Mara]

That brings me to the way trucks drive over here. They tailgate you and pass you when you are doing the speed limit. They drive in a very intimidating fashion, so its hardly surprising that they crash so often. Every week the news carries stories of trucks crashing and spilling thier hazardous loads all over the place. There was the recent case in Melbourne of a truck driver that purposefully nudged a merc in a tunnel, and then proceeded to ram the merc for the length of the tunnel, all filmed live by channel 9 news. The merc driver was lucky to escape alive.

I dont feel any safer on the roads here than I did in SA.

Sorry but I just had to comment on this.... we live in Melbourne and I am going to take a punt here that NJ has never even driven through the Burnley tunnel where the accident he is talking about, happened. It was stated afterwards that the car and the truck both decided to change lanes at the same time and that is apparently why they crashed. As for dragging the Mercedes for the length of the tunnel....you have to be joking, do you know that the tunnel is approximately 3,6 klms long? With the truck going at 80klms, the speed limit in the tunnel, how long do you think it would take him to stop? At least a few hundred metres.

Here is the video clip about the accident

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/melbourn...rash/1159843856

Due to this accident there has been talk that they were going to ban overtaking in the tunnel, whether that has happened yet, I don't know, as we do not use it. Also, if you consider the amount of traffic that the tunnel carries, both ways, I am absolutely amazed that they have only had two serious accidents since it opened around 2001....so how is that for traffic control!

Here is a report on the crash and fire that happened in the tunnel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burnley_Tunnel

I have no problem with NJ telling it like it is, but then please....make sure of your facts!

[Spider]

Edited December 28, 2007 by Chandi

[moegeploeg]

Drove all around Sydney on my recent LSD trip... There is NO comparison to South Africa (read Gauteng)..... EVER !!! People actually obey the traffic rules....

For the 1st time ever I felt relaxed after 40 minutes in the traffic.

[Gizmo]

Ninja - there have been over 1000 deaths on SA roads this festive season alone so far!!

Of course, it doesn't let you know how many were bus, taxi, car or motorcycle, but, nevertheless, it is one heck of a scary number. And the festive season, plus new year is not over yet!

[moegeploeg]

Race Tracks - Thanks Google

http://www.fvee.org.au/tracks/

http://www.nmd.com.au/racetracks.cfm

Lots of places to go fast. The important thing to me is that while 1 government actually cares/worries about the death toll, the other can care less. So lane change will be prohibited after a serious accident in a tunnel... while back in the good old RSA you will have to bribe somebody to do something about it.

[Guest mrs mupersan]

Hi NinjaTurtle

When I read your initial post, I thought you were whinging a bit but gave you the benefit of the doubt as going through a "down" or negative phase is part of the settling in process.

However after your arguments have been blown to hell by fellow forumites quite easily using simple Google searches for information, I'm starting to think that you really are whinging. Someone mentioned earlier that you were spoilt & I tend to agree.

Quite frankly, I am VERY surprised that you haven't packed up and left for some other country yet - one that you can spend another 10 months in & totally trash the place to anyone who will listen. I suspect that wherever you go, you will be unhappy and find negative aspects to blow out of proportion and winge about.

I hope that you haven't poisoned too many minds with your misinformation and that your wife & child manage to stay positive about their new country in the face of your negativity.

From your posts and the success of your software business I imagine that you are a hugely driven and goal oriented person. Imagine how successful this move to Australia could be for you & your family if you focused all your energy on the positive aspects of your new home? As has been mentioned over & over on this website, a successful move to Australia (or any country for that matter) is mostly about ATTITUDE.

Many people would give their eye teeth to be in your position right now - actually in Australia already - staying in a pretty swanky part of the country at that - with enough money to live on while opening a business. Perhaps it's a good time to take stock & count those proverbial blessings......

NJ, I wish you all the best and hope that you can start to see the positive. You truly have it SO good and you're completely blind to this fact.

[Spider]

you couldn't have put it any better mrs mupersan!

[adeleb]

And AMEN from me!!!!

If all is not what you wanted/expected couldn't you just come back to SA? Or try another country? Buy an Island.........

[milo]

And another amen from me too!

NJ, I believe that you had preconceived ideas of what Australia should have been, and obviously have not experienced it all yet.

As mrs M said NJ, stop corrupting your mind and others with your negativity. My Engelsman read your post and actually asked if it is still worth emigrating if that's what's going on there. You cost me a serious peptalk you know!

Check out the emotional phases you will be going through on Riekie's thread and pin it somewhere. Keep track of where you guys are in all of this. You have to keep a positive attitude, otherwise you will eventually waste money in 'skipping countries' till you find your 'heaven on earth'.

Another thing. You are head of your family, imagine the insecurity you are creating in your wife and kiddies if you voice your doubts all the time. They need you to lead them wisely and with insight at the moment. A man that has built his own successful business is definately much more stronger in spirit, mind and body that what you are portraying at the moment. YOU ALONE are responsible for this.

Do some soul-searching and get yourself back on track guy! Many have done this before us and made it and so will many follow after us.

Stay strong!

[matman]

Hi NJ

Just wondering if there are any positives you would like to share about Australia. You seem to expend alot of time and energy concentrating on the negatives - how about telling us some of the positives you have experienced.

What about doing a side by side list of positives and negatives for us !

Rgds

Matman

[Andre S]

Hi Everybody,

Welcome to Australia 'The land of the lie'

Our Family arrived on 1 March 2007, and we are living in Hope Island on the Gold Coast. In a nutshell we have experienced what most SA families have... a daily rollercoaster ride.

We have been ripped off by fellow South Africans, and Australians alike. Watch out for the SA business networks, looking for your money... There is a reason why these people are so friendly. Please take note, that in OZ you get nothing for nothing.

Even replacing a watch battery will set you back $15 ... R90. In SA that would be "R15 for the battery sir, can I fit it for you, there is no charge tho fit the battery"

So you might say that SA has slave labour, and therefore things are cheaper (BTW: oz also has it's low lives, but unfortunately they are not colour coded for easy identification, and they earn the same money as you!), but I will say that in OZ there is a very significant element missing, and that is human kindness.

In SA Human kindness and courtesy still come before profit a lot of the time (Pick n Pay checkout staff definitely excluded). Who ever imagined being charged for tomato sauce with your meal? How petty and ridiculous? Do they really need that extra 30c? Does it affect the bottom line so much that it keeps them in business? Work it into the cost for goodness sakes, and stop being ridiculous.

Last friday the results of the inquest into the price of petrol was released. The findings were that there was "no reason found why petrol prices rise on a wednesday afternoon and fall on a monday". "It is a phenomenon that is unique to Australia". This is the official finding.

We all know the reason, people get paid on wendesday, and for those people who live from week to week, they have to fill up at the higher price, and therefore it affects the poor people the most. Why does the government not do something about it, it's so unproductive that people have to queue on a particular day, and then the pumps are quiet for the rest of the week?

Anyway... I could go on for hours, but in a nutshell, if you are a South African living in OZ (I do not believe in saffers by the way), get ready to downscale in a big way from what you are acustomed to. Even after you have converted your Rands to Dollars and you now have 15% left in Dollars, you will still pay double the price of the item cost in SA.

Examples:

Bottled Water: SA = R5.00, OZ $2 (R12.00)

Coke Tin: SA = R5.00, OZ $2.50 (R15.00)

Ice Cream Cone: SA = R5.00, OZ $3.00 (R18.00)

Cuppuchino: SA R12.00, OZ $3.50 (R21.00)

40ft container ZA to OZ R60 000

40ft container OZ to ZA $20 000 (R120 000)

How is this possible? it's the same thing just going the other way!

The only thing that is cheaper here is a car. That is it, virtually everything else is double the price that it is in SA. Even salaries are cheaper here!

So if you want any information, or just to let off steam by sharing silmilar stories about your experiences, then get in touch. I am by no means a depressed cynic, I am just a very realistic person who is very analytical by nature (I am in IT, did you guess?).

I like to compare things all the time just to see if I am winning or losing with my little gamble I have taken, but ultimately I have no desire to go back to SA at this point, as it seems that JZ has the white population in a frenzy, and I have had enough of that paranoid lifestyle.

If things were to improve significantly in SA, I would be back in flash, but I think, as we all know, the SA we have left behind no longer exists, and going back there would be like going back to your first house. When you get there you will again experience all the reasons why you left, and the whole exercise will be in vain.

In life you have to move forward, and somtimes you have to take a few steps backwards, to get a run up to make a flying leap forwards. That is the way I see it right now.

CIAO BABY

Dear Ninja Turtle,

I have mixed feelings about your post. You immediately got my back up with your opening statement: "Welcome to Australia 'The land of the lie". This is a sweeping statement and completely unbalanced.

In between the arrogant remarks of your tirade there were actually some good tips (for me anyway), like packing your power tools. I was ready to take mine to Cash Converters and buy new ones over there (all manufactured in Europe or China, right?). Also, the revelation that the container costs double on the return journey was interesting. Consider too that a 'plane ticket to London, bought in SA, is half the price of one bought over there. That's a function of the free market and prices are set according to what the market will bear. Supply and demand, ergo over supply of IT experts = low salaries.

On the topic of salaries:

"So you might say that SA has slave labour, and therefore things are cheaper (BTW: oz also has it's low lives, but unfortunately they are not colour coded for easy identification, and they earn the same money as you!), but I will say that in OZ there is a very significant element missing, and that is human kindness. "

I find these remarks offensive on so many levels. You obviously rate anyone who doesn't earn your kind of salary as a low life. I also picked up a distinct whiff of racism mixed in with this crap too. Who the hell do you think you are anyway? With an attitude like that, I think you are just an overpaid computer jockey. (People who earn their keep tend to be more humble and there is nothing wrong with earning an honest living doing menial work.) I want to see an "IT expert" do ANY work for free, so don't bitch about paying a guy for his time and skill to replace your watch battery. I find the element "human kindness" missing in your statements.

Generally people list their suburb or city, but listing your SA location as "Featherbrooke Estate" is clearly intended to let everyone know what a big shot success you were in SA. I have met your type who build their McMansion on the estate but knock down every honest guy's pricing in your quest to have the high life. You are seriously in need of some introspection and an attitude adjustment, otherwise you will be back in SA sooner than you think just like the other Saffers who can't live without the cheap Blacks to do their domestic work for them.

I am not surprised that Australians find South Africans arrogant or aggressive judging by your post. It offends me that I will be judged by people like you. Better still, why not consider moving to a less socialist country like the USA or better still, a third world country like Mexico. Lots of poor people to exploit in Mexico.

Oh, btw, why not use your real name if you wanna make such brave statements about your host country?

GOOD RIDDANCE BABY!

[Andre S]

PS: Leonard, AKA Ninjaturtle,

I just re-read my post and appear to have slipped into my err, raw Afrikaner mode (boquet to Mauritz for that one). Diplomacy may have been missing from that post. For my lack of tact, I do apologise.

In my defence, I find your arrogant, self aggrandising and patronising tone towards people on this forum most annoying, prompting my knee-jerk reaction.

Fact is, reading between the lines, I can see that you are frustrated and lonely and I empathise with you as it may very well be me in a few months time. I'm sure it is something to do with depression or the mourning ritual. My 2c worth is that if you tried being a bit nicer to ordinary people (possibly those living outside the gated estate?) you will meet new friends and things will look brighter. Oagers don't make friends (with the possible exception of Schrek ). With a positive attitude, you will more easily spot the in-roads into the market you are looking for and getting the low down from the "champs" in the village might just give you a bettr understanding of how to be successful in your new context. Bill Gates or Warren Buffet have never struck me as arrogant, so rich people CAN be likeable.

Seriously, the attitude adjustment is necessary and you are intelligent enough to realise that the life in SA was built on exploitation, which mostly lead to the problems.

Godspeed Mate!

Andre S

[Antoinette]

NT, jy is net "pissed off" want jy kan nie so MAKLIK so BAIE geld maak soos wat jy in Suid-Afrika gemaak het nie. Nog nie gehoor van "tall poppies" nie? Hel ou maat, hoe doen jy jou huiswerk? Het jy rerig gedink Australie is die land van melk en heuning? Vat jou "savings" en gaan terug Veertjiestroompie toe. Lyk my jy het reeds uitgevind hoeveel dit kos om jou container terug te vat. So nie, bly stil. Jy is 'n ryk man wat 'n BIETJIE swaar kry. En daarom is Australie skielik 'n slegte plek? Kom by. Jy klink vir my lekker arrogant. Gin wonder jy sukkel om oor die weg te kom met Australianers nie. Hulle "like" dit nie.

[eileen]

OI! Leave America out of the bunfight!!

[Annette]

Hey guys, lighten up and give this guy a break!

Ninja turtle, I'll break my usual rule and address you personally in this case, because I feel it is necessary:

Mate, I can sense some real sadness and frustration in your posts. Sadness because of everything you have left behind - everything familiar, dear to you, everything that just makes "sense" without having to think about it twice, without having to wonder how it works. You seem frustrated that the fact that you now live in a relatively safe country has not brought with it enernal happiness and bliss. Suddenly, you realise that money or location or culture makes absolutely no difference to how happy your life is. Your wife still whinges at you to mow the lawn when all you want to do is watch the game, your dog still pukes all over your new carpet, there are people everywhere who drive like idiots, who molest children, who stab others in the back etc. etc. Whahey! Same s&%t, shinier bucket! Life does not suddenly and magically transform into some version of paradise just because you have moved countries, in fact, things often get a hell of a lot worse before they eventually get better.

You say that you had done your research, that you read through all the posts, but that nowhere did anyone warn you about all of these troubles that you are experiencing. I would say to you and everyone still out there - you may think that doing all of the research in the world is going to make the transition smooth, but too often we read only what we want to read, hear only what we want to hear and conveniently block out the bad stuff, because it is too hard to deal with. It's only human nature. It is often the most competent, organised and best prepared people who suffer the worst. Why? Because suddenly it hits us that there are things we cannot control, predict or "just know". And it hurts. It reminds us all to harshly that we are only as competent / expert / great at what we do in a certain context.

NT, you mention that you have read Queensland Girl's post, but it seems that you have skipped over the part where she mentioned that their business only took off once they realised that what worked in South Africa will not necessarily work here, that the people are different, the context different ... your post still mentions that your software was successful in South Africa, so why wouldn't it be successful here? To me that says that you haven't quite mentally made the move yet. You seem to be unable to accept that different can also be right. That your right isn't the only right in the world...

It seems clear to me that you seem to be firmly in the grip of the second stage culture shock (disillusionment / withdrawal). It will probably very difficult for you to see this, but I urge you to look closely at yourself and your actions and statements. Do they really make sense? You may well think so, but as you can see from many of the responses to your thread, they don't make sense to many others! That does not mean that you are the only person who is right and everyone else does not know what they are talking about or can't get rid of their rosy-tinteds! It means you need to take a good, close look at what is really going on. For you own sake, but especially for the sake of you nearest and dearest. Your family may be ready to move on, but can't do that out of a feeling of loyalty to you. They may even be aping / copying some of your negative attitudes and sayings because they feel they have to support you. Please, for their sake, you are just making it difficult for everyone else as well as yourself! If not for yourself, then at least make an effort to change your outlook for the sake of your family and their future. I'm sure if you look very hard and try to remember why exactly you moved over here, you will remember that it was because you realised that there really is no future for them n South Africa.

To those others who are so quick to judge and to shoot someone like this down: remember that this could and probably will be you in a few months' time or even in a few years' time! It's important that all aspects of migration are covered and given an airing on this site and I'm sure there are many out there feeling exactly the same way as Ninja Turtle who will never dare post their feelings because of the response it always receives. Yes, it is unfortunate that the original post was so negative and so emotive without much to balance it, but it's a symptom of other things. How are people who are really suffering supposed to find the help they so desperately need if everyone is just going to get personal and start insulting them?

I am sometimes asked why I seem to find it so easy and to sail through the emigration business without much trouble. Emigration is HARD! Some of us are lucky enough to instrinsically have been blessed with a positive outlook on things. That does not mean it's any less difficult for us, it just means that we're lucky enough to naturally have the means to cope with it better. Not everyone is like that.

There are many excellent webpages devoted to Culture Shock and how to cope with it, some better than others:

http://www.crk.umn.edu/internationalstuden...ultureShock.htm

http://edweb.sdsu.edu/people/CGuanipa/cultshok.htm

http://www.missiontravel.com.au/short-term...ion/culture.php

http://www.studygoldcoast.com.au/homestay_...ilies_page5.htm

I particularly like the following one although it can be hard to read, but I urge you to make the effort:

http://studentservices.engr.wisc.edu/inter...ltureshock.html

I would like to quote from the above webpage (Wisconsin University), written by Arthur Gordon:

First, be aware that such a thing as culture shock exists, that it will probably affect you one way or another, but that it doesn't last forever.

Next, try to remember, if and when you become thoroughly disenchanted with you surroundings, that the problem probably isn't so much in them as it is in you.

Third, accept the idea that while it may be somewhat painful, culture shock can be a very valuable experience, a mind-stretching process that will leave you with broader perspectives, deeper insight into yourself and wider tolerance for other people. A close student of the subject, Peter S. Adler, calls it "a very powerful and personal form of learning." The whole experience, he says, "is that rare set of situations which forces the individual into experimenting with new forms of attitude and behavior."

In addition to these main points, the experts offer a handful of common sense do's and don'ts to anyone who may find him or herself exposed to culture shock.

If it happens to you, don't think that you're strange or abnormal. If you had a happy life back home, why shouldn't you miss some aspects of it or feel a sense of loss? You'd be abnormal if you didn't.

If it happens to you, don't sit around being negative and critical; this just prolongs and deepens your gloom. Try to keep busy. Arrange something pleasant to look forward to. Set goals for yourself — learning ten new foreign phrases each day, for example — and stick to them. Observers in the USA have noticed that when foreign students bring their wives with them, the women are more susceptible to culture shock because they have fewer specific goals and less to do.

If it happens to you, try not to be judgmental. Everyone has an ethnocentric tendency to think that his own culture is superior to all others. Actually, any culture is a good culture if it provides an environment that meets basic human needs.

If it happens to you, force yourself to look for the best, not the worst, in your situation. People who go around looking for trouble usually manage to find it. Train yourself to enjoy the diversity of people and cultures, not fear it or shy away from it. Recently in Russia two members of an American tour group at different times during the day bought a candy bar from a booth in a railroad station. Each was given his change in the form of chocolate wafers. One American, disturbed by this departure from the familiar felt that he was being victimized and protested vehemently. The other, charmed by what seemed to him a quaint and delightful custom, regarded it as a novel and refreshing experience and even bragged about it to his fellow tourists. The first American, it seems reasonable to say, was far more a prisoner of his own culture than the second.

In sum, before he leaves home, the visitor to a foreign land should make up his mind neither to resist the culture in which he finds himself nor surrender to it. What he needs to do is fight or grope or inch his way toward a new and flexible personality, a personality that retains its own cultural identity by recognizes that right of members of other cultures to retain theirs.

If that new personality can help him toward a better understanding of himself and of others, if it can enable him to communicate easily and convey warmth and understanding and good will across the culture barricades, then the pain of culture shock will have served its purpose, and the recovered victim will truly have the best of two worlds.

and I leave you with this:

All good people agree,

And all good people say,

All nice people, like Us, are We

And every one else is They:

But if you cross over the sea,

Instead of over the way,

You may end by (think of it!) looking on We

As only a sort of They!

(Rudyard Kipling)

Good luck NT. All of the best in trying to adapt to your new environment. It's not easy, but I can be done! It's up to you how hard or how easy you are going to make it for yourself and those close to you. You and ONLY you are responsible for your own happiness.

Edited December 31, 2007 by Annette

[Guest Mauritz]

To those others who are so quick to judge and to shoot someone like this down: remember that this could and probably will be you in a few months' time or even in a few years' time!

I agree 200% with Annette. Although I didn't agree with NT's original post - it opened up some of the negative aspects of the 'Groot Trek'. This thread shouldn't discourage people who need to 'talk' about their negative experiences.

We must remember that NT and his family migrated for the same reasons as most of us. Everyone might just experience the process in a different way. Some are going to be happy and others not - some are going to be successful - others might loose everything. In my experience - a time comes when everything changes and the future just can't look any better.

Happy New Year to all.

[Mara]

I have absolutely no problem with NJ telling it like it is, what I objected to are his sweeping statements that are without substance..... like the crash in the tunnel in Melbourne.

If he was to state specifics, fine, but to state that the whole of Australia is like that, no way, the country is too big for such statements!

[Antoinette]

http://studentservices.engr.wisc.edu/inter...ltureshock.html

Gou-gou bg. gelees. Ervaar wit Suid-Afrikaners nie 'n mate van 'n "culture shock" in die nuwe Suid-Afrika nie? Ek weet ek sal nooit kan aanpas in die "nuwe Suid-Afrika" met sy hoe vlakke van wetteloosheid en onbevoegdheid nie. NT nadat ek bg. gelees het klink dit tog asof jy in die "disillusionment" fase is, waarin jy alle Australianers as skelm en onsensitief sien. Hoop jy kom gou deur dit.

[Seeker]

Hi there...

Clearly we're new here(on this site,NOT OZ),and by saying new i mean me and my friend.We both have families of our own and share the same ambitions in life. We both want to relocate to OZ so i feel i need to know a few things now...

Go to Australia?

Dont go to Australia?

Ninja Turtle? I see your point of view more clearly than all the other positive things mentioned bout OZ...too many people paint this beautiful picture bout OZ,but fail to mention the negative too...i strive to keep my look out on life positive too,but when it comes to my family,then a person should look at all the pro's and con's before making a huge move in life...

There is just one thing you should ask yourself when you are in SA and that is:

"When is my or my familie's next encounter with a criminal?"

All here has been affected by crime somewhere,and if not,then consider yourself lucky...

If I have to look at the future of my kids,then I'm affraid I would take that "Moerse" knock that you are talking about(movin to OZ)

We find it difficult to get a vacancy for Instrument Technicians in OZ,even though there is a shortage of this trade there. Need sum help websites,tel #'s,people's names ANYTHING!! But we'll keep SEEKING...

Oh and hang in there Ninja Turtle,your move wasn't so bad after all!