SA Family on Gold Coast

[Carlos Carvalho]

Mara, Dankie, Thank you, Obrigado, Merci...you get the picture!

This website was our main source of general living info back in the RSA when we decided to make "The Big Move". We've met some fabulous people along the way and not once have we thought...what the hell have we done?

By the time we landed in Aus we were well aware of how far our ZAR would take us in $ country and how far our fortnightly $'s would keep us afloat. We were advised to pack everything except the kitchen sink in our container, which we did.

We were prepared to take a number of steps back in order to settle down and build a new life for our family in Australia (and we led a good life in the RSA). We are currently living in country South Australia, on one salary only and doing exceptionally well, thank you very much...and last night we slept with an unlocked front door...again!

Yeah, you do get unsavoury looking characters, but what the hell, they exist in the RSA as well. Overall, we've found the locals to be friendly, helpful and down to earth honest. (Maybe it's a country thing!)

To Ninja Turtle; You are entitled to your opinion, just remember that not everybody has had a difficult transition from the RSA to Aus. We did extensive homework beforehand and made the "mental change" before arrival Down Under. For us, this is HOME now! Best of luck to you and your family.

[no longer interested]

Mara, Dankie, Thank you, Obrigado, Merci...you get the picture!

This website was our main source of general living info back in the RSA when we decided to make "The Big Move". We've met some fabulous people along the way and not once have we thought...what the hell have we done?

By the time we landed in Aus we were well aware of how far our ZAR would take us in $ country and how far our fortnightly $'s would keep us afloat. We were advised to pack everything except the kitchen sink in our container, which we did.

We were prepared to take a number of steps back in order to settle down and build a new life for our family in Australia (and we led a good life in the RSA). We are currently living in country South Australia, on one salary only and doing exceptionally well, thank you very much...and last night we slept with an unlocked front door...again!

Yeah, you do get unsavoury looking characters, but what the hell, they exist in the RSA as well. Overall, we've found the locals to be friendly, helpful and down to earth honest. (Maybe it's a country thing!)

To Ninja Turtle; You are entitled to your opinion, just remember that not everybody has had a difficult transition from the RSA to Aus. We did extensive homework beforehand and made the "mental change" before arrival Down Under. For us, this is HOME now! Best of luck to you and your family.

Carlos, Obrigado, hit the nail on the head I couldnt have said it better well done MATE we NCA's family share your sentiments and like you we also did our research we one BIG EXCEPTION no or very little internet and definitely no SAAUSTRALIA

And to Mara thank you!!!

[Piet & Madelene]

Great Info

But there is no price on safety. My experience for the last 2 weeks. My 17 year old daughter went to the shop 3 block away from my house and a car stopped and the guy was naked. I advertise something for sale in the Junk Mail - first the guy made a cheque dep but my banked confirmed that the account wasn't operating anymore it was closed. The second person made a internet transfer - again my bank confirm that the transfer wasn't done it's a scam. Thursday morning I mist out on 20min to a Hi-jack. We were just inside the house when we saw the two persons outside running around our yard. The police didn't

catch them. Few months ago they break into our house while we were sleeping

I am sick and tired to lock everything around me for my family's safety. Kids are supposed to play outside but this doesn’t happen in SA anymore.

I think most of the people that move to Australia are moving there because of safety and no other reason. We have close friends in Brisbane and the info that they are giving through is all good and not what we are use to.

Regards

Piet & Madelene

[Queensland Girl]

Hi Ninja Turtle

I have been watching this thread closely and feel that I would like to answer you.

We arrived on the Gold Coast 6 years ago :

We have experienced the same as yourself, but we did not have the same expectations that you have had.

I would like to refer you to my posting under Journals titled "What they don't tell you"

We were fleeced by ex-Saffers in a Business deal

We were fleeced by Australians in a Business deal.

Why? Because we were vulnerable, and did not trust our own business sense. We forgot that we had good heads on our shoulders and business is business.

NO ONE is out to do you a favour. Do not expect your ex- countrymen to suddenly change into a business support group.

We now have a thriving business, with NO AUSTRALIAN BUSINESS partner. You dont need one- trust in yourself,your product and your ability.

I have said it time and time again. Use ex Safffer groups when you need them, but do not expect to much. This is your journey. Go our there and make friends. You will find them in the most unlikely places. Chances are they won't be at the Hope Island Country Club.

WE did not earn ONE DOLLAR for 14 months. We were converting all that time. Our savings were totally eroded. Hyper-ventilation is the only way to describe it. But- the moment you start earning dollars you will find the costs more acceptable.

Good luck on this journey.

This is a very humbling experience, but when you succeed (give it a bit of time) you will look back at 2007 in a different light.

[elizes]

Dear Ninja Turtle

With what visa did you enter if I may ask? Are you starting your own business in Australia?

Sorry for the (personal) questions. Just trying to make a bit more sense out of your situation....

Kind regards

Henry

[Joey_Muchacho]

Who cares, money is money, in any case once you start earning in dollars (assuming that you make enough to live decently) the price becomes a lot more realistic, meaning $1 basically becomes like spending R1.

[Guest Mauritz]

40ft container ZA to OZ R60 000

40ft container OZ to ZA $20 000 (R120 000)

How is this possible? it's the same thing just going the other way!

I am by no means a depressed cynic, I am just a very realistic person who is very analytical by nature (I am in IT, did you guess?).

I like to compare things all the time just to see if I am winning or losing with my little gamble I have taken,

CIAO BABY

I thought I'll analyze your 'analytical' container comparison.

I have a 18 year old Aussie bloke working for me - unskilled. He completed year 12 (matric) last year and he already owns his own ute - because he started wordking when he was 15. He worked for a full year as a labourer for a local landscaper - he got paid $10/hour - a total rip off, but that's the legal recommended rate in the landscaping trade for his age. I refuse to pay him that - I pay him more. He still lives with mom & dad - hardworking Aussie family. If he was completely illiterate, the pay would stay the same.

In short, he earns roughly $20 000/year (in his previous job) - that is the cost of that container to SA. He can save up and ship his container to ZA for $20 000 - it'll take a while, but in the wonderful land of Oz, he can do it.

Now, the same labourer in good old SA, will probably be black - what about matric, maybe illiterate ??????. On his salary as an unskilled labourer/garden boy or whatever - can he afford a car .......... maybe a bicycle or a donkey?????? How long is it going to take him to ship his container of R60 000 to Aus???????

According to Cosato (February 2007) - the minimum wage for a domestic worker in SA was R5.68/hour. Your 'twin' gardener in SA needs about R28/hour to earn his R60 000 to move his container to the wonderful land of OZ. The entry-point salary scale for a graduate qualified teacher was R99 625 in September 2007. Is that comparing apples to apples???? I guess you only analyzed the DIRECTION of the container .

what is this CIAO BABY stuff - just curious

My analytical mind is actually totally stuffed today - I'm not in IT - I'm actually in TOE & PISSED 'cause I'm p@ssed - sucking heavily on XXXX (think that spells BEER in IT???)

Edited December 23, 2007 by Mauritz

[celeste]

Hi Ninja Turtle

I am grateful for your post - us people still planning the big move need to know the good and the bad and reading about your experiences has made me take stock once again of the enormity of what we are doing. It almost made me think twice but you know what...i'd still rather take my chances in oz than stick it out on this continent for all the reasons that are very eloquently presented in many threads elsewhere on the forum...and by others in this thread.

[Mara]

To Carlos Carvalho

Thank you, I am so glad things are going well for you guys and that you are enjoying your new life in South Australia!

To NorCalAussie

Thank you, we do try to tell it like it is. Mostly we answer questions, you ask the question, we supply the answers, if we can!

We had to make the move without internet (14 years ago) and what wouldn't I have given to have been able to get the information available today, at that time!

Regardless of anything else,

everytime I look through a window, with no burglar bars,

walk down the street, without looking over my shoulder,

drive in my car, without locking all the doors,

get into a lift on my own, without worrying about who else may get in,

alone in my office, the door open and not worrying about who may walk in,

I just want to say thank you, for my life in Australia!

[Guest Ninja Turtle]

Hi Ninja Turtle

I have been watching this thread closely and feel that I would like to answer you.

We arrived on the Gold Coast 6 years ago :

We have experienced the same as yourself, but we did not have the same expectations that you have had.

I would like to refer you to my posting under Journals titled "What they don't tell you"

We were fleeced by ex-Saffers in a Business deal

We were fleeced by Australians in a Business deal.

Why? Because we were vulnerable, and did not trust our own business sense. We forgot that we had good heads on our shoulders and business is business.

NO ONE is out to do you a favour. Do not expect your ex- countrymen to suddenly change into a business support group.

We now have a thriving business, with NO AUSTRALIAN BUSINESS partner. You dont need one- trust in yourself,your product and your ability.

I have said it time and time again. Use ex Safffer groups when you need them, but do not expect to much. This is your journey. Go our there and make friends. You will find them in the most unlikely places. Chances are they won't be at the Hope Island Country Club.

WE did not earn ONE DOLLAR for 14 months. We were converting all that time. Our savings were totally eroded. Hyper-ventilation is the only way to describe it. But- the moment you start earning dollars you will find the costs more acceptable.

Good luck on this journey.

This is a very humbling experience, but when you succeed (give it a bit of time) you will look back at 2007 in a different light.

Now this is some good advice. Thanks very much, just what I needed, as we are doing exactly as you advised. We have an excellent range of software products that have been quite successful in SA (and re still being sold in SA), and there is no reason why they would not be successful here. And I will keep on marketing them until we get a few reference sites, after which they will start to sell themselves. Fortunately our savings will not be eroded in 14 months, so we can keep going at this for as long as it takes.

I thought I'll analyze your 'analytical' container comparison.

I have a 18 year old Aussie bloke working for me - unskilled. He completed year 12 (matric) last year and he already owns his own ute - because he started wordking when he was 15. He worked for a full year as a labourer for a local landscaper - he got paid $10/hour - a total rip off, but that's the legal recommended rate in the landscaping trade for his age. I refuse to pay him that - I pay him more. He still lives with mom & dad - hardworking Aussie family. If he was completely illiterate, the pay would stay the same.

In short, he earns roughly $20 000/year (in his previous job) - that is the cost of that container to SA. He can save up and ship his container to ZA for $20 000 - it'll take a while, but in the wonderful land of Oz, he can do it.

Now, the same labourer in good old SA, will probably be black - what about matric, maybe illiterate ??????. On his salary as an unskilled labourer/garden boy or whatever - can he afford a car .......... maybe a bicycle or a donkey?????? How long is it going to take him to ship his container of R60 000 to Aus???????

According to Cosato (February 2007) - the minimum wage for a domestic worker in SA was R5.68/hour. Your 'twin' gardener in SA needs about R28/hour to earn his R60 000 to move his container to the wonderful land of OZ. The entry-point salary scale for a graduate qualified teacher was R99 625 in September 2007. Is that comparing apples to apples???? I guess you only analyzed the DIRECTION of the container .

what is this CIAO BABY stuff - just curious

My analytical mind is actually totally stuffed today - I'm not in IT - I'm actually in TOE & PISSED 'cause I'm p@ssed - sucking heavily on XXXX (think that spells BEER in IT???)

I am impressed, another rational person with good information, who has left the emotion out of the post. Thanks for the different viewpoint, which highlights the need to earn Dollars as quickly as possible. But did you now that Australia has overtaken the USA in as the nation with the highest rate of credit card debt in the world? This only means that the cost of living is too high, and credit is too easy to obtain, so things will be changing here soon. Either credit will become more difficult to get (the more likely scenario), or people will have to earn more.

CIAO BABY is pronounced CHOW BABY, and is a european way of greeting.

[Guest Ninja Turtle]

Hi Ninja Turtle

I am grateful for your post - us people still planning the big move need to know the good and the bad and reading about your experiences has made me take stock once again of the enormity of what we are doing. It almost made me think twice but you know what...i'd still rather take my chances in oz than stick it out on this continent for all the reasons that are very eloquently presented in many threads elsewhere on the forum...and by others in this thread.

Hi Celeste,

Good for you, that you have the guts to do it (emigrate). My post was not intended to advise anybody not to emigrate to OZ, it was intended to highlight some very important things that people (including myself) did not take int account. More important than anything else, is to be emotionally and psychologicaly prepared.

The closest I came to getting good information before I left, what when I was told that 'getting the visa was the easy part'. Unfortunately there was no elaboration about just what we would encounter, and as our visa had taken almost 3 years including the skills assessment phase, by a useless agent (we basically did everything ourselves, and they sent the documents with the courier!), who returned from JHB to live in OZ halfway throught the process, and left his usesless staff to procrastinate with all the commuincation with DIMIA.

So we thought that it was not possible for anything to be more stressful than living your life on hold for 3 years, wondering if you would or wouldn't get the visa. And all our friends from SA who left before us made out that the moving part was just plain sailing, which I must say is far from the truth. The biggest and most important thing that we dont have here is a reliable business network with reference sites for our products. This is something we established 10 years ago in SA, and we never thought it would be so difficult to do it again (because with hindsight, it seems like it was easy to do the first time round in SA, but in reality it was just as difficult in SA, only we have forgotten the pain).

I wish you well with your move and hope you have a well planned and executed transition.

[Guest Ninja Turtle]

Dear Ninja Turtle

With what visa did you enter if I may ask? Are you starting your own business in Australia?

Sorry for the (personal) questions. Just trying to make a bit more sense out of your situation....

Kind regards

Henry

Hi Henry,

We have a 136 which is permanent residence. We registered a business as soon as we landed here. We have a very successful IT consulting and software developement business in SA, and we own the IP in all the products, which are inventory control & POS systems running on SQL Server.

I approached the QLD state government when we arrived. They have various plans for business grants, mentoring sessions, marketing courses etc. in fact a wealth of information. We had been communicating via email before our arrival.

To make a long story short, the QLD state governement has given us heaps of support and advice, and we have done many presentations to delegates, prospects, potential investors and the like, but the basic underlying current that has come from all of this is that unless we re-brand our products under our Australian business name, and proclaim them as 'Made in Australia', we are going to struggle to sell them.

This is not my opinion, it is what I have been told time and again by many many people, and it is a total contradiction, as most of the clothing and toys in OZ come from China, the cars come from South Africa and Japan, so whats the deal with Software?

Only time will tell what the best solution is but there is no way we are giving up, we are not going anywhere now.

[Guest Mauritz]

Hi NT

According to the psychologists - moving house can be as stressful as a divorce - just imagine what moving countries can do to a person ...... a family?????

Here in the country I meet 'city people' on a weekly basis - all of them mention the 'shark' attitude on the Gold Coast. I also agree with you - South Africans don't like failure - so they prefer not to talk about it - to proud a nation. On the other hand - most of us don't like to ask for help - another characteristic based on pride.

Running & setting up a business in this land can be a nightmare - only because we're not used to 'tides' here. If you think/see you're loosing money rapidly - getting nowhere - just stop for a while. There are good people everywhere - there are good people on this forum with heaps of experience.

I always try to explain to people - to scale down and learn to read the system before we take those chances. A retired Aussie accountant, we met while traveling in Aus - told me to go and do something totally different for a year - then start my business. Of course, Mr Smartarse, did the opposite - I payed for that.

In South Africa we have to be confident, arrogant and strong. Those attitudes just do not work here - you have to 'hide' them

I don't know anything about your line of business - so I'm a dead duck - wish I could help. With anything else - feel free to contact me or anyone else.

I wish you and your family everything that's good for the silly season.

Take care.

Edited December 23, 2007 by Mauritz

[Pippa]

Dear Ninja Turtle,

I applaud you for having the courage to share your experiences with us ! It is imperative to share all experiences with the forum members .

It is sad to see that some members think that you are whining, as I think you only share your experiences, which I think is terrific!

We’ve only been here for 4 months (on a 457 visa) and also find certain things expensive, difficult and unfamiliar...but we continuously remind ourselves why we came. I never thought that it would be so difficult to leave my family, friends and dogs in SA , but we pray for strength and for God to guide us .




I do believe that some people leave more behind (in SA) than others and therefore some find it more difficult than others to adapt....

I focussed way too much on getting the visa that I never prepared myself for the emotional side of immigration! For all those in waiting; do as much research as you can and prepare yourself emotionally for the move - it is crucial.

May you all have a lovely Christmas and a fantastic 2008!

God bless!

Lovies, Pippa! X

[Mupersan]

Hey Pippa, is it me being blind, or have you been scarce for a bit, if so, welcome back..

[Charlie Brown]

Well , "Land of the lie" is a bit harsh if you ask me!!! but that is just my opinion ,i like that you are honest about a lot of things most people won't touch on ,i must say although there is always good and bad wherever you go i think you need to way out the good and the bad , how about a post of all the positives ??? if you can't think of any ,well then i geuss you need to come back to good old South Africa and we know you won't do that!! ,but i will point out a few for you

1) Are the goverment hospitals in OZ as bad as In SA anybody from here will know the answer to this

2) Can you trust the Countries police force ,and not worry that they themselves are going to Kill,Rape or rob you?? and when you put in an emergency call that they will respond within a decent time frame not 4 hrs later when you or you family have been attacked!

3) Do you have the frustration of all the taxi's doing as they please with total dis-regard for any rules of the road when you drive to work in the mornings and afternoons,and then have the traffic cops doing just as the taxi's do!

4) when you go to a goverment department and need some type of assistance i am sure you don't get the blank stares that you get in SA or "Eish i sorry" as a response to a query

5) A peaceful nights sleep not every time you dogs bark you are up looking for intruders,and having to sleep with the house alarm activated a night.

6) The mulititude of alarms,garden beams ,anti-hijack systems that we need to keep us safe and need fitted to our cars in order to get them insured

7) And yes the crime do you have to live in fear that you may get home and you wife ,husband or kids could have been attacked ,raped ,murdered, hijacked while you were at work.

These are just a few things to point out the list can go on forever! As i am sure you are aware of

You may be able to put a price on material things however can you put a price on your wife,or kids??? We all know that answer to that one, the little things you are pointing out ,i am willing to live with in OZ as the good things far outway the bad for me.

Regards

Bradley

[HenryS]

Hi Henry,

We have a 136 which is permanent residence. We registered a business as soon as we landed here. We have a very successful IT consulting and software developement business in SA, and we own the IP in all the products, which are inventory control & POS systems running on SQL Server.

I approached the QLD state government when we arrived. They have various plans for business grants, mentoring sessions, marketing courses etc. in fact a wealth of information. We had been communicating via email before our arrival.

To make a long story short, the QLD state governement has given us heaps of support and advice, and we have done many presentations to delegates, prospects, potential investors and the like, but the basic underlying current that has come from all of this is that unless we re-brand our products under our Australian business name, and proclaim them as 'Made in Australia', we are going to struggle to sell them.

This is not my opinion, it is what I have been told time and again by many many people, and it is a total contradiction, as most of the clothing and toys in OZ come from China, the cars come from South Africa and Japan, so whats the deal with Software?

Only time will tell what the best solution is but there is no way we are giving up, we are not going anywhere now.

Hi Ninja Turtle

We also live a VERY comfortable life in SA. The estate we live in has 28 properties all on big stands (5000 sqm). It really does not feel like we stay in a city BUT we also have security though.....

I was the security director for the past year and also needed to implement a radio system to keep the owners in contact with each other. This was established after one of our neighbours (who moved in 2 weeks before) were held at gunpoint 2h00 in the morning. Their little girl was lying between mom and dad when the 4 ruthless robbers intruded on their privacy. After they finished turning the house upside down they threw my neighbour in the bathroom to shoot him at point blank. Our other neighbours dog started to bark and the robbers got a fright. They left in a hurry after explicitly explaining to my neighbours wife that they are coming back for her (the little girl never stopped praying aloud). The family still goes for counselling....

We think it was some of the builders who finished their swimming pool wooden deck the previous day. We also found a window that was off clip and only pushed to a closed position. The robbers simply picked up the electric fencing of the estate and slid through like snakes between the wire and the brick wall. This incident happened in September this year. Did you guys maybe hear about this on the news? I don't think it even reached the neighbourhood newspaper...

Needless to say - we still do a radio test every night at 20H00. We established a reaction force inside the estate with owners taking turns to be on standby. When a dog barks our estate lights up with piercing torch lights looking in every corner and scanning the outside perimeter. WHAT UTTER NONCENCE! THIS IS NOT HOW IT IS SUPPOSE TO BE! I am not paying taxes to sleep with one eye open and continuously listening for dogs barking. When one of my children comes into the room in the middle of the night I wake up with the pepper spray in my right hand ready to defend whomever tries to steal our peace.....

We are giving up EVERYTHING in SA to go to Australia and we can not wait. To pursue wealth in SA in order to escape the crime (my theory) is a futile experiment. More wealth, more estates, more security, more crime...

My advice to you and your situation - learn the system. In SA we became successful by knowing the system and our clients and just plain hard work... It will take time - but you will eventually do the same in Australia. If you are motivated and willing to work hard - there is no other way but to become successful again.

My perception on people moving to Australia is that it is much harder to establish a new business over there than to go over on a working visa. I know friends who tried that and came back to SA within 7 months. From what I have heard - most of the people coming back are those who tried to establish a new business in OZ. HOWEVER - if you are willing to stick it out, you will reap the rewards and will live a much better live than what you had in South Africa. Stay positive and focussed, and take every day one at a time.

Best of luck to you mate. Will see you one of these days...

Henry

[Octavius]

Hi

We have been in Brisbane (Mansfield) for 4 months now. A previous post by Pippa (reflecting on her experience for the first three months) also summed our experience up very well.

You come across from SA with certain preconceptions, these do get shattered (maybe too a strong word) one by one. People do speed, there are road hogs, some people are unfriendly and beer is very expensive. The difference, in my experience (more on that later), is that in Aus the minority are rude, break the law (or rather disrespect the law) etc. (Beer is still expensive though). In SA I found that the majority were like this, no respect for the law, are rude and short tempered, maybe not short tempered but stressed and tense, and I don't mean only Africans. Again I have to say in my experience. I usually make major decisions based on my experience, with some detailed research .

I have had moments where I think to myself: What have I done! I never thought I'd miss the people in SA THAT much, I wasn’t that close to the people (ja sure), I had a responsible position in Eskom, I had a nice house with a big garden and we had nice THINGS (brought those with me though ). Now I'm renting a house, my kids nag because we don't have a pool, like we had in SA. I am starting over in a new company, I have to work a long while before I might get major responsibility and, may I dare say, the respect for my opinion that I had in SA. I did expect this though, as I did my research, I just didn't expect it to affect me as much as it does, but it does and you have to work through it.

Time is a wonderful thing, one thing it does is it makes you only remember the good times. The good times you had with friends, family and work in SA. You tend to forget the bad things, the things that prompted you to make a life changing decision. I need to remind myself why. Those times when you phone your wife at home and she doesn’t answer, you try the cell and still no answer, oh no, has she been mugged, robbed or raped. The times she comes home with death threats from school kids. The times your friends tell you their kids can't get into varsity because of quotas. (Studying is expensive here but you have the same chance of getting in as anybody else, it just depends on your OWN work, not some number that has to be kept at a certain level)

I must say if you convert, stuff is more expensive but we don't do the anymore, otherwise we won't buy anything. What I find weird though is we tend to come out better the end of the month. I earn the same salary that I earned in SA, with the conversion. In SA my wife was a teacher and she had to work, over here she is not working yet and we are living ok. We can go for take aways, we can go to the movies and ten pin bowling, the same stuff we did in SA. My wife said it might be due to some other costs that are lower, school for kids way less than SA, my kids are in a state school and we pay no school fees, no maid etc. One thing I have to say, I got my first quote for my car insurance and the lady said it will be $560 dollars, I thought that this was way to expensive, until she told me that this was yearly. My house insurance is $460 yearly. My biggest concern is the cost of housing, it is very very expensive, if I want the same type of house that I had in SA, in the South of Brisbane, it would cost me $650 000 plus, try convert that my calculator blew a fuse, in SA my house was R1000 000. I also find it difficult to get the value of the Aus dollar, by this I mean I don’t yet know if certain things are overpriced or bargains. Converting doesn’t help you with this.

As I said earlier all this is based on my experience. I have found speaking to other Saffers, over here, that most of us experience the move differently. I suspect this is because of the amount of research done prior to the move (or decision for that matter), what work you are doing (type and salary), where you land up in the end, who you socialise with (if with anybody, I joined a sports club and made some friends there, my wife started helping out at school) and most importantly your attitude towards the move and your new countrymen.

The above might sound obvious but it has to be taken into consideration when speaking to people about their experience or listening to their advice.

It is not easy, it is life changing and you have to be very sure about your decision, if you are married both of you.

Ciao

Tjaart

Edited December 25, 2007 by Octavius

[Annette]

Everyone in this thread make very valid points. I think it is important to see the negative as well as the positive about emigrating. However, it does also highlight clearly to me one of the most important things about emigration: Attitude is everything. I know it has been said before and I will say it a hundred times again - experiences are different for each different person, but in the end it does have a lot to do with how you accept change, how flexible you are and how your mindset is about the whole thing. Carlos has said the most important thing in this thread: You have to change your mindset BEFORE you get on the plane. Australia is very different, the people are different, the customs, the language, the shopping, houses, living etc. It's all different - but, different is only a bad thing if you see it that way. I sometimes worry about people who think they are going to read everything they can, scour the internet, participate in forums etc. in order to be perfectly prepared for the "soft landing" in Aus. My gut feeling is that that is setting yourself up for disappointment. Much better to expect that it will be hard, horrible, tough, stressful and that it will take a long long time to feel "normal" again, whilst at the same time having an open, positive attitude to all that's new and different.

One more important thing to bear in mind is that living in one small area of one city in one state does not mean that the entire Australia can now be tarred with the same brush, especially not after a few short months of overall experience. Australia is a very big place, with many many options and a great diversity of different kinds of people. Carpe Diem - Sieze the Day, seize every opportunity that comes your way and if something's ot working out, try something or somewhere different! It's up to YOU - no one else is going to do it for you.

Good luck everybody and Merry Christmas

[Guest Ninja Turtle]

I thought I'll analyze your 'analytical' container comparison.

I have a 18 year old Aussie bloke working for me - unskilled. He completed year 12 (matric) last year and he already owns his own ute - because he started wordking when he was 15. He worked for a full year as a labourer for a local landscaper - he got paid $10/hour - a total rip off, but that's the legal recommended rate in the landscaping trade for his age. I refuse to pay him that - I pay him more. He still lives with mom & dad - hardworking Aussie family. If he was completely illiterate, the pay would stay the same.

In short, he earns roughly $20 000/year (in his previous job) - that is the cost of that container to SA. He can save up and ship his container to ZA for $20 000 - it'll take a while, but in the wonderful land of Oz, he can do it.

Now, the same labourer in good old SA, will probably be black - what about matric, maybe illiterate ??????. On his salary as an unskilled labourer/garden boy or whatever - can he afford a car .......... maybe a bicycle or a donkey?????? How long is it going to take him to ship his container of R60 000 to Aus???????

According to Cosato (February 2007) - the minimum wage for a domestic worker in SA was R5.68/hour. Your 'twin' gardener in SA needs about R28/hour to earn his R60 000 to move his container to the wonderful land of OZ. The entry-point salary scale for a graduate qualified teacher was R99 625 in September 2007. Is that comparing apples to apples???? I guess you only analyzed the DIRECTION of the container .

what is this CIAO BABY stuff - just curious

My analytical mind is actually totally stuffed today - I'm not in IT - I'm actually in TOE & PISSED 'cause I'm p@ssed - sucking heavily on XXXX (think that spells BEER in IT???)

Well, I don't think your Aussie bloke will be shipping his container anytime soon, as you have not mentioned his exhorbitant expenses. As you know it will cost him a minimum of $500 per week, just to survive, with food petrol, clothes and accomodation. $100 will get you about 3 or 4 bags of groceries. A cheap t-shirt will ser you back $20, a pair of shoes $100. Petrol at least $40 per week, and rent will not be less than $250 per week for anything. What about insurance, healthcare, vices, oh and did I mention disposable income...?

Your Aussie bloke is not able to save, unless he lives with Mom & Dad, if he lived in the real world, his expenses would be $24 000 per year, which is a bit more than what he is earning.

[Guest Ninja Turtle]

Well , "Land of the lie" is a bit harsh if you ask me!!! but that is just my opinion ,i like that you are honest about a lot of things most people won't touch on ,i must say although there is always good and bad wherever you go i think you need to way out the good and the bad , how about a post of all the positives ??? if you can't think of any ,well then i geuss you need to come back to good old South Africa and we know you won't do that!! ,but i will point out a few for you

1) Are the goverment hospitals in OZ as bad as In SA anybody from here will know the answer to this

2) Can you trust the Countries police force ,and not worry that they themselves are going to Kill,Rape or rob you?? and when you put in an emergency call that they will respond within a decent time frame not 4 hrs later when you or you family have been attacked!

3) Do you have the frustration of all the taxi's doing as they please with total dis-regard for any rules of the road when you drive to work in the mornings and afternoons,and then have the traffic cops doing just as the taxi's do!

4) when you go to a goverment department and need some type of assistance i am sure you don't get the blank stares that you get in SA or "Eish i sorry" as a response to a query

5) A peaceful nights sleep not every time you dogs bark you are up looking for intruders,and having to sleep with the house alarm activated a night.

6) The mulititude of alarms,garden beams ,anti-hijack systems that we need to keep us safe and need fitted to our cars in order to get them insured

7) And yes the crime do you have to live in fear that you may get home and you wife ,husband or kids could have been attacked ,raped ,murdered, hijacked while you were at work.

These are just a few things to point out the list can go on forever! As i am sure you are aware of

You may be able to put a price on material things however can you put a price on your wife,or kids??? We all know that answer to that one, the little things you are pointing out ,i am willing to live with in OZ as the good things far outway the bad for me.

Regards

Bradley

Hi Bradley, I will answer those questions for you, and lets see how surprised you are...

1) An Ozzie bloke I know here is involved in a lawsuit because he nearly died in hospital, when he had his stomach valve repaired. So guess what, the doctor is lying through his teeth about being negligent. The hospitals here are pretty average in my opinion. When my son needed emergency help in SA, we got expert help in Krugersdorp Private Hospital, and it did not cost an arm and a leg. I would consider the private hospitals in SA to be amongst the best in the world, but I did not think so when I lived in SA. I needed to see the average stuff over here to realise how good we had it in SA.

But a hospital remains the most dangerous place in the world and the place you are most likely to die.

2. Police. I have not had the need to engage with the police except for getting a passport application verified. The station was clean, although understaffed, and the officer was polite, and friendly although not very bright. He did exactly as I asked him to although he had no idea what he was doing or why.

I see very little police on the roads, either traffic or otherwise. The speed traps are clearly marked (as they have to be by law), and the radar locations are broadcast every AM & PM on the local radio stations. That is why people speed, which is a newsflash for most, as everyone in SA believes that the Ozzies don't speed.

The murder rate here on the Gold Coast has doubled over the last year though... from 3 to 6 , I also found it funny! However you can't be complacent, just a few doors away from us, there was an intruder in a house recently, who tried to steal a kid in the middle of the night, and we live in a gated estate with 24H security (I bet you did not know that such places exist in OZ?)

3. Taxis. They are the worst drivers on the roads in OZ, but agreed they are not of the calibre of SA's taxi drivers. However they WILL do a U turn in front of you, and they WILL tailgate you, and their car is just as fast and as new as yours, and they don't speak english, as they are mostly illegial immigrants, who could not find proper work. (They don't seem to carry guns though).

4. Government departments are extremely efficient, and the computer systems are well connected. As are the local councils. For example we have a mobile library that comes to our suburb every 2 weeks, and you can reserve your books, DVD's CD's, Games online, and collect for free, and keep for 2 weeks.

5. A peacful night's sleep is the norm, but then where I lived in SA it was the norm too, so for me there is no change there.

6. We have an alarm in our house, and so does every other house in the estate, it is included in the body corporate fee of $90 pw. A lot of houses do have alarms here (another newsflash), and the police do not respond to them, you have to make a call to the police to get help. Our estate has what is known as a back-to-base system, which is a silent alarm in the house but a signal goes to the control room. Our estate is patrolled 24 hours a day by a private security company, with intelligent, literate, armed guards.

7) Crime statistics are available on the police website: http://www.police.qld.gov.au. There is less racially motivated crime here, and less murder, but there is still a lot of violent crime. Teenagers, and young adults, are the worst offenders, and there are heaps of bar fights that injure and kill people. Most of the murders here are comitted by somebody known to the victim. Just a few weeks ago, a woman disappeared in Helensvale, and they arrested her ex husband week later, who led them to a shallow grave...

Hijackings are not common here, I have not heard of such a thing happening, but home invasions are on the rise, although not as violent as in SA, and you are more likely to be confronted by drug crazed teenagers with baseball bats than ruthless killers with guns, who want to rape your wife in front of you. But sadly there are more and more home invasions happening here and its not an uncommon event.

What is more disturbing than the crime though, is the number of fatal motorcycle and motor vehicle accidents. The kids drive like lunatics in high powered supercharged/turbocharged V8's. They go out at night and 'drift' around the roundabouts, and kill themselves and innocent bystanders in the process. In my opinion, your kids are more at risk in a vehicle or on a motorcycle than from any other thing over here.

I think this phenomenon is partly caused by the lack of facilities like legal race tracks and drag strips like you have in SA. There are very few facilities like that here. We bought my son a dirt bike when we came here, but there is absolutely nowhere to ride it legally.

In a nutshell, the way I see it, is that we have swopped one set of problems for a different set of problems, and we are not here i OZ long enough to know the system well enough to have a workaround for all the things that bother us. In SA you know the system and you are usually in a position to think of a workaround to a particular problem.

We also saw the problems in SA as something unique to SA, and now we have realised that the world is changing into a very violent place, a battle between the have's and the have-not's, and its not unique to SA, probably just worse in SA.

I was chatting to a lady yesterday who has emigrated to AUS from Sao Paulo in Brazil, and what she described to me is even worse than SA. They have 2 or 3 kidnappings a day in Sao Paulo. They will steal your jewellery, your car and even your sneakers. That's right, your takkies, they will hold you up at gun point and take your takkies... The result is that people dress down and drive chap cars.

Sau Paulo has squatter camps just like SA, and the president is an illiterate uneducated crook. Sound familiar?

I have spoken to a few people in QLD, who are involved in government, and they say that Australia has deteriorated a lot in the past 15 years, and that the levels of crime and corruption have increased dramatically. They have admitted that the government needs to take note of what is happening around the world and tighten up policies instead of relaxing them, in order to "nip it in the bud" so to speak.

So there you have your answers to the questions and a bit extra to mull over.

Cheers

[Gizmo]

Hi Bradley, I will answer those questions for you, and lets see how surprised you are...

1) An Ozzie bloke I know here is involved in a lawsuit because he nearly died in hospital, when he had his stomach valve repaired. So guess what, the doctor is lying through his teeth about being negligent. The hospitals here are pretty average in my opinion. When my son needed emergency help in SA, we got expert help in Krugersdorp Private Hospital, and it did not cost an arm and a leg. I would consider the private hospitals in SA to be amongst the best in the world, but I did not think so when I lived in SA. I needed to see the average stuff over here to realise how good we had it in SA.

But a hospital remains the most dangerous place in the world and the place you are most likely to die.

Sorry, but I had to comment on this one.

Two people in my life have been murdered. The first happened in Cape Town to my old boss - the gentlest soul alive and a well respected Architect and Landscape Architect. The second happened in Sydney to my Godparents son. By your reasoning, therefore, crime is equally bad in both SA and Aus.

WRONG!

One botched operation does not mean that the entire Aus medical system is questionable any more than one murder in Sydney makes the Aus crime rate equal to that of SA.

I don't have any other comments about your post, not because I agree with the rest, but to be frank, I didn't see any point in continuing reading as your logic is a bit off the mark.

But, now that I have shocked everybody and been enormously blunt and displayed a complete lack of diplomacy, I did appreciate your initial comment in this thread. It is not all sunshine and roses emigrating, and I can imagine it must be incredibly tough adapting to a new country, new culture, basically, a completely new way of life. I like to be prepared and don't want the wool pulled over my eyes, only to be shocked on the other side. Please continue to bring on both the good and the bad - I think it is a huge help to those of us yet to make the move.

[Guest Mauritz]

You summed it up well - the 'problems' here are just a storm in a teacup, compared to those of Azania.

The hospitals here are pretty average in my opinion.

Guess they don't handle that many gunshot, knife & spear wounds. You just don't get those rape victims streaming in. Hospitals in Aus can be real boring places.

the officer was polite, and friendly although not very bright. He did exactly as I asked him to although he had no idea what he was doing or why.

Have a look at the training for police officers in this country - they must be bright as they study university level subject on many levels. I guess you do remember those bright & intelligent policemen of Azania - who in the world can compete with them???

The murder rate here on the Gold Coast has doubled over the last year though... from 3 to 6 tongue.gif , I also found it funny!

The Gold Coast is heavily populated - the murder rate low - I find it excellent Violent crime?????? Can you really compare it with crime in SA?? Open any Aussie newspaper today and compare it with the 10% reported crime in any South African newspaper. What about the real hardcore statistics????

A peacful night's sleep is the norm, but then where I lived in SA it was the norm too, so for me there is no change there.

Glad to hear that a peaceful night's sleep is still available in good oll Africa

We have an alarm in our house, and so does every other house in the estate, it is included in the body corporate fee of $90 pw.

Is that a new thing in Aus to keep the mossies away??? I've been here for 12 years - I don't know anyone with such a noisy apparatus.

You mention the 'bar fights' etc. I've been in more bar fights in Southern Africa that I can count (tells you something hey). Bars & pubs here in Aus are family orientated areas. Believe me - South Africans pick their little fists up much quicker that anyone else. I've never seen any aggression in a public place.

The kind of crime and injuries you're talking about is common anywhere in the world - I call it 'rich man's crime' - rich kids in their pumped cars. Drug related crimes - always in 'rich' areas. The home invasions you mentioned are mostly drug related. If you look at the studies & statistics - the majority of these are possible, because people don't lock their houses.

Where there are people there are problems. I see and experience less problems in this country - THAT'S IT.

[Nilo]

Ninja T, I have been following and reading your post and the answers and what I get out of it is that you have lots of money and are spoilt!! Sorry that I have to come out with it but the others are thinking that as well. (maybe just to scared to come out with it!)

So tell us what is it that you want/expected to find in Australia?

And then, if you don't like it go back to South Africa if you found it so safe and efficient there!!

Regards

Nilo

[Guest Ninja Turtle]

Ninja T, I have been following and reading your post and the answers and what I get out of it is that you have lots of money and are spoilt!! Sorry that I have to come out with it but the others are thinking that as well. (maybe just to scared to come out with it!)

So tell us what is it that you want/expected to find in Australia?

And then, if you don't like it go back to South Africa if you found it so safe and efficient there!!

Regards

Nilo

You can never be too rich. I don't think I have lots of money, Bill Gates has lots of money...

I expected to find more in OZ than what I have found, quite honestly. For years I had been lulled into this perception that SA was no good, and that Australia, UK & USA is where its all happening, but that is not actually correct. SA has a lot of business opportunities for entrepreneurs, and even for employed people, you get bonuses, and perks. There are no bonuses or perks in OZ, you just work hard, harder than you would work in SA.

I dont remember referring to SA as safe and efficient, so maybe you should read my post's in more detail, so that you can correctly understand the content.. just a thought