Negative Vetassess for Employment

[Che]

Hi All,

 

So I am very new to this site as well as this process.

 

My husband and I have started with the immigration process, we are using an agent which has been of great help.

 

We are stuck at the moment with VETASSESS.

 

My husband is the main applicant and has a Bcom Marketing management, we have gotten a positive for his degree see below:

Nominated Occupation: Technical Sales Representatives nec (ANZSCO Code: 225499)

Qualification/s: 1. Baccalaureus Commercii awarded in 2006 by the University of Johannesburg, South Africa is assessed as comparable to the educational level of an AQF Bachelor degree and is therefore at the required level.
Field of study Marketing Management is highly relevant.

 

We have gotten a negative for his work experience see below:

Country of employment: South Africa
Employment assessed:

1. Export Sales Consultant / Key Account Manager, ..........(05/2013 to 08/2015)

The employment Export Sales Consultant / Key Account Manager,  (05/2013 to 08/2015) does not meet the minimum requirements for this occupation as the tasks undertaken are not highly relevant to the ANZSCO tasks for the nominated occupation

2. National Sales Manager, .......... (09/2015 to 02/2018)

The employment National Sales Manager, ......... (09/2015 to 02/2018) does not meet the minimum requirements for this occupation as the tasks undertaken are not highly relevant to the ANZSCO tasks for the nominated occupation 
The employment described above does not meet the minimum requirements for this occupation as
According to ANZSCO, Technical Sales Representatives nec represent companies in selling a range of products and services that are not elsewhere classified in ANZSCO. However, your product range refer to polymer industrial products and therefore does not meet the nec criteria of the nominated occupation. A positive assessment of both qualifications and employment is required for a positive Skills Assessment Outcome.

 

We are busy putting together evidence, that his duties and relevant to the ANZSCO tasks and that he does not fall under industrial sales.

 

So my question is, has any one gotten a positive employment assessment after they reassessed with additional evidence? What additional evidence did you supply?

[TeeTMI]

Bad luck Che, I see you are using an agent so they can talk you through the options and requirements - and hopefully some others can provide some comments from their experiences.

 

It certainly is possible to get a positive skills assessment after having received a negative one - however it does require that the issues that Vetassess raised are addressed.

 

 

[Che]

7 hours ago, TeeTMI said:

Bad luck Che, I see you are using an agent so they can talk you through the options and requirements - and hopefully some others can provide some comments from their experiences.

 

It certainly is possible to get a positive skills assessment after having received a negative one - however it does require that the issues that Vetassess raised are addressed.

 

 

 

Thank you for the info. I have asked my agent all of the below and having no luck. Would you recommend that I call the VETASSESS agent myself?

 

What type of evidence can we submit?

 

We are busy re doing his CV so that his duties fall in line with the ANZSCO codes ones, is there anything else you can recommend?

 

Would VETASSESS look only at the companies names and then assume that he is selling plastic products instead of researching his department? 

[FromDurbs]

I had to submit job descriptions and a list of my duties.  I would imagine they assess these against what is expected of someone doing that ANZSCO code. 

[Che]

2 minutes ago, FromDurbs said:

I had to submit job descriptions and a list of my duties.  I would imagine they assess these against what is expected of someone doing that ANZSCO code. 

 

We did submit his CV and job descriptions previously, but if we simplify them and re submit would that suffice?

 

Should we get letters from his previous employers stating his job descriptions and duties?

[FingersCrossed]

4 hours ago, Che said:

Should we get letters from his previous employers stating his job descriptions and duties?

I would get that. Wouldnt hurt and could help with them assessing.

[ChrisH]

19 hours ago, Che said:

Should we get letters from his previous employers stating his job descriptions and duties?

 

This would be my suggestion, but I'd recommend typing up the letters yourself and sending it to those employers.

 

For my assessment (went through a different accessing body) I looked at the occupation code requirements and typed up letters with those keywords they are looking for. 

I got a representative from each of my employers to sign a letter with company header, name, those responsibilities and dates on it.  

 

Basically, you need to make it as simple as possible for them to see that your experience matches what the assessment requirements are.

[HappyIsland]

My guess is that in the particular work episode in question, they assume he was in industrial sales. If he did not work in industrial sales, you will have to update the reference letter for that work episode with more specific tasks that states exactly what he did in order to put any doubts to rest.

 

I had a somewhat similar experience with my ACS Skills Assessment. They required more evidence and updated employment references for all my work episodes.

They wanted the tasks under my employment duties to be very specific - much more than any reference would normally require. I had to flesh it out on a very detailed level for them, and I had to go back to all the employers who already did references to have this done.

 

3 Things to keep in mind:

• Have a look at the ANZSCO code. It lists what the duties for that occupation should be
• The duties listed in your reference letters must be at least 70% relevant to the nominated occupation (as above point). If it's not, you won't get awarded experience for that specific work episode.
• The duties must be detailed.

I would suggest contacting them via email and get an explanation in writing with regards to what the specifics are they require, and to get a possible extension on how long you have to supply the updated info. We struggled quite a bit to get more details out of them as the first response was not forthcoming with any additional details other than the information required is not sufficient, but with persistence involving a few phone calls and email messages, my migration agent managed to chat with a line manager who gave us more specific information which basically states that they needed more specific duties/tasks.

Once I got all the letters updated with the relevant information, I received a positive assessment about a week later.

[Che]

18 hours ago, HappyIsland said:

My guess is that in the particular work episode in question, they assume he was in industrial sales. If he did not work in industrial sales, you will have to update the reference letter for that work episode with more specific tasks that states exactly what he did in order to put any doubts to rest.

 

I had a somewhat similar experience with my ACS Skills Assessment. They required more evidence and updated employment references for all my work episodes.

They wanted the tasks under my employment duties to be very specific - much more than any reference would normally require. I had to flesh it out on a very detailed level for them, and I had to go back to all the employers who already did references to have this done.

 

3 Things to keep in mind:

• Have a look at the ANZSCO code. It lists what the duties for that occupation should be
• The duties listed in your reference letters must be at least 70% relevant to the nominated occupation (as above point). If it's not, you won't get awarded experience for that specific work episode.
• The duties must be detailed.

I would suggest contacting them via email and get an explanation in writing with regards to what the specifics are they require, and to get a possible extension on how long you have to supply the updated info. We struggled quite a bit to get more details out of them as the first response was not forthcoming with any additional details other than the information required is not sufficient, but with persistence involving a few phone calls and email messages, my migration agent managed to chat with a line manager who gave us more specific information which basically states that they needed more specific duties/tasks.

Once I got all the letters updated with the relevant information, I received a positive assessment about a week later.

 

Thank you very much. Will start working on this as well.

If we had to submit company brochure  to show that he does not sell a range of specialised chemicals, machines, manufacturing materials and other industrial supplies as stated by the code, would that be sufficient with the ref letters and new CV?

[HappyIsland]

1 hour ago, Che said:

If we had to submit company brochure  to show that he does not sell a range of specialised chemicals, machines, manufacturing materials and other industrial supplies as stated by the code, would that be sufficient with the ref letters and new CV?

 

The requirements for the ACS and VetAssess and quite clear. I strongly urge you to read the VetAssess application document and pay close attention to the requirements. Both the ACS and VetAssess are generally quite strict, and understandably so due to the thousands of fraudulent applications they receive.

The key things the assessors look at are if the job duties align closely with the nominated occupation. The employment references and duties listen therein are very important. If your husband's job duties does not align closely with the nominated occupation, then you will not be able to get a positive outcome. 

I'm not sure  if a brochure will help you. They're more interested in determining what the applicant's specific job duties were, and how that aligns with the nominated application.
 

Good luck.

[Che]

25 minutes ago, HappyIsland said:

I'm not sure  if a brochure will help you. They're more interested in determining what the applicant's specific job duties were, and how that aligns with the nominated application.
 

Good luck.

 

Thank you so much for your advise it really has been helpful.

 

The reason I am asked about the brochures, is that he works for a company that manufactures plastic components and VETASSES specifically said "According to ANZSCO, Technical Sales Representatives nec represent companies in selling a range of products and services that are not elsewhere classified in ANZSCO. However, your product
range refer to polymer industrial products and therefore does not meet the nec criteria of the nominated occupation." but the products he sells are for the woodworking industry.

[Husky]

Hi @Che

I received a positive assessment from Vetassess after an initial negative assessment. It is such a tough process to go through on top of the expense of a reassessment.

All the advice above is correct. You need to have reference letters from companies and a CV that matches the ANZSCO description for the occupation. Would also help to add an explanation for each of their points. Feel free to send me a PM me if you have any other questions. 

[HappyIsland]

In terms of the brochure, I understand you want to use the brochure as supporting evidence. However, the brochure is generic information that does not apply specifically to your husband. A cleaner or a typist working at a hospital cannot use the hospital's brochure as evidence of their job duties and your husband won't be able to use a brochure as evidence of his job duties and products sold.

The question is simply, why bother with a brochure if you can provide them with the supporting evidence in the required format which is a reference letter signed by a line manager?

You're lucky in the sense that the reasons they provided are very clear. It's now up to you to provide them with supporting evidence in the form of updated references in order to get a positive assessment.

[Che]

Hey Guys,

 

So we re submitted a new application to VETASSESS with a new CV and evidence for my husband. We took the ANZSCO code tasks for Technical Sales NEC and just about copied them word for word on his CV as well as had a new ref letter signed with the same tasks, but they still say "the tasks undertaken are not highly relevant to the ANZSCO tasks
for the nominated occupation" and " The employment described above does not meet the minimum requirements for this occupation as According to ANZSCO, Technical Sales Representatives sell a range of products and services to industrial, business, professional and other establishments. NEC refers to not elsewhere classified. According to the documents provided, you are primarily selling woodworking and plastic products/components used in furniture manufacturing which are classified as industrial products. Therefore the use of NEC does not apply to your paid employment.".

 

Is there a document or a guideline as to what products fall under each code? Because if we had know this would be the out come again, we would not have just paid another R 10K.  

 

Also I see that Industrial sales is on the ANZSCO search website on the ROL List for a 187 visa, would my husband have to find work first before we go this root?

 

I am really devastated at the moment as I was hoping this would come back positive for us to apply for a 190 visa.

[HappyIsland]

2 minutes ago, Che said:

Hey Guys,

 

So we re submitted a new application to VETASSESS with a new CV and evidence for my husband. We took the ANZSCO code tasks for Technical Sales NEC and just about copied them word for word on his CV as well as had a new ref letter signed with the same tasks, but they still say "the tasks undertaken are not highly relevant to the ANZSCO tasks
for the nominated occupation" and " The employment described above does not meet the minimum requirements for this occupation as According to ANZSCO, Technical Sales Representatives sell a range of products and services to industrial, business, professional and other establishments. NEC refers to not elsewhere classified. According to the documents provided, you are primarily selling woodworking and plastic products/components used in furniture manufacturing which are classified as industrial products. Therefore the use of NEC does not apply to your paid employment.".

 

Is there a document or a guideline as to what products fall under each code? Because if we had know this would be the out come again, we would not have just paid another R 10K.  

 

Also I see that Industrial sales is on the ANZSCO search website on the ROL List for a 187 visa, would my husband have to find work first before we go this root?

 

I am really devastated at the moment as I was hoping this would come back positive for us to apply for a 190 visa.

Definitely engage with a migration agent to get some specific advice. In simple terms it appears that the job duties your husband performed does not align with the expected job duties / types of products sold for that occupation as outlined in the ANZSCO code.

At this stage, making any further changes to the duties in the reference letter will most certainly be met with scrutiny - even if you change it to their exact requirements, VETASSESS will certainly cross check all the duties with all the employers.
My advice would be to be honest about the job duties performed, and if it does not align with the requirements, accept it.

[Che]

20 minutes ago, HappyIsland said:

Definitely engage with a migration agent to get some specific advice. In simple terms it appears that the job duties your husband performed does not align with the expected job duties / types of products sold for that occupation as outlined in the ANZSCO code.

At this stage, making any further changes to the duties in the reference letter will most certainly be met with scrutiny - even if you change it to their exact requirements, VETASSESS will certainly cross check all the duties with all the employers.
My advice would be to be honest about the job duties performed, and if it does not align with the requirements, accept it.

Hi HappyIsland,

 

Thank you for your info.

 

We are dealing with an agent. 

 

We took the exact tasks as per ANZSCO and applied them to the CV and reference letter.

 

We have been honest about the job duties in both applications but still have not met their requirements. 

 

There are not products outlined in the ANZSCO code descriptions that is why I am trying to find out if there is a different document for this.

 

I'm sorry if my post has cause an issue, but just like you we are trying to make a future plan for our kids.

[Siddharaj]

On 7/3/2018 at 8:30 PM, Husky said:

Hi @Che

I received a positive assessment from Vetassess after an initial negative assessment. It is such a tough process to go through on top of the expense of a reassessment.

All the advice above is correct. You need to have reference letters from companies and a CV that matches the ANZSCO description for the occupation. Would also help to add an explanation for each of their points. Feel free to send me a PM me if you have any other questions. 

 I need some advice from you. Initially i got negative skill assessment from vetasses now i am going to do it again from another occupation. Can i add one more duty that i didn't submit on my first assessment?

[Onesassa]

On 6/26/2018 at 5:04 PM, Che said:

Hi All,

 

So I am very new to this site as well as this process.

 

My husband and I have started with the immigration process, we are using an agent which has been of great help.

 

We are stuck at the moment with VETASSESS.

 

My husband is the main applicant and has a Bcom Marketing management, we have gotten a positive for his degree see below:

Nominated Occupation: Technical Sales Representatives nec (ANZSCO Code: 225499)

Qualification/s: 1. Baccalaureus Commercii awarded in 2006 by the University of Johannesburg, South Africa is assessed as comparable to the educational level of an AQF Bachelor degree and is therefore at the required level.
Field of study Marketing Management is highly relevant.

 

We have gotten a negative for his work experience see below:

Country of employment: South Africa
Employment assessed:

1. Export Sales Consultant / Key Account Manager, ..........(05/2013 to 08/2015)

The employment Export Sales Consultant / Key Account Manager,  (05/2013 to 08/2015) does not meet the minimum requirements for this occupation as the tasks undertaken are not highly relevant to the ANZSCO tasks for the nominated occupation

2. National Sales Manager, .......... (09/2015 to 02/2018)

The employment National Sales Manager, ......... (09/2015 to 02/2018) does not meet the minimum requirements for this occupation as the tasks undertaken are not highly relevant to the ANZSCO tasks for the nominated occupation 
The employment described above does not meet the minimum requirements for this occupation as
According to ANZSCO, Technical Sales Representatives nec represent companies in selling a range of products and services that are not elsewhere classified in ANZSCO. However, your product range refer to polymer industrial products and therefore does not meet the nec criteria of the nominated occupation. A positive assessment of both qualifications and employment is required for a positive Skills Assessment Outcome.

 

We are busy putting together evidence, that his duties and relevant to the ANZSCO tasks and that he does not fall under industrial sales.

 

So my question is, has any one gotten a positive employment assessment after they reassessed with additional evidence? What additional evidence did you supply?

Hi Che, 

 

thanks for your question! I am in desperate need of a good agent that is familiar with Management profession (I received a negative Vetassess Outcome for Management Consultant). Would you mind sharing his/her details with me?  Thanks so much in advance!!

[Adey]

On 7/3/2018 at 10:30 PM, Husky said:

Hi @Che

I received a positive assessment from Vetassess after an initial negative assessment. It is such a tough process to go through on top of the expense of a reassessment.

All the advice above is correct. You need to have reference letters from companies and a CV that matches the ANZSCO description for the occupation. Would also help to add an explanation for each of their points. Feel free to send me a PM me if you have any other questions. 

Hi Husky, can you please help me out in this process as we had a submitted all of documents according to the Azcsco but still have received a negative outcome. 

Could you please contact me any how?

0410933289

[lita23]

On 4/30/2019 at 10:11 PM, Onesassa said:

Hi Che, 

 

thanks for your question! I am in desperate need of a good agent that is familiar with Management profession (I received a negative Vetassess Outcome for Management Consultant). Would you mind sharing his/her details with me?  Thanks so much in advance!!

Hi @Onesassa, it happened with me as well. I just received a negative outcome from Vetassess for Management Consultant. Have you got a positive assessment afterwards?

 

Thank you

[Shrishti]

On 4/30/2019 at 10:11 PM, Onesassa said:

Hi Che, 

 

thanks for your question! I am in desperate need of a good agent that is familiar with Management profession (I received a negative Vetassess Outcome for Management Consultant). Would you mind sharing his/her details with me?  Thanks so much in advance!!

Hi @Onesassa @lita23,

 

The same happened with me as well. Were you able to receive a positive outcome afterwards? I am looking for a good agent or any advice in general before submitting reassessment. 

 

Thanks in advance.