Contributory Parent 143 Visa Support group

[AJM22]

2 hours ago, SGS143 said:

Hi @AJM22,

 

Thank you so much for your detailed analysis. It is very disheartening to look at these numbers. 

 

Could I please confirm one of your calculations ? You are suggesting that if you applied for 143 Visa in June 2016 it would take 6 months to get it. But this ignores the fact that there were already about 30,000 people in the que as at 30 June 2016. So the real wait is around 8 years (30,000/3,600 assuming that only 3,600 visa are granted since June 2016, which is lower than actual numbers from from 2016 to 2019). If my interpretation of your numbers is correct and someone has applied in September 2017 (using actual visa granted and an assumption of 3600 visas granted from 2020 onwards) they will get the visa in mid 2029, which is equivalent to around 12 years of waiting period. Is that correct ?

 

Thanks Again !

 

Hi  SGS143

 

The numbers are disheartening and many people have applied for the 143 visa without being made aware of how large the queue has grown along with further delays due to annual CPV 143 cap being reduced significantly.

 

No the calculations do not indicate that if you applied for the 143 Visa in June 2016 that it would take six months to get it. The 2nd table shows outstanding visa applications/month that have yet to be released for final processing as of 30th October 2020 for applications in the period June 2016 until September 2020. The end column "years to process" gives an idea of how long the outstanding applications made in each month will take to process based on the queue as of October 2020 assuming that annual 143 visa cap of 3600 places is fulfilled each year. In this case the overall processing time for applications made in June 2016 would be approximately 5 years as they should be released for processing during this migration year.

 

For a 143 visa application made in September 2017 the cumulative number of outstanding 143 visa applications in the queue as of October 2020 was 20795. Based on an annual 143 visa cap of 3600 places it is estimated that it will take a further 5.75 years for these to be processed as of October 2020 (20795 divided by 3600) which takes you to around about July 2026 which would be equivalent to around about  9 years of waiting. This assumes that annual 143 visa cap is fulfilled each migration year.

 

The situation is considerably worse for anyone applying September 2020 onwards. As of October 2020 for 143 visa applications made in September 2020 the outstanding number of applications in the queue was 49688. Based on the annual cap of 3600- 143 visa applications made in September 2020 would take approx 13.8 years to be approved (49688 divided by 3600).

 

You can only hope that the Australian government review parent visas and increase the annual cap significantly to clear the backlog especially for the CPV143 visa where the whole point of paying the higher amount for the visa was to fast track entry and to be reunited with family.

 

They have increased the annual cap on partner applications significantly from 39799 places in 2019/20 to 72300 places in 2020/21 and 2021/22. 

 

 

[Mel-B]

Do we know what the average amount of visas are per processing year that "fall out" due to change of mind or not being eligible for the 143 category? I read once it was about 20% but I can't confirm this number. 

 

What a waste of money for so many people. My mum put away half of her pension for the visa and the initial instalment but her funds are running low as the time just got LONGER AND LONGER. On our original timeline she would have been very close to joining us by now and yet she has another 5 years to go.

 

The reality is she will have to use her visa money to live on. So...... I feel angry and frustrated.

 

 

[RadagastBrown]

I am applying for 143 visas for my parents in law and was hoping someone who did their own application forms could assist with a simple question re which forms are required. My wife (Australian citizen) is the sponsor and both parents are applying for 143s.

1) Do both parents need to complete Form 47PA Application for Parent to Migrate or only mum as the "primary" applicant?

2) Do both parents need to complete Form 47A Details of a Child or Dependent Family Member? Would this only be dad who is required to complete this form as mum has already put her details on a 47PA? It says every member of the family unit so I figured maybe they both need to complete this form?

3) Does my wife (the sponsor) need to complete a Form 47A also given she is technically a member of the family unit or is this not required because she has filled out a Form 40 Sponsorship for Migration to Australia?

We want to make sure we don't make a silly mistake like leaving out one of the forms for a $100,000 application and as these are the only issues I have it is not worth paying thousands extra for a migration agent.

Thank you very much to anyone who has applied and is able to help!

[SGS143]

19 hours ago, AJM22 said:

Hi  SGS143

 

The numbers are disheartening and many people have applied for the 143 visa without being made aware of how large the queue has grown along with further delays due to annual CPV 143 cap being reduced significantly.

 

No the calculations do not indicate that if you applied for the 143 Visa in June 2016 that it would take six months to get it. The 2nd table shows outstanding visa applications/month that have yet to be released for final processing as of 30th October 2020 for applications in the period June 2016 until September 2020. The end column "years to process" gives an idea of how long the outstanding applications made in each month will take to process based on the queue as of October 2020 assuming that annual 143 visa cap of 3600 places is fulfilled each year. In this case the overall processing time for applications made in June 2016 would be approximately 5 years as they should be released for processing during this migration year.

 

For a 143 visa application made in September 2017 the cumulative number of outstanding 143 visa applications in the queue as of October 2020 was 20795. Based on an annual 143 visa cap of 3600 places it is estimated that it will take a further 5.75 years for these to be processed as of October 2020 (20795 divided by 3600) which takes you to around about July 2026 which would be equivalent to around about  9 years of waiting. This assumes that annual 143 visa cap is fulfilled each migration year.

 

The situation is considerably worse for anyone applying September 2020 onwards. As of October 2020 for 143 visa applications made in September 2020 the outstanding number of applications in the queue was 49688. Based on the annual cap of 3600- 143 visa applications made in September 2020 would take approx 13.8 years to be approved (49688 divided by 3600).

 

You can only hope that the Australian government review parent visas and increase the annual cap significantly to clear the backlog especially for the CPV143 visa where the whole point of paying the higher amount for the visa was to fast track entry and to be reunited with family.

 

They have increased the annual cap on partner applications significantly from 39799 places in 2019/20 to 72300 places in 2020/21 and 2021/22. 

 

 

Thank you so much for explaining this in more detail. I understand Government's reasoning behind that decision, however, Australia might start loosing a lot of young professionals who will choose not to come to Australia or leave Australia to be with their parents. I'm really not sure how economically beneficial this decision is. 

[AJM22]

5 hours ago, SGS143 said:

Thank you so much for explaining this in more detail. I understand Government's reasoning behind that decision, however, Australia might start loosing a lot of young professionals who will choose not to come to Australia or leave Australia to be with their parents. I'm really not sure how economically beneficial this decision is. 

I agree completely with you that the decision to reduce parent visa allocations may not be economically beneficial as Australia's economic growth has been founded on immigration and attracting young skilled professionals over the past 30 years. Australia is a country built on migration and if they cannot attract or retain these young professionals due to them being isolated from their parents the risk is they will look to settle elsewhere in countries such as Canada. 

Hopefully the Government will have a review of their policy regarding parent visas and allocate more annual places to ensure it is able to continue to attract young professionals into the country as Australia cannot rely on natural population growth to boost its numbers to grow the economy going forward. 

[AJM22]

10 hours ago, Mel-B said:

Do we know what the average amount of visas are per processing year that "fall out" due to change of mind or not being eligible for the 143 category? I read once it was about 20% but I can't confirm this number. 

 

What a waste of money for so many people. My mum put away half of her pension for the visa and the initial instalment but her funds are running low as the time just got LONGER AND LONGER. On our original timeline she would have been very close to joining us by now and yet she has another 5 years to go.

 

The reality is she will have to use her visa money to live on. So...... I feel angry and frustrated.

 

 

Mel-B  I understand your frustration

 

I have a family member who is trying to relocate to Australia to be with his daughter and grandchildren and who applied for his 143 CPV in Oct 2017 and who was anticipating being over in Australia by the end of this year, however realistically based on the outstanding queue as of October 2020 and reduced allocation/cap along with shortfall on visa grant it is likely it will be at least another 6 years before his visa may be granted. 

The frustrating part is that the emigration agent that is handling his case appear oblivious to the number of outstanding applications in the queue and keep being over optimistic.  

In his case the 3300 143 CPV applications made in May 2017 and 5185 43 CPV applications made in June 2017 have impacted severely as these two months alone will take nearly 2.5 years to clear based on the current 3600 annual cap for CPV 143 visas.

 

The rejection rate for Contributory visas is generally less than Non Contributory visas. Even if you assume a rejection rate 10% for various reasons this makes very little difference to the already sizeable queue where processing time is further impacted by the governments decision to lower the annual cap for parent visas.

 

It is all very disappointing especially as the whole point of applying for the CPV 143 visa whilst paying the higher fee was to allow fast-track entry into Australia for applications based on the original queue size/higher annual cap where the visa would generally be granted in under 3 years. 

 

 

 

[AJM22]

https://www.lawcouncil.asn.au/publicassets/d393eb00-1c70-eb11-9439-005056be13b5/3960 - Australias 2021-22 Migration Program.pdf

 

Comment made regarding parent visas during the 2021/2022 migration planning submission.  See above link.

 

 

[Janti]

Based on the new processing time for the 143 (assumed processing time based on the cap and number of applications) is the 173 + 143 a more attractive option? Would that result in a faster time to ultimately getting the 143? Or is the 173 influenced by the same cap? 

[AJM22]

I believe if you apply for a Contributory  173 Temporary visa that this is  influenced by the same cap. If applying for a 173 Visa Temporary visa and then subsequently applying for the  Contributory 143 Permanent visa later I believe the application queue date for the 143 visa application will reflect the date that you originally applied for the 173 Temporary visa but I suggest you get this confirmed.

 

https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2021L00511

[Sahba]

I have a question I’m waiting for my parents to get their 143 visa from June 2017

if they become able to come to Australia soon can I change their application to another onshore visa? For example apply for 864?

Will then they back to the beginning of the queue or they will consider their waiting time from 2017?

Or Is there anyway we notify they are now inside the Australian so that they  consider their current  143 application as onshore?

Edited July 21, 2021 by Sahba

[Donovan83]

I'm glad to see people are talking about this problem. It really is very disheartening to have such a low cap being applied to parents - I really hope that the inquiry into this issue helps to result in a fairer immigration system. At the very least, the 143 visa processing needs to be sped up once COVID19 is behind us.

 

Just in case anyone missed it - https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Senate/Legal_and_Constitutional_Affairs/FamilyandPartnerVisas

[AJM22]

27 minutes ago, Donovan83 said:

I'm glad to see people are talking about this problem. It really is very disheartening to have such a low cap being applied to parents - I really hope that the inquiry into this issue helps to result in a fairer immigration system. At the very least, the 143 visa processing needs to be sped up once COVID19 is behind us.

 

Just in case anyone missed it - https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Senate/Legal_and_Constitutional_Affairs/FamilyandPartnerVisas

 

The submissions to the Senate Enquiry can be reviewed using the link below.

 

Submissions from the public and other organisations ended in April 2021 and the report is due out on 10 August 2021

 

https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Senate/Legal_and_Constitutional_Affairs/FamilyandPartnerVisas

 

https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Senate/Legal_and_Constitutional_Affairs/FamilyandPartnerVisas/Media_Releases

 

https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Senate/Legal_and_Constitutional_Affairs/FamilyandPartnerVisas/Submissions

 

https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Senate/Legal_and_Constitutional_Affairs/FamilyandPartnerVisas/Public_Hearings

 

Submission 60 gives a good account of the situation regarding Contributory Parent Visas however only 64 submissions were made to the Senate Enquiry. (link to submission 60 below).

 

Submission 60.pdf

 

Chart below regarding Contributory Parent Visa Activity from submission made by The Office of Home Affairs. 

 

 

 

[AJM22]

13 minutes ago, AJM22 said:

 

The submissions to the Senate Enquiry can be reviewed using the link below.

 

Submissions from the public and other organisations ended in April 2021 and the report is due out on 10 August 2021

 

https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Senate/Legal_and_Constitutional_Affairs/FamilyandPartnerVisas

 

https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Senate/Legal_and_Constitutional_Affairs/FamilyandPartnerVisas/Media_Releases

 

https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Senate/Legal_and_Constitutional_Affairs/FamilyandPartnerVisas/Submissions

 

https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Senate/Legal_and_Constitutional_Affairs/FamilyandPartnerVisas/Public_Hearings

 

Submission 60 gives a good account of the situation regarding Contributory Parent Visas however only 64 submissions were made to the Senate Enquiry. (link to submission 60 below).

 

Submission 60.pdf

 

Chart below regarding Contributory Parent Visa Activity from submission made by The Office of Home Affairs. 

 

 

 

 

Response to questions on notice from the Law Council of Australia- see page 6

 

https://www.aph.gov.au/DocumentStore.ashx?id=20a56c2e-6c61-4271-84da-b250e7e1ddcb

 

 

 

[Elna57]

@WendyAllison

Have you heard anything yet about your application?

Would be great to hear some good news.

We have been in Australia for almost 4 years and in February 2022 we will be able to apply for citizenship. I am very excited about that.

Good luck to everyone in the queue and let's all hope that everything will speed up after Covid. (If there ever will be such a thing as 'after Covid'.)

[Sahba]

On 7/22/2021 at 12:36 AM, AJM22 said:

 

Response to questions on notice from the Law Council of Australia- see page 6

 

https://www.aph.gov.au/DocumentStore.ashx?id=20a56c2e-6c61-4271-84da-b250e7e1ddcb

 

 

 

Sorry could you please explain for me?

I didn’t understand. Are we still waiting for the report or it was the respond and inquiry now is closed?

What was the answer for 143 visa proceeding which is now 6 years more?

[AJM22]

47 minutes ago, Sahba said:

Sorry could you please explain for me?

I didn’t understand. Are we still waiting for the report or it was the respond and inquiry now is closed?

What was the answer for 143 visa proceeding which is now 6 years more?

Submissions from the public and other organisations ended in April 2021 and the report is due out on 10 August 2021.

 

Check the link at this date.

 

https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Senate/Legal_and_Constitutional_Affairs/FamilyandPartnerVisas

[Sahba]

It seems we should wait until 25 Nov:

“On 3 August 2021 the committee's reporting date was extended to 25 November 2021.”

[Carole]

We have just received our queue letter from Home Affairs. We applied for our 143 visa in July 2018. Any idea how long the queue is time wise? Do we just sit and wait for further communication from Home Affairs before getting our finances ready to pay for the visa and also begin setting our plans in motion to exit SA or is it advisable to start our exit strategy now? We’d really appreciate some thoughts on this - it’s been a very long wait. We’d like to be encouraged by the letter from Home Affairs but not sure of our next move. 😊 Many thanks, Carole 

[AJM22]

6 hours ago, Carole said:

We have just received our queue letter from Home Affairs. We applied for our 143 visa in July 2018. Any idea how long the queue is time wise? Do we just sit and wait for further communication from Home Affairs before getting our finances ready to pay for the visa and also begin setting our plans in motion to exit SA or is it advisable to start our exit strategy now? We’d really appreciate some thoughts on this - it’s been a very long wait. We’d like to be encouraged by the letter from Home Affairs but not sure of our next move. 😊 Many thanks, Carole 

 

Hi Carole

 

Based on your 143 CPV application made in July 2018, current annual CPV Cap of 3600 places/annum and current queue I would estimate that it will at least another 6.5-8.5 years before your application is processed/approved.  It all depends on rejection rates and whether the annual CPC cap is fulfilled each year which has not been the case since migration 2016/2017. The annual CPV cap has been lowered considerably during 2020/2021 and 2021/2022 migration years and is less than half of what it used to be.

 

As June 2021 CPV applications with a date  up to May 2016 have been released from the queue for final processing and there has been no change from June 2020.

 

https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/getting-a-visa/visa-processing-times/family-visa-processing-priorities/parent-visas-queue-release-dates

 

 

As of October 2020  55620 CPV applications were in the pipeline/queue to be released for processing covering the period Jun 2016 to September 2020.

The cumulative number of CPV applications in the queue end of July 2018 yet to be released for processing is 32035 against the current annual cap of 3600 places. 

The table below shows estimate total processing time from CPV application date assuming different rejection rates based on the current annual cap of 3600 places.  

The only way this will change is if the Australian Government change legislation to clear the very large backlog and queue of CPV applications and increase the annual cap considerably as they have done over the past two migration years for partner visas.

I would pass this information onto your migration agent for them to comment on as it may be too early to plan your exit strategy right now and move into temporary accommodation as many people have done assuming that there CPV143 applications would be approved within 4 years.  This is no longer the case with large numbers of applications in the queue and the reduced annual CPV cap.

For CPV applications made in September 2020 and the current annual cap of 3600 places it is estimated that it will take between 12.5 years to 14.5 years for these applications to be processed and approved from the date of application depending on rejection levels.

 

The 143 CPV used to be processed in under 2 years however this was when applications outstanding in the queue were around 10000 to 12000 with an annual cap of 7500 CPV places. It is no longer a guaranteed fast track route in Australia for permanent residency as it was originally intended with the large fee especially for two parents.  The processing time has increased year on year due to the increased number of applicants coupled with the reduction in annual cap.

 

Sorry it is not better news but it is better to have a realistic idea about the possible timescale based on the current situation.

 

There’s currently a senate enquiry going on into the problems to do with the queue for family and parent visas and the outcome of this was originally meant to be made available  10th August 2021 but has now been delayed until 25th November 2021 probably due to Covid-19 issues in Australia.

 

https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Senate/Legal_and_Constitutional_Affairs/FamilyandPartnerVisas

 

Estimated processing time versus application date for Contributory Parent Visas based on outstanding queue 30th October 2020 and annual cap of 3600 CPC places

 

Annual Parent Visa Cap Level v Parent Visas Granted. CPV and NCPV Queue levels at end of each migration year.  Parent Visa Refusal Rate v Migration Year.

 

Family Stream Visa Places v Migration Year.  Parent Visa annual Cap levels v Migration Year. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Carole]

Thanks so much for this info. What a huge disappointment the 143 Visa has turned out to be 😟 This journey is an emotional rollercoaster! We’ll just have to sit tight now and wait to see what the outcome of the meeting will be in November.  Obviously, the government have a huge (self created) problem that goes back further than Covid. There does seem to be a pattern of visa times getting out of control. It’s a great pity because people’s lives are being turned upside down with this never ending wait.

[Elna57]

@Carole

The wait is so hard! And now, with Covid, it is almost impossible to visit one's children whilst waiting.

Wish there was something I could say or do to make it better. 

In the meantime, I think it is sensible to, at the very least, expect a 5+ years wait.

Use this time to enjoy the company of your family and close friends as much as you can. It is very hard to make the same kind of friends over here and you will miss them dearly. 

Good luck to everyone in the queue. My thoughts are always with you because I still remember what it felt like.

 

 

 

 

[Elna57]

On 7/14/2021 at 1:26 PM, RadagastBrown said:

I am applying for 143 visas for my parents in law and was hoping someone who did their own application forms could assist with a simple question re which forms are required. My wife (Australian citizen) is the sponsor and both parents are applying for 143s.

1) Do both parents need to complete Form 47PA Application for Parent to Migrate or only mum as the "primary" applicant?

2) Do both parents need to complete Form 47A Details of a Child or Dependent Family Member? Would this only be dad who is required to complete this form as mum has already put her details on a 47PA? It says every member of the family unit so I figured maybe they both need to complete this form?

3) Does my wife (the sponsor) need to complete a Form 47A also given she is technically a member of the family unit or is this not required because she has filled out a Form 40 Sponsorship for Migration to Australia?

We want to make sure we don't make a silly mistake like leaving out one of the forms for a $100,000 application and as these are the only issues I have it is not worth paying thousands extra for a migration agent.

Thank you very much to anyone who has applied and is able to help!

The forms 47 PA and 47A are only for the family members wanting to apply for the visa. So, yes, one for the main applicant and the other for the 'dependent'. 

[Elna57]

@RadagastBrown I will go through our old documents tomorrow and double check.

 

[Elna57]

@RadagastBrownI found this on an older thread.

You need only complete Form 47A if you have a "dependant child or family member over 18 years old", whether or not that person is emigrating with you, or not.

Note this excludes your "Partner", or any children under 18 years old, whose details are included in the main application (i.e. Form 47PA)

 

[AJM22]

On 8/14/2021 at 6:09 AM, Carole said:

Thanks so much for this info. What a huge disappointment the 143 Visa has turned out to be 😟 This journey is an emotional rollercoaster! We’ll just have to sit tight now and wait to see what the outcome of the meeting will be in November.  Obviously, the government have a huge (self created) problem that goes back further than Covid. There does seem to be a pattern of visa times getting out of control. It’s a great pity because people’s lives are being turned upside down with this never ending wait.

 

Hi Carole - I understand how disappointing it must be for you especially as when applying for the 143 Visa you were under the impression that it would be a fast track route for permanent residency into Australia in exchange for the large fee.

The government have created a huge (self created problem) that has nothing to do with Covid-19 and the disappointing thing is that they are unable to give realistic ideas of timescales based on the outstanding queue at any point in time when people are making their applications to allow them to be be able to make decisions and plan their lives accordingly whilst the application is being processed.

 

I hope the outcome of the Senate Enquiry now to be published in November brings good news but I suspect it will not.

 

The current backlog is partly due to recommendations made in the Australian Productivity Review of  April 2016.

 

https://www.pc.gov.au/inquiries/completed/migrant-intake/report/migrant-intake-report.pdf

 

The document provide an interesting insight into recommended policy   (In relation to Family reunion see pages 469 to 485)

 

From this document it appears that permanent visas for parents will be reduced significantly/discouraged in the future due to modelled lifetime costs per individual that will be incurred by the Australian taxpayer during their lifetime after a permanent visa has been granted.  In this report it suggests based on financial modelling that $335000 to $410000 costs are incurred by the taxpayer over the lifetime of every permanent parent visa granted and that the 143 visa cost of $47295 (now $47825) is heavily subsidised and only covers a fraction of this lifetime cost.

 

It would  however be interesting to be able to see the cost breakdown by category per individual from any modelling to better understand how the $335000 to $410000 cumulated lifetime fiscal cost per individual is apportioned as it probably does not assume that many parents that may be relocating to Australia may already have sufficient assets accumulated in their original country of origin such as property, savings and pensions which will be used to live on when relocating to Australia.

 

In this document the following recommendations were made to Australian Government 

 

Two of the recommended measures from this review have already been implemented in the form of the 870 visa (flexible temporary parent visa) and reduction in the annual cap for contributory parent visas (reduced from 7175 places in 2018/2019 migration year to the current level of 3600 places in 2020/2021 and 2021/2022 migration years).

It is possible that the shortfall in granted parents visas in the four migration year periods from 1st July 2016 to 30th June 2020 against the available cap is deliberate in response to recommendations made in this report until the annual cap was officially lowered to 3600 CPV places in 2020/2021.  In  previous migration years the annual cap in any migration year was always fulfilled with granted parent visas.

 

Within the document on page 483 one of the recommendations is to substantially increase the charge for Contributory Parent Visas fee levels  initially by 100% by doubling the fee.  This recommendation has not happened yet.