Our surprise Sydney journey

[NicoletteJ]

On 10/11/2016 at 11:19 AM, Tntaglia said:

Really loved reading your journal @Tntaglia - I wanted to ask where you find out how many invites have been issued for a specific occupation. You wrote earlier, "My occupation is on the skills list and last time I checked only 24 of max 1000 invites had been issued." I'd greatly appreciate this information. You'll love Sydney (and Australia!). I had my first visit this year which has sparked my interest in moving there

[Tntaglia]

I found it here: 

https://www.border.gov.au/Busi/visas-and-migration/employing-and-sponsoring-workers/skillselect

Click on the "occupation ceilings" tab.

[NicoletteJ]

Thanks. Phew.. I'm safe!

[RedPanda]

I'm delighted to hear that things are moving along so nicely for you. Keep it up!  

[Tntaglia]

We told the kids this weekend. I was super nervous beforehand; my 10 year old can get very anxious and she is super attached to family, so I expected it to be a very hard conversation with loads of discussions of why it's probably a good thing. BIG SURPRISE - both kids are super excited, they want to know if we can move immediately. I cannot tell you how relieved I am. They obviously will still go through ups and downs about the news, the oldest one told her best friend who then proceeded to cry for hours (her mom told me) so there will be hard times still... but in principle now they know, and they want to go. This is amazing.

[Dora]

Glad it went well. It really takes a load off if the kids are also excited.

[RedPanda]

 

[Tntaglia]

Wow, it's been months and months since I've been on here. Things quieted down a bit at work in terms of the plans for the move to Oz and I absolutely hate limbo, so eventually had to stop checking this site daily as it made the limbo harder. Long story short, looks like we're back on track for the move, still nothing definite but I had two very good conversations with the executives on the South African and Australian sides of our business in the last 2 working days and everything is looking up. I hope timeline-wise to be able to make the move by end of the year, which makes things easier for the kids, and it looks like work will support me in making that happen. So now I need to get my ducks in a row quickly so we can get the 189 application in, and then hopefully have 6-8 months to sell the house and wrap up all the other things. Crazy.

[Tntaglia]

So - change of plans. We've spoken to a few lawyers now and we're going to go for the 186 visa rather than the 189. It's my preference actually since it forces us to have a signed employment contract before we lodge - and so far I've been totally kept in the dark about salary etc. So the goal now is to negotiate the contract over the next couple of weeks and then hopefully lodge the application by June. We are probably out of time for getting any of the PR visas by December anyway, but if we are on track and don't have it yet by October-ish we'll apply for the new 457 equivalent and go over on that, and then upgrade to the PR visa as soon as that comes through.

 

Of course nothing is officially decided yet - limboland still. But the CEOs of the 3 companies (my current employer, the Australian company and the joint venture company) are all meeting on a breakaway over the next 2 days to decide on "investment and opportunities" and so there's a decent chance that we'll have an official go-ahead by Friday. I would LOVE for this to be officially "real".

 

In the meantime we're finishing up renovating bathrooms in our house, then we'll get some painting done and put the house on the market hopefully by August/September. We have a great relationship with the agent who sold us the house 9 years ago, so we're going to meet with her pretty soon to talk about the right time to go to market etc. We should be ready to go to market earlier (June, probably) but if the market is likely to be quick right now we also don't want to have to move on selling furniture etc. sooner than we're ready.

 

I'm holding my breath for good news this week, and in the meantime getting really excited. I met with my likely new boss on Monday and he seems to think it's pretty much a done deal - wants to know where in Sydney we would like to live and so on. But I need it to be official, especially I need to have a contract signed so that we know we can afford to live in Sydney!

 

 

[Tntaglia]

Finally, finally, FINALLY an official decision! We're moving to Australia! 

Now to get the contract signed, visa application through etc. But it's pretty much as official as it's gonna be. I'm so excited I can't sit still!

[Husky]

Great news @Tntaglia

Having a confirmed job decreases much of the risk. Hope your next steps go smoothly. 

[RedPanda]

    Yay!!!

Celebrations are in order, go out for dinner somewhere nice. (before you get here and have a heart attack over the price of restaurant food!  )

[Tntaglia]

This is the big update: I have an employment contract! This is about as official as it's going to get, I guess - barring visa issues. Received this morning.

 

I must say I have massively mixed feelings. I'm still processing so excuse my rambling! Great to have the contract. I think officially it's a really good salary but it's not much more than I'm earning in SA and I'm very worried about the difference in cost of living. I was hoping for about 15% more. I have to get my mind around this. If my husband finds a job we'll be fine, but I can't assume that he will. So I'm going to have to negotiate salary which is HARD for me (only done it once before in my life...) and I have no idea of how negotiable this is. Aaaargh.

But on the other hand I'm thrilled to have an official document that says I can work in Australia. If I sign it right now, I have employment! 

[Husky]

Congratulations  @Tntaglia

Think mixed feelings are very normal. Research shows that men are far more comfortable negotiating salaries than women are. Probably a side effect of us being raised to be *nice girls*. I believe that negotiating is standard practice in Oz, so that should put your mind a little at ease. Perhaps just start with a simple question of "are you open to negotiation on this". Hope all goes well.

[AFreshStart]

On 2017/07/07 at 7:04 PM, Tntaglia said:

This is the big update: I have an employment contract! This is about as official as it's going to get, I guess - barring visa issues. Received this morning.

 

I must say I have massively mixed feelings. I'm still processing so excuse my rambling! Great to have the contract. I think officially it's a really good salary but it's not much more than I'm earning in SA and I'm very worried about the difference in cost of living. I was hoping for about 15% more. I have to get my mind around this. If my husband finds a job we'll be fine, but I can't assume that he will. So I'm going to have to negotiate salary which is HARD for me (only done it once before in my life...) and I have no idea of how negotiable this is. Aaaargh.

But on the other hand I'm thrilled to have an official document that says I can work in Australia. If I sign it right now, I have employment! 

 

 

@Tntaglia,

 

Congrats on the offer! I'm a however a little concerned for you sharing that the you're not earning much more than you do in SA, is that a straight $ to ZAR equivalent? If so I'd be concerned, particularly if you want to live in Sydney. Where are the offices based? The cost of living is MUCH higher here, one of the highest in the world. The national household income is $75k a year, currently on that, as a family, you'd not be able to afford to live within an hour of the City via public transport. I have shared our budget in the past, we live frugally, having the added expense of one of our children in a non-profit daycare 5-days a week, but would still struggle to get by as a family of 4 in the City on a household income under $100k a year, even that would be tight.

 

Cheers

 

Matt

[Duggen]

HI Tntaglia,

 

Congrats on the offer! I recently moved to Melbourne with the company I work for. I have found (from my limited interactions with fellow recent migrants) that salaries are roughly 1.7-1.8x higher in Australia than South Africa when you convert directly. This also make sense cause pretty much everything bar alcohol is 1.7-1.8x more expensive when converted directly.

 

Just to echo AFreshStart, I would just double check on the relative cost of living and see if that salary will be sufficient. Perhaps you can also check a couple of other resources to see comparative salary bands.

 

Just to caveat my views on salaries are from a very small sample set and based on fairly junior employees

[Tntaglia]

Thanks guys. You're saying exactly what I'm worrying about. Having said that, I'm an actuary and the offer is quite a bit above $100k per year so I think we'll survive but I want to more than survive, KWIM?

 

My plan at the moment is to first take it up with my current employer, since the move was their idea. I'll put all the numbers together and suggest a better number and we'll take it from there. I'm nervous but I know I have a good case. It's just that it feels unlikely that an employer will offer X and eventually put a salary of 50% more on the table, but I'm going to have to try. Especially since it has such a long term impact on me and my family. Ugh. Have I mentioned that I hate negotiating salary? 

[Rhazo32]

2 hours ago, Duggen said:

I have found (from my limited interactions with fellow recent migrants) that salaries are roughly 1.7-1.8x higher in Australia than South Africa when you convert directly. This also make sense cause pretty much everything bar alcohol is 1.7-1.8x more expensive when converted directly.

 

Hi

 

I would be keen to find out how this conversion translates for the mid to upper end of the SA salary spectrum (R900k to R1.5m).  My 'simple' understanding of Australia is that the high minimum wage is too ensure everyone has a 'living wage', however it also means there are smaller differences between professions as you would have in SA. i know there are a few exceptions to this, but i suspect it may mean that a very high SA salary as a professional (Actuary engineer etc) may not necessarily translate to 1.8X what you get paid in Australia.

 

When I met with a few Australian recruiters, they indicated my Salary would be in the range of 10% or so above my current SA one. I am also in the Actuarial space, so it may actually be standard.  Would love to hear others experiences too.

[Duggen]

15 hours ago, Rhazo32 said:

 

Hi

 

I would be keen to find out how this conversion translates for the mid to upper end of the SA salary spectrum (R900k to R1.5m).  My 'simple' understanding of Australia is that the high minimum wage is too ensure everyone has a 'living wage', however it also means there are smaller differences between professions as you would have in SA. i know there are a few exceptions to this, but i suspect it may mean that a very high SA salary as a professional (Actuary engineer etc) may not necessarily translate to 1.8X what you get paid in Australia.

 

When I met with a few Australian recruiters, they indicated my Salary would be in the range of 10% or so above my current SA one. I am also in the Actuarial space, so it may actually be standard.  Would love to hear others experiences too.

 

Hi Rhazo,

 

I work in Investment banking for a large global bank. I am however fairly junior but would currently just fit into your band. My salary is now 1.7x more than the equivalent I would get in South Africa. When I moved here it was 1.8x my salary in South Africa (this was below your band though).

 

The majority of people I know are professionals (IT, management consulting and banking) and all have had roughly the same experience. Just as a caveat once again I do not know that many people here so its a very small sample set. The people I know would probably have been earning around the 700K-1m in South Africa.

[Rhazo32]

Thank you Duggen.  That is a huge relief.  It was honestly one of my bigger worries. I probably need to speak to more recruiters then to get a fairer picture.  

[Duggen]

No worries, hopefully this is the case for you two and I am not proved to be completely wrong!

[ShaunR]

Just from our experience and what it's worth, my wife is a CA and I am a senior PM in IT. We both work for very reputable companies, one global and the other one a retail giant in Aus.

 

In SA an actuary/CA/Engineer qualification/occupation is rated very high and you get paid for it, in Aus or any 1st world country the salary gaps are a lot smaller between occupations.

 

CA's and Actuaries I know is in the region of $150 000 - $200 000 per annum, but here if you an good IT PM, Program Manager or Java Developer you can easily earn $160 000 or more.

 

Just my 20c

Edited July 13, 2017 by ShaunR

[SimpleSimon]

Wow, walking into a job in Australia straight off the plane and earning $150 - $200K as an IT program manager, CA or Actuary. I would jump at that.

My experience is that people with those sorts of qualifications earn 1/2 of that to start and build up to those salaries after ~ 10 years Australian experience and if they are very good at what they do.

I'd be interested to hear other experiences, am I completely out of touch?

[Duggen]

I don't think there is a one size fits all answer to this.

 

I have read on this forum that it is next to impossible to get a job from South Africa, yet of the people I know who have moved here all but one moved across with jobs lined up. The professionals I know (IT, investment banking and management consulting) who would've been earning more than sort of 700k in South Africa all seem to be earning well over 100k here. This is a guess though, I haven't explicitly asked anyone what they earn but rather have an idea on what they budget for things

 

Once again I really don't know too many people here though so my sample set isn't the largest.

[Tiermelk]

3 hours ago, Duggen said:

I don't think there is a one size fits all answer to this.

 

I`m a senior IT infrastructure engineer and my first job in Australia was contract earning around $120k, which was about 3.5x the salary of a similar job in SA and 2.5x the management salary I earned in SA. 

I`m still not back in management but current earning 2.7x my SA salary in a permanent role (Which I must admit is in the higher bracket for my role).  

 

My wife is back at a similar level she was in SA earning 3.5x as much (also in the IT space). 

 

Even though I managed to work myself into a management role in SA my type of roles earning ability was severely restricted by BEE. From my experience you need to move roles to get decent salary increases or be in a role where you can directly affect the bottom line.  In Australia it`s really up to yourself, and mostly you`ll get a fair go.